37 Antworten in diesem Thema

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

After playing the Trespasser DLC, no spoilers here because that's not what I am discussing, I really feel like the downfall of this franchise is it doesn't know where it wants to go.

 

Now I know Mass Effect and Dragon Age are two different games. Though I have always been a believer that, ideas and general concepts are not bound by genres.

 

The reason why Mass Effect was so effective was because it had an anchor, someone we could identify in Shepard. Now I know that's not the type of game Dragon Age is, but we've never really had a stable protagonist.

 

The Grey Warden Protagonist, that everyone was so wanting to keep. Dead or MIA because Hawke. Who everyone hated, even I hated him because he was just such a blank slate, and no one wanted to play solely a human person. Dragon Age Origins never present itself as wanting to be Mass Effect it was its own identity.

 

Thus Hawke was once again killed off, very shoddily so for the Inquisitor, who for the most part would have been Hawke, if Hawke was not so poorly received.

 

So we got another protagonist everyone is happy with. A protagonist, we feel the story is not completely finished. But once again, we're jumping again from one protagonist to another. Leaving all available emotional connection to the story, on a thin thread. 

 

And I wonder why they are taking this direction. When DAI, is game of the year. The Inquisitor is positively received through the eyes of the public. Dragon Age is going to continue to gain an identity crisis or even poorer sales if Bioware doesn't know where they want to go.

 

Corphyeus was technically Hawke's enemy, but it worked out with the Inquisitor being roped into into the story

 

 

Minor Spoiler alert here:

 

Now the Inquisitor story isn't even done and Solas is the Inquisitor enemy.

 

Spoiler over.

 

But there is no emotional investment in a new protagonist. The stories being told are great. Do not get me wrong I love DAI more than I loved Dragon Age 2. But they feel so distant, when they remove the main protagonist from their story.

 

But those are just some of my thoughts. Go ahead throw tomatoes at me. Or do whatever you like. Pitchforks or something, maybe a torch. I don't mind. Because clearly I am just another idiot on the internet with an opinion. And I am not going to change anyone else's mind. <---sorry self deprecating humor 

[Abyss108]

Well, I half agree with you?

 

I definitely want the Inquisitor back for the next game (if she's not back I won't buy it, or any other Bioware games any more), but in general I prefer a new protagonist every game. That just relies of the game wrapping up the protagonists story before we move on.

 

I hated Shepard. She was incredibly generic and in order to tell a massive 3 game spanning plot about her, she had to fit into a very narrow characterisation. I got to choose whether she was a decent person or just punched reporters in the face, but never got to make her an interesting flawed character. That was bad enough for 1 game, but an entire trilogy? No thanks.

 

I like getting to be a new person each game, playing as a different culture and trying to understand it from the inside. Dragon Age (minus 2) allows me to do that. I've never wanted the Warden/Hawke to return because their plots all got wrapped up.

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

But the Inquisitors story is not complete. And you suffer the lack of being able to connect with the story. There is no emotional stake in the story, if you're always changing the protagonist. 

 

I half agree Shepard was a cardboard cut out. But there has to be some sort of balance. The Trespasser DLC, really solidified to me how much I have an emotional investment in the Inquisitor not in the same way I had for the other characters in the series.

 

It's too sad for me to end that good of a narrative. It really was the Trespasser DLC that solidified to me, that the Inquisitor had an emotional stake. The delivery of "I don't want to die" Was powerfully gut wrenching.

 

They have something in the narrative.

 

You destroy all that effort and work towards an emotional connection to a character with a constant shifting protagonist. 

[Abyss108]

But the Inquisitors story is not complete. And you suffer the lack of being able to connect with the story. There is no emotional stake in the story, if you're always changing the protagonist. 

 

I half agree Shepard was a cardboard cut out. But there has to be some sort of balance. The Trespasser DLC, really solidified to me how much I have an emotional investment in the Inquisitor not in the same way I had for the other characters in the series.

 

It's too sad for me to end that good of a narrative. It really was the Trespasser DLC that solidified to me, that the Inquisitor had an emotional stake. The delivery of "I don't want to die" Was powerfully gut wrenching.

 

They have something in the narrative.

 

You destroy all that effort and work towards an emotional connection to a character with a constant shifting protagonist. 

 

 

I know? 

 

That's why I said that I want the Inquisitor back, and won't be buying the next game or any other Bioware games if she isn't back. 

 

I just don't consider DA1/2 to have suffered because of the protagonist, they were better for it. But those game had a complete story that didn't cut off halfway through.

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

I know? 

 

That's why I said that I want the Inquisitor back, and won't be buying the next game or any other Bioware games if she isn't back. 

 

I just don't consider DA1/2 to have suffered because of the protagonist, they were better for it. But those game had a complete story that didn't cut off halfway through.

 

This is sort of true. As much as I would have been happy with playing my Grey Warden, it wasn't necessary.

 

And Dragon Age 2 is such an abomination, I don't even like to consider that it existed at all. I wish Hawke was never created, never existed, and he was as boring as the Shepard in Mass Effect.

 

but Dragon Age Inquisition, the Inquisitor, that's something special.

 

And I guess what I am trying to communicate, is that if the Inquisitor is not in the next game, there is no investment, nor any stake in the story. You're not anchored down by the responsibility, the emotional relationship you have created especially with Romance and Friendship options to Solas. There's so much gravity in the relationship you created with Solas and the Inquisitor it just seems to dumb to say the Inquisitor story is done.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

It is because no one sat down to plan out the tapestry in sequence. It is because gamers demanded different races of choice for each installment (except DA II) resulting in a common weave in the tapestry. Games have limitations, hence the contentious, controversial effect of different racial choices are not there. Each time the main frame is reset, changes in lore is inevitable.

 

I have less involvement in the DA series (I was invested in ME) because it's mainly : actor enter stage right, exit stage left for each act. Thanks for the dance, bye.  If the inquisitor doesn't come back for the next one, I doubt I'll be very upset although they would have to write a good filler to explain zero involvement if ABC turned out to be the main bogeyman.  Yes, yes, most think he is going to be. *shrug*

[Abyss108]

This is sort of true. As much as I would have been happy with playing my Grey Warden, it wasn't necessary.

 

And Dragon Age 2 is such an abomination, I don't even like to consider that it existed at all. I wish Hawke was never created, never existed, and he was as boring as the Shepard in Mass Effect.

 

but Dragon Age Inquisition, the Inquisitor, that's something special.

 

And I guess what I am trying to communicate, is that if the Inquisitor is not in the next game, there is no investment, nor any stake in the story. You're not anchored down by the responsibility, the emotional relationship you have created especially with Romance and Friendship options to Solas. There's so much gravity in the relationship you created with Solas and the Inquisitor it just seems to dumb to say the Inquisitor story is done.

 

 

Yup, we're 100% agreed on the subject of the Inquisitor.

 

I don't like Hawke either. I prefer her to Shepard, simply because she did have a personality. Just not one I felt I had any control over, which is terrible for an RPG. "Better than Shepard" is the lowest possible bar to cross for me.

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

It is because no one sat down to plan out the tapestry in sequence. It is because gamers demanded different races of choice for each installment (except DA II) resulting in a common weave in the tapestry. Games have limitations, hence the contentious, controversial effect of different racial choices are not there. Each time the main frame is reset, changes in lore is inevitable.

 

I have less involvement in the DA series (I was invested in ME) because it's mainly : actor enter stage right, exit stage left for each act. Thanks for the dance, bye.  If the inquisitor doesn't come back for the next one, I doubt I'll be very upset although they would have to write a good filler to explain zero involvement if ABC turned out to be the main bogeyman.  Yes, yes, most think he is going to be. *shrug*

 

But that's not the type of game Dragon Age Origins presented itself as. Those "demands" people made, were asking for features that were already there. Elements Dragon Age Origins originally introduced.

 

And tbh, it was unique. Sure Elder Scrolls had done it as well, but Dragon Age Origins lore was rich and unique and interesting. No one made demands of anything. They asked for the game they were promised, or at least the original fans.

 

Dragon Age Inquisition feels like a lot better of a sequel than.....the sequel that shall not be named.

[Andraste_Reborn]

*shrug*

 

Given a binary choice, I'd prefer a new protagonist to a returning Inquisitor. I like having a new PC every game, and it's one of the reasons I prefer Dragon Age to Mass Effect. (My actual preference is for dual protagonists in DA4, but if I can't have that, I'd prefer for the Inquistor to retire honourably.)

 

But then, I loved DA2 and liked Hawke fine. (Not as much as I like having race selection, mind you.)

[Inkvisiittori]

"Better than Shepard" is the lowest possible bar to cross for me.

 

Hah, got to agree with you there... I didn't like Hawke all that much, but compared to Shep there is much more roleplaying options.

 

I want Inquisitor back for the next game too, because (like others have already said) it feels like her story isn't finished. In Trespasser she declares that she will fight Solas. She promises to stop or redeem him. Why would I want a new protagonist over the Inquisitor who already has such a beautiful connection to Solas, who will likely be the main antagonist of DA4?

 

Normally I would say out with the old, in with the new. I certainly would have been extremely disappointed if Hawke had been the protagonist of DAI. But when Inquisitor's story is still not over, why should a new unconnected protagonist take her place? Just because "that's what they have always done"? That's literally the worst reasoning ever.

 

I could deal with dual protagonist situation where we play as the new hero 75% of the game and as Inquisitor 25% of the game. But I would still prefer if they just decided Inquisitor will be the main protagonist again... however, what ever they decide I will probably buy the game anyway (I just hope there is multiple player races like in DAO/DAI because 'human only' was the main reason I hated DA2 and Hawke). 

[ArcadiaGrey]

I want my Inquisitors to be back in the game, but in an advisory capacity like Cullen and Leliana.  The baggage they all carry is incredibly varied depending on choice, and it would tie up the narrative of the new game before the writers even began.

 

So let me be new, but have my Quizzy there at my side for many moments of the game.  Some of which reference his/her own personal story.

[Fredward]

Er, no. I'm relatively sure the Dragon Age has been sold as a story about the Dragon Age setting first and foremost with the cast of characters and protags being part of the broader tapestry, not the subject. You might disagree with that take but it's not an identity crisis, they know where they wanna go with this. As for not having an emotional connection to the different protagonists... I disagree? I've formed an emotional connection to all of them. Would that connection be stronger if they carried the same character through the same series? Probably.

 

But if I compare the broader settings, the world, the lore of DA with ME DA blows it out of the water. So DA as a story of TheDAS (the Dragon Age Setting) is a rousing success from my perspective. And I am as okay with this kind of story as I was with Shepard's.

[Havyn25]

I may be in the minority here, but I loved DA2 and Hawke. DA2 was the first game I played, maybe that was part of it. I didn't go in with any expectations from Origins as I hadn't played that one yet. I am not that fussed on Origins at all. I played it just to see some of the extra lore and the things that were referenced in DA2. Playing Origins made me enjoy DA2 more. Never got into Mass Effect so can't really comment on Shepherd.

 

I'd prefer we get a new protagonist in DA4, but with the Inquisitor there for some of it, maybe a cameo like Hawke in Inquistion or a dual protagonist role somehow.

[Heimerdinger]

They want Thedas, the world itself, to be the anchor, instead of some universal protagonist. If it's working or not, well.. that's highly debatable. The identity crisis I see is on the gameplay side. DAO was a complex PC RPG focused on strategy, DA2 is a streamlined action game, while DAI tries to be a mix of both (emphasis on "tries").

[IllustriousT]

I believe that part of the DA series is the emotional investment, not only with the characters, but with Thedas itself.

 

 

The first game introduced the world, the lore, the people, and their multitude of plights. The introduction of the Grey Wardens were necessary to explain their role, their purpose, and their NEED to end the blight leading to possible corruption.  This is necessary to understand why they imprisoned Cory and that NEED was being exploited by the Magister. Hawke's role allowed us to see the blight from a different perspective, to understand the pain and suffering of, not only the mages and Templars, but of all the people in Kirkwall, which at this point is a diverse group of refugees, commoners, nobles, Qunari, and elves. This is a ripe environment to get a few themes across to the audience about Thedas. Hawke, while I agree was most likely going to be the Inquisitor, I am glad they went a different direction. Her/His involvement is still very important since s/he is the reason why the villain exists in DAI. S/he was the one who  freed Cory after all, though not intentionally. That leads to a new organization being formed to deal with that threat, especially since all other organizations are weakened by war and internal conflict (also incited partially through Hawke). 

 

As the player we are able to see through the eyes of many people who are part of Thedas' history, we are given the advantage of multiple points of views about so many aspects of what it means to be Thedosian - and the plight of each group involved. 

 

I would like to see the Inquisitor return, especially since she is emotional involved in the events that have taken place, because simply I think it is the only thing that could sensibly take place given the ending of Trespasser. If s/he is not the PC, that would be okay, but s/he needs to be there, s/he needs to have a say. That story is clearly not complete, and needs to be. 

[Hrulj]

None of the protagonists had completed their arcs, except Hawke, and Hawke completed his in Inquisition (optionally)

 

I am still hoping that Hero of Ferelden will come back in one of the next games as a protagonist. Morrigan, Flemeth and the God-child have too much of importance to never make an impact. I am just hoping that when that plot enters the stage, Grey Warden will be next to Morrigan

[XxFAMOUSxX]

I actually enjoy the fact that they have a new protagonist for every game, It's one of the main factors that sets it apart from other series, like a mass effect. I enjoyed all 3 games personally, & enjoy the fact it's not the main antagonist that the world revolves around, unlike in ME. In ME I got the impression that the game solely revolved around Shepard & his accomplishments (which I get of course) but it also made the universe seem to have less depth because of it. Unlike ME, DA revolves around the world of thedas and the lore behind it. I had more enjoyment in that. It's because of that, DA felt much bigger than any single protagonist. It seemed to be much bigger, & had more depth than it did in ME (at least it did for me). With andromeda coming it's to be seen what changes they've made, with it being a new chapter in the series. The next DA game is a toss up I think. With more questions than answers it's hard to say what they might do next & It's that reason alone, why I will buy the next game. I like the fact knowing, it won't be the same character & revolving around a single entity or villain, it will (more or less) be a new story with it probably leaving us with again, more questions than answers lol. I wouldn't even mind a change if it made sense (like if the inquisitor came back for the next game instead of a new protag) but I enjoy what they done so far. I get your point in your post though, but it works for me.

[wicked cool]

Bring on a new face. Would love a cameo of my inquisitor.

I dont want to jump into a game either as a very powerful character of the same character who has started over like shepard with no powers/reborn etc

I want new and fresh but i have no problems if we are wardens or part of inquisition. I want an origin back not a line in a conversation

I wouldnt mind closure on the hero of fereldan

[thebigbad1013]

I have said this before but I'll say it again; I prefer Dragon Age to keep giving us a new protagonist each game.To me it feels much more realistic that way instead of having one single person be the Grey Warden who stops the Blight, then becomes the Champion Of Kirkwall, then the Inquisitor, then the next thing and so on. I also enjoy playing a different character each game because it gives me the opportunity to play lots of different characters with different backgrounds rather than just the same old one each and every single game. I do think the Inquisitor will have a role to play in the next game, all things considered, but like ArcadiaGrey I'm thinking it will be in an advisor role so we once again get a new character to play.

 

I also firmly disagree with the notion that there can be no emotional investment in the games because it's a new protagonist. That is simply not true for me.

 

And just for the record, Hawke is my favorite protagonist in Dragon Age so far, so not everyone hated him/her.

[IllustriousT]

None of the protagonists had completed their arcs, except Hawke, and Hawke completed his in Inquisition (optionally)

 

I am still hoping that Hero of Ferelden will come back in one of the next games as a protagonist. Morrigan, Flemeth and the God-child have too much of importance to never make an impact. I am just hoping that when that plot enters the stage, Grey Warden will be next to Morrigan

 

The only protagonist that is definitely alive and well is the Inquisitor in all world states. The Warden sacrificed herself in my canon world state, so their lives after the blight is material written in solely for branching purposes. They can not bring back the Warden as a PC because there is a very real possibility that they will alienate a large portion of fans that felt good about their ending of DA:O. There are too many variables to consider. Warden can perform US, Warden can become King, Warden can continue as a Warden...just too much for a PC. Also, there is a very real possibility, that depending on the passage of time, that the Warden could succumb to the calling (if they didn't find a cure - which in my opinion would be plot armor and too convenient). 

[Beerfish]

Well, I half agree with you?

 

I definitely want the Inquisitor back for the next game (if she's not back I won't buy it, or any other Bioware games any more), but in general I prefer a new protagonist every game. That just relies of the game wrapping up the protagonists story before we move on.

 

I hated Shepard. She was incredibly generic and in order to tell a massive 3 game spanning plot about her, she had to fit into a very narrow characterisation. I got to choose whether she was a decent person or just punched reporters in the face, but never got to make her an interesting flawed character. That was bad enough for 1 game, but an entire trilogy? No thanks.

 

I like getting to be a new person each game, playing as a different culture and trying to understand it from the inside. Dragon Age (minus 2) allows me to do that. I've never wanted the Warden/Hawke to return because their plots all got wrapped up.

I don't believe you.

[Abyss108]

I don't believe you.

 

 

...Um, good for you? 

[Hrulj]

The only protagonist that is definitely alive and well is the Inquisitor in all world states. The Warden sacrificed herself in my canon world state, so their lives after the blight is material written in solely for branching purposes. They can not bring back the Warden as a PC because there is a very real possibility that they will alienate a large portion of fans that felt good about their ending of DA:O. There are too many variables to consider. Warden can perform US, Warden can become King, Warden can continue as a Warden...just too much for a PC. Also, there is a very real possibility, that depending on the passage of time, that the Warden could succumb to the calling (if they didn't find a cure - which in my opinion would be plot armor and too convenient). 

I dont mean alive and well at all. What I mean is having finished their story arc. Dead or alive, their story is done. I didn't have that feeling with anyone. Warden is out somewhere looking for the cure for the calling, Inquisitor is left wondering about Solas and what is to come. Only Hawke met a satisfying end of his story by staying behind in Inqusition. 

 

I dont see why they couldn't do what they did with Awakening. If your Warden is alive then import him and have him on his Quest to find a cure to the calling, or have him involved in Morrigan-Flemeth-Solas old Gods business. 

 

Or if he is not alive you create a new character with a new backstory, like the Orlesian Warden commander in Awakening. 

 

And then, if they want an end, do something similar to Origins begining, except with the ending. Dwarven noble goes to Orzamar and takes the Throne, do a few quests there to do that and end of story. Or something to that effect. 

 

For me the bottom line is that you make the character. Having him or her go back trough several games only gives them further depth, and doesn't take away from your choices. 

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

 

 

For me the bottom line is that you make the character. Having him or her go back trough several games only gives them further depth, and doesn't take away from your choices. 

 

Pretty much this, but they completely rewrote all of my choices anyway, which emphasizes the Illusion of Choice in these games. In one of my Grey Warden runthroughs, Lelianna is suppose to be dead. I killed her. She shouldn't be standing there walking around with her pretty singing voice and soulless ginger hair in any of the games Dragon Age 2 or DAI.

 

Because no matter what in someone else's game she is presumed dead.

 

It just throws so many continuity errors in the story.

 

But I mean I figure it out, it's her red hair, it must be what is keeping her alive, she has no soul and cannot pass on. But in all seriousness, unlike the last two games, there is an emotional investment in the Inquisitor.

 

You take out any of that heavy impact of the story emotionally if you just change the character on the players.

[Hrulj]

Pretty much this, but they completely rewrote all of my choices anyway, which emphasizes the Illusion of Choice in these games. In one of my Grey Warden runthroughs, Lelianna is suppose to be dead. I killed her. She shouldn't be standing there walking around with her pretty singing voice and soulless ginger hair in any of the games Dragon Age 2 or DAI.

 

Because no matter what in someone else's game she is presumed dead.

 

It just throws so many continuity errors in the story.

 

But I mean I figure it out, it's her red hair, it must be what is keeping her alive, she has no soul and cannot pass on. But in all seriousness, unlike the last two games, there is an emotional investment in the Inquisitor.

 

You take out any of that heavy impact of the story emotionally if you just change the character on the players.

Choice and illusion of choice can be kept just fine. Have a blonde leliana with different voice actor who will do all the same things, except slightly different dialogue or story. I honestly wouldn't have problem with that, as long as the story continues on.