445 réponses à ce sujet

[Almila_Lavellan]

When/where does it say that, and in what context, please?


Do you suppose the same thing could happen if a mundane read that book?


No, I didn't forget it. I don't have it or any of the other supplementary materials, and have thus never read any of them.

I do, however, find it difficult to believe it actually says that.

 

"Magic is a corrupting influence in the world."   http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Chantry

 

"Your magic is a gift, but it's also a curse."  - Knight-Commander Greagoir

 

"What I have done is protect you mages from your curse and your own stupidity!" - Knight-Commander Meredith

 

This is what Chantry teaches obviously.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Chantry des not control the kingdoms? All of the Circle Towers in all Andrastian kingdoms controlled by the Chantry. All Templars controlled by the Chantry, and abuse citizens freely. One of the kings has no say in the life of the Tower what standing in his field, and can not send home the Templars. And don't forget: The nobles can't elect baron in Kirkwall, because of Meredith (and Elthina)! This all example proves the freedom of kingdoms.

<Facepalm> Stop spreading false narrative using invalid examples to support this narrative. As i have said Chantry has no word to say in politics, they are only concerned with matter of their religion and mages.Circles and Templars fall under policing the mages.Meredith was an exceptional case because Templar very stong presence in Kirkwall and her hero status made her more influental than viscount was.

 

 

Chantry doesn't control anything it seems? Chantry has a say on most things. It's not only mages or religion. You can see chantry mother praying on coronation ceremony. Divine is seen as the most powerful person in Thedas which means she can control a lot of things. I like how you justify rasicm so I won't make a comment on it. True, Chantry may not give a damn but Chantry CAN'T and SHOULDN'T try to change people's religion, it's disgusting.

Where i have said chantry doesn't control anything , you mistranslate what i said for own purposes. What i have said is that chantry has no say when it comes to politics and only have control over mages and things associated with mages and religion.So? chantry mother had no say there?

Terrible argument as i have said divine is in charge of chantry and circles what makes her very powerful but she has no legal power over the nation.Divine had no power over Viscount and Divine had no power over Celene, all divine could hope to do is to influence the nation.No argument then? Yes they can it is called expansion plenty religions to that and yes they should if they want to stay in position of dominant religion, 

[Catilina]

<Facepalm> Stop spreading false narrative using invalid examples to support this narrative. As i have said Chantry has no word to say in politics, they are only concerned with matter of their religion and mages.Circles and Templars fall under policing the mages.Meredith was an exceptional case because Templar very stong presence in Kirkwall and her hero status made her more influental than viscount was.

 

 

Where i have said chantry doesn't control anything , you mistranslate what i said for own purposes. What i have said is that chantry has no say when it comes to politics and only have control over mages and things associated with mages and religion.So? chantry mother had no say there?

Terrible argument as i have said divine is in charge of chantry and circles what makes her very powerful but she has no legal power over the nation.Divine had no power over Viscount and Divine had no power over Celene, all divine could hope to do is to influence the nation.No argument then? Yes they can it is called expansion plenty religions to that and yes they should if they want to stay in position of dominant religion, 

And Elthina? Then it's all Elthina fault, it's obvious. The Baron election is political thing, not religious. Elthina letting Meredith takes advantage of the interregnum, and thus endanger the city.

 

You're now wanted to prove that Anders' action was right? Thanks for the surprise support!

[Almila_Lavellan]

<Facepalm> Stop spreading false narrative using invalid examples to support this narrative. As i have said Chantry has no word to say in politics, they are only concerned with matter of their religion and mages.Circles and Templars fall under policing the mages.Meredith was an exceptional case because Templar very stong presence in Kirkwall and her hero status made her more influental than viscount was.

 

 

Where i have said chantry doesn't control anything , you mistranslate what i said for own purposes. What i have said is that chantry has no say when it comes to politics and only have control over mages and things associated with mages and religion.So? chantry mother had no say there?

Terrible argument as i have said divine is in charge of chantry and circles what makes her very powerful but she has no legal power over the nation.Divine had no power over Viscount and Divine had no power over Celene, all divine could hope to do is to influence the nation.No argument then? Yes they can it is called expansion plenty religions to that and yes they should if they want to stay in position of dominant religion, 

 

If a religion is everywhere in the kingdom, even in the coronation, it means that religion actually controls most of the things. Just because game doesn't openly show doesn't mean they don't control anything in the Kingdom except for mages and religion. True, divine didn't have any power because her Knight-Commander was already seizing power on Kirkwall. She didn't let nobles to choose a Viscount, isn't this enough evidence of Chantry's control? Religion expansion is a lie. You can't force people to believe something. They would just pretend they believe.

[Pasquale1234]

"Magic is a corrupting influence in the world."   ]http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Chantry
 
"Your magic is a gift, but it's also a curse."  - Knight-Commander Greagoir
 
"What I have done is protect you mages from your curse and your own stupidity!" - Knight-Commander Meredith
 
This is what Chantry teaches obviously.

I appreciate the response.

I don't regard the comments of a couple of Knight-Commanders as representative of official Chantry doctrine, but it is unfortunate that they would say things like that to mages.

I see that this bit: "Magic is a corrupting influence in the world" comes from WoT, which is probably why I've never seen it in-game. It looks like that is considered as a core doctrine, but they probably ought to re-word it or find a way to teach it so that people can understand that it is a tool that can be used for good or ill, just like any other tool.

[TheKomandorShepard]

And Elthina? Then it's all Elthina fault, it's obvious. The Baron election political thing, not religious. Elthina letting Meredith takes advantage of the interregnum, and thus endanger the city.

 

You're now wanted to prove that Anders' action was right? Thanks for the surprise support!

Elthina was a fool and a dormant, that is part of the reason why Meredith pretty much ran this city.As i said Kirkwall was exepctional case, before Dumar was appointed Divine couldn't tell Viscount what to do, then she tried to use Templars to intimidate viscount what failed as they refused because they are politically neutral.

 

Hardly, the only good thing (at least for me) was that he finished off Elthina.

 

 

 

If a religion is everywhere in the kingdom, even in the coronation, it means that religion actually controls most of the things. Just because game doesn't openly show doesn't mean they don't control anything in the Kingdom except for mages and religion. True, divine didn't have any power because her Knight-Commander was already seizing power on Kirkwall. She didn't let nobles to choose a Viscount, isn't this enough evidence of Chantry's control? Religion expansion is a lie. You can't force people to believe something. They would just pretend they believe.

That is illogical nonsense, chantry mother was most likely there for sake of Ferelden tradition.She has no say in matter of monarch nor she had a voice in landsmeet.Divine had no power over Kirkwall even before Durmar, in fact divine couldn't force previous Viscount to do what she wanted and even tried to intimidate him with templars but Templars refused as they were politically neutral.Did you even listen to what i have said because it seems you remain in your echo-chamber i evidently pointed out reason why situation in Kirkwall was exceptional and provided examples of chantry having no say in matters of 3 countries. Qunari, plus worked well for plenty of dominant now religions.

 

 

"Magic is a corrupting influence in the world."   http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Chantry

 

"Your magic is a gift, but it's also a curse."  - Knight-Commander Greagoir

 

"What I have done is protect you mages from your curse and your own stupidity!" - Knight-Commander Meredith

 

This is what Chantry teaches obviously.

It isn't? im pretty sure it is. Plus, you forgot about chantry stance it is also gift.

 

He said it is gift and curse, stop spreading false narrative.

 

I like Meredith statment the most , but by the time she said that she was getting little crazy due to influence of idol.

[Illegitimus]

When/where does it say that, and in what context, please?


Do you suppose the same thing could happen if a mundane read that book?
 

 

Maybe actually.  I know my rogue summoned a few demons in her day.  

[Almila_Lavellan]

Elthina was a fool and a dormant, that is part of the reason why Meredith pretty much ran this city.As i said Kirkwall was exepctional case, before Dumar was appointed Divine couldn't tell Viscount what to do, then she tried to use Templars to intimidate viscount what failed as they refused because they are politically neutral.

 

Hardly, the only good thing (at least for me) was that he finished off Elthina.

 

 

 

That is illogical nonsense, chantry mother was most likely there for sake of Ferelden tradition.She has no say in matter of monarch nor she had a voice in landsmeet.Divine had no power over Kirkwall even before Durmar, in fact divine couldn't force previous Viscount to do what she wanted and even tried to intimidate him with templars but Templars refused as they were politically neutral.Did you even listen to what i have said because it seems you remain in your echo-chamber i evidently pointed out reason why situation in Kirkwall was exceptional and provided examples of chantry having no say in matters of 3 countries. Qunari, plus worked well for plenty of dominant now religions.

 

 

It isn't? im pretty sure it is. Plus, you forgot about chantry stance it is also gift.

 

He said it is gift and curse, stop spreading false narrative.

 

I like Meredith statment the most , but by the time she said that she was getting little crazy due to influence of idol.

 

 

Chantry mother is most likely a symbolic for Chantry control, it isn't just a tradition. If you think it is just a tradition, you're being naive.

 

Yes, they also say it's a gift. It's written in my response. Did you read it?

 

By the way, racism can't be justified. I didn't make a comment about it since I really find it ridiculous. They started Exalted March because they thought Elves were blasphemous. It's not their place to decide it. Everyone should be free to choose what they believe. I wonder, are you one of those people who thinks his/her race and/or religion is superior to others? Chantry is racist, and it can't be justified.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Chantry mother is most likely a symbolic for Chantry control, it isn't just a tradition. If you think it is just a tradition, you're being naive.

 

Yes, they also say it's a gift. It's written in my response. Did you read it?

 

By the way, racism can't be justified. I didn't make a comment about it since I really find it ridiculous. They started Exalted March because they thought Elves were blasphemous. It's not their place to decide it. Everyone should be free to choose what they believe. I wonder, are you one of those people who thinks his/her race and/or religion is superior to others? Chantry is racist, and it can't be justified.

More of that conspiracy nonsense that you spread in order to validate what you are saying? I cleary pointed how chantry had no power in Ferelden politics in situations like Landsemet or chosing Monarch, yet just like many things you gleefully ignored it.

 

Yes i did read it (im not a blind) but that is pretty much invalidating your statement, as chantry perceives magic as something with negatives and positives.

 

It can be, just as Ferelden has good reason to hate Oresians Chantry has good reasons to hate elves, they screwd themselves by invading a stronger opponent and paid price of it, just like everyone does.In fact they started Exalted March because elves invaded but keep going with your false narrative.That is not how you create successful religion.Nope, but i sure love expansion as long im one that benefits from it.

[Almila_Lavellan]

More of that conspiracy nonsense that you spread in order to validate what you are saying? I cleary pointed how chantry had no power in Ferelden politics in situations like Landsemet or chosing Monarch, yet just like many things you gleefully ignored it.

 

Yes i did read it (im not a blind) but that is pretty much invalidating your statement, as chantry perceives magic as something with negatives and positives.

 

It can be, just as Ferelden has good reason to hate Oresians Chantry has good reasons to hate elves, they screwd themselves by invading a stronger opponent and paid price of it, just like everyone does.In fact they started Exalted March because elves invaded but keep going with your false narrative.That is not how you create successful religion.Nope, but i sure love expansion as long im one that benefits from it.

 

Calling something curse and gift at the same time is inconsistent. That's what I think. You can't use an extreme word such as "curse" to show negatives. It's exaggeration.

Ferelden has really good reasons but Chantry really doesn't. If you paid attention, lore says Exalted March partially was humans' fault. Religious people shouldn't start wars in order to gain followers. It's brutal and primitive. I am just so done with this argument because it goes around circles. Yeah, okay you're right. Chantry was right all along while condoning deeds of templars. There's nothing wrong with racism as long as it's not against you. Yes, your religion and race superior to mine since you like expansion and all.

[Arshei]

Calling something curse and gift at the same time is inconsistent. That's what I think. You can't use an extreme word such as "curse" to show negatives. It's exaggeration.

Ferelden has really good reasons but Chantry really doesn't. If you paid attention, lore says Exalted March partially was humans' fault. Religious people shouldn't start wars in order to gain followers. It's brutal and primitive. I am just so done with this argument because it goes around circles. Yeah, okay you're right. Chantry was right all along while condoning deeds of templars. There's nothing wrong with racism as long as it's not against you. Yes, your religion and race superior to mine since you like expansion and all.

 

Oh god...

 

You already know why it is a curse, and it is a gift because you can help people.

 

And let me tell you again why mages can't be free.

 

Mages are tornadoes now? Mages are people, not some disaster.

 

Rapers, pedophiles, murderers, etc are people too, but I bet you prefer them in prison than in your neighborhood.

[Almila_Lavellan]

^ And your point is? 

You mean mages are tools, they should be used and then locked away? It's ironic how you put Morrigan's dialogue here btw.

[Arshei]

^ And your point is? 

You mean mages are tools, they should be used and then locked away? It's ironic how you put Morrigan's dialogue here btw.

 

Weak mages should be locked up, when they prove they are capable enough themselves they can "sort of" go free, like Vivienne, Wynne, etc.

They don't have to work, the only thing they have to do is study and prepare themselves for the harrowing, that doesn't seem like a very bad life. The elves from the alienage would probably prefer live in the circle.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Calling something curse and gift at the same time is inconsistent. That's what I think. You can't use an extreme word such as "curse" to show negatives. It's exaggeration.

Ferelden has really good reasons but Chantry really doesn't. If you paid attention, lore says Exalted March partially was humans' fault. Religious people shouldn't start wars in order to gain followers. It's brutal and primitive. I am just so done with this argument because it goes around circles. Yeah, okay you're right. Chantry was right all along while condoning deeds of templars. There's nothing wrong with racism as long as it's not against you. Yes, your religion and race superior to mine since you like expansion and all.

It's not, it is used as i said positive and negative sides of magic.Yes, you can magic comes with many negative conditions that not only threaten a mage but also others, therfore calling magic a curse is valid.

 

Exalted March was called by the chantry because Elves attacked capital city, it was elves own fault that chantry did it.You want to say that invasion was partially the human fault, however even then animosities started because elves were racist themselves and refused to help Orlais with blight.I disagree, not to mention chantry didn't start the war to gain a followers.I know im right.Yes, chantry was right all along it is when Divine started to support mages instead Templars system fell apart because Divine was foolish to free the mages what lead to a war.

[Almila_Lavellan]

Weak mages should be locked up, when they prove they are capable enough themselves they can "sort of" go free, like Vivienne, Wynne, etc.

They don't have to work, the only thing they have to do is study and prepare themselves for the harrowing, that doesn't seem like a very bad life.

 

I don't respect Vivienne or anything she does and says. She just uses everyone for her own ends. She looks down on everyone.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I don't respect Vivienne or anything she does and says. She just uses everyone for her own ends. She looks down on everyone.

Not to mention she never actually had to deal with the circles problems. Wonder how she'd feel if she was locked in the gallows

[Arshei]

I don't respect Vivienne or anything she does and says. She just uses everyone for her own ends. She looks down on everyone.

 

And what's the problem with that? she got out of the Circle and has everything she wants, following the rules.

She should have blew up a chantry?

She is the perfect example of what a mage has to do to get out of the Circle in that society, if they don't want that, boo hoo for them, the world isn't going to change because they don't like how mages are treated.

[thesuperdarkone2]

And what's the problem with that? she got out of the Circle and has everything she wants, following the rules.
She should have blew up a chantry?
She is the perfect example of what a mage has to do to get out of the Circle in that society, if they don't want that, boo hoo for them, the world isn't going to change because they don't like how mages are treated.

She only got out by whoring herself out. Are you saying that if an evil Mage gets free because of their sugar daddy, they should be free to go because they whored themselves out?

Also, Vivienne never suffered the Templar restrictions after Kirkwall and she's willing to screw over a working College in Divine Leliana's world because she can't handle not having power

[Almila_Lavellan]

It's not, it is used as i said positive and negative sides of magic.Yes, you can magic comes with many negative conditions that not only threaten a mage but also others, therfore calling magic a curse is valid.

 

Exalted March was called by the chantry because Elves attacked capital city, it was elves own fault that chantry did it.You want to say that invasion was partially the human fault, however even then animosities started because elves were racist themselves and refused to help Orlais with blight.I disagree, not to mention chantry didn't start the war to gain a followers.I know im right.Yes, chantry was right all along it is when Divine started to support mages instead Templars system fell apart because Divine was foolish to free the mages what lead to a war.

 

Do you know anything about the events that led to Exalted March?

http://dragonage.wik...ath_of_Elandrin

 

Both sides were faulty. You just say Elves did to themselves.

Chantry was stupid enough to condone deeds of their own soldiers. That's what happens when a group of people systematically oppresses other group, oppressed group rebels. When did Divine free mages anyway? What finally caused mage rebellion was discovery of tranquil's cure. You like rewriting the lore by yourself, don't you

[TheKomandorShepard]

She only got out by whoring herself out. Are you saying that if an evil Mage gets free because of their sugar daddy, they should be free to go because they whored themselves out?

Also, Vivienne never suffered the Templar restrictions after Kirkwall and she's willing to screw over a working College in Divine Leliana's world because she can't handle not having power

You mad bro that there are mages that can play by the rules and have decent live?

 

 

Do you know anything about the events that led to Exalted March?

http://dragonage.wik...ath_of_Elandrin

 

Both sides were faulty. You just say Elves did to themselves.

Chantry was stupid enough to condone deeds of their own soldiers. That's what happens when a group of people systematically oppresses other group, oppressed group rebels. When did Divine free mages anyway? What finally caused mage rebellion was discovery of tranquil's cure. You like rewriting the lore by yourself, don't you

It has very little to do with Exalted March rather than Dalish Invasion, Chantry called for March only after elves attacked capital.Plus as i said, Elves caused animosities between them and orlais themselves when they refused to fight with blight.They did it to themselves, they were one who started it long before this event and they were one who picked up fight with the chantry.

 

Templars would in fact win , lambert captured potential rebels and mages leaders and had them at his mercy.False what caused mage rebelion is that Divine freed mages she send Leliana to free them and told Lambert and templars to meet her so Leliana can free mages, in were mages that Leliana and Divine freed that voted later for war. Im not rewriting anything im mearly stating facts.

[Pasquale1234]

Calling something curse and gift at the same time is inconsistent.

It's pretty poignant though, isn't it?

That's actually been said about a lot of things. Google "blessing and curse" and "gift and curse" and you'll see that concept has been applied to several other things - including good looks, lol.

Extraordinarily gifted people often find that their gifts are accompanied by difficulties. I see no reason why that would not also apply to magic.

With great power comes great responsibility. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Etc.

[Almila_Lavellan]

You mad bro that there are mages that can play by the rules and have decent live?

 

You call decent life whoring yourself for your own ends? Wow, that's just so lame.

[Arshei]

She only got out by whoring herself out. Are you saying that if an evil Mage gets free because of their sugar daddy, they should be free to go because they whored themselves out?

Also, Vivienne never suffered the Templar restrictions after Kirkwall and she's willing to screw over a working College in Divine Leliana's world because she can't handle not having power

 

Then mages should start whoring themselves and adapting to the world instead of changing it for everyone.

 

If Vivienne would have been in Kirkwall, she would have been in power anyway. And Leliana is a terrible and naive person, you should know that since she tries to kill the only capable warden in DA:O just because he destroyed the urn.

[Arshei]

You call decent life whoring yourself for your own ends? Wow, that's just so lame.

 

"So lame" is killing innocent people and blew up chantries because you can't adapt to the world.

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, there is a lot in common between mages and feminist, both groups blame other people (templars/men) because they aren't intelligent enough to get what they want in their worlds.

[TheKomandorShepard]

You call decent life whoring yourself for your own ends? Wow, that's just so lame.

If you consider marriage "whoring" sure, but that is not an exception for mages.