Having employees not have moderating powers and only allowing for fans, is potential grounds for litigation. Also as stated this is my opinion I have no idea about other employees, the only people I have ever really talked to about the forums is Jesse, and Allan.
Thanks for your answer. 
Other companies have forums for many years, which are moderated by volunteers. Obviously these have the backup of the community manager and/or system admin. Are these potentially in legal trouble then?
I don't think that I have actually ever posted since the BSN forums. But, ya. It speaks volumes about the devs own opinion of ME:A.
edit: I just started another play through of DAO. Where do I go? STEAM forums? Reddit?
Steam's DAO forums are quite large and have a decent amount of traffic. There's no organization to the threads, though; they're all jumbled together.
It's not a book, it's a stage play but sorry about the spoilers still.
From what I just read in that review, I don't mind it being spoiled. Good freaking grief it sounds atrocious.
Thanks for your answer.
Other companies have forums for many years, which are moderated by volunteers. Obviously these have the backup of the community manager and/or system admin. Are these potentially in legal trouble then?
Even with loose affiliation for volunteer mods the company can still be blamed it's fun. The prime example I can think of is the Moderator of Payday 2 steam community.
But anyways this is based on my opinion.
*Raises hand*Here's something else I've been thinking about. How many users registered on this forum are actually the ones that spent hours and days and weeks posting about how the ending of ME3 sucked?
I'm not saying those people should be ip banned from the forums (as IF lol, plus, this would be such an act of censorship as to render the forums unusable for true discussion) but how many were there? How many people truly railed against Bioware on this forum?
Agreed, but how do you convince the corporate higher ups who see numbers as being worth more than time and value?
That is a very good question, IMO it is all about short term effects and long term effects. Most people are impatient, while others persevere, the latter usually survives
First game is bad, devs follow up? If yes, possibility for purchasing second game will look good, if no, then it is farewell, people don't need business degrees to understand that. Business needs to grow and adapt if it wants to survive
Keeping this forum alive is a form of adaptation, if the business manages this place well and be proactive. Closing this place, counter-productive because everyone else already use other mediums
You might say: But other studios also have their own forums, so maybe closing this place down may be a better alternative... No because this forum is only unique to this business while Facebook is not unique because it caters to everyone, only BW gamers are privy to this forum's user interface and features, BW culture and values
EDIT: to add, it is about brand loyalty, this forum promotes that because of its ability to create emotional attachment, as evident by the many passionate, angry posts, even lurkers come out and voiced their opinions. Facebook, on the other hand, feels like an impersonal tool, in comparison, it sends you lots of ads and reminders but not much information, I highly doubt a rational being will simply just fall in love without knowing anything and do exactly what some Facebook page tells them to do, in short, Facebook simply does not have that personal bond this forum has with many gamers
Even with loose affiliation for volunteer mods the company can still be blamed it's fun. The prime example I can think of is the Moderator of Payday 2 steam community.
But anyways this is based on my opinion.
Damn. Reminds me of back in the day when Bioware was still looking for new community mods. The fielding process was crazy;no suspensions whatsoever for any reason, had to have a notable known presence on the forum(so no newbie scrubs), had to have a solid awareness of the site rules(naturally), be mature(naturally), etc etc
I remember suggesting a few as community mods but those folks never got the position. A friend did but he messed up and had his privileges revoked(then again I could've told him sticking his own thread about a problem he had was ridiculous).
Still, community mods make the place feel more comfortable. Its weird when its just developers. It goes from weird to militant when its a third party that no one here knows or can identify with.
Here I am again missing the olden days and wishing we could go back to that relationship between fans, devs, and the forum.
With the amount of times I get accused of censorship, being in a place where that isnt even in the realm of possibility has an appeal. But that is just me personally.
Sorry you had to put up with that.
I don't think Dev's should ever be moderators unless they really like it. It's frustrating at the best of times. Devs have their own deadline, milestones and crunch time to deal with. I've seen Allan blow his top on more than one occasion but there was nothing I could do about it to help. There really needs to be a dedicated community manager and a large rotating stable of both paid and volunteer mods for a format this size.
But I do appreciate the fact that some tried to mod and engage us fans. And yes I may rant about "PC" version of DAI but I am still a fan of most in BW including those that left BW and their games.
I do think there are deeper issues here. I've just seen EA's financial results. Dragon Age gets a mention but no Mass Effect at all that I can see. Maybe a typo that it was left out. I had thought ME was the flagship according to EA for so long.
(snip)
About Electronic Arts
Electronic Arts (NASDAQ:EA) is a global leader in digital interactive entertainment. The Company delivers games, content and online services for Internet-connected consoles, personal computers, mobile phones and tablets. EA has more than 300 million registered players around the world.
In fiscal year 2016, EA posted GAAP net revenue of $4.4 billion. Headquartered in Redwood City, California, EA is recognized for a portfolio of critically acclaimed, high-quality blockbuster brands such as The Sims™, Madden NFL, EA SPORTS™ FIFA, Battlefield™, Dragon Age™ and Plants vs. Zombies™. More information about EA is available at www.ea.com/news.
EA SPORTS, Battlefield, Battlefield 4, The Sims, Dragon Age, Ultimate Team and Plants vs. Zombies are trademarks of Electronic Arts Inc. and its subsidiaries. STAR WARS © & TM 2015 Lucasfilm Ltd. All rights reserved. Titanfall is a trademark of Respawn Entertainment, LLC. John Madden, NFL, NBA and FIFA are the property of their respective owners and used with permission.
(end snip)
Even with loose affiliation for volunteer mods the company can still be blamed it's fun. The prime example I can think of is the Moderator of Payday 2 steam community.
But anyways this is based on my opinion.
Thanks again, Bryan.
Sure. I understand that you cannot speak for the management.
Is there a way around it? Like hosting the servers in another country. That's a wild guess, of course. No doubt EA has a professional legal team. Can they be consulted to investigate a way to avoid the problem you've mentioned?
Sorry you had to put up with that.
I don't think Dev's should ever be moderators unless they really like it. It's frustrating at the best of times. Devs have their own deadline, milestones and crunch time to deal with. I've seen Allan blow his top on more than one occasion but there was nothing I could do about it to help. There really needs to be a dedicated community manager and a large rotating stable of both paid and volunteer mods for a format this size.
But I do appreciate the fact that some tried to mod and engage us fans. And yes I may rant about "PC" version of DAI but I am still a fan of most in BW including those that left BW and their games.
I do think there are deeper issues here. I've just seen EA's financial results. Dragon Age gets a mention but no Mass Effect at all that I can see. Maybe a typo that it was left out. I had thought ME was the flagship according to EA for so long.(snip)
About Electronic Arts
Electronic Arts (NASDAQ:EA) is a global leader in digital interactive entertainment. The Company delivers games, content and online services for Internet-connected consoles, personal computers, mobile phones and tablets. EA has more than 300 million registered players around the world.
In fiscal year 2016, EA posted GAAP net revenue of $4.4 billion. Headquartered in Redwood City, California, EA is recognized for a portfolio of critically acclaimed, high-quality blockbuster brands such as The Sims™, Madden NFL, EA SPORTS™ FIFA, Battlefield™, Dragon Age™ and Plants vs. Zombies™. More information about EA is available at www.ea.com/news.
EA SPORTS, Battlefield, Battlefield 4, The Sims, Dragon Age, Ultimate Team and Plants vs. Zombies are trademarks of Electronic Arts Inc. and its subsidiaries. STAR WARS © & TM 2015 Lucasfilm Ltd. All rights reserved. Titanfall is a trademark of Respawn Entertainment, LLC. John Madden, NFL, NBA and FIFA are the property of their respective owners and used with permission.
(end snip)
Even if I didnt have power directly, people would claim I could just use the community manager (seen that happen before as well).
Also you are looking at the Earnings Report, so it only includes titles that were released in FY2016. DAI Had DLCs and GOTY if you are wondering.
*Raises hand*
I'm not sure how many people posting here today have been hanging around since 2012, but at the time ME3's endings were overwhelmingly disliked by the majority of forumites and the main forum was flooded for weeks, if not months, with criticism. Of course there were also some who liked the endings.
While that was probably the craziest time in the lifespan of Bioware's official forums, I'd disagree with the "toxic" label. Emotions were running high and there was plenty of trolls, shitposts, and ratcheting up of the hyperbole ( welcome to the Internet), a great deal of the criticism was also well thought out and constructive. The majority of posters were not violating the ToS or flinging around personal insults at the devs.
Some of the wackier fan reactions to the ending controversy also weren't necessarily toxic. The indoctrination theorists may have been a bit too eager in trying to convert others to their interpretation of the endings, but they were harmless, and they were coming from a good place...enthusiasm and investment in the stories and characters Bioware created. There was also the whole Retake thing, but what was the worst thing they did? Sending red, green, and blue cupcakes to Bioware or raising money for a charity as publicity stunts? The horror!
That Bioware considered closing this place then, and is now carrying it out, just seems a bit like some higher ups at Bioware were unhappy that the great unwashed of the BSN had the temerity to give negative feedback on the official forums, instead of being an unpaid hype machine, all the time.
The best solution to avoid fan criticism isn't trying to muzzle your fans. It is creating quality products that don't have much to criticize, and not treating your fans like an embarrassing annoyance except for when you have a product you're trying to sell. See CD Projekt Red.
Thanks for answering, and much appreciated.
I've been here since 2010 and I remember those times well. *sighs with nostalgia*
It was an exciting time, all the guesses and what if's leading up to ME3 and then our reactions and discussions. It was EXCITING. So while I was not one that was happy about the conclusion I know for a damn fact I wasn't toxic. Most people were not. We were hyped and we were emotive and expressive.
The thing is- all of that is better than "meh". Having a strong reaction is a sign of the passion that fans had for the franchise. You just have to be skillful with your PR to navigate through it properly. Which if I am going to level a criticism at Bioware- that is definitely something that has been proven to be a weak point for Bioware time and again.
As for the whole idea of having Bioware devs be moderators or anything I frankly think that putting devs out to the forums for interaction is borderline stupid. It's not a dev job to mitigate the negative response to the company's IP. That's a PR job.
Thanks again, Bryan.
Sure. I understand that you cannot speak for the management.
Is there a way around it? Like hosting the servers in another country. That's a wild guess, of course. No doubt EA has a professional legal team. Can they be consulted to investigate a way to avoid the problem you've mentioned?
The problem I am talking about is, we would likely get our volunteer mods called BioDrones because you know we had a hand in picking them,
Hell I was accused of having sway and I'm not even an employee of Bioware, I'm just the top poster. That alone put me in a weird position.
The problem I am talking about is, we would likely get our volunteer mods called BioDrones because you know we had a hand in picking them,
I'd like to be more optimistic than that, but I see it as a sad reality in some cases. Any community mods who were active a few years ago(2009-2012) could probably weigh in on how public perception of them went.
Here's something else I've been thinking about. How many users registered on this forum are actually the ones that spent hours and days and weeks posting about how the ending of ME3 sucked?
I keep seeing posts condemning all the negativity at DA2 when it was released, saying they liked the game. At least half a dozen of those posts through the thread.
If you liked that game, fine. Good for you. But don't pretend the complaints weren't justified. They absolutely were. The game had many huge flaws that were not simply a matter of opinion. The recycled dungeons, the way the game offers you choices and then rolls its eyes and slaps your hand away if you reach for the wrong one, the sheer nonsensicality of the story, the absurd battles with wave after wave jumping down from rooftops like it's a crappy early 90's beat 'em up game... these things aren't "My favorite color is red and yours is blue", these are objectively bad things. The game was miles below Bioware's standard and with its hilarious short development cycle that's to be expected.
The fact that BSN didn't like DA2 doesn't prove it was "toxic", it proves it had some standards.
They were huge flaws in your mind not others.
IMO the decision to completely remove the forums content is counterproductive and it will damage them in the long term. There are tons of information about their own games made by a lot of fans helping each others as a way of showing their passion for Bioware games. Removing all of it just feels like a punch to the face. For that reason, I decided to unlike all the Bioware, Dragon Age and Mass Effect Facebook pages as I only like them before as a means to support them and not to follow news (I rarely use Facebook). This might look as a childish approach but it is my way of showing my disagreement about the decision to completely wipe out the forums. I will buy MEA for sure, just not day one, I will wait for a discount as I don't have any rush to avoid spoilers here while navigating these forums anymore.
I have three mods stored in the old BSN project section which are of different nature:
The first one I could move it to the Nexus but I don't know about the other two. I was still developing some stuff for the space combat videogame, I had almost all the framework ready to start developing a story with dialogues and decisions but, honestly, after the news about the forums I don't know if I want to keep working on it.
Anyway, I stil hope they reconsider and at least keep the forums in a read only state although this seems unlikely.
Even if I didnt have power directly, people would claim I could just use the community manager (seen that happen before as well).
Also you are looking at the Earnings Report, so it only includes titles that were released in FY2016. DAI Had DLCs and GOTY if you are wondering.
If people would claim that I would...ignore them? Unless of course they said other things that required action. I was a mod both volunteer and paid for years on various sites as well as an admin/community manager type thing. It gets frustrating but if it ever got to me I would step away, take a breath if that didn't help I would have resigned. Luckily that never happened.
Honestly long ago when things were getting feisty here I would wave a white flag...peace everyone please stop fighting. But no...I said in this one thread everyone should be banned! Yes that includes me..lol I don't know how others did but Stanley seemed to ban quite a few. Some still harbor ill will to this day indicated by the mocking user name and end of rine comments. Some people did need to be perma banned, or at least longer than 24/48 hours. It just was not going to get better in this large forum that way.
About the EA thing, so EA would only post about EA the properties that had content come out this year? Still seems odd and I didn't know DA had anything come out recent. Trespasser was like aug 2015 and goty was what Oct? What did I miss?
Cheers,
FD
That is a very good question, IMO it is all about short term effects and long term effects. Most people are impatient, while others persevere, the latter usually survives
First game is bad, devs follow up? If yes, possibility for purchasing second game will look good, if no, then it is farewell, people don't need business degrees to understand that. Business needs to grow and adapt if it wants to survive
Keeping this forum alive is a form of adaptation, if the business manages this place well and be proactive. Closing this place, counter-productive because everyone else already use other mediums
You might say: But other studios also have their own forums, so maybe closing this place down may be a better alternative... No because this forum is only unique to this business while Facebook is not unique because it caters to everyone, only BW gamers are privy to this forum's user interface and features, BW culture and values
EDIT: to add, it is about brand loyalty, this forum promotes that because of its ability to create emotional attachment, as evident by the many passionate, angry posts, even lurkers come out and voiced their opinions. Facebook, on the other hand, feels like an impersonal tool, in comparison, it sends you lots of ads and reminders but not much information, I highly doubt a rational being will simply just fall in love without knowing anything and do exactly what some Facebook page tells them to do, in short, Facebook simply does not have that personal bond this forum has with many gamers
I have a hard time thinking other game companies don't have similar problems to here, yet they somehow manage to keep things running without nuking everything.
Even the ending controversy was partly sustained by Bioware's bad PR. Bad PR doesn't excuse some of the more obnoxious behavior by some of the fans of course, but Bioware's mishandling of the reaction to the endings was like gasoline to a flame.Thanks for answering, and much appreciated.
I've been here since 2010 and I remember those times well. *sighs with nostalgia*
It was an exciting time, all the guesses and what if's leading up to ME3 and then our reactions and discussions. It was EXCITING. So while I was not one that was happy about the conclusion I know for a damn fact I wasn't toxic. Most people were not. We were hyped and we were emotive and expressive.
The thing is- all of that is better than "meh". Having a strong reaction is a sign of the passion that fans had for the franchise. You just have to be skillful with your PR to navigate through it properly. Which if I am going to level a criticism at Bioware- that is definitely something that has been proven to be a weak point for Bioware time and again.
As for the whole idea of having Bioware devs be moderators or anything I frankly think that putting devs out to the forums for interaction is borderline stupid. It's not a dev job to mitigate the negative response to the company's IP. That's a PR job.
If people would claim that I would...ignore them? Unless of course they said other things that required action. I was a mod both volunteer and paid for years on various sites as well as an admin/community manager type thing. It gets frustrating but if it ever got to me I would step away, take a breath if that didn't help I would have resigned. Luckily that never happened.
Honestly long ago when things were getting feisty here I would wave a white flag...peace everyone please stop fighting. But no...I said in this one thread everyone should be banned! Yes that includes me..lol I don't know how others did but Stanley seemed to ban quite a few. Some still harbor ill will to this day indicated by the mocking user name and end of rine comments. Some people did need to be perma banned, or at least longer than 24/48 hours. It just was not going to get better in this large forum that way.
About the EA thing, so EA would only post about EA the properties that had content come out this year? Still seems odd and I didn't know DA had anything come out recent. Trespasser was like aug 2015 and goty was what Oct? What did I miss?
Cheers,
FD
I am saying for me, I generally dont use power unless it is required to do so (something that no one would argue is not against to the ToS). Back on the BSN there was one person that continuously went after me, that I left the forums for a while (even then I didnt ban that person). There was then a long apology thread from the fans that got locked by Stan as being offtopic. But still been accused of censorship a number of times and that kind of thing catches on.
Also the EA thing, FY (Fiscal Year) is a bit odd and it runs from April to March. So we are currently in FY2017 (April 1 2016 - March 31 2017) so by stating FY16 it is April 1 2015 - March 31 2016 so yes those products fell into that thus BF is listed since it had products in that FY
If you cannot stand the fact that some of us are upset about our forums closing why are you even in here?
Also choosing not to purchase further games from Bioware is a valid response to cumulative disappoints.
Disagreeing with this forum closure and commenting about it in the wake of this decision is more than just "whining". I'm pretty sure that most of us in here are highly aware that nothing we say here is going to reverse the decision and I've only seen a few people who have crossed a line regarding remarks about this closure, ie, acting completely immaturely or saying something uncalled for.
There have always been a few bad members of this forum- but they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
If we want to pick apart the reasons, lament, comfort each other, walk down memory lane, raise our metaphorical fists in the air with anger (respectfully), opine and commiserate I see this as no "further proof" that our space be scorched off the Earth you dig?
I have learned in the past that debating with Elhanan is akin to banging your head against a brick wall, or perhaps more accurately, like endlessly running around in circles. I have never been able to decide if he is serious, or if he is just a troll. Still can't. Either way, I am even going to miss him.
I have learned in the past that debating with Elhanan is akin to banging your head against a brick wall, or perhaps more accurately, like endlessly running around in circles. I have never been able to decide if he is serious, or if he is just a troll. Still can't. Either way, I am even going to miss him.
You are not wrong. 
This is all so depressing. I have decided I'm not buying anymore Bioware games moving forward and it's really a bummer. I'm probably not even going to talk about games online anymore.
I don't think Dev's should ever be moderators unless they really like it.
Brojo can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the system works (and in the past more or less worked) like this:
The developers have moderation privileges activated on their accounts, and certain administrative privileges over forums associated directly with their purview (In Brojo's case, as QA for ME 3 MP at the time, that would be the ME 3 Multiplayer forum.)
Their role as moderators is functionally similar to that of the volunteers, but they are not required to act as moderators as part of their duties. For some, doing so would be an inevitable byproduct of their involvement in the forum. For the majority, though, it was their preference not to.
I believe that has been true for the 4 or 5 years that I've been around.
They were huge flaws in your mind not others.
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