You trust a demon who blew up a chantry instead of the epilogue of DA:A, Nathaniel and Stroud?
I shouldn't be surprised, you aren't very smart.
Arlik did fine job, he protected people of Kirkwall, plus Arlic had very good idea how to solve this problem.If something Thrask attitude was problematic.
It does, but once again he was one that distributed on the surface.Until Corypheus distrubuted it on the surface it wasn't much of the problem.Why chantry would lock in the tower people that aren't much of the threat to the population, plus chantry turned on Templars first, specifically Justinia.
Hmm, I had not noticed before. So you think, Alric a positive character. I got it. Okay. The rape is a good way to discipline and punishment.
Healthy perceptions.
I do have to say, it's quite funny to see certain posts sort of confirm my main point in my own posts.
That said, I feel this thread has started to deviate from discussing the portrayal of mages and templars to the generic mage and templar discussion.
Not that I mind, it's been an interesting read so far 
Puring? Infected? Walking nuclear bombs? We still talk about people, even if virtual ones, not misconfigured, mindless machines ...
Infected aren't people? Plus fact they are people lead to adding walking before nuclear bombs.
I'm listening - are you? It had already resurfaced. People already knew about it because of Meredith. They could have easily traveled to the Deep Roads to try to find more of it (now they don't have to because it has spread on surface and everyone knows about it. Yes, that was thanks to Corypheus as is the fact everyone now knows how powerful it is - there will be many who wish to harness it's power to their own use).
Where's you're evidence that darkspawn didn't exist before Corypheus & his comrades entered the Fade? Just because no one knew about them (or at least no records have been found) doesn't mean they didn't exist.
In the time of Elvhenan elves ruled the world. They were immortal and all of them had magic. There is no mention of any other races existing back then. So if all of them had magic and you say that if there had been no mages there had been no problem - then no, then there would have been no problem, because no one would have even existed to create the problem. Is that the final solution? Empty world with no one alive?
Magic isn't inherently dangerous. It only matters how it is used. Or do you see even healing magic as dangerous? Just like soldiers: you can use soldiers to protect the land or you can use them to attack and invade it. Good & Evil are choices everyone makes - not only mages. Chantry has used it's power for evil. There is clear evidence that Chantry has lied numerous times for it's own benefit - like I have pointed out to you before. Magisters went to the Black City - this is a fact. What happened there and what happened afterwards - gossips and rumors, nothing more. Only thing that is certainty is that shortly after the First Blight began - that could have been a coincidence or like I already explained, merely something that speed up a process that was already taking place, rather than the cause of it.
They knew a war was brewing. They were trying to control the mages but it was inevitable that the situation would get out of hand. Unless you have proof there is no reason to believe the mages would willingly submit to the Templars and return to the Circle (not after the insane slaughter they had witnessed and barely escaped from).
They were mistreated their all life. Having to live in fear of the templars, witnessing and being subjected to terrible abuses, treated like animals instead of human beings. I'm not surprised at all that so many of them turned to blood magic - it was their last weapon against their oppressors. Chantry has created this mess - they were the ones who began to lock mages in Towers and made the templars their guardians. The system has failed so many times that there is no recovery. If they had just let the mages be and not constantly preach to everyone how evil and dangerous magic is - then most of them would have lived their life with no trouble, just normal farmers or merchants. But the Chantry meddled and this is the result.
Red Crossing would never have happened if the humans and the Chantry - once again - had just let them be. There were provocations on both side. And both blamed each other. Even if specifics had been lost to history, that doesn't mean they know nothing. They still remember more than most. The games and books have only shown us the negative side of the dalish - there hasn't been enough positive examples. There are dalish clans almost everywhere in Thedas and they are quite numerous - that wouldn't be the case if every other Keeper turned into an abomination and slaughtered their clans. There are much more examples of Chantry and the Circle screwing up anyway - but you're apparently ignoring that.
They are responsible for invading and destroying the Dales and sending the elves to exile (or practically enslaving those who stayed). That is a horrendous crime - there is no justification. They will one day pay for it if there is any justice in the world - and when they do that won't be pretty. Inquisition made it quite obvious how horribly the Chantry failed - both their mages and their templars rebelling, killing people left and right as the world burned around them! Chantry lost all power and paid the price for it. They lost the peoples faith - thankfully Inquisition was there to clean up their mess.
1.First of all, how they would knew from where Meredith would take red lyrium it wasn't a public knowledge.Second deep roads are incredibly dangerous and they wouldn't even have location of it.Third once again even if they did find it likability they would transport it on the surface and mantain regural occurrence would be incredibly low.Plus, red lyrium is a substance all you need to do is get rid of it on the surface, even if get rid most of it should be sufficient enough to decrease danger by large margin.
2.Evidence is simply lack of evidence that something was in case, while every source suggests otherwise.It is your job to prove existence of something, not mine to disprove it.
3.Problem was that mages existed even if everyone was a mage problem was still mages as they were still threat to world safety.Current Thedas have much less mages but problem are still mages that constantly threaten the world.Solution is simple remove mages from equation will/would largely decrease worlds problems.
4.Yes it is, magic or mages draw demons from the fade regardless of how they use their magicThen there is huge amount of potential for abuse and ignorance with disastrous effects.No it isn't just like a soldiers, i explained it many times soldiers are nowhere near as dangerous as mages, as evident that not a single non-mage created world-threatening disaster in the setting.How many times i will have to repeat same thing, just because chantry lied about some event deson't equatate to them being wrong here, sure it would diminish credibility of their statements overall but in that case Chantry was proven mostly correct by Corypheus and fate of magisters that went to the black city, chantry was spot one not only on events before they went to the black city but also after they went to the black city, with exception of maker part that Corypheus denied.Once again there is not a single piece of evidence that darkspawn existed in Thedas before, it is your purely wishful thinking.
5.Proof, no but it is reliable to think at least some returned on their own to the circles (As Varric pointed out many Kirkwall mages blamed Anders for situation) and considering public opinion about magic (if i recall there is war table mission where Leliana suggests let mages go so they can return after they see living outside circle is very hard and they return) it was sane thing to do.Then there is matter that most likely good deal of mages were recaptured.
6.It is not mistreating them to take reasonable precautions.- Cullen
Mages live in most luxurious places in Thedas, if that is mistreatment i want that to.There is a little evidence that Templars mistreat mages on any other basis than individual.Even in Kirkwall there were only 2 templars known of abusing mages.Plus, you completely ignore fact that chantry preaches as well that magic is a gift just to push your false narrative that you support with false claims and half-truths in order to invoke emotions of others so they join your narrative.
7.How exactly you jumped from Dalish whitewashing themselves in this war, spreading lies about Dales and war, to discussion who's guilt it was?Dalish don't know jack, their entire culture is based on lies and whitewashing their own failings.Considering that circles frame much more mages than dalish that deal only mostly with 2 mages per clan and that we spend much more time with the circles than dalish it is only understable, im not ignoring it im pretty sure i did acknowledge circle failings and lot of room for an improvment but compared to dalish circles at least contained it's outbreak at least until pro-mage divine send whole system to hell with her stupidity.
8.Orlais didn't invade Dales, stop spreading lies.Dales invaded Orlais and Orlais and chantry only retaliate for that.Unless you want to tell me that Orlais should just allow elves to kill and invade them it was very much justified.Chantry failed thanks to Justinia and Leliana that as i said sent entire system to hell.
Hmm, I had not noticed before. So you think, Alric a positive character. I got it. Okay. The rape is a good way to discipline and punishment.
Healthy perceptions.
If you ask if i would go and hang out with him on the party i would have to say no.If you ask if his idea concerning mages was good , yep i think so.Maybe, but i know tranquility for sure is.
5.Proof, no but it is reliable to think at least some returned on their own to the circles (As Varric pointed out many Kirkwall mages blamed Anders for situation) and considering public opinion about magic (if i recall there is war table mission where Leliana suggests let mages go so they can return after they see living outside circle is very hard and they return) it was sane thing to do.Then there is matter that most likely good deal of mages were recaptured.
6.It is not mistreating them to take reasonable precautions.- Cullen
Mages live in most luxurious places in Thedas, if that is mistreatment i want that to.There is a little evidence that Templars mistreat mages on any other basis than individual.Even in Kirkwall there were only 2 templars known of abusing mages.Plus, you completely ignore fact that chantry preaches as well that magic is a gift just to push your false narrative that you support with false claims and half-truths in order to invoke emotions of others so they join your narrative.
---
If you ask if i would go and hang out with him on the party i would have to say no.If you ask if his idea concerning mages was good , yep i think so.Maybe, but i know tranquility for sure is.
5. Have you ever heard about captives who can not find their place in the outside world?
6. Gold cage are still cage.
---
Sick.
5. Have you ever heard about captives who can not find their place in the outside world?
6. Gold cage are still cage.
---
Sick.
5.Good, because those captives have no place in outside word. 
6.Yes but it is pretty awesome cage to live in.
Nope, truth nothing sends a message like a good old RoT.
Ha! You ignore a fact about game. They explained Anders' death with it, just like they explained Leliana's death in Trespasser. If you like ignoring their explanation "smart" girl, you should stop playing games that have lore.
If the explanation isn't in game, then it didn't happened and Anders is dead ♥.
If the explanation isn't in game, then it didn't happened and Anders is dead ♥.
But it is not possible for Mages know spells without learning them, they must learn spells to conjure them up. As they have to learn Blood Magic in order to conjure, without access to such knowledge they wont be able to conjure Blood Magic.
It is an irony when the Chantry fear Mages become too powerful, but they allow Mages gain access to magical knowledge, even Blood Magic. Jowan learn Blood Magic through books in the library, that's the reason irving empty it out into his room.
Without access to knowledge, Mages don't know how to conjure up spells.
1.First of all, how they would knew from where Meredith would take red lyrium it wasn't a public knowledge.Second deep roads are incredibly dangerous and they wouldn't even have location of it.Third once again even if they did find it likability they would transport it on the surface and mantain regural occurrence would be incredibly low.Plus, red lyrium is a substance all you need to do is get rid of it on the surface, even if get rid most of it should be sufficient enough to decrease danger by large margin.
I already told you there were many people who knew the location - Bartrand and his cronies, Hawke and all his companions + Bianca. Any one of them could have told someone who would see a business opportunity - or like what actually happened; Bianca told Corypheus and that's how Red Lyrium spread to the surface. It's not impossible scenario to imagine - quite the opposite. Deep Roads are dangerous, but like I already said where there is a will, there is a way. Many people travel to Deep Roads all the time - some looking for treasure or riches, like Bartrand and Hawke. There will be people looking for Red Lyrium as well. You forget how the Red Lyrium grows - it spreads fast and you can 'farm' it (like Imshael). Carta is already distributing it, we find out about this in DAI. Why would they stop just because Corypheus is gone? It's even more valuable now.
2.Evidence is simply lack of evidence that something was in case, while every source suggests otherwise.It is your job to prove existence of something, not mine to disprove it.
What do mean 'every source suggests otherwise'? Only source you have on the matter is Chantry's word. You obviously cannot prove that darkspawn didn't already exist. Humanity only learned about them once the first Blight began, doesn't mean they didn't exist before that. Just like every year new species of animals are discovered - do you also claim they didn't exist just because you didn't know about them?
3.Problem was that mages existed even if everyone was a mage problem was still mages as they were still threat to world safety.Current Thedas have much less mages but problem are still mages that constantly threaten the world.Solution is simple remove mages from equation will/would largely decrease worlds problems.
You make no sense. So you say it would have been better if all the ancient elves had ceased to existed? Well, that would be interesting because if Solas had never existed he would never have created the Veil and then there would never have been humans, dwarfs or modern elves. Only spirits and demons - and they would have nothing to reflect except the hollow emptiness of the world.
Life is glorious and wild. Magic is natural part of the world - remove that and what is left? Chaos is natural - order is unnatural. You're fighting a losing battle.
4.Yes it is, magic or mages draw demons from the fade regardless of how they use their magicThen there is huge amount of potential for abuse and ignorance with disastrous effects.No it isn't just like a soldiers, i explained it many times soldiers are nowhere near as dangerous as mages, as evident that not a single non-mage created world-threatening disaster in the setting.How many times i will have to repeat same thing, just because chantry lied about some event deson't equatate to them being wrong here, sure it would diminish credibility of their statements overall but in that case Chantry was proven mostly correct by Corypheus and fate of magisters that went to the black city, chantry was spot one not only on events before they went to the black city but also after they went to the black city, with exception of maker part that Corypheus denied.Once again there is not a single piece of evidence that darkspawn existed in Thedas before, it is your purely wishful thinking.
Anyone can be possessed - not just mages. Their connection to the Fade makes them easier target, but there are ways to avoid demonic possession or save someone who has been possessed. Like Connor. That was thanks to blood magic, by the way. According to Solas blood magic weakens the connection to the Fade, so that could also mean that Chantry's claim that blood magic attracts more demons is just another lie.
I already told you, if you feed templars Red Lyrium you get soldiers who are far more powerful and dangerous than normal circle mages (most of whom can barely light a fire with their magic, thanks to wasting their gifts rotting in a prison and being allowed only to recite the chant day after day, living in fear of themselves and what they could be capable of, because of Chantry's stories about evil maleficarum and the rite of tranquility).
Chantry has no credibility left. The only part they were correct was the magisters entering the Fade. Corypheus himself said darkspawn and taint existed before he ever set foot in the Golden City, how many times must I repeat that? You can choose to not believe it, if you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that there is evidence to suggest otherwise.
5.Proof, no but it is reliable to think at least some returned on their own to the circles (As Varric pointed out many Kirkwall mages blamed Anders for situation) and considering public opinion about magic (if i recall there is war table mission where Leliana suggests let mages go so they can return after they see living outside circle is very hard and they return) it was sane thing to do.Then there is matter that most likely good deal of mages were recaptured.
Most likely none of the mages were recaptured. Not alive at least. Hawke would have been there to protect them (and Anders, if he lives). No mage in their right mind would let the templars take them back to the Circle where they would be most likely made tranquil. All the Circles fell anyway when the rebellion truly began.
6.It is not mistreating them to take reasonable precautions.- Cullen
Mages live in most luxurious places in Thedas, if that is mistreatment i want that to.There is a little evidence that Templars mistreat mages on any other basis than individual.Even in Kirkwall there were only 2 templars known of abusing mages.Plus, you completely ignore fact that chantry preaches as well that magic is a gift just to push your false narrative that you support with false claims and half-truths in order to invoke emotions of others so they join your narrative.
Oh yes, Spire and it's dungeons where mages like Cole were starved to death were truly such a paradise! Or Gallows, a former place for slaves, where mages were locked in their cells and tortured by men like Alrik for fun. So luxurious! There is every evidence, so many reports of mistreatment of mages and so many times the Chantry and the Seekers simply turned a blind eye. Chantry teaches that magic is a corrupting influence in the world. They promote ignorance and blind hatred of anyone who just happens to be a mage. It's their fault normal people fear magic and treat mages like they're monsters instead of woman and men just like anyone else.
7.How exactly you jumped from Dalish whitewashing themselves in this war, spreading lies about Dales and war, to discussion who's guilt it was?Dalish don't know jack, their entire culture is based on lies and whitewashing their own failings.Considering that circles frame much more mages than dalish that deal only mostly with 2 mages per clan and that we spend much more time with the circles than dalish it is only understable, im not ignoring it im pretty sure i did acknowledge circle failings and lot of room for an improvment but compared to dalish circles at least contained it's outbreak at least until pro-mage divine send whole system to hell with her stupidity.
Dalish practice magic freely - and so does Tevinter. If magic was so bad as the Chantry says there would be no dalish clans left and Tevinter would have demons running all over the place. That hasn't happened. Tevinter also has a Circle - a place for study of magic and way to seek knowledge. They also have templars - instead of the corrupt Orlesian Chantry who serves the whims of rich and powerful orleasian nobles, the templars of the Imperium serve the mages and magisterium directly. That is how it should be in every corner of the world. Mages can clearly take care of themselves they do not need the Chantry. Such a frightening truth it must be for them. That is why they spout their propaganda against Tevinter and have more than once declared Exalted March against the Imperium - to no avail, of course.
8.Orlais didn't invade Dales, stop spreading lies.Dales invaded Orlais and Orlais and chantry only retaliate for that.Unless you want to tell me that Orlais should just allow elves to kill and invade them it was very much justified.Chantry failed thanks to Justinia and Leliana that as i said sent entire system to hell.
It was racial and religious persecution - and when the elves tried to get away from them the Chantry would unleash their templars to attack them. The Dalish merely protected their kingdom from orleasian invasion by pushing them back beyond their own borders. They captured areas of significant importance to held back the humans invaders. This of course gave the Orlais the perfect excuse to claim elves attacked first (all lies, the violence had been going on for years, what happened at Red Crossing was just a convenient excuse to start the war they had longed for so long) and thus justify what they did.
Chantry was doomed to fail from the beginning. I'm only surprised it was left standing after everything that happened in DAI (a shame, really, but on the other hand it will be interesting to see if Leliana is able to completely transform it from within).
Are you kidding? It was in the game. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it isn't in the game. This dialogue was in the quest Finding Nathaniel.
I stand corrected.
They also have templars - instead of the corrupt Orlesian Chantry who serves the whims of rich and powerful orleasian nobles, the templars of the Imperium serve the mages and magisterium directly. That is how it should be in every corner of the world. Mages can clearly take care of themselves they do not need the Chantry. Such a frightening truth it must be for them. That is why they spout their propaganda against Tevinter and have more than once declared Exalted March against the Imperium - to no avail, of course.
There are so many insane things about just this fraction of his post that I don't even know where to begin.
First and foremost, an elven supporter supporting the empire that destroyed the elves.
Second, claiming that Templars follow the rule of Orlesian nobles when not once have we seen any evidence of this.
Third, while simultaneously claiming that the Chantry is corrupt because it serves Orlesian nobles, praising the Templars in Tevinter for serving mage nobles.
Fourth, claiming that Templars serving mage rulers is proof of how mages don't need the Chantry despite the fact this is actually evidence of how Thedas needs the Chantry because there are mage rulers with personal armies of Templars who don't watch out for corruption.
Fifth, claiming that Tevinter Templars aren't corrupt despite it being a known fact supported by numerous sources from Fenris to Lambert and Dorian that they are blocked in every attempt to bring mages to justice, serve mages and don't even have Templar abilities.
So, really, what the ****?
I already told you there were many people who knew the location - Bartrand and his cronies, Hawke and all his companions + Bianca. Any one of them could have told someone who would see a business opportunity - or like what actually happened; Bianca told Corypheus and that's how Red Lyrium spread to the surface. It's not impossible scenario to imagine - quite the opposite. Deep Roads are dangerous, but like I already said where there is a will, there is a way. Many people travel to Deep Roads all the time - some looking for treasure or riches, like Bartrand and Hawke. There will be people looking for Red Lyrium as well. You forget how the Red Lyrium grows - it spreads fast and you can 'farm' it (like Imshael). Carta is already distributing it, we find out about this in DAI. Why would they stop just because Corypheus is gone? It's even more valuable now.
What do mean 'every source suggests otherwise'? Only source you have on the matter is Chantry's word. You obviously cannot prove that darkspawn didn't already exist. Humanity only learned about them once the first Blight began, doesn't mean they didn't exist before that. Just like every year new species of animals are discovered - do you also claim they didn't exist just because you didn't know about them?
You make no sense. So you say it would have been better if all the ancient elves had ceased to existed? Well, that would be interesting because if Solas had never existed he would never have created the Veil and then there would never have been humans, dwarfs or modern elves. Only spirits and demons - and they would have nothing to reflect except the hollow emptiness of the world.
Life is glorious and wild. Magic is natural part of the world - remove that and what is left? Chaos is natural - order is unnatural. You're fighting a losing battle.
Anyone can be possessed - not just mages. Their connection to the Fade makes them easier target, but there are ways to avoid demonic possession or save someone who has been possessed. Like Connor. That was thanks to blood magic, by the way. According to Solas blood magic weakens the connection to the Fade, so that could also mean that Chantry's claim that blood magic attracts more demons is just another lie.
I already told you, if you feed templars Red Lyrium you get soldiers who are far more powerful and dangerous than normal circle mages (most of whom can barely light a fire with their magic, thanks to wasting their gifts rotting in a prison and being allowed only to recite the chant day after day, living in fear of themselves and what they could be capable of, because of Chantry's stories about evil maleficarum and the rite of tranquility).
Chantry has no credibility left. The only part they were correct was the magisters entering the Fade. Corypheus himself said darkspawn and taint existed before he ever set foot in the Golden City, how many times must I repeat that? You can choose to not believe it, if you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that there is evidence to suggest otherwise.
Most likely none of the mages were recaptured. Not alive at least. Hawke would have been there to protect them (and Anders, if he lives). No mage in their right mind would let the templars take them back to the Circle where they would be most likely made tranquil. All the Circles fell anyway when the rebellion truly began.
Oh yes, Spire and it's dungeons where mages like Cole were starved to death were truly such a paradise! Or Gallows, a former place for slaves, where mages were locked in their cells and tortured by men like Alrik for fun. So luxurious! There is every evidence, so many reports of mistreatment of mages and so many times the Chantry and the Seekers simply turned a blind eye. Chantry teaches that magic is a corrupting influence in the world. They promote ignorance and blind hatred of anyone who just happens to be a mage. It's their fault normal people fear magic and treat mages like they're monsters instead of woman and men, just like anyone else.
Dalish practice magic freely - and so does Tevinter. If magic was so bad as the Chantry says there would be no dalish clans left and Tevinter would have demons running all over the place. That hasn't happened. Tevinter also has a Circle - a place for study of magic and way to seek knowledge. They also have templars - instead of the corrupt Orlesian Chantry who serves the whims of rich and powerful orleasian nobles, the templars of the Imperium serve the mages and magisterium directly. That is how it should be in every corner of the world. Mages can clearly take care of themselves they do not need the Chantry. Such a frightening truth it must be for them. That is why they spout their propaganda against Tevinter and have more than once declared Exalted March against the Imperium - to no avail, of course.
It was racial and religious persecution - and when the elves tried to get away from them the Chantry would unleash their templars to attack them. The Dalish merely protected their kingdom from orleasian invasion by pushing them back beyond their own borders. They captured areas of significant importance to held back the humans invaders. This of course gave the Orlais the perfect excuse to claim elves attacked first (all lies, the violence had been going on for years, what happened at Red Crossing was just a convenient excuse to start the war they had longed for so long) and thus justify what they did.
Chantry was doomed to fail from the beginning. I'm only surprised it was left standing after everything that happened in DAI (a shame, really, but on the other hand it will be interesting to see if Leliana is able to completely transform it from within).
1.Bartrand is either dead or insane, and his cronies most likely ended dead as he was feeding his people with lyrium and murdered them.Only Bohgdan and Sandal had 100 % survived, only 1 can speak properly.Only 2 out of hawke companions plus Varric knew it's location rest was left in Kirkwall.So about 5 people (including Bianca) knew about it's location and potentially some of grey wardens.That is quite a few people knowing it's location.Bianca only told Corypheus because he was pretending to be grey warden, not to mention Bianca was a person that decided to not betray design of her invention because it was too dangerous so unlikely she would tell it someone untrustworthy.
Hardly, Thaig remained undiscovered to the rest of the world for 1000+ years there is a good reason for that.Bartrand expedition succeeded for 3 reasons first was Hawke, second was that it was shortly after blight and third they had grey wardens maps.Plus, you can impose control on the resource until it is destroyed from the surface, and as i said it started to grow thanks to Corypheus actions.
2.You are painfully intellectually dishonest, once again you can't prove that something didn't exist unless you are omniscient therfore burden of proof lies on you.As well i may ask for a proof that 3000 years ago there was no TV and then insist just because people didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't exist.
No i have plenty sources and that source is mankind, there is 0 records on darkspawn existing before blights including dwarves.There is plenty of evidence to link blights to a magister (i won't repeat it over and over) where there is 0 evidence that blights existed before just your wishful thinking.
3.Yes it would be better if they ceased and they did (well almost) because there would be no lunatics that can destroy world roaming around.Pervious world was doomed to destruction because of it's nature that created beings that could destroy whole world.Either Thedas must make sure that mages won't do the same with their world.
4.Hardly, humnan societies beg to differ.What's left? I don't know rest of the world?
5.Redundant, number of possessions of non-mages that weren't tied to a mage in entire series? 0
Aside from possession of normal people being almost non-existent, there is also a matter that demon by possessing mages becomes stronger creating an abomnation.
6.First of all, once again stop making stuff up to push your false narrative (im tired of calling you out on that over and over again).Circles mages are trained to use their power and combat even saw in magi origin they did, otherwise every single mage would fail their harrowing.Second red lyrium is a substance that should be destroyed and supervised, plus you once again you go with false narrative now that mages are harmless puppies, they aren't they are responsible for every world threatening disaster and many other on national or local scales.
7.Please stop with you false narratives and lies, I already told you that Corypheus didn't say that darkspawn existed before the blight, your amount of intellectual dishonesty is reaching ridiculous levels.According to your quote Corypheus didn't even deny that chantry claim, he mearly confirmed he became corrupted by the blight as it is with chantry version.
"The only part they were correct was the magisters entering the Fade"
My dear you aren't intrested in anything that your own false narrative and care nothing what im saying.I already said it about 10 times what chantry was right about, including corruption of the magisters and them turning into a darkspawn, your bias toward chantry is so strong that you refuse take in any information that invalidates what you are saying and your false narrative.
8. That is ridiculous, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.Hawke is not a god nor he would protect mages infinitely.If mages in frist place remained togheter for longer peroid of time templars would just send an army and end of the story, plus even 3 fraternities voted to give up and face punishment rather than go against Templars so your claims is ridiculous, but hey not that you cared about reality if that didn't fit your narrative.
9.Actually Cole death was pure accident, but keep going with that false narrative.Also former prison that was turned into a circle, still luxurious as well you ignore that as far only 2 templars in Kirkwall showed to be abusing their power.Where are those reports and point to them how chantry ignored them, im pretty sure even Arlik had to tiptoe around Meredith and blackmail other templars.
Magic is corrupting infleunce in the world, magic grants power and power corrupts.Saying that magic corrupts is no different than saying money corrupt.Plus, once again you ignore whole over and over again that chantry also claims magic is a gift just because it doesn't fit your narrative (once again im tired of your intellectual dishonesty and me reapting the same thing while you ignore it). Of course, it isn't not like causing blights and constant disasters , and magocracy using magic to abuse people would have anything to do with that.
10.Terrible argument, Tevinter and dalish have history of horrible handling mages.Therfore blights, magisters trying brainwash entire mankind, werewolf curses etc.
MisterJB already pointed your intelectual dishonesty here.
11.Once again if you want actual origin of conflict with Orlais is that Elves refused to help with blight so blame is on elves if you want to look on situation that lead to war.Attacking Red crossing was pretty much declaration of war on Orlais and then elves invaded, they were invadors not Orlais.
There are so many insane things about just this fraction of his post that I don't even know where to begin.
First and foremost, an elven supporter supporting the empire that destroyed the elves.
Second, claiming that Templars follow the rule of Orlesian nobles when not once have we seen any evidence of this.
Third, while simultaneously claiming that the Chantry is corrupt because it serves Orlesian nobles, praising the Templars in Tevinter for serving mage nobles.
Fourth, claiming that Templars serving mage rulers is proof of how mages don't need the Chantry despite the fact this is actually evidence of how Thedas needs the Chantry because there are mage rulers with personal armies of Templars who don't watch out for corruption.
Fifth, claiming that Tevinter Templars aren't corrupt despite it being a known fact supported by numerous sources from Fenris to Lambert and Dorian that they are blocked in every attempt to bring mages to justice, serve mages and don't even have Templar abilities.
So, really, what the ****?
The elves destroyed themselves. Tevinter just finished the job.
Take away slavery from Tevinter and it's the most ideal place in Thedas to live. It's the proof that mages can look after themselves. They are free and out of Chantry's reach. Templar's are sworn to serve and protect the magisters - as they should. That is what the orleasian Chantry's puppets claim they are doing as well, but this has long ago been proven as far from truth as you can get.
Imperial Chantry doesn't preach hate or try to control people with fear like the orleasian one. It teaches that magic is a gift and should be used to serve the greater good. It promotes tolerance and enlightenment, instead of fear and prejudice. In Tevinter culture magic is a mark of honor - instead of some sickness like it's sometimes viewed in the south.
What corruption? They are merely serving their lords and follow the laws of the Imperium. Unlike the southern templars who make their own laws like ser Alrik or outright start a rebellion! They are loyal servants of the Imperium just like the Magisters and this what unites the great Empire. As for the lack of templar talents that is yet another proof of their superiority. Orleasian Chantry uses lyrium to control and leash their templars. They get addicted to lyrium and eventually it will start to decay their brain network. This dangerous and unhealthy practice is not necessary in Imperium, where the templars know their place.
The elves destroyed themselves. Tevinter just finished the job.
Take away slavery from Tevinter and it's the most ideal place in Thedas to live. It's the proof that mages can look after themselves. They are free and out of Chantry's reach. Templar's are sworn to serve and protect the magisters - as they should. That is what the orleasian Chantry's puppets claim they are doing as well, but this has long ago been proven as far from truth as you can get.
Imperial Chantry doesn't preach hate or try to control people with fear like the orleasian one. It teaches that magic is a gift and should be used to serve the greater good. It promotes tolerance and enlightenment, instead of fear and prejudice. In Tevinter culture magic is a mark of honor - instead of some sickness like it's sometimes viewed in the south.
What corruption? They are merely serving their lords and follow the laws of the Imperium. Unlike the southern templars who make their own laws like ser Alrik or outright start a rebellion! They are loyal servants of the Imperium just like the Magisters and this what unites the great Empire. As for the lack of templar talents that is yet another proof of their superiority. Orleasian Chantry uses lyrium to control and leash their templars. They get addicted to lyrium and eventually it will start to decay their brain network. This dangerous and unhealthy practice is not necessary in Imperium, where the templars know their place.
Ok either you barely know anything about the lore, you are delusional or you are screwing around, either scenario is bad so im out. 
That is such a wilful disregard of everything that has ever been established in the Dragon Age franchise that I am honestly and absolutely astonished you could actually write it with a straight face. It is almost as if everyone within every single instalment from companions (Fenris, Dorian) to villains (Calpernia) did not tell us the same things, that Tevinter is a country in ruins where palaces of mages rise above slums, where every mage must use blood magic or be destroyed by his rivals, that little child are slaugthered at parties to entertain guests, that corruption is rampant, etc, etc, etc.
The level of delusion, hypocrisy and lack of self awareness contained in your post is of such a degree that, quite frankly, I would have an hard time pointing every which way in which it betrays everything else you post on these forums. I could begin with your supposed disgust of the racial persecution committed during the fall of the Dales while simultaneously finding justification for Tevinter's enslavement of the entire elven race based upon nothing but you wish to see mages elevated above those without it, which is itself a form of racial persecution; I could also perhaps mention the absolute ridiculousness of defending the sack of Orlesian cities as necessary for Dalish security while, at the same time, condemning Orlais for destroying the Dales for its own security but, honestly, judging from everything I have seen spouted by you, I seriously doubt you would take all of two second to contemplate it all and, quite frankly, I'm not one to talk to myself.
I will just leave you to argue with TKS, you are more on each other's level.
I will just leave you to argue with TKS, you are more on each other's level.
LoL, don't even insult me like that.
Meanwhile everyone else is going:
1.Bartrand is either dead or insane, and his cronies most likely ended dead as he was feeding his people with lyrium and murdered them.Only Bohgdan and Sandal had 100 % survived, only 1 can speak properly.Only 2 out of hawke companions plus Varric knew it's location rest was left in Kirkwall.So about 5 people (including Bianca) knew about it's location and potentially some of grey wardens.That is quite a few people knowing it's location.Bianca only told Corypheus because he was pretending to be grey warden, not to mention Bianca was a person that decided to not betray design of her invention because it was too dangerous so unlikely she would tell it someone untrustworthy.
She already told it to someone unworthy. Yes, the Grey Warden's knew and if some of Bartrand's hirelings survived they knew too. They were not the same people he fed the lyrium - he did that to his servants. These guys were just swords for hire.
2.You are painfully intellectually dishonest, once again you can't prove that something didn't exist unless you are omniscient therfore burden of proof lies on you.As well i may ask for a proof that 3000 years ago there was no TV and then insist just because people didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't exist.
No i have plenty sources and that source is mankind, there is 0 records on darkspawn existing before blights including dwarves.There is plenty of evidence to link blights to a magister (i won't repeat it over and over) where there is 0 evidence that blights existed before just your wishful thinking.
If you have plenty of sources then do share them. My evidence still stands: Corypheus himself said they only discovered the darkness. He says "they claim we brought the darkness into this world" which seems to imply that is not the truth. I didn't really say that Blights existed before Corypheus & Co entered the Fade. I only said that taint and possibly darkspawn could've existed before. Fact is that the First Blight began only after the Magisters entered the Black City - whether that was anything more than a coincidence is debatable.
6.First of all, once again stop making stuff up to push your false narrative (im tired of calling you out on that over and over again).Circles mages are trained to use their power and combat even saw in magi origin they did, otherwise every single mage would fail their harrowing.Second red lyrium is a substance that should be destroyed and supervised, plus you once again you go with false narrative now that mages are harmless puppies, they aren't they are responsible for every world threatening disaster and many other on national or local scales.
Average Circle Mage is weaker than a Red Templar. That is why some of them like Jowan turn to blood magic as their final option. Yes, I'm sure most of the Red Lyrium will be destroyed, but that doesn't mean there isn't going to be people who are interested in benefiting from it instead. Like the Carta.
7.Please stop with you false narratives and lies, I already told you that Corypheus didn't say that darkspawn existed before the blight, your amount of intellectual dishonesty is reaching ridiculous levels.According to your quote Corypheus didn't even deny that chantry claim, he mearly confirmed he became corrupted by the blight as it is with chantry version.
"The only part they were correct was the magisters entering the Fade"
My dear you aren't intrested in anything that your own false narrative and care nothing what im saying.I already said it about 10 times what chantry was right about, including corruption of the magisters and them turning into a darkspawn, your bias toward chantry is so strong that you refuse take in any information that invalidates what you are saying and your false narrative.
Chantry was right about Corypheus entering the Black City and becoming corrupted, yes you are right about that. If the Chant is correct it was the Old Gods whispering to them in their dreams, luring them into the Black City with false promises of Godhood. Instead they became corrupted - "first of the darkspawn", that's what the Chant claims. What Corypheus says seems to contradict that, however.
Magic is corrupting infleunce in the world, magic grants power and power corrupts.Saying that magic corrupts is no different than saying money corrupt.Plus, once again you ignore whole over and over again that chantry also claims magic is a gift just because it doesn't fit your narrative (once again im tired of your intellectual dishonesty and me reapting the same thing while you ignore it). Of course, it isn't not like causing blights and constant disasters , and magocracy using magic to abuse people would have anything to do with that.
When did Chantry exactly say that magic is a gift? Power indeed corrupts, but it isn't a universal truth that everyone who has magic will use it for selfish gains. You claim every mage is the same? No. Everyone has a choice to make between right and wrong, evil and good. Not only mages.
It is almost as if everyone within every single instalment from companions (Fenris, Dorian) to villains (Calpernia) did not tell us the same things, that Tevinter is a country in ruins where palaces of mages rise above slums, where every mage must use blood magic or be destroyed by his rivals, that little child are slaugthered at parties to entertain guests, that corruption is rampant, etc, etc, etc.
Hmm, that is true. I guess the reality doesn't always live up to the ideal.
I have never heard of little children being slaughtered at parties to entertain guests, however. Dorian said that blood magic is frowned upon in public - that everyone practices it only in secret.
I could begin with your supposed disgust of the racial persecution committed during the fall of the Dales while simultaneously finding justification for Tevinter's enslavement of the entire elven race based upon nothing but you wish to see mages elevated above those without it, which is itself a form of racial persecution...
I didn't say it was justified - I merely pointed out the fact that Tevinter didn't actually destroy the elves, like you claimed. That had already happened.
I could also perhaps mention the absolute ridiculousness of defending the sack of Orlesian cities as necessary for Dalish security while, at the same time, condemning Orlais for destroying the Dales for its own security.
Orlais has in all of it's existence been about expansionism. It continues even to this day with people like Gaspard. It's logical to assume they were the ones who had more reason to attack the Dales. What reason would the elves have to attack Orlais? After Dales had been conquered they moved on to do the same thing with Ferelden.
I'm not quite sure what point you're going for here. I think you understand and acknowledge the reality of magical accidents. We've already discussed how mage children are identified, the fact that Wynne unintentionally set a boy's hair on fire, and have even brought up the things young Harry Potter did unconsciously before he went to Hogwart's.
When an individual has magic in their system, it will be expressed in some form. It's not going to sit there dormant forever. Sending them to the Circle for training allows them to learn how to control it in a controlled environment, thus reducing the danger to the general public.
It is possible, I suppose, that some of them may be able to figure out how to control and use it without training, but I'd expect there would be a lot more accidents during such a process. Also note that mages seeking information can often find a 'friendly' demon willing to share - that's how Merrill learned blood magic, after all.
I think the accidents are exaggerated, and isolated cases only. How often it happen? Where and when? What types of accidents? Connor don't have any accidents we heard of, he's near teen, incident in Redcliffe is because he learn how to summon demon from Jowan's books. We only hear that "Connor show signs", does that "sign" means "accident" or he that "sign" means he perfectly control his power?
Sending them to the Circle expose them to lots of knowledge including Blood Magic, as Jowan, Uldred and Libertarian Blood Mages learn Blood Magic from Blood Magic books section Irving emptied out after Mges start practicing Blood Magic. Mage Origin show clearly that. Jowan's Tranquility is just to set example, to scare those Libertarian Mages.
As far as i know Blood Magic is nothing for Dalish, and the Keeper magic art is Blood Magic, this is shown both DA:O and DA2. Merethari cure Mahariel using Blood Magic, and Meril "Blood Magic" is Dalish Keeper Magic. Blood Magic that can stop/slow down Darkspawn taint.
So my point is, Mages need to LEARN new POWERS (now i said this in Skyrim Dragonborn shout sense) in order for them knowing new powers. "Spells" are actually "powers", not really spells. Mages do not learn spells actually, but powers. Only Mages can use such powers, non-Mages even read those books or learn it cannot use powers. If Mages don't learn new powers, they can't perform those powers.
Couslands are nobles who interested in magic, the library was build to study magic, but they are non-Mages, so even though they have magical knowledge, it doesn't benefit them in term of powers, just knowledge about magic. That's why Elenor quickly suggest to find healing magic to Bryce. Cousland are actually "magical" but most players don't realize it.
In addition ; If Anakin Skywalker not trained to be Jedi, will he become Darth Vader?
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