6646 réponses à ce sujet

[RSX Titan]

How to Capitalize on Advocate Marketing.

 

From Loyalty marketing impact: In his book, Loyalty Rules!, Fred Reichheld details the value to customer referral on the growth and financial performance of dozens of leading US firms. Reichheld purports that the measurement of company advocates, or promoters, is the strongest single measurable correlation between customers and corporate performance. Similarly, Chris X. Moloney has presented new findings (Loyalty World London 2006) that showed a magnetic value to a company to promote and measure customer referrals and advocacy via research and marketing.

 

It appears that a company wants more advocates and loyal customers and not less. Instead of destroying this forum community aggressively, BW could have tried to increase their number.

 

Closing the forums does not help them in any way.

I missed the part where I said they didn't want loyal customers. The point is churn vs net new customers and the impact of a vocal minority thinking they matter more than they really do to earnings/per share which is all they really care about. Lets be honest though, what percentage of posters on this board are going to sever ties with Bioware as a result of this decision? I'd venture to guess hardly any at all. On a side note there is some interesting new data out there that shows businesses overwhelmingly focus on acquisition over retention despite it being cost prohibitive which ties into the link you provided. We'll see if this new data alters how Wall Street views a company's portfolio. My money is on not any time soon.

[RSX Titan]

Net growth means that you've gained more new revenue from new sources than you've lost.
 

I'll reply to this by quoting myself:


Every single sale lost is a sale lost. Also, a full-price launch sale is worth a lot more than a sale after the price has dropped.
 

I've no illusions that my (or that of the other regular posters here) business is particularly meaningful to EA. That doesn't change the fact that your most ardent fans tend to be your greatest advocates and the people most likely to willingly pay full price for all of your products and tie-ins. Marketing campaigns are expensive; word-of-mouth from satisfied customers is free.

 

I think we are talking past each other at this point. I'm not saying the existing customer base doesn't matter. I'm saying the small subset of fans who frequent this forum don't matter when you take a step back and look at it on a global scale. Obviously if they start losing 20-30% of repeat customers and don't replace them with net new customers they will have a huge issue on their hands come the Earnings call. I also agree that closing these forums is extremely short sighted and is basically a big **(# ^@$ to loyal fans that have been here for years. 

 

This is a really good discussion though. Thanks for entertaining me   

[Vigilant111]

How to Capitalize on Advocate Marketing.

 

From Loyalty marketing impact: In his book, Loyalty Rules!, Fred Reichheld details the value to customer referral on the growth and financial performance of dozens of leading US firms. Reichheld purports that the measurement of company advocates, or promoters, is the strongest single measurable correlation between customers and corporate performance. Similarly, Chris X. Moloney has presented new findings (Loyalty World London 2006) that showed a magnetic value to a company to promote and measure customer referrals and advocacy via research and marketing.

 

It appears that a company wants more advocates and loyal customers and not less. Instead of destroying this forum community aggressively, BW could have tried to increase their number.

 

Closing the forums does not help them in any way.

 

Instead of closing this forum, they should open more forums I am just kidding! I don't think it would be financially efficient anyway

 

All joking aside, BW should go back to the basics, and that is making good games and listening to fans, be humble and be professional

[Pasquale1234]

It's different from the Warden or even Hawke in my opinion. The Warden was always a lot trickier because they could be dead, so I can live with them not returning, much as I liked them.

You're presenting the writer's POV here, which I totally get.

From my POV as a player, however, my canon Warden is alive and well. So, from my perspective, the situation with the Inquisitor and Solas at the end of Trespasser doesn't feel any different to me than having to play more warden / darkspawn stories without my Warden. I was massively disappointed to learn that I'd never get to play my Warden again.
 

There is a huge difference between accidentally setting a monster free and not even knowing you did and getting to know someone in your party for an entire game (either as a friend, rival, or lover), them betraying you and threatening to as-good-as destroy the world, and then you vowing to stop them and having a cliffhanger ending where you're actively plotting against them, no matter what choices you make.

Point... conceded.

That war-tabling happily ever after ending was an odd one.
 

That personal connection is something rare that I'd hate Bioware to throw away. It makes the story mean more when the protagonist is personally invested, something I felt was lacking in DA:I until Trespasser (Solas, the Mark, the Inquisition's future), and it we'd finally get an interesting villain that you can actually relate to or understand to some degree. The relationship between the Inquisitor and Solas is too important to throw away in favour of having some new nobody defeat him instead with none of that going for them, with Bioware thinking it's all okay because the player knows these things. I don't want to meta-game, Bioware.

I think a lot of that depends on the player and how they played their Inquisitor. In my first playthrough, my Inquisitor didn't have much of a relationship with Solas - he was just sort of along for the ride as far as she was concerned. She didn't talk to him much, and rarely used him.

Plus - having been through all of this before, I pretty much knew (or at least expected) that we'll never play the Inquisitor again.

Different perspectives, I guess.

OT: The forum closing makes me sad.

[AlanC9]

Considering my level of attachment to the warden, I'd never buy into a fiction where the inquisitor kills the warden. I also don't ever plan on killing most Hawke in the fade other than the traitor one.

OK, but if you're going to be squeamish about this stuff, you could just headcanon that your Warden isn't a would-be murderer. It's OK to play evil PCs, but it sounds like this is just making trouble for you. A Warden who wants to murder people for not betraying their allies -- or because she's a racist or a religious fanatic; it wasn't really clear above how you're rolling -- is going to have to murder a lot of people. That sort of behavior catches up with you eventually.

But hey, if murder works for you, go for it.

[Eryri]

In a perfect world companies don't have to deal with churn but thats not reality. The best way to do so is to drive growth and new customers. Ask yourself why DirecTV gives away NFL Sunday ticket if you sign 1 year contract. Why do Verizon and AT&T give away new iphones and Galaxies to new customers? I work for a cloud service provider and the deals for new customers are always way more enticing then the ones offered to renewal or retention prospects. lastly I used 100 and 1000 to illustrate a point in an overly simplified example. The real numbers are way higher and the truth is Bioware could lose the future business of everyone who posts regularly on this forum and it wouldn't impact sales at all. I know its hard to admit your hard earned dollar (I'm referring to us as individuals, not you directly) is inconsequential to a megacorporation like EA but as long as the revenue stream keeps flowing, thats the cold hard truth. It would take tens-of-thousands of loyal customers to bolt before it impacts them.

While it is true that banks and utility companies are notorious for neglecting their long term customers, I don't think the situation is entirely comparable.
Utility companies and telecom providers supply an ongoing service, one that is difficult to live without. They can rely on their customers' laziness to keep the money flowing because finding a better deal is a hassle.
Bioware, by contrast, supplies luxury goods. No one needs a Bioware game, at least not in the way they need things like car insurance. They are also one-off purchases rather than a subscription service (despite some efforts to make them so). There is no "inertia" to keep casual players buying Bioware games. One has to actively choose to purchase them. And there are plenty of other companies making products that look equally attractive on the shelf at GameStop, unless their hardcore, Bioware-fan friends happen to point them in the right direction. Something that I suspect has not been made more likely by this ill-advised forum closure.

Modifié par Eryri, 12 août 2016 - 09:02 .

[vbibbi]

I feel bad now for doing a Treebeard impression and telling people not to be hasty, when they warned that the closure of Off Topic was likely just the first step in shuttering the entire forum. Turns out they were right.

 

And just think, if more of the doomsaying turns out to be correct about things, we'll only be able to stamp our little feet on the refugee boards

 

I think there's a danger in pandering to those who scream the loudest. They aren't necessarily representative. But this is something I feel that Bioware have well in hand. What they don't understand, is how much golden and unique information there is in the feedback from people who are genuinely angry, no matter how raging or offensively that feedback is presented.

 

As for the "hardcore fans" and "casuals": If we're speaking about people who are buying games, spending money, and playing typical games, - There are no "casuals". That's an illusion. Those people are similar to the "hardcore fans". They think the same, feel the same, have similar opinions. They're just more silent.

 

"Casuals" is the imaginary market segment that EA marketing forced Will Wright to make the gameplay for, in Spore. They don't exist in videogaming and never will. Possibly, you could call those on mobile phones casual.

 

There is however a huge untapped market of people that would find some variety of videogames fun and entertaining to play. But they aren't anything at all like what is often perceived as "casual" players. They are the type of people that sometimes get drawn into computer gaming through contemplative and fairly sophisticated things like non-action RPGs and simulations like old SimCity (not new).

 

I'm going to leave the question, if Bioware will lose customers or not by closing down the forums, by the side. I'm not sure that's the case. What I'm saying here is that if you lose 100 hardcore fans, you also lose 1000 other, silent customers. Any other perception is pure delusion.

 

To me, a casual gamer is the person who will buy a game and play it for a while. They might be interested enough to finish it, they might not, depending on the quality of the game and if something newer comes along. They are the reason why game completion rates can be low. A fan will play a game to completion, even if it turns out they might not like the game as much as they hoped. They will play more than once and try to get as much from the experience as possible. They will buy all DLC, perhaps some other related materials like books or comics, clothing, collector's edition, etc. They will buy the PlayStation version and the PC version of the game. While their money is equal to a casual gamer, they can potentially be a larger source of revenue from multiple related products.

 

So yes, I do believe there is a casual segment of the video game market that companies are trying to cater to.

 

I missed the part where I said they didn't want loyal customers. The point is churn vs net new customers and the impact of a vocal minority thinking they matter more than they really do to earnings/per share which is all they really care about. Lets be honest though, what percentage of posters on this board are going to sever ties with Bioware as a result of this decision? I'd venture to guess hardly any at all. On a side note there is some interesting new data out there that shows businesses overwhelmingly focus on acquisition over retention despite it being cost prohibitive which ties into the link you provided. We'll see if this new data alters how Wall Street views a company's portfolio. My money is on not any time soon.

 

I'm not going to cut ties with Bioware, but at this point I'm certainly going to either buy used copies of their games or wait for GotY editions. I don't know how true that is for others on these boards, but I would suspect at least some are going to do the same. And it's ironic since preorder sales are important for reporting performance and how well the game does at launch. I think even if fans here won't wait for a used copy, they will be much less likely to preorder.

[Vigilant111]

I missed the part where I said they didn't want loyal customers. The point is churn vs net new customers and the impact of a vocal minority thinking they matter more than they really do to earnings/per share which is all they really care about. Lets be honest though, what percentage of posters on this board are going to sever ties with Bioware as a result of this decision? I'd venture to guess hardly any at all. On a side note there is some interesting new data out there that shows businesses overwhelmingly focus on acquisition over retention despite it being cost prohibitive which ties into the link you provided. We'll see if this new data alters how Wall Street views a company's portfolio. My money is on not any time soon.

 

What you said maybe true but gaming business is risky, not your average fast-food kind no matter how bad they are there will still be business cos everyone needs to eat. Word of mouth and media image is very important besides product quality, extra business is life-line in this industry. Of course, you could argue that BW has got dough now and is no longer struggling, maybe, who knows

[AngryFrozenWater]

I missed the part where I said they didn't want loyal customers. The point is churn vs net new customers and the impact of a vocal minority thinking they matter more than they really do to earnings/per share which is all they really care about. Lets be honest though, what percentage of posters on this board are going to sever ties with Bioware as a result of this decision? I'd venture to guess hardly any at all. On a side note there is some interesting new data out there that shows businesses overwhelmingly focus on acquisition over retention despite it being cost prohibitive which ties into the link you provided. We'll see if this new data alters how Wall Street views a company's portfolio. My money is on not any time soon.

Can you please drop the act? Things like "let's be honest" implies that you mean I lie. That doesn't work on me. OK?

 

Vocal minority? That's exactly the point. Here's why:

 

The advocates are a minority as well. Yet, they do impact sales growth. If you delve deeper into advocacy marketing then you would know that the reverse is also true. If advocates turn against the company then there will be a negative impact on sales growth and one that is hard to reverse.

[Pasquale1234]

I think we are talking past each other at this point. I'm not saying the existing customer base doesn't matter.

Please forgive me for taking your statements literally, but I think you have said that:
 

The real numbers are way higher and the truth is Bioware could lose the future business of everyone who posts regularly on this forum and it wouldn't impact sales at all. <snip> It would take tens-of-thousands of loyal customers to bolt before it impacts them.

I'm saying the small subset of fans who frequent this forum don't matter when you take a step back and look at it on a global scale. Obviously if they start losing 20-30% of repeat customers and don't replace them with net new customers they will have a huge issue on their hands come the Earnings call. I also agree that closing these forums is extremely short sighted and is basically a big **(# ^@$ to loyal fans that have been here for years.

On a global scale, it may represent a small % overall, but a small % of a vast amount of money is still a lot of money.

I think they fully expect they'll lose some sales over this forum closure, but that it'll improve their bottom line for a couple of reasons: 1) They'll dump the costs of operating the forum, and 2) They won't lose any sales from potential customers who decide not to buy after visiting the forum. Of course, 2) is also offset by the sales they would gain from people visiting the forum.

Also, let's not forget that most forums have more lurkers than posters. Active posters are a small % of those who benefit from the existence of the forum.
 

This is a really good discussion though. Thanks for entertaining me

Back at'cha.

[Vigilant111]

Can you please drop the act? Things like "let's be honest" implies that you mean I lie. That doesn't work on me. OK?

 

Vocal minority? That's exactly the point. Here's why:

 

The advocates are a minority as well. Yet, they do impact sales growth. If you delve deeper into advocacy marketing then you would know that the reverse is also true. If advocates turn against the company then there will be a negative impact on sales growth and one that is hard to reverse.

 

Keyword here: Vocal

 

The bottom line is: pleased vocal fans bring sales

[Spirit Vanguard]

I've never been so glad to be a mage player as right now. LOL
 
(Honestly, I only played non-mage in DA:2 because I wanted to have a romance with Fenris when he's not always pissed off at me. The hate romance was just messed up with him as a mage.)

  

It's a lot of work to romance Fenris as a mage on the friendship path while being pro mage but I think it's well worth the effort.  It's possible to max out his friendship by the end of his Act II quest.

It's not too difficult if you know how to talk to him and keep him far away from your pro-Mage-freedom business. For instance he tends to favor Hawke's joke speech options and during his quest in act 2 he prefers a lot of the diplomatic speech options.

I'm just gonna leave this here, while I can still be helpful on BSN, if you want to give it a look or use it for help:

http://dragonage.wik...Fenris/Approval

[bEVEsthda]

To me, a casual gamer is the person who will buy a game and play it for a while. They might be interested enough to finish it, they might not, depending on the quality of the game and if something newer comes along. They are the reason why game completion rates can be low. A fan will play a game to completion, even if it turns out they might not like the game as much as they hoped. They will play more than once and try to get as much from the experience as possible. They will buy all DLC, perhaps some other related materials like books or comics, clothing, collector's edition, etc. They will buy the PlayStation version and the PC version of the game. While their money is equal to a casual gamer, they can potentially be a larger source of revenue from multiple related products.

 

So yes, I do believe there is a casual segment of the video game market that companies are trying to cater to.

 

For sure what you describe is the market both developers and publishers aim for. But I wouldn't call them "casual". It doesn't really matter since we both know what we mean.

 

But what you describe as non-casual are what I'd call fans of a particular game, or few games. Most people I'd call hard-core gamers are only fans of a few select games. Not all. They buy and play a lot of games, but they don't finish all of them, perhaps even few. But that is not because they don't like them. It's because they haven't yet,  ...but they still plan to, ...one day. It's just that they are busy playing something else right now.  - That, is the reason for completion rates staying at around or below 50% even for the most popular games.

 

So I don't agree, there's no reason to call them "casual", because they aren't. It's just that a particular game is not one of their top 3-5 games of all time.

[mrs_anomaly]

Losing a whole group of your most loyal customers is not a generally recommended practice in the business world. 

 

If you're trying to say Bioware/EA won't feel any impact from people losing faith in the company I think you are wrong (general you). 

 

Maybe naysayers will think the scale of dissatisfaction won't mar the sales of upcoming games and projects but I beg to differ. 

 

Also, restating here, the decision to close this forum is very short sighted. 

 

[AngryFrozenWater]

I wonder what happened to the volunteer moderators, now that the site is being closed. Did BW thank them? Maybe gave them a present for all these years of investing in their forums? Did they get the news at the same time as we did? Just curious.

[LPPrince]

I wonder what happened to the volunteer moderators, now that the site is being closed. Did BW thank them? Maybe gave them a present for all these years of investing in their forums? Did they get the news at the same time as we did? Just curious.

 

 

They all had their privileges removed simultaneously far as I know.

 

Basically they're like the rest of us, fans losing forums we committed to for years. Shame.

[Illyria]

  It's not too difficult if you know how to talk to him and keep him far away from your pro-Mage-freedom business. For instance he tends to favor Hawke's joke speech options and during his quest in act 2 he prefers a lot of the diplomatic speech options.

I'm just gonna leave this here, while I can still be helpful on BSN, if you want to give it a look or use it for help:

http://dragonage.wik...Fenris/Approval

 

I'm going to confess: for a while I had a printout of that.  It was easier than switching between the page and the game.

[LPPrince]

I'm seriously having trouble figuring out where fans are gonna get the information they need now. The forum was THE source for it. No other place has those answers nor will answers be that easy to find.

[Spirit Vanguard]

I'm going to confess: for a while I had a printout of that.  It was easier than switching between the page and the game.

I play on console, so I just look at on my phone.

[cJohnOne]

I wasn't going to post here because it might ruin it, ha ha.

 

I pre-order because I like seeing the hype on this board.  I still might pre-order DA4 but there isn't as much energy there.

 

 

I'll miss you guys when the board closes. 

[Cassandra Saturn]

I wonder what happened to the volunteer moderators, now that the site is being closed. Did BW thank them? Maybe gave them a present for all these years of investing in their forums? Did they get the news at the same time as we did? Just curious.

Selene Moonsong signed up on my old forum but i did redirected her to uBSN.

[Cassandra Saturn]

I wasn't going to post here because it might ruin it, ha ha.
 
I pre-order because I like seeing the hype on this board.  I still might pre-order DA4 but there isn't as much energy there.
 
 
I'll miss you guys when the board closes.

i'm not going to get any Bioware games from now on. or product associated with EA or Bioware brand. it's completely blank to me. i'm not setting any expectations since the forum was announced to be closed.

i heard DA4 is gonna get much more worse.. it's gonna turn into DA2 debacle style again, same for MEA with ME2/ME3 style debacle.

[crazyrabbits]

i'm not going to get any Bioware games from now on. or product associated with EA or Bioware brand. it's completely blank to me. i'm not setting any expectations since the forum was announced to be closed.

 

Buy second-hand, buy on a PC gaming sale for cheap, or just pirate it. Don't buy Bioware games at full price on day one.

[DEUGH Man]

As soon as off topic died, this site did anyways, tbh. Here's to remembering when this company didn't try to alienate its fans at every turn.

[DEUGH Man]

I'm seriously having trouble figuring out where fans are gonna get the information they need now. The forum was THE source for it. No other place has those answers nor will answers be that easy to find.

 

It's like losing the RWBY thread all over again, lol.