445 réponses à ce sujet

[Arshei]

Yes. It. Does

Read WOT if you don't believe me

 

WOT? Wheel of Time? because Wheel of Time isn't even from Dragon Age series.

[thesuperdarkone2]

WOT? Wheel of Time? because Wheel of Time isn't even from Dragon Age series.

World of Thedas AKA the encyclopedia showing both in-game and out of game more about various topics in the dragon age franchise.


It's telling you have no idea what that is

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

Actually replaying the games I see two problems, that characteristically remind me our current social issues. Good job Bioware for making a socially current game, I'll give them that.

 

But here's the problem:

 

Chantry and Templar rhetoric gives no mages the tools to succeed. It reminds me greatly of the mental health community and disabled community, when society tells them they have to manage themselves and control their behaviors. While at the same time purging them and criticizing them. Calling them lazy. Or in this case, powered obsessed people who will turn into abominations everywhere if they aren't control.

 

But the mages, the more and more I replay this game, the more and more its hard for me to have any sympathy for them

 

I explained in my Conscription thread. Even if she were to die Fiona, she should have been willing to make that sacrifice for her people. The Mages are constantly complaining, but I don't necessarily see themselves taking the actions in helping themselves

 

-They rebelled against the Templars

-They rebelled against the Chantry

-Their freakin Leader didn't have the gall or the stones or even the strength to say, The Conclave is a trap, but I am to die for my freedom by trying these talk peaces out

 

You know here's the Inquisitor sacrificing his own life, and putting himself in danger for the lives of the people of Thedas. And Fiona's so called freedom for her people isn't worth her dying for.

 

Fudge that.

[Arshei]

World of Thedas AKA the encyclopedia showing both in-game and out of game more about various topics in the dragon age franchise.


It's telling you have no idea what that is

 

Read an encyclopedia? HAHAHAHAHA.

[Almila_Lavellan]

Magic was and still is the cause of immense disasters in Thedas.
The Blights,The Slavery of the Empire,The Slavery of the Evanuris,The veil,The Breach,Corypheus and the others priests,their old gods,blood mages,Demons like the nightmare magical tools that can destroy the world.
Basically without magic and mages the world of DA would be a better place.

 

Did people here really play DA:I and Trespasser both? Obviously magic always existed before arrival of humans and Chantry. It's natural, not some unnatural evil force.

Also, did the lore confirm that magic definitely caused the Blights?

 

 

WOT? Wheel of Time? because Wheel of Time isn't even from Dragon Age series.

 

How some people play DA without doing even a little research on the lore and come here to discuss it is beyond me.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yes. It. Does

Read WOT if you don't believe me

First what does chantry says, second this is nonsense as chantry stance as series show is pretty much that magic is incredibly dangerous but also gift from the maker.If chantry stance was that magic was inherently evil mages wouldn't live in luxurious towers only would follow qunari footsteps or just kill/tranquil mages.

 

 

Did people here really play DA:I and Trespasser both? Obviously magic always existed before arrival of humans and Chantry. It's natural, not some unnatural evil force.

Also, did the lore confirm that magic definitely caused the Blights?

 

Magic is a menace, natural or not it needs to be dealt with.It wasn't confirmed in 100 % but so overwhelming amount of evidence support that mages at least unleashed blights upon the world that it is around 99 % in case. 

[Almila_Lavellan]

First what does chantry says, second this is nonsense as chantry stance as series show is pretty much that magic is incredibly dangerous but also gift from the maker.If chantry stance was that magic was inherently evil mages wouldn't live in luxurious towers only would follow qunari footsteps or just kill/tranquil mages.

 

 

 

Magic is a menace, natural or not it needs to be dealt with.It wasn't confirmed in 100 % but so overwhelming amount of evidence support that mages at least unleashed blights upon the world that it is around 99 % in case. 

 

How can something natural be a "menace"? It's a gift which was given by a creator. Just because some Chantry bigot says it's curse doesn't mean it's a curse. If they really believed in their own god Maker, they would've seen magic as a gift, not as a curse since religions generally say that whatever the creator does, it has reasons to do it. Meaning magic shouldn't be seen as a curse or menace since their creator Maker created magic for some reason - if he exists.  It's not a sickness. Before Veil, everyone was connected to Fade, that means probably most people had magical abilities.

 

Also, am I to believe the Chantry propaganda that says seven magisters entered the Golden City and unleashed the Blights? I believe Trespasser implies something else about creation of the Blights.

[MisterJB]

How can something natural be a "menace"?

 

Tornadoes are natural but I imagine you wouldn't walk into one.
 

[MisterJB]

People should remember that WOT says the chantry's most important doctrine is that magic is an inherently evil force.

That alone should explain a lot

 

Are you so stupid that you can't read properly or do you just want to misinform people by manipulating information?

World of Thedas calls it a corruptible gift, not evil.
 

[Catilina]

Tornadoes are natural but I imagine you wouldn't walk into one.
 

If the tornados would have personality, we could discuss with them. Not to mention, that you can not be closed to prison the tornadoes...

(No kidding, the tornado is a natural disaster, the mage is a human.)

[TheKomandorShepard]

How can something natural be a "menace"? It's a gift which was given by a creator. Just because some Chantry bigot says it's curse doesn't mean it's a curse. If they really believed in their own god Maker, they would've seen magic as a gift, not as a curse since religions generally say that whatever the creator does, it has reasons to do it. Meaning magic shouldn't be seen as a curse or menace since their creator Maker created magic for some reason - if he exists.  It's not a sickness. Before Veil, everyone was connected to Fade, that means probably most people had magical abilities.

 

Also, am I to believe the Chantry propaganda that says seven magisters entered the Golden City and unleashed the Blights? I believe Trespasser implies something else about creation of the Blights.

Ever heard about natural disasters?Hardly, magic lead to creation of the blight (at least according to chantry) and countless other disasters on world/national/local scale.That maker created something doesn't equate to it being a good thing (assuming you buy whole maker thing in first place but for sake of argument i will), by your logic blight should be seen as good thing and a gift just because maker created it.

 

It isn't chantry propaganda it is supported by tremendous amount of evidence (including tevinter magisters that went to the black city) that support at least that part of chantry version and there is nothing that would contradict it.Tresspasser implies nothing about creation of the blights even if taint existed before it wasn't until times after magisters went to the black city it was unleashed onto mankind.  

 

 

If the tornados would have personality, we could discuss with them. Not to mention, that you can not be closed to prison the tornadoes...

(No kidding, the tornado is a natural disaster, the mage is a human.)

That is oversimplification and appeal to emotions.Mages compromise safety of the world and nations.Even if Tornado had a personality still doesn't mean

-)it can control it's own nature

-)would care about not causing a damage

 

Both of those make mages a danger.

[Almila_Lavellan]

Tornadoes are natural but I imagine you wouldn't walk into one.

 

Mages are tornadoes now? Mages are people, not some disaster. Thedas isn't our world. Just because magic doesn't exist in our world doesn't mean it shouldn't exist in Thedas too. Magic is natural in Thedas. It's like water, stone etc. Veil is unnatural one because it was created by a mortal. Do you think pre-Veil Thedas had abominations at every corner or something like that? I imagine creation of the Veil caused these demon possessions since spirits were locked away after Veil. I think if magic was a disaster, it wouldn't be so abundant in Thedas since a maker created magic.

 

Chantry consists of delusional fools. I'd like to see their faces when every one of them learned Veil wasn't created by a god.

[Catilina]

It would be interesting: if people close every child in jail, who there is a certain talent for politics or/and manipulating people. Because the politican, who have power, can be dangerous.

[MisterJB]

Mages are tornadoes now? Mages are people, not some disaster.

You weren't talking about mages, you were talking about magic.

Which is natural, certainly. And a menace. And natural menaces can be very abundant. Think of diseases.

 

The existence or lack thereof of the Maker is irrelevant in regards to the dangers of magic.

[MisterJB]

 Do you think pre-Veil Thedas had abominations at every corner or something like that? I imagine creation of the Veil caused these demon possessions since spirits were locked away after Veil.

So? Even if that was true, before the Veil there were god-like mages who enslaved everyone else in the world.

Ergo, magic is dangerous.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It would be interesting: if people close every child in jail, who there is a certain talent for politics or/and manipulating people. Because the politican, who have power, can be dangerous.

Politicans can't blow up the world, nor they have individually more power than other individual.Politicans are dangerous because society gives them a power and that also means society can take away their power if they are nuts.

[Almila_Lavellan]

Ever heard about natural disasters?Hardly, magic lead to creation of the blight (at least according to chantry) and countless other disasters on world/national/local scale.That maker created something doesn't equate to it being a good thing (assuming you buy whole maker thing in first place but for sake of argument i will), by your logic blight should be seen as good thing and a gift just because maker created it.

 

It isn't chantry propaganda it is supported by tremendous amount of evidence (including tevinter magisters that went to the black city) that support at least that part of chantry version and there is nothing that would contradict it.Tresspasser implies nothing about creation of the blights even if taint existed before it wasn't until times after magisters went to the black city it was unleashed onto mankind.  

 

Does natural disasters have personalities, I wonder? I don't believe their Maker story, but if they really believe in the Maker, they're under the delusion that magic is a curse. Of course everything a creator does isn't good but a creator has reasons to do it. Also, I don't believe Blight is natural. Natural things are what a creator creates. Blights are probably what mortals unleashed on Thedas. I don't think it was a punishment.

 

Trespasser says that elves were there long before humans' Maker story which kinda looks like their Maker and Andraste may be some powerful elves. Also, if you noticed, Andruil's story kinda resembles Blight since it says, "Something ultimately drove Andruil mad, and she forgot herself and brought plague to her lands until Mythal successfully challenged her."

[Catilina]

Politicans can't blow up the world, nor they have individually more power than other individual.Politicans are dangerous because society gives them a power and that also means society can take away their power if they are nuts.

Can't?

[Barquiel]

I just hope the next games will show more the "greys" of both of mages and templars.

 

I know this is one of the main conflict in the Dragon Age universe but I think it's time to move on from this a bit. I mean...I'd take the exact same stance in the exact same conflict the fourth game in a row because for me the templars were always the villains in the story, and that's simply not very interesting. The story feels rather complete now, imo. 

[Catilina]

Politicans can't blow up the world, nor they have individually more power than other individual.Politicans are dangerous because society gives them a power and that also means society can take away their power if they are nuts.

The solution: the idiot kids / adults / voters also need to be put in jail!

[Inkvisiittori]

I know this is one of the main conflict in the Dragon Age universe but I think it's time to move on from this a bit. I mean...I'd take the exact same stance in the exact same conflict the fourth game in a row because for me the templars were always the villains in the story, and that's simply not very interesting. The story feels rather complete now, imo. 

 

Agreed. It's time to focus on other matters. Like the qunari, what ever is going on in Weisshaupt and of course Solas' plans.

 

It will be interesting if we get to see what the Circle and Templar Order is like in Tevinter, though! 

[Pasquale1234]

Yes, as seeing any kids running around with firecrackers or matches or lighters and burning stuff with it...

Firecrackers, matches, lighters are objects that children need to have access to and learn how to use, and they can be taken away from them.
 

What we need is education, to make people understand things, understand differences, respect and respond in positive way. Not preaching fear and hatred, not justifying bad policies by playing with sentiments, not playing politic with those justifications.

Education can certainly help, but there's always going to be a certain amount of fear and intolerance. BTW, the kind of education I think you're espousing here can also be construed as a form of preaching.
 

Accidents happen everywhere, accidents don't make something banned in society, isn't it? If accidents counts as justification, then we have to ban everything because everything can lead to accidents

Accidents have, in fact, led to bans of some things and loads of regulations in other areas. Fireworks were illegal in my city for many years. Many kinds of equipment including automobiles have loads of safety devices built into them, and are required by law.
 

It is a tiresome conflict, because the solutions are there, it only based on sentiment and prejudice, nothing other than that. All the excuses are to justify the sentiment and prejudice.

It's become tiresome because it's been a huge focus in the storylines in the last couple of games. I liked it as a background conflict in DAO, but it was brought to the forefront in DA2, where we were repeatedly beat over our heads with it in loads of extreme abuses on both sides. And after all of that, is anything actually going to change? I guess we'll see.
 

In other universe such as TES, evil Mages are evil Mages, good Mages are good Mages, everyone can use magic, there are people who dislike magic like Nords, but they are not extreme to the point of bigotry, everyone just accept it is a magical world, so what is it want to be huss and fuss about it? Daedras can come in anytime twisting peoples mind doing bad stuff, and there are literally devil worshipers everywhere...that's just the way the world is...

Well, TES games tend to have bigger worlds with loads of different kinds of questlines and content. You can spend hundreds of hours with a Skyrim character and never touch the main questline. You can create a character specifically to go through the Civil War on the Stormcloak side and another to go through the Civil War on the side of the Imperials. Thalmor Justicars will continue to march around with their prisoners, and you can attack them or ignore them. The choices and storylines don't generally go very deep, but they certainly are broad in scope.

DA games, otoh, present very specific main storylines and dig really deeply into the conflicts and issues they present. They created the status of mages in Thedas as part of the world-building to build in conflict that they could use to create their plotlines.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Does natural disasters have personalities, I wonder? I don't believe their Maker story, but if they really believe in the Maker, they're under the delusion that magic is a curse. Of course everything a creator does isn't good but a creator has reasons to do it. Also, I don't believe Blight is natural. Natural things are what a creator creates. Blights are probably what mortals unleashed on Thedas. I don't think it was a punishment.

 

Trespasser says that elves were there long before humans' Maker story which kinda looks like their Maker and Andraste may be some powerful elves. Also, if you noticed, Andruil's story kinda resembles Blight since it says, "Something ultimately drove Andruil mad, and she forgot herself and brought plague to her lands until Mythal successfully challenged her."

No, neither does have magic.Mages have and they are still a menace, personality isn't a necessary factor here.As i said that maker had a reason doesn't equatate to something being good or positive thing, as i said blights and darkspawn are maker creation and yet they are percived as a bad thing.According to chantry blight was created by the maker to punish magisters (whether it is true or not irrelevant, it is still something that chantry belives in).

 

So? Andraste lived after first blight and long after Arlathan fall.Irrevelant as i said even if it did existed before it was contained in black city untril magisters unleashed it. 

 

 

Can't?

Any non-mage that caused world-threating disaster? No? I tought i have already beat this horse to death in the past.

 

 

 

The solution: the idiot kids / adults / voters also need to be put in jail!

Hardly not even remote same level of threat.

[Almila_Lavellan]

So? Even if that was true, before the Veil there were god-like mages who enslaved everyone else in the world.

Ergo, magic is dangerous.

 

Magic is dangerous, just like all these templars with their big swords and lyrium addictions. Chantry isn't natural, it was created by mankind but magic and mages are natural. They were always in Thedas, even before the arrival of humans. Magic's being dangerous doesn't change the fact that it's also something natural. Magic is a tool and every tool can be used by malicious people for their own ends, just like templars who abuse their power and rape mages.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Magic is dangerous, just like all these templars with their big swords and lyrium addictions. Chantry isn't natural, it was created by mankind but magic and mages are natural. They were always in Thedas, even before the arrival of humans. Magic's being dangerous doesn't change the fact that it's also something natural. Magic is a tool and every tool can be used by malicious people for their own ends, just like templars who abuse their power and rape mages.

This is false equivalence, it is like comparing a knife to a nuclear bomb on basis that both are dangerous ignoring factor of how dangerous they are.Those templars with their big swords are nowhere near as dangerous as those mages with their blights, powers and demons.Plus, you live in fantasy world where just because something is natural it is good, what i have proven to be false.