6063 réponses à ce sujet

[maia0407]

i think you are mistaken. i don't see anything about it in the shoutbox?

Take a look at the post where I screen capped your shout box. Wow! The lies are rolling in thick!

[Addictress]

I stepped away for a bit and now, coming back here, seeing everyone disperse and Bioware silently getting its way, I suddenly feel a wave of anger.

So much anger.

[Nixou]

Sure about that?

 

I think this place was portrayed so poorly because

 

1. Bioware has a thinner skin than other companies do

2. The media took the worst bits, never let them go, and acted like they were around all the time(Quarian sweat for an example)

3. Bioware threw everyone under the bus and painted us all as being toxic instead of dealing with the actual people causing them problems

 

Thus, we reached the point we're at now.

 

 

Bioware is a company: companies are things, not people, they do not have skin: it's the people who work in these who do.

As I've argued several times, the forums "original sin" was allowing frequent interaction between the devs and players. It doesn't matter how much of a "lilliputian minority" was behind the truly toxic, aggressive, threatening, insulting, willfully ignorant, sealioning, concern trolling, posts: these are the ones who were fated to be remembered. and let's be honest here: Bioware devs are toy makers: they shouldn't be expected to have a career politician's resistance to insults, threats and hecklers

[Addictress]

These are not toys. They are forms of lucrative interactive artistic media. That require considerable business to produce.

[Vigilant111]

Bioware is a company: companies are things, not people, they do not have skin: it's the people who work in these who do.

As I've argued several times, the forums "original sin" was allowing frequent interaction between the devs and players. It doesn't matter how much of a "lilliputian minority" was behind the truly toxic, aggressive, threatening, insulting, willfully ignorant, sealioning, concern trolling, posts: these are the ones who were fated to be remembered. and let's be honest here: Bioware devs are toy makers: they shouldn't be expected to have a career politician's resistance to insults, threats and hecklers

 

I don't know what to think of this: many people in this thread seem to recall fond memories interacting with devs. I would suggest that the key lies in forum moderation

[Kabraxal]

Bioware is a company: companies are things, not people, they do not have skin: it's the people who work in these who do.

As I've argued several times, the forums "original sin" was allowing frequent interaction between the devs and players. It doesn't matter how much of a "lilliputian minority" was behind the truly toxic, aggressive, threatening, insulting, willfully ignorant, sealioning, concern trolling, posts: these are the ones who were fated to be remembered. and let's be honest here: Bioware devs are toy makers: they shouldn't be expected to have a career politician's resistance to insults, threats and hecklers

 

And I think people overestimate other dev's interactions with the fans.  THe few other forums I had been on over the years had very little dev interaction.  Bioware was one of the few that actually had constant interaction with a wider variety of actual employees. 

 

ANd I can't blame them for leaving after some of the attacks they had to personally endure from this forum.  Many normal posters abandoned this place and forums like it a few years ago when the hostility was at its peak.  It was not a fun place to be. 

[The RPGenius]

and let's be honest here: Bioware devs are toy makers: they shouldn't be expected to have a career politician's resistance to insults, threats and hecklers

That's a pretty poor analogy; I think that most game developers would be the first to tell you that they're a heck of a lot more than just toy makers.  Video games as a whole, particularly RPGs, are at least as much examples of storytelling using a new medium of expression as they are simplistic diversions.  Perhaps a toy maker shouldn't be expected to have to deal with criticism and feedback (although I disagree with that), but certainly an artist and a writer should.

[mybudgee]

And I think people overestimate other dev's interactions with the fans.  THe few other forums I had been on over the years had very little dev interaction.  Bioware was one of the few that actually had constant interaction with a wider variety of actual employees. 

 

ANd I can't blame them for leaving after some of the attacks they had to personally endure from this forum.  Many normal posters abandoned this place and forums like it a few years ago when the hostility was at its peak.  It was not a fun place to be. 

Oh NO! Anything but CYBER-Bullying!!

 

 

Gimme a break

 

*Rolls eyes*

[RealKorra]

oh the toxicity was real bud

[Puddi III]

and let's be honest here: Bioware devs are toy makers: they shouldn't be expected to have a career politician's resistance to insults, threats and hecklers

If only they had some sort of "community manager" position within the company whose job was to engage with the community. A person in such a position would likely have nothing to do with the toymaking process but rather be trained to be able to handle criticism respectfully and raise the company's PR image. They could even delegate some of the responsibility to volunteers in good standing within the community to help lighten the burden of everyday moderation.

Alas they are but simple toymakers and have not the means to make such decisions.

[BansheeOwnage]

Did... they just... remove the post about Gringotts? Why?

 

Also, I'm back. I was only mostly dead Too much to catch up on, yet not enough...

[Kabraxal]

Oh NO! Anything but CYBER-Bullying!!

 

 

Gimme a break

 

*Rolls eyes*

 

Yes, because some of the vile crap that was posted was just something to hand wave away as insignificant..... the hoops some of you jump through to try and justify some of the horrid posts that caused the devs to leave is quite amusing.  It's like you can't admit the fans screwed it up and just want to lash out at Bioware. 
 

[AbsintheDragonfly]

Did... they just... remove the post about Gringotts? Why?

 

Also, I'm back. I was only mostly dead Too much to catch up on, yet not enough...

I think they're trying to make me go back to lurking.

[SnakeCode]

Glass? Who gives a **** about glass? Put the other guy back on.

[BansheeOwnage]

Yes, because some of the vile crap that was posted was just something to hand wave away as insignificant..... the hoops some of you jump through to try and justify some of the horrid posts that caused the devs to leave is quite amusing.  It's like you can't admit the fans screwed it up and just want to lash out at Bioware.

I'm somewhere in the middle, I guess. I'm not going to downplay the effect words can have on people. I'm not going to excuse the people who did post vile things. But they really were a minority, and they were called out by the rest. I'm never going to blame the fans for this site closing. Bioware could have done more to keep this place clean, if they had the will.

 

Plus, the timing is suspicious, isn't it? We're in a between-game lull, and a large one at that, what with DA4 not being officially announced, knowing nothing about the new IP, and next to nothing about ME:A. The vitriol here is at a low, so that would be a dumb reason to close the forums. The poster count is also at a low, though, which ensures they'll get as little backlash as possible for closing the place, as well as informing the fewest members of the closure at all, since they didn't send a mass-email.

 

I honestly don't know if it was that calculated; there is evidence that it was spur-of-the-moment (changing the entire forum to HTTPS only a month ago), which points to bad Andromeda news being the reason instead. We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

[Liamv2]

Yes, because some of the vile crap that was posted was just something to hand wave away as insignificant..... the hoops some of you jump through to try and justify some of the horrid posts that caused the devs to leave is quite amusing.  It's like you can't admit the fans screwed it up and just want to lash out at Bioware. 
 

 

Oh noes people being mean on an internet forum. If only there was something like moderators, a report button or a block button that exists for such things. Sadly such wonderful amazing things do not exist on this forum. 

[Kabraxal]

I'm somewhere in the middle, I guess. I'm not going to downplay the effect words can have on people. I'm not going to excuse the people who did post vile things. But they really were a minority, and they were called out by the rest. I'm never going to blame the fans for this site closing. Bioware could have done more to keep this place clean, if they had the will.

 

Plus, the timing is suspicious, isn't it? We're in a between-game lull, and a large one at that, what with DA4 not being officially announced, knowing nothing about the new IP, and next to nothing about ME:A. The vitriol here is at a low, so that would be a dumb reason to close the forums. The poster count is also at a low, though, which ensures they'll get as little backlash as possible for closing the place, as well as informing the fewest members of the closure at all, since they didn't send a mass-email.

 

I honestly don't know if it was that calculated; there is evidence that it was spur-of-the-moment (changing the entire forum to HTTPS only a month ago), which points to bad Andromeda news being the reason instead. We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

 

From what has been said by those that would have been in the know, it just sounds like a long standing back and forth finally just tilted toward the forum's closure.  It has been dying a slow death anyway, like most forums, and I personally do not see it as much of a signal towards any of their properties, considering the only news we get on those are not revealed here but via Twitter or the various cons/expos out there. 

 

And EA has never seemed much for community style forums anyway.  I think it's something they just ended up having to deal with when acquiring Bioware that they may always have been looking for an excuse to shut down. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I find it interesting that folks are focusing on the closing, when the deletion is the problem. For those that are overlooking that little fact, this is the site that helped build the faqs that IGN uses. Those breakdowns about class and rotation? Gone. Many sources from the DA and ME wiki that could only be found on this site? Gone, and it's only due to dedicated posters that posts are being archived. Bug fix conversations? Gone. Confirmations by devs and writers about lore? Gone.

I've read a lot of justifications for closing the forums. As I have mentioned before, I don't like it but I understand it. What I cannot understand, even after a week since I found out, is why they feel the need to delete everything. So much useful information is going to be lost. The stuff that's being to be able to be saved is going to be scattered across multiple sites. When I would google for bug fixes and the like, it would take me right back to this site. Or I'd go to a different site and get linked right back here.

So for those that say, "Good riddance to bad rubbish," you're really missing the big picture. They are trashing everything, and not all of it was really bad. Faqs, walkthroughs, theorycrafting...all going poof. This is going to effect BIoWare badly in the long run. When people are trying to find an easy and safe place for information, they'll get a 404 error. Gods knows how long it's going to take to have new google hits. Sure players can go to various fan sites, but it lacks a certain legimacy that an official forum provides.

If they simply closed the forums, that would be one thing. I knew that this had a chance of happening the second I clicked Accept on the TOS. Posting here wasn't a right after all, so that's part of the deal. However, I cannot understand years of good information, that has nothing much to do with the social aspect, being deleted. I don't understand the point of that at all. While the debate can certainly be made about the harassment some devs/writers have received, the forums simply being closed would help with that. Complete and total erasure is going too far.

[sim2er]

yeah I understand wanting the forums to be put into a read-only state. I just don't understand why they can't remain available in read-only. I'm also concerned that I will lose access to the promotional items, since the DAO Collector's items and ME2 Gamestop Bonus don't appear in my Origin library so I've depended on BSN (and my own backups) for access to these items after re-installs (like with new OSes and new PCs).

[Grieving Natashina]

yeah I understand wanting the forums to be put into a read-only state. I just don't understand why they can't remain available in read-only. I'm also concerned that I will lose access to the promotional items, since the DAO Collector's items and ME2 Gamestop Bonus don't appear in my Origin library so I've depended on BSN (and my own backups) for access to these items after re-installs (like with new OSes and new PCs).

Conal said earlier in the thread that players should still have access to all of those things through BioWare's website. Just the forums themselves are being erased. I cannot say that enough: This is being erased, with bits making it to the Wayback Machine and other such archives.

I've had constant DLC problems with every BW game. Both on Steam and on Origin. I ditched the Steam version quite sometime back.. My issue is that Origin is good about downloading about 50% of my DLC and ignores the rest. I have to go my BSN account to get ahold the remaining DLCs. Good thing the Legacy BSN is going to stay.

I've had to reinstall with a completely clean slate, but still ran into problems. I wouldn't be able to use any of my legally purchased DLCs for ME2 without a pccpatcher that a fan way back in the day made. Same thing with ME3, different mod. Made by...a couple of BSN users.

[Spirit Vanguard]

My pleasure. 

  

Cat videos are Internet Win. ;D

They actually deleted my joke, so it's quite good that you saved the gif.

They did! Darn... Well, as long as you know how much glee it brought me. #neverforget

[TobiTobsen]

  
They did! Darn... Well, as long as you know how much glee it brought me. #neverforget

 

Everybody loves Gary Oldman overacting!

 

Stansfield is the biggest source of akward lulz in the entire movie!

 

[KumoriYami]

This is the last time I rhyme and rant. I swear. At least an extremely long while anyway. Or at least until the next time i think of Puck and his 'over hill, through brush and serving the fairy queen rhyming' speech.

 

As we Enter the Kocari Wilds to look find treaties and blood,

I must say The Betrayal of a decision by Bioware feels like a dud

Making it so that Innocent Blood feels as if dragged through mud

While Mages In Their Chantry cry out, crud.

 

Having The Endless Waves of Hurlocks makes more sense

Though unlike clashes with The Darkspawn Hordes, this had left little to suspense

Them and the Viscount listening can now only be spoke in past tense

For even the Dwarven Nobles have taken note of BW's absence

 

It's caused Templars and Mages to engage in a Street Fight

Simply because Mage Pride has dictated that we cannot ignore our plight

All we hear silence from those with Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts abandoning the forums in fright

Leaving The Champions of the Just stand up as it is our right

 

Every day brings us closer to this Nightmare's End

All while Alexius hides just around the bend

Yet the need to have The Inquisition Calling makes it difficult to comprehend

For The Scar left in EA's wake will be hard to mend

 

In Hushed Whispers we worry if this is a sign of what is to come

Perhaps Doom Upon the World of the future as we drink rum

Leaving The Followers wondering if the company is done

As the Maker contemplates how he ended up in this conundrum

 

Especially since a certain Epilogue left us feeling overcome and done

The need to Rise despite how emotions left us warranting a rerun

But A World Torn Asunder has hurt all but anyone

Leaving no hope that The Dawn Will Come for those of us left standing without fun

 

This Dark Dawn abandons fans to leave them alone

but when examining Kirkwall Nights, maybe our time was always on loan

This detour in The Deep roads removes BW as a candidate to the company that listens to its fans throne

Still there is hope if you choose to jump ship to a BSN clone

 

For there is a Haven for those with a Rogue Heart who do not want to talk as if muted by insulation foam 

It's unfortunate that the seeds of Descent have already been sown

Even while Guardians of the Past say that this entire thing has been overblown

And I Am The One of the many to say, I hope you don't shut down (and delete the contents of) our home

 

that's it. im done lol. Had to one for DA since i did an ME one. though this was longer than i wanted to make it. (also, sorry about saying bsn clone but i couldn't think of anything else that fit!)

[Puddi III]

I find it interesting that folks are focusing on the closing, when the deletion is the problem. For those that are overlooking that little fact, this is the site that helped build the faqs that IGN uses. Those breakdowns about class and rotation? Gone. Many sources from the DA and ME wiki that could only be found on this site? Gone, and it's only due to dedicated posters that posts are being archived. Bug fix conversations? Gone. Confirmations by devs and writers about lore? Gone.

I've read a lot of justifications for closing the forums. As I have mentioned before, I don't like it but I understand it. What I cannot understand, even after a week since I found out, is why they feel the need to delete everything. So much useful information is going to be lost. The stuff that's being to be able to be saved is going to be scattered across multiple sites. When I would google for bug fixes and the like, it would take me right back to this site. Or I'd go to a different site and get linked right back here.

So for those that say, "Good riddance to bad rubbish," you're really missing the big picture. They are trashing everything, and not all of it was really bad. Faqs, walkthroughs, theorycrafting...all going poof. This is going to effect BIoWare badly in the long run. When people are trying to find an easy and safe place for information, they'll get a 404 error. Gods knows how long it's going to take to have new google hits. Sure players can go to various fan sites, but it lacks a certain legimacy that an official forum provides.

If they simply closed the forums, that would be one thing. I knew that this had a chance of happening the second I clicked Accept on the TOS. Posting here wasn't a right after all, so that's part of the deal. However, I cannot understand years of good information, that has nothing much to do with the social aspect, being deleted. I don't understand the point of that at all. While the debate can certainly be made about the harassment some devs/writers have received, the forums simply being closed would help with that. Complete and total erasure is going too far.

tbh the deletion isn't as relevant to me as the shutdown. Having an archive is nice, but honestly for every other game aside from BioWare, and now I suppose for BioWare games too, any information I need to know about gameplay or lore is a google and a gamefaqs thread away.

Losing a place to keep the relationships I've built up over the years is much more distressing, though that's something that happened for many of us a year ago.

[Grieving Natashina]

Wall of text incoming. This is in spoiler tags because it's way longer than I thought it would be:

Spoiler

I know I'm actually angry about this. I'm geniunely angry at the employees at BioWare that not only pushed for deletion, but also at the devs that supported it. We're so awful that we deserve to be deleted.

The lore was mentioned for a google search. However, I saw one of the mods for the DA wiki come in asking for help getting this archieved. They had a hard enough time when Gaider closed his tumblr to get dev confirmation on bits of lore.

I don't think I'm going to be able to take part in a 55+ page discussion filled with three months of PC troubleshooting on gamefaqs. Threads like that here had their OPs constantly maintained with new suggestions being added all the time. There is very few threads like that on gamefaqs. I've looked.

See, I am very angry. However, I don't believe in throwing around threats and nonsense like that. My best friend works for Comcast. He has for almost 20 years. He doesn't work in the customer service department. He works on the BIG routers on the graveyard shift. We're talking the biggies that connect one side of the US to the other. One of the routers he worked with was called Megatron.

However, he believes in "customer first," and hates what the CSR department is like. We hadn't talked in awhile and he got ahold of me last week after putting in a 60 hour week. Sadly, he still gets chucked right under the bus with the rest of the company due to the blind hatred. As a result, I refused to do that the employees at BioWare. Even the ones that made this call and support it, they are just people.

As an aside, I think that EA and Comcast constantly being sited as the worst companies out there is hilarious. My husband and I got caught up and screwed over by the bank crash. So did a lot of adults I know. But yeah, a game publisher is truly the worst. <eyeroll>

Anyway... I wouldn't waste my time or energy on proving the BW heads correct. I'm not perfect, but I've always strived to be civil and being a psycho raging gamer about the matter isn't going to help. No matter how angry I am, it will never justify being insulting or harassing writers and devs for any reason. I will spread the word that BioWare is deleting it's forums.

I will happily tell other gamers I know on Facebook about this deletion and encourage them to either buy the games used or as a GOTY bundle. For laughs, I'll tell them that Instagram was sited as a good substitute as well as twitter to replace a forum for conversation. I use FB very sparingly, but I would never do it to talk much about a BioWare game. I have some pretty conservative in-laws and I'm not exactly comfy with using my real name to express my views on say, LGBT+ content in BioWare games.

I'm going to make it a point to tell my family and friends too. Most of my friends play games and a few are gamers (yes, there is a difference imho.) My brother and I both grew up on games. HIs sister-in-law is an RPG fan, although she prefers the Elder Scrolls series. The best man from my wedding loved older BioWare games and last summer I was trying to coax him into the DA series. I'm about due for a PC upgrade and I was thinking him about giving him my old setup. Now I'll tell him that it's best to just stay away.

I'm not stating I'm asking people to boycott the company, just don't buy their games new. This whole thing has made me go from considering the Collector's Edition to waiting for a bundle once all the DLCs and tons of patches are out. I was excited about ME:A and sharing the hype here. I had a lot of fun prior to DA:I's release doing that, and I was looking forward to doing that again with another fanbase. Instead, I'm so "meh" for now about ME:A that they can wake me up when they have something more to say about it rather than a couple of nice trailers.

As always, this isn't about the closure. It's about the deletion. I'm very sure that the devs that have come by, like poor Conal and Allan, aren't allowed to talk about that part. I think unless some of the devs get confronted at a con, during a live stream Q&A, they won't say anything about the deletion. The closure sure, but never the deletion. There probably isn't enough of a good PR excuse for that.

A rare TL;DR, since this is huge: I'm angry and I won't waste my time and insulting or threatening BW employees. I will spread the word that this company has so little faith in their product that they must delete the forums. I'm also curious to see if they'll ever talk about the deletion.