Solas didn't showed any interest even if he knew about it(because he watched from the fade all the blight and he saw that a GW did not died)he did not cared at all he could have easly put the child into stone and absorb his soul.
I do know one thing, Solas does not like us Wardens killing the AD's. He said it might unleash something far worse and that we cannot stop the Blight completely. I'm strongly leaning to him knowing the true creation of the Blight and I think it all started with the elves uncovering something that terrified them and he made them forget.
I don't see the survival of the individual as worthy of the security of the planet you had no reassurances whatsoever that the thing wouldn't have attracted others legions of darkspawn to the surface.On the other hand you had those other two in DAO to use as meat-shield and if Bioware didn't write that stupid death even Riordan.
Well in theory both Solas,Aurelian and Morrigan already went in exile from the world in the fade and the eluvians.
They should have remained there it's a fitting place for them given how much asocial they are.
Three poor deluded misanthropes that's what i think Flemeth,Solas and Morrigan are their plans are only security risk for everyone and i'm unsure why there is not a bounty on them
If my primary objective was the survival(it wasn't since it's fictional i don't see it's meaning)a fortiori i would have refused the ritual because it's preferable to send someone else rather than gamble me directly while i'm attacking the critter in the head just because a witch of the wilds told me to trust an untested spell.
i'm unsure why there is not a bounty on them
I'm sure there will be a bounty on Solas in DA4 as for Morrigan she already has one from what i heard there are templars all over the world who offer a great reward for her... an apostate life is a tough life.
That is ultimately the issue at hand. If you roleplay and do not metagame, then there is a clear case to be made for the Warden refusing the Dark Ritual because the Warden has no idea of what will happen 10 years down the line. However, we the player do so the decision to perform or refuse the Dark Ritual is, to me at least, roleplaying vs rollplaying.
I roleplay and therefore refuse to perform the Dark Ritual.
Firstly, at that point in DAO, Morrigan has most definitely not demonstrated any proof of exceptional mothering skills, all we have is her word. At that point in DAO, we know that she lacks empathy and does not care much for those that are weaker than her to the point of not having a problem with selling them off to slavery or condoning their destruction. We also will learn that she only decided to act nice to the Warden to make them more pliable to agreeing to the Dark Ritual.
Secondly, she refuses to let the Warden to even see the child (this changed in Witch Hunt but we are roleplaying here, not rollplaying) and this is tantamount to sperm jacking (though I am not sure Thedas knows about sperms and ovum, so it would be called seed jacking or something).
Thirdly, all the Warden has learned up to that point is that the Old Gods are bad news. Ancient Tevinters screwed up so much because of these Old Gods.
Fourthly, using an innocent child as a tool is cruel, more so if you choose to stuff him with the soul of an ancient being that he did not ask for.
PhroXenGold, Secret Rare et German Soldier aiment ceci
The Archdemon isn't killed the day after the ritual but some weeks later.
Anyway Morrigan's reassurances or not i see her only as an enemy and a dangerous apostate which is pretty much the same view the majority of persons have about her and Flemeth in the setting, two misanthropes that are unworthy of any trust.
I would have never allowed her to save an archdemon soul after all the blood i spilled to reach it.
I've only played DAO twice, on my third round now, but I remember the Warden was at Arl Eamons place. And we needed to get to Denerim in like 3 days to meet the Darkspawn forces. That is the only amount of time referenced. Then we arrive, Alistair makes his big speech, we all attack. We push through the gates. We split up, say our goodbyes, and then clear one or both places in Denerim before we get the Riordan death scene. Then it's up a tower with a wave at Sandal and it's Archdemon time.
We can head cannon that it took weeks to bring portions of the overrun city under control, I suppose, but 3 days were all that was mentioned. So, the fetus is 3-5 days olds, not weeks old. It depends on your attitude towards what constitutes a life, but that sort of talk can blow out of control.
I'm okay with the dark ritual from the vantage point of it being a magically tethered soul to a bundle of cells. I see no over riding if souls until the pregnancy is further along.
That is ultimately the issue at hand. If you roleplay and do not metagame, then there is a clear case to be made for the Warden refusing the Dark Ritual because the Warden has no idea of what will happen 10 years down the line. However, we the player do so the decision to perform or refuse the Dark Ritual is, to me at least, roleplaying vs rollplaying.
I roleplay and therefore refuse to perform the Dark Ritual.
Firstly, at that point in DAO, Morrigan has most definitely not demonstrated any proof of exceptional mothering skills, all we have is her word. At that point in DAO, we know that she lacks empathy and does not care much for those that are weaker than her to the point of not having a problem with selling them off to slavery or condoning their destruction. We also will learn that she only decided to act nice to the Warden to make them more pliable to agreeing to the Dark Ritual.
Secondly, she refuses to let the Warden to even see the child (this changed in Witch Hunt but we are roleplaying here, not rollplaying) and this is tantamount to sperm jacking (though I am not sure Thedas knows about sperms and ovum, so it would be called seed jacking or something).
Thirdly, all the Warden has learned up to that point is that the Old Gods are bad news. Ancient Tevinters screwed up so much because of these Old Gods.
Fourthly, using an innocent child as a tool is cruel, more so if you choose to stuff him with the soul of an ancient being that he did not ask for.
I tend to gravitate toward characters that are more self-serving, and willing to take certain risks. My Warden was an assassin that gladly killed people for money, didn't hesitate to cut off Loghain's head out of raw hatred for his affiliation with Howe and certainly didn't want to be a Warden, didn't care about their rules, and after seeing all the horrors the underside of Thedas has to offer, couldn't give a nug's left testicle about transferring some spirit thing into Alistair's bastard seed (my Warden is female so has no stake in whether or not thr child is ever seen again).
That is ultimately the issue at hand. If you roleplay and do not metagame, then there is a clear case to be made for the Warden refusing the Dark Ritual because the Warden has no idea of what will happen 10 years down the line. However, we the player do so the decision to perform or refuse the Dark Ritual is, to me at least, roleplaying vs rollplaying.
I roleplay and therefore refuse to perform the Dark Ritual.
Firstly, at that point in DAO, Morrigan has most definitely not demonstrated any proof of exceptional mothering skills, all we have is her word. At that point in DAO, we know that she lacks empathy and does not care much for those that are weaker than her to the point of not having a problem with selling them off to slavery or condoning their destruction. We also will learn that she only decided to act nice to the Warden to make them more pliable to agreeing to the Dark Ritual.
Secondly, she refuses to let the Warden to even see the child (this changed in Witch Hunt but we are roleplaying here, not rollplaying) and this is tantamount to sperm jacking (though I am not sure Thedas knows about sperms and ovum, so it would be called seed jacking or something).
Thirdly, all the Warden has learned up to that point is that the Old Gods are bad news. Ancient Tevinters screwed up so much because of these Old Gods.
Fourthly, using an innocent child as a tool is cruel, more so if you choose to stuff him with the soul of an ancient being that he did not ask for.
All these reasons led me to believe that this ritual was not an option in DAO.
DAI solidified my previous thoughts with all these Evanuris running around to suck power to change the world so of course i'm not willing to give it to them.
Of course there is the matter of the child
I saw both versions and the OGB(sorry if someone is offended) seem to be a retarded who live among the clouds like demon Connor.
I saw both versions and the OGB(sorry if someone is offended) seem to be a retarded who live among the clouds like demon Connor.
It may be that an human mind is not particularly suited to contain the memories of an Archdemon/old god just like they are not very fitting to contain spirits.
I would actually make the case that Human Kieran > OGB Kieran, especially for a Warden who romances Morrigan.
1) Initially, Morrigan is raised by and abused by Flemeth. Morrigan is taught to view the world in very narrow terms of power and survival.
2) Later on, Flemeth instructs Morrigan that the events of DAO will take place due to her gift of foresight and then teaches the Dark Ritual to Morrigan.
3) Accordingly, Flemeth shapeshifts and rescues two Warden recruits with the ultimate goal of obtaining Urthemiel's soul. Morrigan is tasked to cozy up to either Wardens in order to fulfill this goal.
4) During their travels, Hero of Ferelden and Morrigan develop a sexual interest in one another and enter into a relationship of sorts. Morrigan finds herself falling in love for this man but all this is both new to her and antithetical to what Flemeth taught her.
5) Consequently, Morrigan and the Warden enter into a relationship for a while and she stops having sex with the Hero of Ferelden sometime after he helps her with her personal quest concerning Flemeth.
6) At the same time, Morrigan tries to get the Hero of Ferelden to end the relationship but he refuses, stating that love is not a weakness.
7) Towards the end, Morrigan springs the Dark Ritual offer to the Hero of Ferelden. He refuses for the reasons I stated above and Morrigan leaves him.
8) The Hero of Ferelden did not die and it was in fact, Loghain Mac Tir who sacrificed his life to kill the Archdemon.
9) Morrigan is pregnant with a human baby that is the result of her sexual relationship with the Hero of Ferelden.
10) Sometime after the end of the Fifth Blight and before Witch Hunt, human Kieran is born. A child conceived not through blood magic or dark rituals or pragmatic necessities, but one conceived by passion and love.
11) Morrigan grows to care for the human child, an ordinary Kieran. She slowly realizes that she loves her baby and that love is truly not a weakness, that life is not all about being a survivalist.
12) Morrigan and Hero of Ferelden cross paths during the events of Witch Hunt. The Hero of Ferelden has forgiven Morrigan for running out on him. Time is a great forgiveness tool and 2 years has passed. Both of them enter the Eluvian into the Crossroads where they raise human Kieran together.
Later on in Inquisition, we see that Morrigan has truly grown to care for human Kieran and even admitted that if she does anything right by human Kieran, it will be to ensure she does as little damage as possible to him. She also heaps praises for the Hero of Ferelden for being a good father and crediting human Kieran's remarkable-ness to him.
Contrast this with a Morrigan who did get to have OGB Kieran. True, she loves Kieran but she does still treat him like a tool:- "Kieran had a destiny, etc..." and she appears to have learned very little about how awful it is to put an Old God soul into an innocent child.
Here is video evidence. Human Kieran is not creepy and Morrigan actually grows a lot more as a person being a mother to him. Seriously, Human Kieran is adorable :-
So yeah, even if you romance Morrigan, rejecting the Dark Ritual + human Kieran is the way to go. In fact, the Morrigan romance arc where you reject the Dark Ritual and have human Kieran is a lot like Merrill's rivalry romance, Isabela's rivalry romance. Your protagonist stood firm in his decisions for ethical reasons, their love interest grows as a person and it makes for a better story.
I would actually make the case that Human Kieran > OGB Kieran, especially for a Warden who romances Morrigan.
1) Initially, Morrigan is raised by and abused by Flemeth. Morrigan is taught to view the world in very narrow terms of power and survival.
2) Later on, Flemeth instructs Morrigan that the events of DAO will take place due to her gift of foresight and then teaches the Dark Ritual to Morrigan.
3) Accordingly, Flemeth shapeshifts and rescues two Warden recruits with the ultimate goal of obtaining Urthemiel's soul. Morrigan is tasked to cozy up to either Wardens in order to fulfill this goal.
4) During their travels, Hero of Ferelden and Morrigan develop a sexual interest in one another and enter into a relationship of sorts. Morrigan finds herself falling in love for this man but all this is both new to her and antithetical to what Flemeth taught her.
5) Consequently, Morrigan and the Warden enter into a relationship for a while and she stops having sex with the Hero of Ferelden sometime after he helps her with her personal quest concerning Flemeth.
6) At the same time, Morrigan tries to get the Hero of Ferelden to end the relationship but he refuses, stating that love is not a weakness.
7) Towards the end, Morrigan springs the Dark Ritual offer to the Hero of Ferelden. He refuses for the reasons I stated above and Morrigan leaves him.
8) The Hero of Ferelden did not die and it was in fact, Loghain Mac Tir who sacrificed his life to kill the Archdemon.
9) Morrigan is pregnant with a human baby that is the result of her sexual relationship with the Hero of Ferelden.
10) Sometime after the end of the Fifth Blight and before Witch Hunt, human Kieran is born. A child conceived not through blood magic or dark rituals or pragmatic necessities, but one conceived by passion and love.
11) Morrigan grows to care for the human child, an ordinary Kieran. She slowly realizes that she loves her baby and that love is truly not a weakness, that life is not all about being a survivalist.
12) Morrigan and Hero of Ferelden cross paths during the events of Witch Hunt. The Hero of Ferelden has forgiven Morrigan for running out on him. Time is a great forgiveness tool and 2 years has passed. Both of them enter the Eluvian into the Crossroads where they raise human Kieran together.
Later on in Inquisition, we see that Morrigan has truly grown to care for human Kieran and even admitted that if she does anything right by human Kieran, it will be to ensure she does as little damage as possible to him. She also heaps praises for the Hero of Ferelden for being a good father and crediting human Kieran's remarkable-ness to him.
Contrast this with a Morrigan who did get to have OGB Kieran. True, she loves Kieran but she does still treat him like a tool:- "Kieran had a destiny, etc..." and she appears to have learned very little about how awful it is to put an Old God soul into an innocent child.
Here is video evidence. Human Kieran is not creepy and Morrigan actually grows a lot more as a person being a mother to him. Seriously, Human Kieran is adorable :-
So yeah, even if you romance Morrigan, rejecting the Dark Ritual + human Kieran is the way to go. In fact, the Morrigan romance arc where you reject the Dark Ritual and have human Kieran is a lot like Merrill's rivalry romance, Isabela's rivalry romance. Your protagonist stood firm in his decisions for ethical reasons, their love interest grows as a person and it makes for a better story.
Agree in everything but in DAI she loves OGB Kieran the same as human Kieran. She actually seems relieved even if she said that he had a destiny. Is in WH when she still think of OGB Kieran as a tool. But yes, human Kieran is perfect for the romance
I have not saw the old god Keiran scary... (maybe because I was weird too), and yes, Morrigan loves his old god child same as the human. The child has the same human emotions, for example he misses his father. It seemed to me such as a child: he was curious and talkative.
I only have one romance with Morrigan, for old god baby, and my warden follow her though the Eluvian:.
Spoiler
I see, that this is a morally wrong decision, but still seems interest (I hope, his story will continue...).
I still think that this is a game. Of course, I also have feelings about this: I do not like the Templar side, for example, and I do not destroy the elf clan with the werewolves, and I do not destroy Merrill's clan, no matter my Hawke help restore the Eluvian or not. I gladly to debate these, but do not think it is morally wrong for someone who chooses them.
All that said, I think I still will do the DR by the end of my current DAO run.
It is the only way to get a few things I want: To survive without damaging the friendship with Alistair and have him show up as a Grey Warden in the other games.
And I must confess that Morrigan's argument about being overshadowed does reach me. It shouldn't, but it does.
What kind of protagonist doesn't finish off his own enemy? Unless it was mercy, that is.
Of course, one might argue that the HoF helped take the beast down. But as far as history is concerned, it was Loghain that really defeated the archdemon.
I decided it would be better to give this issue its own thread because every discussion about the Dark Ritual focuses mainly on other arguments, like whether it is risky, irresponsible or selfish to do it.
Instead, I'd like to speak strictly about Kieran. The question being raised is: Is it right to allow him to be altered this way?
That is, to agree to participate in a ritual where a baby is possessed by another being.
We've seen what happens when two souls share the same body: They merge until it is hard to tell where one ends and the other begins.
As a side effect, there is a partial loss of the original identity. While the host doesn't completely forget about the person s/he once was, the foreign being is the dominant one.
This is what happened to Anders/Justice and Flemeth/Mythal. And mind you, at least they had the chance to decide whether they wanted to become a vessel.
A baby has no personality. It is shaped by those who raise it. Give me a baby and I could raise to believe rape and murder is the best thing in the world. Or I could teach it that religious zealotry is awesome. I could teach him to hate cheese or meat, and love veggies and so on. Its a blank slate. So no, I dont think it is morally bad to do it. In fact, I would argue it is morally bad not to do it. The Old Gods deserve another chance to live and teach and influence the world. Especially when the "Maker" is silent. As Morrigan said, some things are worth preserving.
A baby has no personality. It is shaped by those who raise it. Give me a baby and I could raise to believe rape and murder is the best thing in the world. Or I could teach it that religious zealotry is awesome. I could teach him to hate cheese or meat, and love veggies and so on. Its a blank slate. So no, I dont think it is morally bad to do it. In fact, I would argue it is morally bad not to do it. The Old Gods deserve another chance to live and teach and influence the world. Especially when the "Maker" is silent. As Morrigan said, some things are worth preserving.
Babies grow up. One day, Kieran will look back and realize that he was used as a lab rat by his own mother.
And his father agreed to let that happen because he was afraid of dying.
Babies grow up. One day, Kieran will look back and realize that he was used as a lab rat by his own mother.
And his father agreed to let that happen because he was afraid of dying.
I never agreed to it because I feared my character would die. The deciding point for me was the second chance, the preservation of an old God.
Without it I wouldn't do it.
And he is far from a labratm he is not being experimented on. He is sharing his body with a God giving him another chance at life. He had no self to speak of when it happened.
Of course, one might argue that the HoF helped take the beast down. But as far as history is concerned, it was Loghain that really defeated the archdemon.
Loghain did nothing more but to take a shot over a dying critter.
It was Loghain who builded the army to reach the Archdemon or who damaged it to the point where it was defeated?No
In fact i would argue that the true final blow is the cinematic one who put on the floor the Archdemon not the one who killed it.
In fact, I would argue it is morally bad not to do it. The Old Gods deserve another chance to live and teach and influence the world. Especially when the "Maker" is silent. As Morrigan said, some things are worth preserving.
Homicidal beasts that goes on a rampage in the world and that enslaved people are worth preserving because?
And I must confess that Morrigan's argument about being overshadowed does reach me. It shouldn't, but it does.
In all honesty i don't see the strength of the temptation simply because i know how the people's minds work
It's like Gharael said by himself they call you Hero until the blight is over then they forget about it and about you and the order until the next one.
Gharael is mentioned in DAO only because there is a blight while the others AD killers are unknown for majority of people(even players)
Not to mention that this Archdemon wasn't even able to cross the Ferelden borders or to endure long enough to allow the 5th blight to be recognised as a proper blight.
Loghain did nothing more but to take a shot over a dying critter.
It was Loghain who builded the army to reach the Archdemon or who damaged it to the point where it was defeated?No
In fact i would argue that the true final blow is the cinematic one who put on the floor the Archdemon not the one who killed it.
Homicidal beasts that goes on a rampage in the world and that enslaved people are worth preserving because?
Old Gods aren't homicidal beasts. That is the corruption within from the darkspawn. The interraction we had with OGB shows them as kind and wise, more like Skyrim's dragons than the beasts of Dragon age
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