8891 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Um...the forums are closing. That's the biggest, easiest ignore function possible. 
 
This has become standard PR for Bioware, unfortunately. Spinning less-than-stellar news as purely positive and patronizing customers by not being honest about reasons for decisions. Few of the recent (in the past few years) official statements from Bio have seemed honest or genuine. They have all been corporate PR speak and easily seen through. At least don't insult our intelligence when these "good news!" announcements are obviously only to benefit Bio and not the customers. The decisions will still be rough, but at least they would be honest.

And again, while I am sad they are Ignoring me and everyone else, I do understand why. And our intelligence? Have you read this thread?!

[Elhanan]

Doesn't matter what we feel we "deserve" - it's an unprecedented move, period. Name another developer, major or minor, that doesn't maintain a forum dedicated to its games. I can't think of one. Regardless of what Bioware says, it's undeniable that none of the proposed alternatives lend themselves to any sort of substantive discussion, either among the fans or with the developers. Twitter? Youtube comments? Reddit?
 
You're very concerned with "toxicity" (which is amusing seeing as there are several passive aggressive digs and insults on the first page of your posting history alone) - so you should realize that the rancor on display in any of these places makes the BSN look like afternoon tea. Whatever they think they're doing, it's not going to benefit the fans.

As I recall, Bioware had to host the forums for CDPR for a while, and am not sure when they actually made their own.

[Panda]

Forums have served as place to collect information on one site. Without it all information is fragmanted on various social medias and blogs Bioware has. Since social media is more based on real time than forums are you are bound to miss stuff too. I don't simply think Bioware has provided any kind of alternative to forum, but luckily fans have.

[cJohnOne]

No I don't think people will use a bioware hashtag #   but there are hashtags for everything.  On twitter you just follow something.  It's not too hard but I don't see much from bioware.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Okay, I wasn't going to come back here and post anything else, but I read this and it just annoyed the crap out of me. 

 

Tommy's a cool guy.  To say that Tommy has a clique is utterly ridiculous.  I have seen this guy argue with a lot of people here, with great civility as long as he is treated with civility.  I have also seen him turn right around and agree with those same people that he argued with a few posts ago about something, I am one of those people.  He says what he thinks and defends those opinions no matter who agrees or disagrees with them, and does so with a greater intelligence than I have seen from most people here, with considerable skills in debate.  I have seen him on both sides of an argument with Elhanan, and that ain't easy to do, for me at least.  And again, he treats people with respect as long as he is treated the same. 

 

To say he has a clique, is ludicrous, as is calling him toxic.  But I suppose that since I said good things about him I must be a part of said clique.  *rolls eyes*

 

 

Thanks, man.

 

I've been hanging out with Wolven - and dozens of other eminently smart, funny, erudite, and opinionated posters – in a particular thread here for more than a year. Now, the thread in question is a Witcher thread, so it should be emphatically clear that not everyone agrees on everything all the time. The nitty gritty details are off-topic, but I have to say that, over the course of hundreds of posts, I’ve had a really great time, and I participated in this thread most days, full stop. Through my conversations with these folks, I have revised many of my opinions, reversed some of my opinions, and reinforced others. I’ve found some terrific stuff on their recommendation that I wouldn’t have sought out on my own. I’ve had a lot of good discussion, a lot of good arguments, shared a lot of good jokes, come up with some great ideas, made some friends. It’s been a genuinely terrific experience – and it’s mirrored by my experiences on the BSN as a whole, since I first joined in January, 2010.

 

There are some bad apples on this forum. Welcome to the internet. For every noisy idiot, bigoted loudmouth, or "toxic" condescending creeper, there are ten passionate and invested fans who are here to engage other passionate and invested fans, respectfully, intelligently, and (most importantly... hopefully) with a sense of humor. Again, that was my experience in that thread – but like any thread that persists for years and hundreds of pages of on-topic discussion and off-topic digression, it ends up being a microcosm of the BSN itself. And it’s a damn shame for it to fizzle out like this.

[Angry_Elcor]

Everyone's just jelly because I have the most exclusive clique of all. We're so exclusive that I even threw myself out. I wasn't cool enough.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Speaking generally – and I’m sure I’m only the 50^th person in thread to say exactly this - many of us here have been on the BSN for a long time. Most of us have strong affection for (and strong opinions on) Bioware’s games. We care enough to post about them, which is a lot more than most players. Criticize them, praise them, deconstruct them, offer feedback (a crucial component of which is letting them know when they do something really stupid – like right now. They’re doing something really stupid right now.), all of it is an expression of our investment as fans. Doesn’t matter how it’s “intended” – this move is a betrayal of our trust, affection, and investment. And the fact that a couple of popular alternatives have sprung up already is a testament to that affection for and investment in this community. But for all their many virtues, they’re not the same as an official forum. There’s no hope of any real dev presence, just as there’s little hope of any actual quality engagement with the devs on Facebook or Twitter (or reddit, or Youtube).

One could counter that there’s no dev presence here on the BSN – but it hasn't always been that way, and it’s not too late to fix that. Bioware made this bed because they, for all intents and purposes, left us to the wolves talk amongst ourselves. They abandoned us. But care, attention, and pragmatic and proactive moderation practices could save the BSN. Take a page from quite literally any other triple A developer who maintains a discussion forum. Most of them make this place look like CareBear Land.

[Khayness]

Criticize them, praise them, deconstruct them, offer feedback (a crucial component of which is letting them know when they do something really stupid – like right now. They’re doing something really stupid right now.), all of it is an expression of our investment as fans. Doesn’t matter how it’s “intended” – this move is a betrayal of our trust, affection, and investment.

 

When the ME3 rage was at its peak, they clearly told us they don't owe us anything and we were entitled.

 

Good times.

[Isaidlunch]

I'll miss all the interesting story discussion threads. Sure, some of them got a little out of control (I still have nightmares of remydat and silverexile), but I really loved seeing people so passionate about the game, arguing back and forth on why their decision was right or giving a second perspective on an event in the game. It made me passionate about the games as well and gave me a new appreciation for them that I wouldn't have had with just my own experience. I've tried looking around at other places for this type of discussion but none of them seem appealing. 4chan of all places is looking like the best option right now - at least they actually discuss stuff once in a while instead of certain other sites that are full of nothing but awful gifs/fanfiction or Bioware praise. Fantastic communities? lol ok

 

Thanks for all the fun BSN and I look forward to the craziness in the coming days

[ModernAcademic]

3 days to Armageddon.

 

Well, I guess it's time to start creating my profiles in the new fanforums.

 

Bioware, it was good while it lasted. I hope EA knows what it's doing with Andromeda. Either way, I'll wait some time - a long time, in fact -  before buying the game. Something tells me EA won't know how to make a Mass Effect game the way Casey Hudson and the former team of writers did.

 

So I'll wait to see what Bioware has strived so hard to erase from existence with the closure of this forum: the criticism. Since the players' opinion is the only one worth listening to in an industry dependent on a billionaire media whose sole purpose is to lie straight to our faces about the quality of its products, so that sales are guaranteed and companies can turn a profit.

 

Thanks for the brave people who created the new forums. After the BSN, it's the last place people like me will be able to go to after Bioware/EA's effort to shut people up for good.

[Furisco]

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Worth it.

[Lady Artifice]

Everyone's just jelly because I have the most exclusive clique of all. We're so exclusive that I even threw myself out. I wasn't cool enough.

 

 

Have you chosen a lifeboat yet?

[SmilesJA]

I have read the word "toxic" enough times to last my entire life now.

 

Everything is toxic now.....

[Spirit Vanguard]

Oh gee, thanks for saying my posts in other threads are silly

Just kidding! In all honesty I do agree with you, I can't say for others but my posts ARE silly because I was trying to too hard to treat Mass Effect as real science, sooner or later I will realize I was debating using the opposite end of my mouth

I meant my own posts. At this point I'm only really active in this thread and trying to be helpful with sharing Fexelea's importing stuff. I was making some nonsense posts elsewhere although I'm not even bothering with that anymore.

It still kind of amazes me how new topics are being created and discussed when we have so little time left...

Oh, and, I learned about the forum closure through the MEA Twitter thread --- which I used because I don't do twitter.

[Filament]

To return to an earlier topic. When I was little my mother told me that, in a discussion, the first person to resort to insults was the loser. She stressed that there didn't have to be a winner, normal civil discourse is not a debate, but that the first person to be rude or uncivil was always the loser. Later, she added the corollary that whatever term the rude person used as an insult typically exemplifies them the most of all. She said that not to give me a weapon to fight with, but rather a tool to help with empathy. To understand that when we are angry or frightened, we reach for the thing we fear the most.
 
My mother was a very wise woman and I have tried to take her words to heart. So I feel very sorry for the insulters here and elsewhere. When your mothers told you how to behave in public, you did not pay attention. Both you and the world around you are worse for it.

Internet heresy. Every discussion is a debate and there must be a winner. Your mom is wrong.

But I don't actually think that insults are always unjustified or that there is some universal rule of insult hypocrisy. I too believe in moderation, including moderation in the use of insults and being moderately hypocritical. But we mustn't discuss such things.

[Lady Artifice]

I have read the word "toxic" enough times to last my entire life now.

 

 

We haven't ever directly conversed, as I recall, but I've always enjoyed your posts. I used to follow a lot of the debates about Fenris you participated in, and of course the Fenris thread itself. If I don't see you in one of the lifeboats, I don't want to regret not letting you know. 

[ModernAcademic]

Hey I got an apostitute to like my post! 

 

Now I feel like my life is complete. 

 

 

 

Btw, I was disappointed we didn't see any apostitutes in Inquisition.

 

Imagine going to the Circle Tower to have a chat with the Knight Commander about, Idk, having seen your neighbour turn into an abomination in the middle of the night while your husband was fast asleep on the other room and then, suddenly, they laugh and start talking about a variety of "services" the mages provide and their respective prices.

 

There's a Fraternity which deals with selling stuff with the purpose of being financially independent from the Chantry, isn't there? I forgot their name. Maybe they secretly owned brothels or something? 

[Iakus]

I have read the word "toxic" enough times to last my entire life now.

"Toxic"="I don't agree with you but I don't have a good argument for why you're wrong"

[Lady Artifice]

No, toxic can still mean something outside of being a buzzword, it's just being overused here so much that's it's starting to trigger people to the point that they won't engage it as anything else. 

 

Same thing with a lot of the words that are overused on Tumblr. 

[BansheeOwnage]

One chooses how to act. I would hope that adults would opt for something a bit more reasoned than screaming obscenities, calling names, and the other actions of a pre-teen youngster.

Well, good thing the vast majority of posters I've seen respond in this 272-page thread have been reasonable and weren't screaming obscenities or calling people names then

 

SWTOR is out of Austin, TX; not Canada.

And? Any reasoning for their forums remaining open can be used for these. It's hypocritical.

 

Naturally, you're on mine

Obviously not

 

This is Commander Shepard, signing off

Well that settles it, obviously Commander Shepard needs to have the final post.

 

But that was the fun of it. I remember that you made some fantastic screen shots of the platform where the Intelligence preaches its religion. At the time that was important to the discussions. Was that platform part of the Citadel or part of the Crucible? Those were great times.

 

The platform is on the Citadel, obviously Look, you can see the tip of the Crucible on the top of your image. Unfortunately I can't find a proper shot of the Crucible to show that, but I remember doing it a few years ago

 

Same here. I wouldn't have known until a friend messaged me.

I was lucky enough to spot a thread AlleluiaElizabeth made on the morning of the announcement about it. I'm not sure how long it would have taken for me to find out if I didn't. I didn't actually find this one until it had 150+ pages, since they buried it as far down the forum as they could

 

When my children purchased Dragon Age Origins for me, it was the beginning to a whole new passion. I don't mean the game, though I do have it on PS3 and PC (love them mods). I began lurking the forums. Then I discovered fanfic and read many stories. I decided to try my hand at it. I began my first fanfic towards the end of 2011 and have been writing since. My current one deviates from vanilla more than my first, and the next one planned will have a lot of new material (a greater test to my own skills, such as they are) since it will take place in 970 Dragon. I have all 3 games, I have played through multiple times, but I think I can safely say that my passion for the games is second to my passion for writing. I've always had stories or characters in my head, Dragon Age and these forums gave me the spark to put pen to paper (well, fingers to keyboard). For that I am grateful to Bioware for providing the forums and extremely sad and disappointed in their decision to close them.

I don't write (I'm terrible at it, so good job), but I've also created much more because of these forums than I would have without them. Just long posts, altered images, or short videos making a point, but still something.

 

I'm pretty much convinced by now that MEA will be the last game from BioWare as we know it today before the company is dissolved and redistributed amongst EA divisions, the remaining employees set to work on mobile/facebook style games, online, microtransaction filled games, etc...A forum is useless for a company that no longer exists and facebook and twitter are perfect to talk about mobile/etc...games since there's not much to them.

Well, I'll never put it past EA or Bioware to do something stupid, but it would be colossally stupid not to have a forum for the ME:A release if they actually want people to:

 

1. Word-of-mouth it to others so they buy

2. Actually stay long enough to buy microtransactions in MP

3. Actually stay long enough to buy DLC

4. Not lower their reputation (???)

 

Because without a good place to find bug-fixes, mods, walkthroughs, and just plain general discussion a lot of people will leave a lot sooner than they would have otherwise.

 

No Doctors.

 

Not an Edmonton studio project, it's a Montreal one.

 

Mostly made by folks who worked on ME3MP/Omega. Mac Walters is still on board so yay I guess.

 

I hate to tell you, but it already is a game made by the BioWare we barely know.

Wa-wa-wait, Mac Walters is still there? Somehow I thought he wasn't for some reason. Well that's not good. Oh well, it's not like I could really get less excited for Andromeda.

 

Why is she fighting Cerberus in her bra and knickers?  Poor pet will get the sniffles.

And she's on Mars, so she'll quickly either freeze to death or suffocate outside

[Angry_Elcor]

I have to do this manually. I have no idea how it will work.

 

 

Have you chosen a life boat yet?

 

Like any proper lady, I will keep my courters guessing whilst maintaining an air of mystique. This is the part where I would normally link a picture of Mystique from the X-Men or something, but with my inability to copy/paste, all I can do is wish and rage.

[Angry_Elcor]

It's probably for the best that mostly failed. I was unable to edit the text I had added to the italicized quote header, which read "Lasy Artifice said:" Now, I'm no expert on such things, but I think there are a number of unintended ways that could have read, so maybe the botched quote was a better fate.

[AngryFrozenWater]

...

The platform is on the Citadel, obviously Look, you can see the tip of the Crucible on the top of your image. Unfortunately I can't find a proper shot of the Crucible to show that, but I remember doing it a few years ago

...

I know! I think that too. That's what all those images show. Think of the implications. Ghehe.

 

I'm going to miss those discussions. No "new spaces" can provide that.

[BansheeOwnage]

@N7M, IMO you are wrong. Closing the forums is closing the strongest vocal chord fans have.

• criticism is not inherently bad. If properly phrased and explained criticism can be constructive.
• Constructive criticism cannot be properly provided in 140 characters or less.
• if posts can be drowned in a sea of posts, lost over time, reorganized based on likes or dislikes, or otherwise hidden then I believe closing the forums may not completely silence fans but certainly constrains them to the point they are barely heard.
• I do not like everything in the games I played. I never resorted to a simple "this sucks!" When I didn't like something I tried to explain why in a thoughtful, courteous manner. I believe if you are going to say you don't like something you should be respectful enough of the other's efforts to provide your reasons w/o insults. That's just how I at least try to roll. If I wasn't always successful, that's my bad but not my intent.
• My posts, until the forums are gone, will always be found in the same place. That can't be said for many of the alternatives mentioned.
• Twitter, etc. has its uses. Thoughtful discourse is not among them.

This is already several tweets too long. So I will leave it here.

Isn't it great that we can't possibly comprehensively explain to the devs why this is such a bad move anywhere they'll listen? The formatting will make us sound like petty complainers instead of passionate fans who've written virtual essays on the topic, and that applies to feedback about the games, too. That's one of the worst parts about this. They're practically admitting they don't care for feedback to make their games better. It's pathetic.

 

And again, while I am sad they are Ignoring me and everyone else, I do understand why. And our intelligence? Have you read this thread?!

Yes. I haven't read all of it, but I've seen plenty of well-thought-out, reasonable, intelligent, passionate posts from hundreds of fans about why this is, quite simply, a stupid idea. I don't understand how you missed them.

[Iakus]

Well, good thing the vast majority of posters I've seen respond in this 272-page thread have been reasonable and weren't screaming obscenities or calling people names then

 

 

I've got over 30,000 posts to my name, and I've been as critical of Bioware as any, and more than most.  

 

You'll be hard pressed to find any obscenities or name-calling in any of them