5844 réponses à ce sujet

[AngryFrozenWater]

Even with loose affiliation for volunteer mods the company can still be blamed it's fun. The prime example I can think of is the Moderator of Payday 2 steam community.

 

But anyways this is based on my opinion.

Thanks again, Bryan.

 

Sure. I understand that you cannot speak for the management.

 

Is there a way around it? Like hosting the servers in another country. That's a wild guess, of course. No doubt EA has a professional legal team. Can they be consulted to investigate a way to avoid the problem you've mentioned?

[Bryan Johnson]

Sorry you had to put up with that.

 

I don't think Dev's should ever be moderators unless they really like it. It's frustrating at the best of times. Devs have their own deadline, milestones and crunch time to deal with. I've seen Allan blow his top on more than one occasion but there was nothing I could do about it to help. There really needs to be a dedicated community manager and a large rotating stable of both paid and volunteer mods for a format this size.

But I do appreciate the fact that some tried to mod and engage us fans. And yes I may rant about "PC" version of DAI but I am still a fan of most in BW including those that left BW and their games.

I do think there are deeper issues here. I've just seen EA's financial results. Dragon Age gets a mention but no Mass Effect at all that I can see. Maybe a typo that it was left out. I had thought ME was the flagship according to EA for so long.

(snip)
About Electronic Arts

Electronic Arts (NASDAQ:EA) is a global leader in digital interactive entertainment. The Company delivers games, content and online services for Internet-connected consoles, personal computers, mobile phones and tablets. EA has more than 300 million registered players around the world.

In fiscal year 2016, EA posted GAAP net revenue of $4.4 billion. Headquartered in Redwood City, California, EA is recognized for a portfolio of critically acclaimed, high-quality blockbuster brands such as The Sims™, Madden NFL, EA SPORTS™ FIFA, Battlefield™, Dragon Age™ and Plants vs. Zombies™. More information about EA is available at www.ea.com/news.

EA SPORTS, Battlefield, Battlefield 4, The Sims, Dragon Age, Ultimate Team and Plants vs. Zombies are trademarks of Electronic Arts Inc. and its subsidiaries. STAR WARS © & TM 2015 Lucasfilm Ltd. All rights reserved. Titanfall is a trademark of Respawn Entertainment, LLC. John Madden, NFL, NBA and FIFA are the property of their respective owners and used with permission.
(end snip)

Even if I didnt have power directly, people would claim I could just use the community manager (seen that happen before as well).

 

Also you are looking at the Earnings Report, so it only includes titles that were released in FY2016. DAI Had DLCs and GOTY if you are wondering.

[mrs_anomaly]

*Raises hand*

I'm not sure how many people posting here today have been hanging around since 2012, but at the time ME3's endings were overwhelmingly disliked by the majority of forumites and the main forum was flooded for weeks, if not months, with criticism. Of course there were also some who liked the endings.

While that was probably the craziest time in the lifespan of Bioware's official forums, I'd disagree with the "toxic" label. Emotions were running high and there was plenty of trolls, shitposts, and ratcheting up of the hyperbole ( welcome to the Internet), a great deal of the criticism was also well thought out and constructive. The majority of posters were not violating the ToS or flinging around personal insults at the devs.

Some of the wackier fan reactions to the ending controversy also weren't necessarily toxic. The indoctrination theorists may have been a bit too eager in trying to convert others to their interpretation of the endings, but they were harmless, and they were coming from a good place...enthusiasm and investment in the stories and characters Bioware created. There was also the whole Retake thing, but what was the worst thing they did? Sending red, green, and blue cupcakes to Bioware or raising money for a charity as publicity stunts? The horror!

That Bioware considered closing this place then, and is now carrying it out, just seems a bit like some higher ups at Bioware were unhappy that the great unwashed of the BSN had the temerity to give negative feedback on the official forums, instead of being an unpaid hype machine, all the time.

The best solution to avoid fan criticism isn't trying to muzzle your fans. It is creating quality products that don't have much to criticize, and not treating your fans like an embarrassing annoyance except for when you have a product you're trying to sell. See CD Projekt Red.

Thanks for answering, and much appreciated. 

 

I've been here since 2010 and I remember those times well. *sighs with nostalgia* 

 

It was an exciting time, all the guesses and what if's leading up to ME3 and then our reactions and discussions. It was EXCITING. So while I was not one that was happy about the conclusion I know for a damn fact I wasn't toxic. Most people were not. We were hyped and we were emotive and expressive. 

 

The thing is- all of that is better than "meh". Having a strong reaction is a sign of the passion that fans had for the franchise. You just have to be skillful with your PR to navigate through it properly. Which if I am going to level a criticism at Bioware- that is definitely something that has been proven to be a weak point for Bioware time and again. 

 

As for the whole idea of having Bioware devs be moderators or anything I frankly think that putting devs out to the forums for interaction is borderline stupid. It's not a dev job to mitigate the negative response to the company's IP. That's a PR job. 

[Bryan Johnson]

Thanks again, Bryan.

 

Sure. I understand that you cannot speak for the management.

 

Is there a way around it? Like hosting the servers in another country. That's a wild guess, of course. No doubt EA has a professional legal team. Can they be consulted to investigate a way to avoid the problem you've mentioned?

The problem I am talking about is, we would likely get our volunteer mods called BioDrones because you know we had a hand in picking them, 

[LPPrince]

Hell I was accused of having sway and I'm not even an employee of Bioware, I'm just the top poster. That alone put me in a weird position.

[LPPrince]

The problem I am talking about is, we would likely get our volunteer mods called BioDrones because you know we had a hand in picking them, 

 

I'd like to be more optimistic than that, but I see it as a sad reality in some cases. Any community mods who were active a few years ago(2009-2012) could probably weigh in on how public perception of them went.

[Rifneno]

Here's something else I've been thinking about. How many users registered on this forum are actually the ones that spent hours and days and weeks posting about how the ending of ME3 sucked?

I sure as hell didn't. I was with the IT group. We had 6000 pages of praise for BW and speculative analysis of the game. What did they do? They banned the topic, and permabanned anyone who questioned the decision or dared to mention IT anyway. While they didn't technically ban everyone that "fell in line", they might as well have. The few that tried to stay around were harassed, ridiculed, and treated like lepers. They couldn't even talk about other topics because they were a known "crazy person." Unlike the way they permabanned us for the slightest thing, these attacks were ignored by the mod team.

Bioware deserves to be hammered with nothing but "toxicity" when they treat their fans like they do.

[SmilesJA]

I keep seeing posts condemning all the negativity at DA2 when it was released, saying they liked the game. At least half a dozen of those posts through the thread.

If you liked that game, fine. Good for you. But don't pretend the complaints weren't justified. They absolutely were. The game had many huge flaws that were not simply a matter of opinion. The recycled dungeons, the way the game offers you choices and then rolls its eyes and slaps your hand away if you reach for the wrong one, the sheer nonsensicality of the story, the absurd battles with wave after wave jumping down from rooftops like it's a crappy early 90's beat 'em up game... these things aren't "My favorite color is red and yours is blue", these are objectively bad things. The game was miles below Bioware's standard and with its hilarious short development cycle that's to be expected.

The fact that BSN didn't like DA2 doesn't prove it was "toxic", it proves it had some standards.


 

 

They were huge flaws in your mind not others.

[skuid]

IMO the decision to completely remove the forums content is counterproductive and it will damage them in the long term. There are tons of information about their own games made by a lot of fans helping each others as a way of showing their passion for Bioware games. Removing all of it just feels like a punch to the face. For that reason, I decided to unlike all the Bioware, Dragon Age and Mass Effect Facebook pages as I only like them before as a means to support them and not to follow news (I rarely use Facebook). This might look as a childish approach but it is my way of showing my disagreement about the decision to completely wipe out the forums. I will buy MEA for sure, just not day one, I will wait for a discount as I don't have any rush to avoid spoilers here while navigating these forums anymore.

 

I have three mods stored in the old BSN project section which are of different nature:

• Etain Morph and Warpaint (DAO & DA2): mod for DAO and DA2 consisting of several face textures.
• DA Normal Map and Height Map converter: A tool to generate normal maps in both DAO and DA2 formats. 
• Mass Effect Fighters Alliance v1.1 (Space combat fan made videogame): A stand alone game made from some ME assets.

The first one I could move it to the Nexus but I don't know about the other two. I was still developing some stuff for the space combat videogame, I had almost all the framework ready to start developing a story with dialogues and decisions but, honestly, after the news about the forums I don't know if I want to keep working on it.

 

Anyway, I stil hope they reconsider and at least keep the forums in a read only state although this seems unlikely.

[FieryDove]

Even if I didnt have power directly, people would claim I could just use the community manager (seen that happen before as well).

 

Also you are looking at the Earnings Report, so it only includes titles that were released in FY2016. DAI Had DLCs and GOTY if you are wondering.

 

If people would claim that I would...ignore them? Unless of course they said other things that required action. I was a mod both volunteer and paid for years on various sites as well as an admin/community manager type thing. It gets frustrating but if it ever got to me I would step away, take a breath if that didn't help I would have resigned. Luckily that never happened.

 

Honestly long ago when things were getting feisty here I would wave a white flag...peace everyone please stop fighting. But no...I said in this one thread everyone should be banned! Yes that includes me..lol  I don't know how others did but Stanley seemed to ban quite a few. Some still harbor ill will to this day indicated by the mocking user name and end of rine comments. Some people did need to be perma banned, or at least longer than 24/48 hours. It just was not going to get better in this large forum that way.

 

About the EA thing, so EA would only post about EA the properties that had content come out this year? Still seems odd and I didn't know DA had anything come out recent. Trespasser was like aug 2015 and goty was what Oct? What did I miss?

 

Cheers,

FD

[Iakus]

That is a very good question, IMO it is all about short term effects and long term effects. Most people are impatient, while others persevere, the latter usually survives

 

First game is bad, devs follow up? If yes, possibility for purchasing second game will look good, if no, then it is farewell, people don't need business degrees to understand that. Business needs to grow and adapt if it wants to survive

 

Keeping this forum alive is a form of adaptation, if the business manages this place well and be proactive. Closing this place, counter-productive because everyone else already use other mediums

 

You might say: But other studios also have their own forums, so maybe closing this place down may be a better alternative... No because this forum is only unique to this business while Facebook is not unique because it caters to everyone, only BW gamers are privy to this forum's user interface and features, BW culture and values

 

EDIT: to add, it is about brand loyalty, this forum promotes that because of its ability to create emotional attachment, as evident by the many passionate, angry posts, even lurkers come out and voiced their opinions. Facebook, on the other hand, feels like an impersonal tool, in comparison, it sends you lots of ads and reminders but not much information, I highly doubt a rational being will simply just fall in love without knowing anything and do exactly what some Facebook page tells them to do, in short, Facebook simply does not have that personal bond this forum has with many gamers

I have a hard time thinking other game companies don't have similar problems to here, yet they somehow manage to keep things running without nuking everything.

[Han Shot First]

Thanks for answering, and much appreciated.

I've been here since 2010 and I remember those times well. *sighs with nostalgia*

It was an exciting time, all the guesses and what if's leading up to ME3 and then our reactions and discussions. It was EXCITING. So while I was not one that was happy about the conclusion I know for a damn fact I wasn't toxic. Most people were not. We were hyped and we were emotive and expressive.

The thing is- all of that is better than "meh". Having a strong reaction is a sign of the passion that fans had for the franchise. You just have to be skillful with your PR to navigate through it properly. Which if I am going to level a criticism at Bioware- that is definitely something that has been proven to be a weak point for Bioware time and again.

As for the whole idea of having Bioware devs be moderators or anything I frankly think that putting devs out to the forums for interaction is borderline stupid. It's not a dev job to mitigate the negative response to the company's IP. That's a PR job.

Even the ending controversy was partly sustained by Bioware's bad PR. Bad PR doesn't excuse some of the more obnoxious behavior by some of the fans of course, but Bioware's mishandling of the reaction to the endings was like gasoline to a flame.

Implying those who didn't like the endings just didn't understand them, or touting the perfect scores awarded by gaming journalists, gave the impression that Bioware thought its fans were cretins whose opinions mattered less than those of critics who get paid to play and review games and who likely didn't even complete ME3 before publishing. That's obviously not the image they wanted to convey, but it shouldn't have been a surprise that it would be the takeaway for many fans.

[Bryan Johnson]

If people would claim that I would...ignore them? Unless of course they said other things that required action. I was a mod both volunteer and paid for years on various sites as well as an admin/community manager type thing. It gets frustrating but if it ever got to me I would step away, take a breath if that didn't help I would have resigned. Luckily that never happened.

 

Honestly long ago when things were getting feisty here I would wave a white flag...peace everyone please stop fighting. But no...I said in this one thread everyone should be banned! Yes that includes me..lol  I don't know how others did but Stanley seemed to ban quite a few. Some still harbor ill will to this day indicated by the mocking user name and end of rine comments. Some people did need to be perma banned, or at least longer than 24/48 hours. It just was not going to get better in this large forum that way.

 

About the EA thing, so EA would only post about EA the properties that had content come out this year? Still seems odd and I didn't know DA had anything come out recent. Trespasser was like aug 2015 and goty was what Oct? What did I miss?

 

Cheers,

FD

I am saying for me, I generally dont use power unless it is required to do so (something that no one would argue is not against to the ToS). Back on the BSN there was one person that continuously went after me, that I left the forums for a while (even then I didnt ban that person). There was then a long apology thread from the fans that got locked by Stan as being offtopic. But still been accused of censorship a number of times and that kind of thing catches on.

 

Also the EA thing, FY (Fiscal Year) is a bit odd and it runs from April to March. So we are currently in FY2017 (April 1 2016 - March 31 2017) so by stating FY16 it is April 1 2015 - March 31 2016 so yes those products fell into that thus BF is listed since it had products in that FY

[Wolven_Soul]

If you cannot stand the fact that some of us are upset about our forums closing why are you even in here? 

 

Also choosing not to purchase further games from Bioware is a valid response to cumulative disappoints. 

 

Disagreeing with this forum closure and commenting about it in the wake of this decision is more than just "whining". I'm pretty sure that most of us in here are highly aware that nothing we say here is going to reverse the decision and I've only seen a few people who have crossed a line regarding remarks about this closure, ie, acting completely immaturely or saying something uncalled for. 

 

There have always been a few bad members of this forum- but they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 

 

If we want to pick apart the reasons, lament, comfort each other, walk down memory lane, raise our metaphorical fists in the air with anger (respectfully), opine and commiserate I see this as no "further proof" that our space be scorched off the Earth you dig?

 

I have learned in the past that debating with Elhanan is akin to banging your head against a brick wall, or perhaps more accurately, like endlessly running around in circles.  I have never been able to decide if he is serious, or if he is just a troll.  Still can't.  Either way, I am even going to miss him. 

[mrs_anomaly]

I have learned in the past that debating with Elhanan is akin to banging your head against a brick wall, or perhaps more accurately, like endlessly running around in circles.  I have never been able to decide if he is serious, or if he is just a troll.  Still can't.  Either way, I am even going to miss him. 

You are not wrong. 

 

This is all so depressing. I have decided I'm not buying anymore Bioware games moving forward and it's really a bummer. I'm probably not even going to talk about games online anymore. 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

 

I don't think Dev's should ever be moderators unless they really like it.

 

Brojo can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the system works (and in the past more or less worked) like this:

 

The developers have moderation privileges activated on their accounts, and certain administrative privileges over forums associated directly with their purview (In Brojo's case, as QA for ME 3 MP at the time, that would be the ME 3 Multiplayer forum.)

 

Their role as moderators is functionally similar to that of the volunteers, but they are not required to act as moderators as part of their duties. For some, doing so would be an inevitable byproduct of their involvement in the forum. For the majority, though, it was their preference not to.

 

I believe that has been true for the 4 or 5 years that I've been around.

[Rifneno]

They were huge flaws in your mind not others.

They were huge flaws because the game was highly disliked by fans. Deal with it.

[Han Shot First]

You are not wrong. 
 
This is all so depressing. I have decided I'm not buying anymore Bioware games moving forward and it's really a bummer. I'm probably not even going to talk about games online anymore.

You don't have to like the artist to appreciate the art.

If you're interested in one of Bioware's games it would be better to buy used, if the closing of the BSN is an unforgivable bridge burner for you. You don't miss out on the game you otherwise might enjoy, but your money goes entirely to the retailer.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

There was then a long apology thread from the fans

 

I remember a few days later when every thread on ME multiplayer's front page had a BioWare tag on it.

 

[Wolven_Soul]

I keep seeing posts condemning all the negativity at DA2 when it was released, saying they liked the game. At least half a dozen of those posts through the thread.

If you liked that game, fine. Good for you. But don't pretend the complaints weren't justified. They absolutely were. The game had many huge flaws that were not simply a matter of opinion. The recycled dungeons, the way the game offers you choices and then rolls its eyes and slaps your hand away if you reach for the wrong one, the sheer nonsensicality of the story, the absurd battles with wave after wave jumping down from rooftops like it's a crappy early 90's beat 'em up game... these things aren't "My favorite color is red and yours is blue", these are objectively bad things. The game was miles below Bioware's standard and with its hilarious short development cycle that's to be expected.

The fact that BSN didn't like DA2 doesn't prove it was "toxic", it proves it had some standards.
 

 

Agreed whole heartedly.  Love the game all that you want, it and DA:I.  I would never hold that against a person.  In fact, I envy their ability to love those games.  Just don't try and pretend like they don't have huge flaws. 

[AngryFrozenWater]

The problem I am talking about is, we would likely get our volunteer mods called BioDrones because you know we had a hand in picking them, 

Thanks.

 

Mwah. Not sure about that, though. Of course you have to handpick them. There has to be a proper selection. I've seen a volunteer mod capable of constructive criticism on a forum of a game, which name must not be uttered here. He seems to be able to manage both sides of an argument. A proper discussion technique, like many of us don't possess, is a requirement. The whole idea falls or stands with trust. Backup the idea and tell exactly why you do it. Make that public. Educate these mods in the way I've proposed. I'll bet that, if BW was supporting such an open plan, that they'll praise you guys in heaven, because the alternative is continue with the plan to close the forums down.

 

There seems to be little trust on both sides. One of those sides needs to take the initiative, otherwise nothing ever happens, except the fragmentation of this community. Closing is the easy way out, especially because other companies seem to be successful. It's proof that it can be done.

[Wolven_Soul]

*Raises hand*

I'm not sure how many people posting here today have been hanging around since 2012, but at the time ME3's endings were overwhelmingly disliked by the majority of forumites and the main forum was flooded for weeks, if not months, with criticism. Of course there were also some who liked the endings.

While that was probably the craziest time in the lifespan of Bioware's official forums, I'd disagree with the "toxic" label. Emotions were running high and there was plenty of trolls, shitposts, and ratcheting up of the hyperbole ( welcome to the Internet), a great deal of the criticism was also well thought out and constructive. The majority of posters were not violating the ToS or flinging around personal insults at the devs.

Some of the wackier fan reactions to the ending controversy also weren't necessarily toxic. The indoctrination theorists may have been a bit too eager in trying to convert others to their interpretation of the endings, but they were harmless, and they were coming from a good place...enthusiasm and investment in the stories and characters Bioware created. There was also the whole Retake thing, but what was the worst thing they did? Sending red, green, and blue cupcakes to Bioware or raising money for a charity as publicity stunts? The horror!

That Bioware considered closing this place then, and is now carrying it out, just seems a bit like some higher ups at Bioware were unhappy that the great unwashed of the BSN had the temerity to give negative feedback on the official forums, instead of being an unpaid hype machine, all the time.

The best solution to avoid fan criticism isn't trying to muzzle your fans. It is creating quality products that don't have much to criticize, and not treating your fans like an embarrassing annoyance except for when you have a product you're trying to sell. See CD Projekt Red.

 

Me as well.  I think I spent more time railing against ME3's endings than I did actually playing the game.  I was only able to do one playthrough and I only watched the EC through YouTube videos, found them dissatisfying, and refused to do another one.  I spent more time in the game's MP than I did with the actual game, and I thought the addition of MP was a horrible idea in the beginning.  Changed my mind about that though.

[mrs_anomaly]

I keep seeing posts condemning all the negativity at DA2 when it was released, saying they liked the game. At least half a dozen of those posts through the thread.

If you liked that game, fine. Good for you. But don't pretend the complaints weren't justified. They absolutely were. The game had many huge flaws that were not simply a matter of opinion. The recycled dungeons, the way the game offers you choices and then rolls its eyes and slaps your hand away if you reach for the wrong one, the sheer nonsensicality of the story, the absurd battles with wave after wave jumping down from rooftops like it's a crappy early 90's beat 'em up game... these things aren't "My favorite color is red and yours is blue", these are objectively bad things. The game was miles below Bioware's standard and with its hilarious short development cycle that's to be expected.

The fact that BSN didn't like DA2 doesn't prove it was "toxic", it proves it had some standards.


Actually there are secessionists in every state and Texas has barely more than most other states. The difference is that secessionists in other states realize it's a pipe dream and Texas has more people who don't understand how anything in the world works. Texas doesn't have more secessionists, Texas has more secessionists that are under the absurd notion it's realistic. If they actually thought about the consequences of it: the fact that everything coming from the US would now be more expensive because it's imported goods and customs is a thing that exists, the fact they'd need their own military, the fact that Texan soldiers stationed in the US would be forced to leave Texas to protect the country they swore to protect or face court marshal, the fact that the US government wouldn't let them go without a fight and they'd get raped in a second Civil War, or even the simple fact that they're a loud minority and the great majority of Texans do not want to secede... then they'd realize they're living in a fantasy world where 2+2=banana.

Instead, all they see is that the state gives more than it takes. Which, BTW, it wouldn't continue to make once all the big companies down there pack up and head to the US the second Texas leaves. It's extra funny because all the extra money they give to the feds, the feds give back to the rest of the south. Texas is about the only southern red state that pulls its weight. The rest of the bible belt takes FAR more than it gives. So Texas isn't helping "them damn New England liberals" (who, like Texas, give more than they take), they're helping their own idealogical and physical neighbors.

But whatever. Texit.

Just saying, I'm a Texan and my entire family is (although I'm an import) and I know zero persons that want to secede. Zero. I mean ONCE I saw another mother with her BMW x5 in front of me dropping our kids off at the Montessori and she had a secede Texas bumper sticker but she's the only person I've ever seen with that. 

 

Also, *looks at watch* this decision still sucks. 

[mrs_anomaly]

You don't have to like the artist to appreciate the art.

If you're interested in one of Bioware's games it would be better to buy used, if the closing of the BSN is an unforgivable bridge burner for you. You don't miss out on the game you otherwise might enjoy, but your money goes entirely to the retailer.

You're completely right. 

 

I'm a huge reader (I read hundreds of books a year) and I have quit mid series in books if something really makes me irate about an author. I don't post reviews about it on Goodreads or Amazon or tweet vitriol- I just stop buying their books.

 

I do not go looking or witch hunting the artists of the media I enjoy but if something comes to my attention that I strongly disagree with morally or ethically I'm out. 

 

Also not saying Bioware is unethical or morally dubious I just cannot overlook this terrible decision. 

[Vigilant111]

Thanks.

 

Mwah. Not sure about that, though. Of course you have to handpick them. There has to be a proper selection. I've seen a volunteer mod capable of constructive criticism on a forum of a game, which name must not be uttered here. He seems to be able to manage both sides of an argument. A proper discussion technique, like many of us don't possess, is a requirement. The whole idea falls or stands with trust. Backup the idea and tell exactly why you do it. Make that public. Educate these mods in the way I've proposed. I'll bet that, if BW was supporting such an open plan, that they'll praise you guys in heaven, because the alternative is continue with the plan to close the forums down.

 

There seems to be little trust on both sides. One of those sides needs to take the initiative, otherwise nothing ever happens, except the fragmentation of this community. Closing is the easy way out, especially because other companies seem to be successful.

 

Yes, the moderation must be upgraded from the traditional "Stop fighting or you will all get banned." approach. Mods must possess good interpersonal communication skills as this will greatly help promote a more respectful environment

 

EDIT: I would also add that, mods should uphold the interests of the forum community ONLY and not anything else