445 réponses à ce sujet

[Qis]

Both Zathrian and Flemeth are solid proof that The Chantry is DEAD WRONG. Both are Mages and immortal, one of them is an abomination, and they live a very loooooooong time. With all their power and immortality, none of what the Chatry claim about Mages apply to them.

 

Just imagine, being an immortal who live for thousand of years, if the Chantry is correct about Mages, then Ferelden is no more. Flemeth married with Zathrian, they will rule Thedas forever. No one can kill them and say anything about it

[Pasquale1234]

Isolde hired Jowan is because she don't want to send Connor to the Circle, in fact Connor will be fine even not tutored by any Mages and not learn any magic
 
Being born a Mage doesn't mean you have to learn magic, it is just out of fear Isolde hired a tutor for her son

Sorry, I disagree. Malcolm Hawke taught Bethany and mage Hawke, and what we know about magical accidents convinces me that they need training.
 

Not only the boatman, but also the innkeeper and those peoples hanging out there, they don't give a damn living near Mage Tower where all stuff happens

Which is a case against Chantry fear-mongering and the propaganda about propaganda I've read in this thread.
 

Why peoples don't stop seeing Mages as one faction, instead of seeing factions among them?

Oh, I see them as individuals first, but they all have one thing in common: magic. And that makes them much more powerful than mundanes.
 

That's why i said earlier this issue is tiresome in Dragon Age, it is totally bigotry at it's peak, Mage vs Templar is nothing other than sentiment and prejudice

Oh, threads like this one typically develop along those lines. If the exposure was only in the games themselves, and not also in threads like this, we might feel differently.

But I also think there are other thematic elements at work.

[Inkvisiittori]

Yes.

I don't care about it , what i care is to what Tevinter uses their slaves what i already mentioned earlier, plus i only spoke from theoretically from moral point of view.Not rly, legal abuse is worse than ilegall abuse, unless abuse is completly overlooked what isn't true for Orlais in that case.

 

Proof no, huge amount of evidence that you ignored from my last post in favor of something that isn't even supported by anything, also chantry on that speficic issue turned out to be almost completly correct with some details being wrong.

 

Eee, you know Lambert captured mages and their leaders and locked them up leaving them at his mercy until divine freed them what lead to said mages voting to go on war with templars.Plus, Kirkwall situation was brought under control by templars no matter with who did you side with.

 

Hmm, I didn't remember he actually said that. Still, we only have Solas' word and they were his enemies. We don't really know anything about that time to say for sure what was really going on.

 

Only evidence you have is what Chantry says about the matter. And like I already said they are the most unreliable source of accurate information there could be (especially when it comes to magic). Corypheus actually was there in those ancient days when it all happened. Why would he lie to himself about it in his own memories?

 

You mean templars let the mages walk with Hawke if you sided with them or slaughtered anyone because their insane Knight-Commander told them to? What a wonderful solution. Further proof that templars with their lyrium addled brains are unsuited to look after the mages. Only thing they're good at is kill when told to. Arm of the Chantry, a mindless weapon to frighten their enemies, to be discarded when the lyrium destroys what remains of their brains, that's all they'll ever be. 

[Arshei]

Both Zathrian and Flemeth are solid proof that The Chantry is DEAD WRONG. Both are Mages and immortal, one of them is an abomination, and they live a very loooooooong time. With all their power and immortality, none of what the Chatry claim about Mages apply to them.

 

Just imagine, being an immortal who live for thousand of years, if the Chantry is correct about Mages, then Ferelden is no more. Flemeth married with Zathrian, they will rule Thedas forever. No one can kill them and say anything about it

 

Then the only option we have is burn Flemeth alive, she is dangerous and I am jealous of her, why can't I live forever and be such a GILF?

[Almila_Lavellan]

As far as we know, Wynne could have been dead the whole time, and that could have been the spirit acting like her, as justice did with the guy in Awkening, and as justice did with Anders if he died.

And just how the demon did with Seeker Lucius, the demon in Uldred.

How the spirit does with Cole.

 

If Wynne was dead, her body would start decaying. Also, her story ends in Asunder which she really dies in it.

Justice was trapped in a corpse because of the Baroness.

There's nothing that indicates if Anders dies Justice controls his body?

[Pasquale1234]

Mages are locked up in towers, watched 24/7 by heavily armed drug addicts and constantly told how they're dangerous and cursed. And you don't think that's degrading? Do you remember Keili in the Mage Origin and Broken Circle quest in DA:O? She's one of the mages you meet where you find Wynne...and ends up believing whole-heartedly that mages are evil and deserve to die because they somehow committed an offense against the Maker that caused him to curse them at birth with being a mage. She should be the poster child for chantry/templar brainwashing toxicity (unless you seriously believe that Keili arrived at those thoughts entirely on her own).

You'd have a much better case if that sentiment was ubiquitous among Circle mages - but it isn't. The other mages we meet in Ferelden's Circle seem to be relatively healthy emotionally. For all we know, Kelli might have picked that up from her parents or someone else before she ever entered the Circle. Or... maybe a demon was pestering her.

[Qis]

Sorry, I disagree. Malcolm Hawke taught Bethany and mage Hawke, and what we know about magical accidents convinces me that they need training.

 

I don't think Mages really need to learn magic, they are not mutants who are unstable like X-Men, they don't need to control their power even, and i believe it is better for them not learning any spells. Learning more is what make them more powerful isn't it?

 

So stop teaching Mages magic if that is the problem

 

 

Oh, threads like this one typically develop along those lines. If the exposure was only in the games themselves, and not also in threads like this, we might feel differently.

But I also think there are other thematic elements at work.

 

The problem is it becomes the main theme, unlike DA:O it just a sub-quest and not really related to what the player stance between Mages and Templar, the player only making choice based on what being shown with only little infos regrading the Tower, and only a little bias if playing Mage Origin.

 

DA2 shoving up the sentiment too much for my taste

[TheKomandorShepard]

Idol was mostly destroyed (but not all of it) but now thanks to it people know about Red Lyrium. It's no longer forgotten. Eventually more of it would've been found and brought to the surface. Like I said it was only the matter of time. And now at last everyone knows about it.

 

Yes there is evidence. Corypheus speaks about it in his memories. According to him Chantry claims they brought darkness into this world, when they in fact merely discovered it. There is a difference. 

It was destroyed into small pieces at best minimal danger.Also only person that knew about it's location to my knowledge was Biance (Varric told her) and grey wardens(and even im not sure if they knew).Without someone to control it unlikely would spread let alone to the surface.

 

Where he said he didn't bring it back, did he actually said that he didn't bring it to our world (if so then link) or you are once again being intellectually dishonest?

 

 

Hmm, I didn't remember he actually said that. Still, we only have Solas' word and they were his enemies. We don't really know anything about that time to say for sure what was really going on.

 

Only evidence you have is what Chantry says about the matter. And like I already said they are the most unreliable source of accurate information there could be (especially when it comes to magic). Corypheus actually was there in those ancient days when it all happened. Why would he lie to himself about it in his own memories?

 

You mean templars let the mages walk with Hawke if you sided with them or slaughtered anyone because their insane Knight-Commander told them to? What a wonderful solution. Further proof that templars with their lyrium addled brains are unsuited to look after the mages. Only thing their good at is kill when told to. Arm of the Chantry, a mindless weapon to frighten their enemies, to be discarded when the lyrium destroys what remains of their brains, that's all they'll ever be. 

True but as far we have only his opinion on this mather and Elven gods weren't exactly bastions of sanity as Mythal, some stories and their whole empire supports that.

 

Once again false, your extreme bias is showing here to the point you ignore everything i say here.I made it clear chantry was almost completly correct when it comes to this part of the story, and all evidence supports what they are saying.Now you are stomping with your feet and saying chantry is wrong because i don't like what they are saying.Corypheus in fact only reinforced what chantry story and that throne was empty and it was already corrupted, rest of the story was completely spot on and match with evidence

 

Yep, but most likely many mages either were captured or returned to the cricles on their own in mage scenario.As for templar scenario, you are being darma queen problem was solved RoA was finished and city was saved.Plus, your bias is showing there were only few templars that addiction symptomes showed up and none where it was dangerous to another person.

[Arshei]

I don't think Mages really need to learn magic, they are not mutants who are unstable like X-Men, they don't need to control their power even, and i believe it is better for them not learning any spells. Learning more is what make them more powerful isn't it?

 

So stop teaching Mages magic if that is the problem

 

Wow... just... wow...

 

 

If Wynne was dead, her body would start decaying. Also, her story ends in Asunder which she really dies in it.

Justice was trapped in a corpse because of the Baroness.

There's nothing that indicates if Anders dies Justice controls his body?

 

Books, Comics, etc aren't canon.

In Awkening Anders can die.

[Pasquale1234]

I don't think Mages really need to learn magic, they are not mutants who are unstable like X-Men, they don't need to control their power even, and i believe it is better for them not learning any spells. Learning more is what make them more powerful isn't it?
 
So stop teaching Mages magic if that is the problem

We've already been through all of this. Mage children are usually identified because of some magical accident, which will continue to happen until they learn to control it.

If you'd rather they didn't receive training, I guess we'll just agree to disagree - but I also think it's good for them to be exposed to other people who are like them.
 

The problem is it becomes the main theme, unlike DA:O it just a sub-quest and not really related to what the player stance between Mages and Templar, the player only making choice based on what being shown with only little infos regrading the Tower, and only a little bias if playing Mage Origin.
 
DA2 shoving up the sentiment too much for my taste

I agree that it's been waaaay over-emphasized.

[Qis]

We've already been through all of this. Mage children are usually identified because of some magical accident, which will continue to happen until they learn to control it.

If you'd rather they didn't receive training, I guess we'll just agree to disagree - but I also think it's good for them to be exposed to other people who are like them.

 

As you can see in the game mechanic itself, Mage character become more powerful when level up and learning more spells. At level 1 having only few spells ad it's nothing, all low level spells are weak spells

 

So if not teaching Mages more magic, isn't that making them not powerful? Surely children won't conjure up huge fireball, they don't even have enough mana and they never learn it

[Almila_Lavellan]

Wow... just... wow...

 

 

 

Books, Comics, etc aren't canon.

In Awkening Anders can die.

 

He doesn't die, he uses decoy to escape from the darkspawn.

[Arshei]

He doesn't die, he uses decoy to escape from the darkspawn.

 

You trust a demon who blew up a chantry instead of the epilogue of DA:A, Nathaniel and Stroud?

I shouldn't be surprised, you aren't very smart.

[Pasquale1234]

As you can see in the game mechanic itself, Mage character become more powerful when level up and learning more spells. At level 1 having only few spells ad it's nothing, all low level spells are weak spells
 
So if not teaching Mages more magic, isn't that making them not powerful? Surely children won't conjure up huge fireball, they don't even have enough mana and they never learn it

I don't conflate game combat mechanics with world lore. It makes no sense to believe that Solas would suddenly learn a lightning spell just because he's been hanging out with the Inquisitor for awhile. Solas should already know every spell available - as should Vivienne and Dorian, too, for that matter.

Some of the older cRPGs I've played way back when, you had to go into town and visit the guild and pay for training to learn a new ability - and even then, you wouldn't always learn it successfully. But the entire team was composed of newly created characters - they weren't well-trained, experienced folks like the Inquisitor's team. I mean, Varric knew the ropes back when he was traveling with Hawke...

If mage children don't learn to cast a controlled fireball, they'll go around setting things on fire unintentionally.

[Qis]

I don't conflate game combat mechanics with world lore. It makes no sense to believe that Solas would suddenly learn a lightning spell just because he's been hanging out with the Inquisitor for awhile. Solas should already know every spell available - as should Vivienne and Dorian, too, for that matter.

Some of the older cRPGs I've played way back when, you had to go into town and visit the guild and pay for training to learn a new ability - and even then, you wouldn't always learn it successfully. But the entire team was composed of newly created characters - they weren't well-trained, experienced folks like the Inquisitor's team. I mean, Varric knew the ropes back when he was traveling with Hawke...

If mage children don't learn to cast a controlled fireball, they'll go around setting things on fire unintentionally.

 

But it is not possible for Mages know spells without learning them, they must learn spells to conjure them up. As they have to learn Blood Magic in order to conjure, without access to such knowledge they wont be able to conjure Blood Magic.

 

It is an irony when the Chantry fear Mages become too powerful, but they allow Mages gain access to magical knowledge, even Blood Magic. Jowan learn Blood Magic through books in the library, that's the reason irving empty it out into his room.

 

Without access to knowledge, Mages don't know how to conjure up spells.

[Inkvisiittori]

It was destroyed into small pieces at best minimal danger.Also only person that knew about it's location to my knowledge was Biance (Varric told her) and grey wardens(and even im not sure if they knew).Without someone to control it unlikely would spread let alone to the surface.

 

Where there is will, there is a way. Bianca was the one who told Corypheus about it. If it hadn't been Corypheus then it would have been someone else. It's powerful stuff and remains a threat especially now that everyone knows it exists and has seen what it can do.

 

Where he said he didn't bring it back, did he actually said that he didn't bring it to our world (if so then link) or you are once again being intellectually dishonest?

 

Here's what he said (from the sidequest Under Her Skin): "Did the others never return from the Black City? There is no record even of our names! We are vilified by legend. They spit on our deeds and claim we brought darkness into the world. We discovered the darkness. We claimed it as our own, let it permeate our being. If the others have not returned, they are lost. I am alone in my glory."

 

By the way, speaking about the Blights, don't forget it is thanks to Tevinter mages and magic that the joining ritual and therefore Grey Warden's were created. Without them Dumat would have destroyed the world.

 

True but as far we have only his opinion on this mather and Elven gods weren't exactly bastions of sanity as Mythal, some stories and their whole empire supports that.

 

Many rulers are insane. That doesn't mean they are actually a threat to the whole world. 

 

Once again false, your extreme bias is showing here to the point you ignore everything i say here.I made it clear chantry was almost completly correct when it comes to this part of the story, and all evidence supports what they are saying.Now you are stomping with your feet and saying chantry is wrong because i don't like what they are saying.Corypheus in fact only reinforced what chantry story and that throne was empty and it was already corrupted, rest of the story was completely spot on and match with evidence

 

Chantry takes historical evidence and twists it to serve their own purpose. That is what it has always done. It was already corrupted thus the taint already existed in the world. So Chantry's fairytale about Maker punishing the entire world for a few's sin is clearly incorrect. 

 

Yep, but most likely many mages either were captured or returned to the cricles on their own in mage scenario.As for templar scenario, you are being darma queen problem was solved RoA was finished and city was saved.Plus, your bias is showing there were only few templars that addiction symptomes showed up and none where it was dangerous to another person.

 

If they followed Hawke they didn't end up captured or returned to the Circles. They joined the mage rebellion. Hawke was there to help other Circle's rebel as well. All templars are addicted to lyrium - that's why they call it the Chantry's leash. Chantry exploits that addiction because it gives them control of an army of elite soldiers. Templars are a danger. They lack free will and as we have already seen anyone can exploit that to make them a dangerous weapon. 

 

Everything I have said before proves that templars are an abomination and their Order should be disbanded for good. Mages can look after themselves (like in the times of Dales when Fade Hunters would defend the Kindgom against demons or maleficar) - they don't need the templars, or the Chantry or anyone. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Where there is will, there is a way. Bianca was the one who told Corypheus about it. If it hadn't been Corypheus then it would have been someone else. It's powerful stuff and remains a threat especially now that everyone knows it exists and has seen what it can do.

 

 

Here's what he said (from the sidequest Under Her Skin): "Did the others never return from the Black City? There is no record even of our names! We are vilified by legend. They spit on our deeds and claim we brought darkness into the world. We discovered the darkness. We claimed it as our own, let it permeate our being. If the others have not returned, they are lost. I am alone in my glory."

 

By the way, speaking about the Blights, don't forget it is thanks to Tevinter mages and magic that the joining ritual and therefore Grey Warden's were created. Without them Dumat would have destroyed the world.

 

 

Many rulers are insane. That doesn't mean they are actually a threat to the whole world. 

 

 

Chantry takes historical evidence and twists it to serve their own purpose. That is what it has always done. It was already corrupted thus the taint already existed in the world. So Chantry's fairytale about Maker punishing the entire world for a few's sin is clearly incorrect. 

 

 

If they followed Hawke they didn't end up captured or returned to the Circles. They joined the mage rebellion. Hawke was there to help other Circle's rebel as well. All templars are addicted to lyrium - that's why they call it the Chantry's leash. Chantry exploits that addiction because it gives them control of an army of elite soldiers. Templars are a danger. They lack free will and as we have already seen anyone can exploit that to make them a dangerous weapon. 

 

Everything I have said before proves that templars are an abomination and their Order should be disbanded for good. Mages can look after themselves (like in the times of Dales when Fade Hunters would defend the Kindgom against demons or maleficar) - they don't need the templars, or the Chantry or anyone. 

 

1.No evidence of that, once again your wishful thinking.Without someone with ability to control red lyrium and desire to spread it on the surface at best they manage to bring some of it it at most elementary level.As i said it was not until Corypheus actions lead to (Breach) red lyrium showing up on the surface.

 

2.That is hardly a denial of that, if something it is admission that they did found a blight and turned into a darkspawn.

 

3.Redundant, if not mages in first place there wouldn't be this fire , so pretty much they helped to extinguish they have started and still is burning.

 

4.Many rules also aren't extremely powerful beings. As far it goes Solas claim is at least somewhat supported by other things.

 

5.Except chantry here once again was almost entirely correct.That chantry made up some other historical events doesn't equatate that they are wrong concerning historical event that they were shown mostly correct.The maker part is irrelevant because it is just religious stuff, what is revelant that chantry was right on everything else in that story, Magister trip to the fade, Magister motive,Old god involvement, Maigsters reaching black city, Magisters getting corrupted by the blight and logical conclusion that isn't contested by anything in the series is that they brought it

 

6.Mage rebelion started 3 years later RoA in Kirkwall, before that as i have said they were most likely captured or returned to the circles themselves.

 

7.You didn't prove anything, all you did is complain that Templars invoked RoA in what they were right considering tremendous corruption and use of blood magic in this circle and use slurs against that doesn't mean much in reality (addiction).We already had fairy tales about how great Arlathan was, i expect same for Dales.Plus as Dalish evidence they suck when it comes to controling their mages and vast majority of clans we encountered faced horrible fate because of their mages.Every group of free mages have proven they are threat to at least own society.

[Akiza]

 

3.Redundant, if not mages in first place there wouldn't be this fire , so pretty much they helped to extinguish they have started and still is burning.

 

 

I agree it's like saying that if it wasn't for the anchor the breach would have destroyed the world......but if mages never existed we would have never saw this problem in the first place.Thanks GoD mages does not exist IRL.

@Inviksittori the joining was no created by mages Lol but by a warrior clan and Lol the lyrium is not fundamental for it

[Inkvisiittori]

1.No evidence of that, once again your wishful thinking.Without someone with ability to control red lyrium and desire to spread it on the surface at best they manage to bring some of it it at most elementary level.As i said it was not until Corypheus actions lead to (Breach) red lyrium showing up on the surface.

 

You have no evidence it wouldn't have been eventually found. Fact remains it existed and was rediscovered before Corypheus escaped from Grey Warden prison.

 

2.That is hardly a denial of that, if something it is admission that they did found a blight and turned into a darkspawn.

 

No. They discovered something that already existed. They became tainted just like how the Wardens are tainted and eventually become darkspawn themselves. The Magisters were not the cause of Blights - darkspawn, the taint and the Old Gods existed before them. Shortly after the Magisters entered the Black City the darkspawn were finally able to find the sleeping dragon of Dumat. If anything - like with the Red Lyrium - the magisters merely speed up something that was inevitably going to happen sooner or later anyway.

 

3.Redundant, if not mages in first place there wouldn't be this fire , so pretty much they helped to extinguish they have started and still is burning.

 

There is no evidence mages caused the Blight - like I have already explained to you. 

 

4.Many rules also aren't extremely powerful beings. As far it goes Solas claim is at least somewhat supported by other things.

 

Lets assume you are correct and the Evanuris did plan to destroy the entire world. Then it was Solas - a mage - who stopped them. 

 

5.Except chantry here once again was almost entirely correct.That chantry made up some other historical events doesn't equatate that they are wrong concerning historical event that they were shown mostly correct.The maker part is irrelevant because it is just religious stuff, what is revelant that chantry was right on everything else in that story, Magister trip to the fade, Magister motive,Old god involvement, Maigsters reaching black city, Magisters getting corrupted by the blight and logical conclusion that isn't contested by anything in the series is that they brought it

 

The Chantry teaches that magic is something that should be feared and hated. They claim that the Maker created the Blight as a punishment for the Magisters who entered the Black City. That is incorrect. They are using false information as propaganda to justify their oppression of mages.

 

6.Mage rebelion started 3 years later RoA in Kirkwall, before that as i have said they were most likely captured or returned to the circles themselves.

 

Mage rebellion didn't officially begin until three years later - doesn't mean secret movement wasn't already there. Escaped mages living as apostates somewhere. Templars had their hands full with more and more mage uprisings all over the world and probably had no time to track them down. They were preparing for a war and would likely rather die fighting than return to the Circle's where they would most likely have been made tranquil.

 

7.You didn't prove anything, all you did is complain that Templars invoked RoA in what they were right considering tremendous corruption and use of blood magic in this circle and use slurs against that doesn't mean much in reality (addiction).We already had fairy tales about how great Arlathan was, i expect same for Dales.

 

And why was there tremendous corruption and blood magic (as you say) in the first place, hmm? Oh yes, because of Knight-Commander Meredith and her insane methods. Kirkwall's templar order failed completely in their duty to protect the mages and the innocent people of Kirkwall paid the price (as usual). "Fairytales" about Arlathan existed because the elves were enslaved by humans, their culture and history erased. Nothing like that happened with Dales - the dalish remained free and were able to keep their own culture. "We are the Dalish: keepers of the lost lore, walkers of the lonely path. We are the last of the Elvhenan and never again shall we submit."

 

There is no reason why they would have forgotten the history of Dales (especially when it's their purpose to remember and rediscover what was once lost) and have to make fairytales about it. You can't even compare what happened with Arlathan to what happened with Dales.

 

Plus as Dalish evidence they suck when it comes to controling their mages and vast majority of clans we encountered faced horrible fate because of their mages.Every group of free mages have proven they are threat to at least own society.

 

You can blame the Chantry for that. They were the ones who declared Exalted March upon Dales and forced the Dalish into exile. They live under harsh conditions and sometimes make desperate choices. How is Circles handling of magic any better, anyway? Ferelden's Circle was overrun with demons, Kirkwall was full of bloodmages, a circle mage blew up Kirkwall's Chantry, Chantry's mismanagement caused the mage-templar rebellion that killed thousands of innocent, etc. This is clearly an evidence that the Circles are useless and dangerous, and so are the templars and the Chantry. They have done nothing but make things worse.

[Akiza]

You have no evidence it wouldn't have been eventually found. Fact remains it existed and was rediscovered before Corypheus escaped from Grey Warden prison.

 

 

The Red Lyrium is a rare substance that is not even known among the merchant guild of Orzammar and their entire business is lyrium.

The absurd quantity you saw in DAI is a by product of the breach.

 

 

No. They discovered something that already existed. They became tainted just like how the Wardens are tainted and eventually become darkspawn themselves. The Magisters were not the cause of Blights - darkspawn, the taint and the Old Gods existed before them. Shortly after the Magisters entered the Black City the darkspawn were finally able to find the sleeping dragon of Dumat. If anything - like with the Red Lyrium - the magisters merely speed up something that was inevitably going to happen sooner or later anyway.

 

The Magisters are responsible for the blights ,that the taint predate their siege does not mean anything because they are the one who unleashed it from the black city,if they didn't started their stupid journey no Archdemon would have ever existed.

[TheKomandorShepard]

You have no evidence it wouldn't have been eventually found. Fact remains it existed and was rediscovered before Corypheus escaped from Grey Warden prison.

 

 

No. They discovered something that already existed. They became tainted just like how the Wardens are tainted and eventually become darkspawn themselves. The Magisters were not the cause of Blights - darkspawn, the taint and the Old Gods existed before them. Shortly after the Magisters entered the Black City the darkspawn were finally able to find the sleeping dragon of Dumat. If anything - like with the Red Lyrium - the magisters merely speed up something that was inevitably going to happen sooner or later anyway.

 

 

There is no evidence mages caused the Blight - like I have already explained to you. 

 

 

Lets assume you are correct and the Evanuris did plan to destroy the entire world. Then it was Solas - a mage - who stopped them. 

 

 

The Chantry teaches that magic is something that should be feared and hated. They claim that the Maker created the Blight as a punishment for the Magisters who entered the Black City. That is incorrect. They are using false information as propaganda to justify their oppression of mages.

 

 

Mage rebellion didn't officially begin until three years later - doesn't mean secret movement wasn't already there. Escaped mages living as apostates somewhere. Templars had their hands full with more and more mage uprisings all over the world and probably had no time to track them down. They were preparing for a war and would likely rather die fighting than return to the Circle's where they would most likely have been made tranquil.

 

 

And why was there tremendous corruption and blood magic (as you say) in the first place, hmm? Oh yes, because of Knight-Commander Meredith and her insane methods. Kirkwall's templar order failed completely in their duty to protect the mages and the innocent people of Kirkwall paid the price (as usual). "Fairytales" about Arlathan existed because the elves were enslaved by humans, their culture and history erased. Nothing like that happened with Dales - the dalish remained free and were able to keep their own culture. "We are the Dalish: keepers of the lost lore, walkers of the lonely path. We are the last of the Elvhenan and never again shall we submit."

 

There is no reason why they would have forgotten the history of Dales (especially when it's their purpose to remember and rediscover what was once lost) and have to make fairytales about it. You can't even compare what happened with Arlathan to what happened with Dales.

 

 

You can blame the Chantry for that. They were the ones who declared Exalted March upon Dales and forced the Dalish into exile. They live under harsh conditions and sometimes make desperate choices. How is Circles handling of magic any better, anyway? Ferelden's Circle was overrun with demons, Kirkwall was full of bloodmages, a circle mage blew up Kirkwall's Chantry, Chantry's mismanagement caused the mage-templar rebellion that killed thousands of innocent, etc. This is clearly an evidence that the Circles are useless and dangerous, and so are the templars and the Chantry. They have done nothing but make things worse.

 

1.It doesn't matter whether it would be found or not, it was safe on the deep roads over 1000+ years, even if they have found it as i have said it is extremely unlikely it would spread on the surface.Im once again forced to repeat myself because you don't listen to what im saying. 

 

2.You don't even bother to listen what im saying.You are making baseless and usupported by anything logic leaps.Once again even if taint did exist before in the black city magisters unleashed it onto Thedas, there is no shred of evidence that it existed in Thedas before and you jump with your inane logic that if taint existed somewhere before and old gods existed before therfore darkspawn always existed in Thedas.

 

There is tons of evidence i pointed it out, stomping with your feet and saying there is no evidence won't change a fact there is once again plenty of evidence.This is ridiculous.

 

3.Once again redundant a threat that was created by a mages, so once again problem that wouldn't exist if not mages.

 

4.Did you even bother to listen? Once again, chantry teaches nothing but facts about mages and that is that magic is dangerous.The maker part is irrelevant here because it has nothing to do with mage problem, that fact is that chantry was correct about magisters going to the black city and rest of the story concerning mages. You are creating a false and biased narrative chantry doesn't teach to hate mages as in first place chantry calls magic a gift as well curse, if someone looks at the chant and comes to such conclusion that is because mages provided a lot of good reason to hate them inside the chant and even more outside it.

 

5.Templars functioned more or less as always as we can see in Asunder and by that they went to restore order in Kirkwall.There were no uprisings until Mage templar war if i remember correctly(only exception was Circle in Rivain when seekers discovered it's nature).

 

6.That some powerful apologetics that are incorrect in first place.The only one who turned out into an abomnation because of templars was Evelina.Rest of the mages made turned into blood magic because of their failings.No one forced Orsino to aid madman in his illegal experiments, no one forced Grace, her boyfriend and her companions into using blood magic, Grace wanted irrational revenge on Hawke. Besides if mages are unable to handle hardships of life without reaching to blood magic and becoming an abomnation it only reinforces position that they should be locked up

 

LoL, you mean just like they remembered who started a war and events around it? Dalish are special kind of people know nothing know it all.Plus, if they were soo good at handling mages how it comes they have tremendous rate of screwing up with mages and endangering their community?

 

7.Sorry, but no Chantry isn't responsible for Dalish mages failings.Plus mages failing weren't even matter of survival in desperate times just about dalish being reckless and/or abusing their magic.Circles did much better job, Ferelden circle was contained before it become danger to the rest of the society , while Kirkwall circle had little worse rate with RoA they still would exterminate mages and bring order to the Krikwall.Plus chantry mismanagement Justinia fault for going against Templars and main purpose of the circles breaking current system.So your theory that most effective system when it comes to protecting world from mages (debatable as one can argue qunari system) is useless is extremly biased.

 

[Catilina]

[...]

5.Templars functioned more or less as always as we can see in Asunder and by that they went to restore order in Kirkwall.There were no uprisings until Mage templar war if i remember correctly(only exception was Circle in Rivain when seekers discovered it's nature).

[...]

If the order mean repression/slavery, I prefer the chaos. 

Pro-mage Hawke also wanted to restore order in Kirkwall, but not with this lumatic woman and her servants. 

If it has not had the Mage–Templar war, so it was time.

Modifié par Catilina, hier, 12:56 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

If the order mean slavery, I prefer the chaos. 

Pro-mage Hawke also wanted to restore order in Kirkwall, but not with this lumatic woman and her servants. 

If it has not had the Mage–Templar war, so it was time.

It is hardly slavery , it is imprisonment or purging "infected" depending to what you refer.Plus, chaos is most of the time much worse, because of lack of restriction on human behavior.

 

Pro-mage Hawke was stupid and should learn how to establish order and that is first rule should be to not unleash walking nuclear bombs onto society

[Catilina]

It is hardly slavery , it is imprisonment or purging "infected" depending to what you refer.Plus, chaos is most of the time much worse, because of lack of restriction on human behavior.

 

Pro-mage Hawke was stupid and should learn how to establish order and that is first rule should be to not unleash walking nuclear bombs onto society

Puring? Infected? Walking nuclear bombs? We still talk about people, even if virtual ones, not misconfigured, mindless machines ...

[Inkvisiittori]

1.It doesn't matter whether it would be found or not, it was safe on the deep roads over 1000+ years, even if they have found it as i have said it is extremely unlikely it would spread on the surface.Im once again forced to repeat myself because you don't listen to what im saying. 

 

 

I'm listening - are you? It had already resurfaced. People already knew about it because of Meredith. They could have easily traveled to the Deep Roads to try to find more of it (now they don't have to because it has spread on surface and everyone knows about it. Yes, that was thanks to Corypheus as is the fact everyone now knows how powerful it is - there will be many who wish to harness it's power to their own use).

 

2.You don't even bother to listen what im saying.You are making baseless and usupported by anything logic leaps.Once again even if taint did exist before in the black city magisters unleashed it onto Thedas, there is no shred of evidence that it existed in Thedas before and you jump with your inane logic that if taint existed somewhere before and old gods existed before therfore darkspawn always existed in Thedas.

 

There is tons of evidence i pointed it out, stomping with your feet and saying there is no evidence won't change a fact there is once again plenty of evidence.This is ridiculous.

 

Where's your evidence that darkspawn didn't exist before Corypheus & his comrades entered the Fade? Just because no one knew about them (or at least no records have been found) doesn't mean they didn't exist. 

 

3.Once again redundant a threat that was created by a mages, so once again problem that wouldn't exist if not mages.

 

In the time of Elvhenan elves ruled the world. They were immortal and all of them had magic. There is no mention of any other races existing back then. So if all of them had magic and you say that if there had been no mages there would have been no problem - then no, then there would have been no problem, because no one would have even existed to create the problem. Is that the final solution? Empty world with no one alive?

 

4.Did you even bother to listen? Once again, chantry teaches nothing but facts about mages and that is that magic is dangerous.The maker part is irrelevant here because it has nothing to do with mage problem, that fact is that chantry was correct about magisters going to the black city and rest of the story concerning mages. You are creating a false and biased narrative chantry doesn't teach to hate mages as in first place chantry calls magic a gift as well curse, if someone looks at the chant and comes to such conclusion that is because mages provided a lot of good reason to hate them inside the chant and even more outside it.

 

Magic isn't inherently dangerous. It only matters how it is used. Or do you see even healing magic as dangerous? Just like soldiers: you can use soldiers to protect the land or you can use them to attack and invade it. Good & Evil are choices everyone makes - not only mages. Chantry has used it's power for evil. There is clear evidence that Chantry has lied numerous times for it's own benefit - like I have pointed out to you before. Magisters went to the Black City - this is a fact. What happened there and what happened afterwards - gossips and rumors, nothing more. Only thing that is certainty is that shortly after the First Blight began - that could have been a coincidence or like I already explained, merely something that speed up a process that was already taking place, rather than the cause of it.

 

5.Templars functioned more or less as always as we can see in Asunder and by that they went to restore order in Kirkwall.There were no uprisings until Mage templar war if i remember correctly(only exception was Circle in Rivain when seekers discovered it's nature).

 

They knew a war was brewing. They were trying to control the mages but it was inevitable that the situation would get out of hand. Unless you have proof there is no reason to believe the mages would willingly submit to the Templars and return to the Circle (not after the insane slaughter they had witnessed and barely escaped from).

 

6.That some powerful apologetics that are incorrect in first place.The only one who turned out into an abomnation because of templars was Evelina.Rest of the mages made turned into blood magic because of their failings.No one forced Orsino to aid madman in his illegal experiments, no one forced Grace, her boyfriend and her companions into using blood magic, Grace wanted irrational revenge on Hawke. Besides if mages are unable to handle hardships of life without reaching to blood magic and becoming an abomnation it only reinforces position that they should be locked up

 

LoL, you mean just like they remembered who started a war and events around it? Dalish are special kind of people know nothing know it all.Plus, if they were soo good at handling mages how it comes they have tremendous rate of screwing up with mages and endangering their community?

 

They were mistreated their all life. Having to live in fear of the templars, witnessing and being subjected to terrible abuses, treated like animals instead of human beings. I'm not surprised at all that so many of them turned to blood magic - it was their last weapon against their oppressors. Chantry has created this mess - they were the ones who began to lock mages in Towers and made the templars their guardians. The system has failed so many times that there is no recovery. If they had just let the mages be and not constantly preach to everyone how evil and dangerous magic is - then most of them would have lived their life with no trouble, just normal farmers or merchants. But the Chantry meddled and this is the result.

 

Red Crossing would never have happened if the humans and the Chantry - once again - had just let them be. There were provocations on both side. And both blamed each other. Even if specifics had been lost to history, that doesn't mean they know nothing. They still remember more than most. The games and books have only shown us the negative side of the dalish - there hasn't been enough positive examples. There are dalish clans almost everywhere in Thedas and they are quite numerous - that wouldn't be the case if every other Keeper turned into an abomination and slaughtered their clans. There are much more examples of Chantry and the Circle screwing up anyway - but you're apparently ignoring that. 

 

7.Sorry, but no Chantry isn't responsible for Dalish mages failings.Plus mages failing weren't even matter of survival in desperate times just about dalish being reckless and/or abusing their magic.Circles did much better job, Ferelden circle was contained before it become danger to the rest of the society , while Kirkwall circle had little worse rate with RoA they still would exterminate mages and bring order to the Krikwall.Plus chantry mismanagement Justinia fault for going against Templars and main purpose of the circles breaking current system.So your theory that most effective system when it comes to protecting world from mages (debatable as one can argue qunari system) is useless is extremly biased.

 

They are responsible for invading and destroying the Dales and sending the elves to exile (or practically enslaving those who stayed). That is a horrendous crime - there is no justification. They will one day pay for it if there is any justice in the world - and when they do that won't be pretty. Inquisition made it quite obvious how horribly the Chantry failed - both their mages and their templars rebelling, killing people left and right as the world burned around them! Chantry lost all power and paid the price for it. They lost the peoples faith - thankfully Inquisition was there to clean up their mess.