445 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

If you only with permit may leave the place, you are prisoner (or little child). This is not question.

It depends on which definition you use for these terms.

The wiki definition says, in part: a person who is deprived of liberty against his or her will, which would imply that you're not a prisoner if you're somewhere because you want to be there.

Also note that there are some times and places where adults are not allowed to leave a particular premises for a period of time. They are not considered prisoners during those times.

[Catilina]

It depends on which definition you use for these terms.

The wiki definition says, in part: a person who is deprived of liberty against his or her will, which would imply that you're not a prisoner if you're somewhere because you want to be there.

Also note that there are some times and places where adults are not allowed to leave a particular premises for a period of time. They are not considered prisoners during those times.

Well, a job is not necessarily  a prison. But I am a freelance ...

 

The Mages are not freely in the Towers. They can lie themselves that they are free, but they are not.

[Pasquale1234]

Well, a job is not necessarily  a prison. But I am a freelance ...

Most people are quite capable of walking off of most jobs if they so choose.

Sometimes people are detained by police or security agents for questioning. People can be detained and searched while trying to board an airplane. As they have not been formally arrested, they are not prisoners.

Military personnel frequently find themselves in places they'd rather not be and are not allowed to leave. But they're not prisoners, either.
 

The Mages are not freely in the Towers. They can lie themselves that they are free, but they are not.

And you can lie to yourself about how someone else feels about their situation, but that doesn't make you right.

But since few things irk me more than someone insisting they know what another person feels or how they think, I'm going to end this conversation with an agreement to disagree.

[Catilina]

Most people are quite capable of walking off of most jobs if they so choose.

Sometimes people are detained by police or security agents for questioning. People can be detained and searched while trying to board an airplane. As they have not been formally arrested, they are not prisoners.

Military personnel frequently find themselves in places they'd rather not be and are not allowed to leave. But they're not prisoners, either.
 

And you can lie to yourself about how someone else feels about their situation, but that doesn't make you right.

But since few things irk me more than someone insisting they know what another person feels or how they think, I'm going to end this conversation with an agreement to disagree.

You're talking about days. The mages have life inprisonment.

They are not all feel that way, but most probably. Or they can become resigned. And why you think they are happy? 

Man is capable to get used many bad things. But they are still bad things.

[Arshei]

Well, a job is not necessarily  a prison. But I am a freelance ...

 

The Mages are not freely in the Towers. They can lie themselves that they are free, but they are not.

 

• Sebastian: You seem very angry.
• Anders: And here I thought the Chantry was against mind-reading.
• Sebastian: Did something happen to you in the Circle? I understand there were problems in Ferelden...
• Anders: Are you saying a mage can only be unhappy in the Circle if demons were involved?
• Anders: No, it's not about Uldred. It's not about being beaten or raped by a templar— that does happen, but I've been fortunate.
• Anders: It' s a larger principle: the freedom every man, woman, and child born in Thedas have as a natural right.
• Sebastian: You were given to the Circle. I was given to the Chantry. Hawke was driven away from home by the Darkspawn.
• Sebastian: None of us are free.

[Toasted Llama]

Well - I think I might support the notion of dropping templars, because so many of them end up lyrium addicts. The function they perform could perhaps be shifted to mages with dispel magic, mana clash, etc. skills. If mages aren't going to be confined to circles, you'd probably want some of these magic-fighting mages in the ranks of your local law enforcement organizations - and these mages would be provided with a supply of lyrium as needed.

 

Woops, I forgot lyrium addiction was still a thing with templars, good point!

[Catilina]

• Sebastian: You seem very angry.
• Anders: And here I thought the Chantry was against mind-reading.
• Sebastian: Did something happen to you in the Circle? I understand there were problems in Ferelden...
• Anders: Are you saying a mage can only be unhappy in the Circle if demons were involved?
• Anders: No, it's not about Uldred. It's not about being beaten or raped by a templar— that does happen, but I've been fortunate.
• Anders: It' s a larger principle: the freedom every man, woman, and child born in Thedas have as a natural right.
• Sebastian: You were given to the Circle. I was given to the Chantry. Hawke was driven away from home by the Darkspawn.
• Sebastian: None of us are free.

Then anyone can be imprisoned at any time, because we are not free. About this many people thinks differently.

 

By the way Sebastian, I like this banter better:

Sebastian: It's our duty to tell the templars.

Fenris: Then why haven't you done it?

Sebastian: I guess I was hoping they'd come to it on their own.

Fenris: And then you wouldn't have to betray Hawke's friends, right?

Sebastian: That's not reason enough to allow a maleficar to walk free.

(If Anders is in the party)

Anders: You think the templars don't know I'm here? They just haven't caught me yet.

(If Merrill is in the party)

Merrill: Are you talking about me?

Sebastian: Which of us should do it? Shall we draw lots?

Fenris: Uh-uh. You want to turn them in, you work it out with Hawke.

[Arshei]

 

Then anyone can be imprisoned at any time, because we are not free. About this many people thinks differently.

 

By the way Sebastian, I like this banter better:

Sebastian: It's our duty to tell the templars.

Fenris: Then why haven't you done it?

Sebastian: I guess I was hoping they'd come to it on their own.

Fenris: And then you wouldn't have to betray Hawke's friends, right?

Sebastian: That's not reason enough to allow a maleficar to walk free.

(If Anders is in the party)

Anders: You think the templars don't know I'm here? They just haven't caught me yet.

(If Merrill is in the party)

Merrill: Are you talking about me?

Sebastian: Which of us should do it? Shall we draw lots?

Fenris: Uh-uh. You want to turn them in, you work it out with Hawke.

 

 

And after that banter, Merrill caused the death of her whole clan and Anders destroyed half of Kirkwall.

[Catilina]

And after that banter, Merrill caused the death of her whole clan and Anders destroyed half of Kirkwall.

In all my worlds Merrill's clan lives. You do not need destroy them...  your Hawke was evil?

Anders had a reason for it. He destroyed only the Chantry. It is not the half the city.

 

AND: Sebastian does not want to report them because of these things. Sebastian wanted to report them, because they are mages.

And then Sebastian threatened Hawke that he will destroy the entire city with his army. But this doesn't matter. He is not a mage.

[Qis]

Newborns can't even make a fist voluntarily. They learn conscious control of their hands and fingers over time, as they grow and develop.

It's also true of young mage children. Do you remember the story Wynne tells the Warden about her youth? IIRC, a boy made her mad and she set his hair on fire. It wasn't something she did on purpose; she was angry and it just happened. Young Harry Potter did similar things until he went to Hogwart's and received some training.

Regardless of what ultimately happens to the circles, young mages need to be identified so their skills can be properly trained.

 

Yes, and in DA world setting, Mages are naturally born. "They can't control themselves" is an absurd excuse. they can control themselves as anyone can control their own nature, why? Because it's nature.

 

Mages are not a product of mutation, not like X-men. Mutation are unpredictable and mostly a disaster, this is not the case of Mages in DA, Mages and non-Mages are born naturally. As any child will react spontaneously when threatened, so Mage kids.

 

But the problem is fear mongering from the Chantry, it is the same like sentiment over LGBT people by religious preachers, and Muslims by Fox News. It makes Mages feel like **** being born into the world, and always feel threatened. It is up to the point where families disown their child or do whatever they can to keep their children a secret...

[Almila_Lavellan]

Karl wasn't noble at all and he still received a lot of dirty letters from Anders, we didn't got a lot of information about the circle so you can't claim that only noble peoplecan receive letters, and the "noble people get different treatment" is a lie, we can see that with the Amell grey warden.

 

I just want to point out that mages from Circles aren't permitted to send/receive letters. If you paid attention, you would've heard that Anders said he sent letters to Karl secretly. Also, noble people get slightly different treatment. Yes, they can't freely see their families but in DA 2, Hawke could stay in contact with Bethany. And I don't remember anything in the lore that says Amell GW's family tried to contact GW but they were denied.

[Pasquale1234]

Yes, and in DA world setting, Mages are naturally born. "They can't control themselves" is an absurd excuse. they can control themselves as anyone can control their own nature, why? Because it's nature.

That doesn't change the fact that these children need to learn to control their magic. Part of the reason the general public are afraid of mages is because some of them have been hurt or lost property to accidental magic - like the kid whose hair Wynne set ablaze.

Also - a mundane loses his temper and puts his fist through a wall. Mage loses his temper and sets the town on fire. Pretty big difference, don't you think?
 

But the problem is fear mongering from the Chantry,

The Chant says that Magic is made to serve man, not rule over him.

Aside from maintenance of circles and the templar order, can you provide examples of the Chantry stirring up fear of magic? Anyone who has ever seen a fireball has a legitimate reason to be afraid of it.

I've often maintained that it would be helpful if more mages would set up healing clinics and whatnot, because showing people the helpful side of magic can help alleviate fear.

[Catilina]

That doesn't change the fact that these children need to learn to control their magic. Part of the reason the general public are afraid of mages is because some of them have been hurt or lost property to accidental magic - like the kid whose hair Wynne set ablaze.
 

The Chant says that Magic is made to serve man, not rule over him.

Aside from maintenance of circles and the templar order, can you provide examples of the Chantry stirring up fear of magic? Anyone who has ever seen a fireball has a legitimate reason to be afraid of it.

I've often maintained that it would be helpful if more mages would set up healing clinics and whatnot, because showing people the helpful side of magic can help alleviate fear.

1. What about schools? You know: I talking about that institution, where the children learn.

 

2. Many have been taught that the magic is curse. Most people afraid from the cursed. And the mages arrested, and people need to be reported who are mages. Because the mages are dangerous. It's generating fear.

[Arshei]

In all my worlds Merrill's clan lives. You do not need destroy them...  your Hawke was evil?

Anders had a reason for it. He destroyed only the Chantry. It is not the half the city.

 

AND: Sebastian does not want to report them because of these things. Sebastian wanted to report them, because they are mages.

And then Sebastian threatened Hawke that he will destroy the entire city with his army. But this doesn't matter. He is not a mage.

 

He isn't, he is just using his condition of Noble, oh it is so unfair that mages, people who can kill everyone moving his fingers or control kings and emperors with blood magic are sent to prison, oh but who cares about the differences between poor people and rich people.

 

What is your idea of freedom?, because Anders don't really seem free to me, specially since he is an abomination.

See? if Anders would have never leave the Circle a lot of innocent people wouldn't have died.

If you are around a kid with a very contagious sickness, do you want him to be free or be sent to a tower?

 

I just want to point out that mages from Circles aren't permitted to send/receive letters. If you paid attention, you would've heard that Anders said he sent letters to Karl secretly. Also, noble people get slightly different treatment. Yes, they can't freely see their families but in DA 2, Hawke could stay in contact with Bethany. And I don't remember anything in the lore that says Amell GW's family tried to contact GW but they were denied.

 

Are you saying that the "terrible" Circle of Kirkwall, the circle where the templars were rapers and they made a tranquil every mage they could, let mages get visited just because they are noble?

[Catilina]

He isn't, he is just using his condition of Noble, oh it is so unfair that mages, people who can kill everyone moving his fingers or control kings and emperors with blood magic are sent to prison, oh but who cares about the differences between poor people and rich people.

 

What is your idea of freedom?, because Anders don't really seem free to me, specially since he is an abomination.

See? if Anders would have never leave the Circle a lot of innocent people wouldn't have died.

If you are around a kid with a very contagious sickness, do you want him to be free or be sent to a tower?

The magic are not sick, and not curse.

 

Every revolution involves a lot of blood. This is a bad thing, but real. How many innocent people died for freedom? Included who don't want this freedom. Sadly. Honestly? I do not like revolutions too much, but I can see the reason, and I see: often required. How many innocent mage died because of abuse?

[Qis]

That doesn't change the fact that these children need to learn to control their magic. Part of the reason the general public are afraid of mages is because some of them have been hurt or lost property to accidental magic - like the kid whose hair Wynne set ablaze.

Also - a mundane loses his temper and puts his fist through a wall. Mage loses his temper and sets the town on fire. Pretty big difference, don't you think?

 

People will not fear if they take it as normal, it is normal thing to see. The problem is like Harry step brother, he know Harry is a wizard kid, but still want to provoke Harry? He provoke Harry because he feel Harry is a abnormal kid, beside that Harry is an outsider in his family. For a very long time Harry being harassed by his foster family because of that. They don't want to accept him as what he is...

 

All the accidents happen is because of provocation, and why there are provocations?

 

Because of Fox News and media generally, Muslims get provoked on the bus, got hit and run, and much more. And if Muslims react or going amok then they are "see, religion of peace strike again!". The same situation here, "see, they can't control themselves!" when Mage child burning peoples hair...

 

And the same thing toward LGBT people, because of hundreds of years religious preaching, how they being harassed, ridiculed, mocked, made fun of, being murdered even....

 

 

The Chant says that Magic is made to serve man, not rule over him.

Aside from maintenance of circles and the templar order, can you provide examples of the Chantry stirring up fear of magic? Anyone who has ever seen a fireball has a legitimate reason to be afraid of it.

I've often maintained that it would be helpful if more mages would set up healing clinics and whatnot, because showing people the helpful side of magic can help alleviate fear.

 

It doesn't matter what the Chantry doctrine is, but what matter is religious authority and peoples interpretation. That quote is as innocent as it sound, and it is correct, but what happen is t being interpret as "The Chantry have a right to take away your Mage children, locked them up in prison, and lobotomized them when needed"

 

Everyone see fireball and everyone also see bombs exploding or Tempest Alchemist do stuff, it's nothing to FEAR of unless they are taught to fear the one who do those stuff. What do they fear? Fireball or the Mage? The fear of magic itself or the one who can perform magic? But one of the dialogue choice in DA:O when talked to a Tranquil in Ostagar is "The Chantry said magic is sinful", by means peoples have been taught that....or at least is what peoples understand of Chantry teaching.

 

The problem is, Chantry propaganda is not about to make Mages beneficial to the society, but to incite fear for control...yes it is nice to see Mages open up clinic, or serving as town security, or serve in the military, or do whatever, fully utilizing their skills in magic for good (like in TES universe). But Chantry policy is not about that...

[Arshei]

The magic are not sick, and not curse.

 

Every revolution involves a lot of blood. This is a bad thing, but real. How many innocent people died for freedom? Included who don't want this freedom. Sadly. Honestly? I do not like revolutions too much, but I can see the reason, and I see: often required. How many innocent mage died because of abuse?

 

Tell me you are trolling please.

---------

"Every revolution involves a lot of blood"

Did the gays blew up chantries to get homosexual marriage and be treated like people?

[Catilina]

Tell me you are trolling please.

---------

"Every revolution involves a lot of blood"

Did the gays blew up chantries to get homosexual marriage and be treated like people?

Gay marriage? What? And I'm trolling? (I talked to dictatorship.)

[Arshei]

Gay marriage? What? And I'm trolling? (I talked to dictatorship.)

 

So the mage situation is more similar to a dictatorship than to gay rights? because I don't see the mages being oppressed, they are only being taken away from the people they can harm.

In "dictatorships" they would have been killed right away.

[Catilina]

So the mage situation is more similar to a dictatorship than to gay rights? because I don't see the mages being oppressed, they are only being taken away from the people they can harm.

In "dictatorships" they would have been killed right away.

There are similarities yes, but it is dictatorship. In the dictatorship they did not kill everyone immediately. A lot of people are in jail. innocently. 

The mages can't married, yes. But for the time bigger problem is that the are in prison... To be able to start a family, they need to be free.

[Arshei]

There are similarities yes, but it is dictatorship. In the dictatorship they did not kill everyone immediately. A lot of people are in jail. innocently. 

The mages can't married, yes. But for the time bigger problem is that the are in prison... To be able to start a family, they need to be free.

 

Sterile people can't be able to start a family neither, are you blaming the templars for that too?

[Dabrikishaw]

No, but over the course of the franchise, the way things have been portrayed in-game has made it more and more difficult to support circles and templars.

...Did you just not play Dragon Age ][? Did you just skip all of Inquisition?

[Almila_Lavellan]

He isn't, he is just using his condition of Noble, oh it is so unfair that mages, people who can kill everyone moving his fingers or control kings and emperors with blood magic are sent to prison, oh but who cares about the differences between poor people and rich people.

 

What is your idea of freedom?, because Anders don't really seem free to me, specially since he is an abomination.

See? if Anders would have never leave the Circle a lot of innocent people wouldn't have died.

If you are around a kid with a very contagious sickness, do you want him to be free or be sent to a tower?

 

 

Are you saying that the "terrible" Circle of Kirkwall, the circle where the templars were rapers and they made a tranquil every mage they could, let mages get visited just because they are noble?

 

I didn't mean they get visited. I said they get "slightly" different treatment which is being able to send letters. And again, Bethany's letter is shown in the game. You didn't pay much attention to DA 2, did you? You tend to understand things the way you'd like them. You don't even see other points I made. Then again what can I expect? You think being born with magical abilities is sickness. It's like saying people who use their left hands are unnatural, and they should stop using their left hands, or there would be consequences.

[Catilina]

Sterile people can't be able to start a family neither, are you blaming the templars for that too?

Sterile? Who are sterile? What are you talking about?  Mages are not sterile...

By the way family... Do you think the family just  then will be the family if procreation is happening? I almost said something. Please, stop it.

[Arshei]

 

Sterile? Who are sterile? What are you talking about?  Mages are not sterile...

By the way family... Do you think the family just  then the family if procreation is happening? I almost said something. Please, stop it.

 

 

The Circle is the new family of the mage now. Templars are like the protective fathers, that's why is always so...  nice to see a mage falling for a templar, everything is pretty incestuous.