445 réponses à ce sujet

[Almila_Lavellan]

It is quite revelant. It seems you support Anders actions or at least you made it look like it.

 

It's funny. I just responded Arshei's post which generalized mages. In your logic, every mage blows up a Chantry

[Arshei]

It's funny. I just responded Arshei's post which generalized mages. In your logic, every mage blows up a Chantry

 

And every Templar rapes mages, even Cullen, look at his face and call him a raper, go ahead.

[Inkvisiittori]

<facepalm>Did you even bother to read what im saying? Yes red lyrium existed, but it was nowhere near of the surface world until Corypheus distributed and started to grow it on the surface. So it is irrevelant it it existed before just like blight, if not Corypheus red lyrium would stay on deep roads and unlikely would reach the surface unless other magister brought it up.

 

<Facepalmx2> You are making stuff up, it isn't just another chantry lie, Blight didn't exist in Thedas at least times after Corypheus went to the black city.

 

 

Wrong again. Did you forgot all about Bartand's Deep Road Expedition and the Lyrium Idol they discovered there? The same one that drove knight-commander Meredith mad? It was only a matter of time before Red Lyrium was discovered. All Corypheus did was speed things up. 

 

Darkspawn simply hadn't yet found sleeping dragon of Dumat and corrupted it. There is no evidence that magisters causing the Blights by entering the Golden City is anything more than another piece of Chantry's propaganda against magic. 

[Almila_Lavellan]

And every Templar rapes mages, even Cullen, look at his face and call him a raper, go ahead.

 

 

He wasn't really different from Ser Alrik in DA:O. Sure, there's nothing that says he raped someone but he didn't like mages and wanted them to be made tranquil.

[TheKomandorShepard]

What do you mean elven gods were trying to destroy the world? Where's your proof?

What is wrong with magisters? How are they different from nobles of Orlais? You object to them being in power just because they have magic?

Slavery isn't result of magic. It has happened in other cultures too. Servants in Orlais are practically treated like slaves anyway. Nobody cares about how some nobleman in Orlais treats his servants. How is that different? Just because it isn't called slavery doesn't make it automatically any better.

I already told you, darkspawn existed long before Corypheus & Co entered the Golden City. 

 

Chantry's mismanagement of mages resulted in mage-templar rebellion and the slaughter of millions of innocents. Their history is full of bloody wars... Exalted Marches, Fall of the Dales, Drakon's expansionism,  even Andraste, their holy prophet, Maker Bride, was merely a war leader with clever tongue who's "holy army" slaughtered mages left and right... That pretty much sums andrastianism. If this Maker they believe in actually exists he is no gentle god. 

Solas said they would have destroyed entire world if he didn't create veil.

Don't know blights, turning entire mankind into slaves, many other disasters.Serveant can walk away, that is a difference.Plus, Tevinter is only country with legal slavery in Thedas, and uses them as a fuel or test subjects for rather nasty experiments (not that i mind the last).If i had to chose to be servant in Orlais and slave in Tevinter im taking a servant position.

 

And i already told you that is irrelevant, it didn't exist in Thedas until Corypheus brought it from black city.

 

Chantry's mismanagement. I agree and that mismanagement was done by Divine that freed mages and allowed them to start the war when templars had them under control.Plus wars were fought for expansion reasons, never were a threat to the world.

 

 

It's funny. I just responded Arshei's post which generalized mages. In your logic, every mage blows up a Chantry

Oh the irony, where i said that every mages blows up a chantry? Unless it is analogy but it is rather poor analogy because i simply acknowledge fact that mages are incredibly dangerous and go with effective solution.

[Qis]

Well, we've gone all the way around and have now arrived back at the point where I started: mages need to be trained to control their powers and use them safely.

I don't expect that's something a mundane can do for their kids. Mage children need to be taught by other mages. This is why Isolde hired Jowan, yes?

 

Mages should not be denied the opportunity to be educated in magic and congregate with others like them.

 

Isolde hired Jowan is because she don't want to send Connor to the Circle, in fact Connor will be fine even not tutored by any Mages and not learn any magic

 

Being born a Mage doesn't mean you have to learn magic, it is just out of fear Isolde hired a tutor for her son

 

 

Do you suppose that boatman just hasn't heard the alleged propaganda, or that maybe the propaganda isn't so damaging and ubiquitous as some would claim?

 

Not only the boatman, but also the innkeeper and those peoples hanging out there, they don't give a damn living near Mage Tower where all stuff happens

 

 

Did we forget about the Venatori and Adamant?

 

They're Tevinters and Grey Wardens.

 

Why peoples don't stop seeing Mages as one faction, instead of seeing factions among them?

 

The same why peoples don't stop looking ISIS as Muslims, instead looking them as terrorist group among Muslims?

 

That's why i said earlier this issue is tiresome in Dragon Age, it is totally bigotry at it's peak, Mage vs Templar is nothing other than sentiment and prejudice

[Catilina]

And every Templar rapes mages, even Cullen, look at his face and call him a raper, go ahead.

So hot...! And in the end it he was supported my Hawke and let him and his friends (included Anders) go away. Freely. And after he left the Order.  I like him...

[Arshei]

He wasn't really different from Ser Alrik in DA:O. Sure, there's nothing that says he raped someone but he didn't like mages and wanted them to be made tranquil.

 

Did Solas + Anders brainwashed your pretty head?

[Almila_Lavellan]

Did Solas + Anders brainwashed your pretty head?

 

No, I played DA:O and paid attention what was going on, unlike you. Or maybe you didn't save mages and see the reaction of Cullen.

[Arshei]

No, I played DA:O and paid attention what was going on, unlike you. Or maybe you didn't save mages and see the reaction of Cullen.

 

Because mages tortured him, you say it like he just wake up one day bored and started hating mages.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Wrong again. Did you forgot all about Bartand's Deep Road Expedition and the Lyrium Idol they discovered there? The same one that drove knight-commander Meredith mad? It was only a matter of time before Red Lyrium was discovered. All Corypheus did was speed things up. 

 

Darkspawn simply hadn't yet found sleeping dragon of Dumat and corrupted it. There is no evidence that magisters causing the Blights by entering the Golden City is anything more than another piece of Chantry's propaganda against magic. 

How exactly im wrong "again", it is hardly even relating to my point. Idol was mostly destroyed, while no would bring red lyrium to the surface without someone who could control it.Plus, Red lyrium was already discovered quite long time ago and location of it was erased and red lyrium forgotten.

 

That doesn't even make sense, you are making stuff up based on nothing but wishful thinking.Corypheus along with another 6 magisters went to the black city on command of old god and in order to obtain godhood, found corruption and got corrupted by the blight turning into a darkspawn.It fits chantry version perfectly.There is no single evidence that would contradict it or pointed out that darkspawn existed in Thedas before Corypheus

[Inkvisiittori]

Solas said they would have destroyed entire world if he didn't create veil.

Don't know blights, turning entire mankind into slaves, many other disasters.Serveant can walk away, that is a difference.Plus, Tevinter is only country with legal slavery in Thedas, and uses them as a fuel or test subjects for rather nasty experiments (not that i mind the last).If i had to chose to be servant in Orlais and slave in Tevinter im taking a servant position.

 

And i already told you that is irrelevant, it didn't exist in Thedas until Corypheus brought it from black city.

 

Chantry's mismanagement. I agree and that mismanagement was done by Divine that freed mages and allowed them to start the war when templars had them under control.Plus wars were fought for expansion reasons, never were a threat to the world.

 

Did Solas actually say they were going to destroy the world? All I remember him saying was (when asked about why he sealed them away and created the Veil) "because every alternative was worse." That could mean anything.

What do you even care about slavery? Didn't you earlier argue that it's the law and everyone must follow it (or does that only apply when it comes to imprisoning mages)? Well then, like you said, at least in Tevinter it's legal to own a slave where as in Orlais it's supposed to be illegal, yet it happens all the time and nobody cares about it. That is far more dangerous, when possible mistreatments are willingly overlooked.

 

You have no proof that Corypheus brought the Blight from Golden City to Thedas. Except the Chantry's word and they have already proven to be totally unreliable when it comes to truth (like when they erased Canticle of Shartan because it was politically inconvenient).

 

Templars had mages under control? Don't make me laugh. What about Kirkwall or the Spire or all the other Circle's rebelling? How exactly is that "under control"?

[Barquiel]

Nice propaganda but false, mages are allowed to marry and chosing their paths inside the circle, for rest of the things there are good reasons for that.They also aren't told they are monsters so you can turn off your drama that you use to sound like they live in gulag.

 

Some Circles of Magi prohibit relationships, that's stated by the devs. And in the other circles you would still need permission from the Chantry to get married.

 

Mages are locked up in towers, watched 24/7 by heavily armed drug addicts and constantly told how they're dangerous and cursed. And you don't think that's degrading? Do you remember Keili in the Mage Origin and Broken Circle quest in DA:O? She's one of the mages you meet where you find Wynne...and ends up believing whole-heartedly that mages are evil and deserve to die because they somehow committed an offense against the Maker that caused him to curse them at birth with being a mage. She should be the poster child for chantry/templar brainwashing toxicity (unless you seriously believe that Keili arrived at those thoughts entirely on her own).

[Qis]

Zathrian is a Mage and he live for a millenia, despite what the Chatry talk about Mages

 

i. you didn't see Zathrian summoning army of demons to take over the world

ii. become abomination and going rampage for 1000 years

iii. using his power as immortal to take over Ferelden and establish his own kingdom

iv. using Blood Magic to control peoples mind for 1000 years

v. using his knowledge, power and immortality to become super mage and subdue everyone under his will

 

Zathrian live with his clan alone and keep themselves to themselves roaming the forest for 1000 years, even if you side with him killing all those werewolves, after have some conflict with human he just get away vanish never seen again

 

Not all Mages are evil, ruthless, power hungry demon worshiper....Zathrian is literally an immortal Mage, a Dalish Keeper who hate human, but his hatred only toward human who kill his children, he curse them, the curse backfired...for 1000 years he didn't care to go out killing ALL human...why did he choose to live in isolation for 1000 years?

 

If the Chantry is correct then Ferelden don't exist, it already become Elven Empire under immortal powerful Mage
 

[Almila_Lavellan]

Because mages tortured him, you say it like he just wake up one day bored and started hating mages.

 

I didn't say he didn't have reasons. He had reasons just like some mages had reasons to hate templars I suppose.

[Pasquale1234]

When Uldred, a Senior Enchanter possessed by a Pride Demon, one of the most powerful demons in existence, created a veritable army of Abominations, undead, demons and ensnared Templars, there was not a single civilian casualty.
Whereas, when Meredith's sister was possessed by a demon, she killed 72 people.
What is the different between these two cases? Uldred was in the Circle, Meredith's sister was not. So, while the Chantry can't prevent every single incident, their methods have proven to be very much effective.
And, of course, the existence of societies free from Magisters is a statement to the effectiveness of the Circle system.

Didn't you know? When a mage (Uldred) consorts with demons inside the Circle, it is the Chantry's/Circle's fault. Also, when a mage (Connor) consorts with demons outside the Circle, it is the Chantry's/Circle's fault. If you've ever stubbed your toe in the middle of the night, well that's the Chantry's/Circle's fault, too. It was all probably caused by some Templar who managed to tell mages they are monsters for only 23 hours yesterday.

[Inkvisiittori]

How exactly im wrong "again", it is hardly even relating to my point. Idol was mostly destroyed, while no would bring red lyrium to the surface without someone who could control it.Plus, Red lyrium was already discovered quite long time ago and location of it was erased and red lyrium forgotten.

 

That doesn't even make sense, you are making stuff up based on nothing but wishful thinking.Corypheus along with another 6 magisters went to the black city on command of old god and in order to obtain godhood, found corruption and got corrupted by the blight turning into a darkspawn.It fits chantry version perfectly.There is no single evidence that would contradict it or pointed out that darkspawn existed in Thedas before Corypheus

 

Idol was mostly destroyed (but not all of it) but now thanks to it people know about Red Lyrium. It's no longer forgotten. Eventually more of it would've been found and brought to the surface. Like I said it was only the matter of time. And now at last everyone knows about it.

 

Yes there is evidence. Corypheus speaks about it in his memories. According to him Chantry claims they brought darkness into this world, when they in fact merely discovered it. There is a difference. 

[Catilina]

No, I played DA:O and paid attention what was going on, unlike you. Or maybe you didn't save mages and see the reaction of Cullen.

Its true, but he was tortured by demons, I not wonder, that he hates the mages and wanted to be tranquil all of them. But later, in Kirkwall, when Hawke talked with him, he was able to consider (pro-mage) Hawke's opinion about the Circle. He was able to gradually change his view point. This is not a bad trait. And I can understand him somewhat.  

[TheKomandorShepard]

Did Solas actually say they were going to destroy the world? All I remember him saying was (when asked about why he sealed them away and created the Veil) "because every alternative was worse." That could mean anything.

What do you even care about slavery? Didn't you earlier argue that it's the law and everyone must follow it (or does that only apply when it comes to imprisoning mages)? Well then, like you said, at least in Tevinter it's legal to own a slave where as in Orlais it's supposed to be illegal, yet it happens all the time and nobody cares about it. That is far more dangerous, when possible mistreatments are willingly overlooked.

 

You have no proof that Corypheus brought the Blight from Golden City to Thedas. Except the Chantry's word and they have already proven to be totally unreliable when it comes to truth (like when they erased Canticle of Shartan because it was politically inconvenient).

 

Templars had mages under control? Don't make me laugh. What about Kirkwall or the Spire or all the other Circle's rebelling? How exactly is that "under control"?

Yes.

I don't care about it , what i care is to what Tevinter uses their slaves what i already mentioned earlier, plus i only spoke from theoretically from moral point of view.Not rly, legal abuse is worse than ilegall abuse, unless abuse is completly overlooked what isn't true for Orlais in that case.

 

Proof no, huge amount of evidence that you ignored from my last post in favor of something that isn't even supported by anything, also chantry on that speficic issue turned out to be almost completly correct with some details being wrong.

 

Eee, you know Lambert captured mages and their leaders and locked them up leaving them at his mercy until divine freed them what lead to said mages voting to go on war with templars.Plus, Kirkwall situation was brought under control by templars no matter with who did you side with.

[MisterJB]

 

Some Circles of Magi prohibit relationships, that's stated by the devs. And in the other circles you would still need permission from the Chantry to get married.

 

Mages are locked up in towers, watched 24/7 by heavily armed drug addicts and constantly told how they're dangerous and cursed. And you don't think that's degrading? Do you remember Keili in the Mage Origin and Broken Circle quest in DA:O? She's one of the mages you meet where you find Wynne...and ends up believing whole-heartedly that mages are evil and deserve to die because they somehow committed an offense against the Maker that caused him to curse them at birth with being a mage. She should be the poster child for chantry/templar brainwashing toxicity (unless you seriously believe that Keili arrived at those thoughts entirely on her own).

 

 

Mages are provided with a quality of life far above the common average Thedosian where they don't have to fear starvation, cold, homelessness, illiteracy, bandits, darkspawn, etc.

Are there restrictions to their freedoms? Yes, but for good reasons and they are given much in return.
 

You know, Keili is the only mage we have seen harbouring these thoughts. Let's not act as if this a normal and frequent result of life in a Circle.

[Qis]

Flemeth also a Mage, and demon-spirit-goddess abomination at that, living for how long we don't know...with all her power and immortality, you don;t see her

 

i. become the queen of an empire

ii. commanding army of demons

iii. controlling kings and queens to do her biding by Blood Magic

iv. subdue everyone under her will

v. using her knowledge, power and immortality to become super queen of Thedas where no one can challenge her rule

 

In fact she who help Grey Warden against The Blight, she who save Hawke, she help The Inquisitor...she help everyone, she's a good person, a good Mage. She live in isolation just like Zathrian

[Arshei]

Flemeth also a Mage, and demon-spirit-goddess abomination at that, living for how long we don't know...with all her power and immortality

 

i. you don't see her become the queen of an empire

ii. commanding army of demons

iii. controlling kings and queens to do her biding by Blood Magic

iv. subdue everyone under her will

v. using her knowledge, power and immortality to become super queen of Thedas where no one can challenge her rule

 

In fact she who help Grey Warden against The Blight, she who save Hawke, she help The Inquisitor...she help everyone, she's a good person, a good Mage. She live in isolation just like Zathrian

 

And you believe Flemeth is exactly... a nice person? a mage who didn't used her powers to be more powerful?

Flemeth killed A LOT OF TEMPLARS, a lot of chasind, etc.

She isn't the paragon of good behavior on mages.

 

She helped the Grey Wardens because she wanted to get rid of Morrigan.

"v. using her knowledge, power and immortality to become super queen of Thedas where no one can challenge her rule"

Did you played DA:I? when you do it darling, choose the dialogue option "Why you don't reveal yourself to everyone?"

 

The only paragon of good behavior as a mage can be the inquisitor, Hawke or the hero of Ferelden.

Vivienne could be too, since everything she got wasn't because she was a mage, I would say the same of Wynne but she trying to kill the HoF and being an abomination doesn't help in the point mages are people.

[Almila_Lavellan]

And you believe Flemeth is exactly... a nice person? a mage who didn't used her powers to be more powerful?

Flemeth killed A LOT OF TEMPLARS, a lot of chasind, etc.

She isn't the paragon of good behavior on mages.

 

She helped the Grey Wardens because she wanted to get rid of Morrigan.

 

The only paragon of good behavior as a mage can be the inquisitor, Hawke or the hero of Ferelden.

Vivienne could be too, since everything she got wasn't because she was a mage, I would say the same of Wynne but she trying to kill the HoF and being an abomination doesn't help in the point mages are people.

 

Except Wynne didn't choose to be an abomination, remember? A spirit of faith saved her life.

[Catilina]

And you believe Flemeth is exactly... a nice person? a mage who didn't used her powers to be more powerful?

Flemeth killed A LOT OF TEMPLARS, a lot of chasind, etc.

She isn't the paragon of good behavior on mages.

 

She helped the Grey Wardens because she wanted to get rid of Morrigan.

"v. using her knowledge, power and immortality to become super queen of Thedas where no one can challenge her rule"

Did you played DA:I? when you do it darling, choose the dialogue option "Why you don't reveal yourself to everyone?"

 

The only paragon of good behavior as a mage can be the inquisitor, Hawke or the hero of Ferelden.

Vivienne could be too, since everything she got wasn't because she was a mage, I would say the same of Wynne but she trying to kill the HoF and being an abomination doesn't help in the point mages are people.

S/He did not say that Flemeth are "good" person. S/He said Flemeth was not a raving lunatic, who destroys everything around her, because she can not control her power. And not subjugate empires.

[Arshei]

Except Wynne didn't choose to be an abomination, remember? A spirit of faith saved her life.

 

As far as we know, Wynne could have been dead the whole time, and that could have been the spirit acting like her, as justice did with the guy in Awkening, and as justice did with Anders if he died.

And just how the demon did with Seeker Lucius, the demon in Uldred.

How the spirit does with Cole.