1311 Antworten in diesem Thema

[nightscrawl]

The more I think about it, the more I think they are trying to rebuild the community. The BSN was a big project, shifting the community from the old legacy forums to the BSN. It feels like the new Bioware community managers are very deliberately trying to undo the community that was built by Chris Priestly in the years past. I don't know if Priestly was the guy who made the decisions for the BSN, but that era of this community is very much being razed to the ground.

 

I can only think they must have some long-term plan to re-introduce a new forum community when ME:A launches in 2017. They probably want a fresh start with a totally clean slate, rather than trying to redeem this community that they inherited. 

 

So they're hoping, what, that certain toxic people won't hear about the new forums opening up and come back to continue their trolling?

[SKAR]

No more forums = they don't give a damn about their fans. If they did they wouldn't take away the forums. The official story is bull$#!t. But like Joker said in the beginning of Mass Effect only an Idiot believes the official story.

[Reever]

I really don't understand why the heck you'd take such a decision. It's like shooting yourself in the foot and alienating your core fandom. Very dumb move.

 

I haven't been active in the last few years anyway, but the forums were still a source of info and some good discussions about ME. And I would have loved to continue observing/taking part in these in the future.

 

But alas, I guess it won't be on these forums anymore.

[ObserverStatus]

If BioWare doesn't want to continue investing time and money into this little corner of the greater fandom, I guess that's their business. I truly did love the BioWare Social Network, but this place always did seem like a pretty sorry substitute, and I lost my remaining interest after BioWare closed Off-Topic. Oh well, the experiment is over, breakups happen. Good luck with whatever you decide to do next, BioWare. Live long, and make good games. Maybe some day I'll drop by on one of those newfangled social media platforms and say "hi."

[Allan Schumacher]

I don't think even they believe that but they had to give a reason and that's the one they ran with.

It happens a lot more as we get closer to release (and especially right after release) but even then it wasn't uncommon for long time forum regulars to get upset at, for example, why Hrungr even needed to have a Twitter thread when devs could be posting those comments and messages here on the forum.

 

I suspect the forum is a bit quieter at the moment so it might not be as obvious right now.

 

I was a mod at a very famous anime board run by the translator. I know exactly what you went through especially with porn spam and breaking the news to fans about things they did not want to hear regarding fav pairings, etc... and I quit and had a breakdown.

My brief stint as Community Manager was very eye opening. It's very challenging to try to keep ahead of the curve for that sort of stuff.  I try to be more diligent when I see very bad stuff on other forums I go onto now just to help out as much as I can.

 

Seems like in instances of actual moderation needing to be done, it should be with those generic "BioMod01" type accounts. That way people can't get mad at an actual name.

I actually did start to do that, although to limited effect as I didn't change how I wrote any moderator comments

 

That said though it's still me seeing stuff and taking care of it.  I actually found explicit retaliation when I moderated with this account limited (and rare enough that it was more humorous than aggravating).

 

From the mods own keyboard.

 

 

For context, if someone comes up to me on twitter and says that I should be aborted as a fetus so that competent QA would have been available to work on the game, I consider that unproductive and I am not interested in facilitating a discussion with that person.  On a place like twitter, I can happily block and move on.  On the forum, however, blocking people that were rude wasn't a thing.  I could (and would) moderate them, but unless it was a permanent ban they'd eventually return. If I had them muted/blocked then I'd be unable to see if they were being bad on the forum.

 

Twitter is certainly not ideal for lengthy feedback unless you are able to send direct messages, but people do still report issues they have with games as well as general critiques.  I can still facilitate discussion with those people.

 

As for the "random interjection" I'm referring to, when on the forum, I'm helping people who have specifically problem X.  Sometimes see that I'm actively helping those fans with their problem and get annoyed that they are getting all the attention, so they then come into a thread about Problem X to discuss problem Y, and sometimes even state that they will not leave because obviously Problem X thread is where devs are hanging out and it's the only way to bring attention to problem Y.  Unfortunately this usually ends up breaking out into a fight between fans as they get upset over thread derailment etc.  It also creates work for me (and the moderator team) if we decide to clean things up.

 

 

I don't know if you know me, but I've always had the utmost respect for you and the effort you put in for us here. I'm glad you're with us for the end

 

I do remember you and thank you for the kind words.

 

I think what you need is someone who does that job for you on a forum.

 

We had moderators, but honestly I asked for moderator powers from Chris back in the day because having it sit there and wait for moderators to see the report was often too long for my liking.

 

For a bit it was actually my job to help coordinate this as I was a temp Community Manager between DAI shipping and me joining MEA.  I was surprised how different my interactions felt simply by having it be my job.  I definitely prefer interacting with fans as a "volunteer gig" on my own time (such as right now).

[duckley]

There's a variety of angles that it can come from.

 

Post release, as someone that works in QA, seeing the issues that I cannot help resolve weighs on me because part of me feels I've let people down.  (not the fan's fault, but is something that weighs on the mind for sure).

 

As someone that tried to be active in community building, it also meant not ignoring obvious transgressions.  I remember when the Cullen thread received dozens of pages of porn image links spammed into it, and I felt I couldn't ignore it and went through cleaning up the thread and banning those responsible and investigating alt accounts and the like.  I could have ignored it, but that probably would have been more mentally worse for me.  I think I went to bed around 4 AM that day.  I could have just closed/deleted the thread, but that was what the trolls wanted so I didn't want to just take the easy road out.

And maybe I need tougher skin?  I'm probably not the best judge of that.  I don't think I had soft skin, just more that my armor wasn't impregnable and for better or worse me posting somewhere was a lightning rod for people to derail threads to get my attention and vent their frustrations at me.  So in that sense given enough time it just became, if not "stressful" then certainly much less fun.

Well I am certainly sorry if being connected to this board has caused you or anyone else significant stress. There are certainly some nasty people out there, who thrive on the anonymity of the internet. Unfortunately you sill find this sort of bullying, toxic behaviour on facebook, twitter etc - but likely it won't be yours to deal with - I get it.

 

A couple of thoughts already shared merit repeating IMO.

 

1) the rationale provided initially did not ring true and for me it made a lousy decision even more hurtful and disrespectful.

2) If the real reason for terminating the site is because of toxic participants - it is too bad that the exception creates the rule... I hate it when the sins of some punishes all.

3) If the real reason for terminating the site is because of toxic participants, as was suggested, it would have been great had Bioware reached out for help to clean up the posts and ban the offenders.

[AlanC9]

There would be a break between the new posts and old, but a site-rip as an archive should be possible.
I wish we'd done that to the old BioBoards before they took them down.

Have you tried the Internet Archive? The Wayback Machine works on this board, but I'm not sure about the old ones.

[vertigomez]

Allan, I understand where you're coming from when it comes to how fans interact with you and the other devs. I think Twitter and other outlets are probably better for that, and I don't blame any dev for not sticking around when the BSN gets hateful.

But where, oh where, are we supposed to talk to each other? To other fans? There's no place like this forum.

I hope someone can archive the place before it gets destroyed.

[Dr. Rush]

Let's not pretend that Priestly had a hand in building the community here, he was one of the more banhappy mods back in the day and shut down entire sub-forums because he didn't like what was being said in just a few threads.

I mean, my point was simply that I think the BSN was his "project" and now that he is gone, the current community people want to start over with their own vision for the Bioware community. 

[TevinterSupremacist]

For context, if someone comes up to me on twitter and says that I should be aborted as a fetus so that competent QA would have been available to work on the game, I consider that unproductive and I am not interested in facilitating a discussion with that person.  On a place like twitter, I can happily block and move on.  On the forum, however, blocking people that were rude wasn't a thing.  I could (and would) moderate them, but unless it was a permanent ban they'd eventually return. If I had them muted/blocked then I'd be unable to see if they were being bad on the forum.

This might sound extreme, but in the example you're describing, I'm still in favour of forums. Yes, that hypothetical person is an @$$hole, but so what? People already mentioned in this thread , being "toxic" is human behavior and in a forum it just takes the form of mean words which isn't something noteworthy. You mentioned how stressful moderating this place was, maybe that was because you considered people being nice and polite and so on as a goal to be achieved. It's not. It shouldn't be. Discussion doesn't have to be tea party and daisies. Banter is fine. At the end of the day, a string of characters in a discussion about electronic interactive toys about make belief in sci-fi/fantasy lands isn't something that should upset you.

 

Forums might be "violent", but the alternative is too sterilised. Discourse can't happen in a thought hospital.

Well, the forums are soon to die though, so I guess it's a thought graveyard now.

[SKAR]

Now it's the endings all over again only it's the forum endings. Do they need to make an extended cut for this too? Bioware you are on very thin ice with many people.

[Drone223]

With respect Allan, I said this in another thread and I'll say it here...

 

Without a effective means of giving feedback, criticism, concern etc. its going to be hard for players to have confidence in their products. By closing down their own forums Bioware is not only making themselves look bad but their also going to make even harder to sell their products. In order to sell a product one must respond to criticism and apply feedback to their products and without that criticism and feedback people are only going to be skeptical of their product.

 

Allan without BSN its going to be very hard for Bioware to improve their upcoming and future games. People will lose confidence in their ability to develop games since there is a lack of dialogue between the dev's and the community.

[CHRrOME]

 

And why would a BioWare Developer/Employee ever follow a random Twitter user that is a fan then? I used to be on Twitter and literally got no response from anyone EVER, because I didn't have 1872463435463453645 Followers or wasn't some known Youtuber. So now what? There goes that whole "staying in touch" on Twitter theory. 

 

I assume he meant "being in touch with the other devs" because for the rest, I totally agree with you as it's my own experience.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

So, I've wasted my time coming up with two examples. Both are of communications with BioWare through these forums, one of which they actually listened to.

 

This is the first. To be clear, that wasn't the first thread of its kind, and not the first by me. Mine dated back to January of 2013, at least, as that was when I was referred to as an "Elitest" in BSN's boards for several months. Upinya Slayin's threads went back further, and my support for the idea was no less clear in his threads from December 2012.

 

And as for This Thread, I have no idea how to put that in 140 characters on Twitter.

 

All of that ignores that giant QA problems created by cutting off the source of passive information in a passive QA system.

 

And is a waste of time, as I'm speaking to an entity that has chosen to ignore us.

[ObserverStatus]

Heh, who am I kidding? They don't even need our tweets to survive, they just need PewDiePie and Markiplier.

[Arvaarad]

I was always impressed with your stamina when you were here. I know I couldn't have handled the social pressure of doing what you were doing in a public venue.

Seconded. I work in tech, but I've never done community manager jobs. In one of my earlier jobs, I made the mistake of looking at user reviews unfiltered.

Let me tell you, it's completely different when you work for the company that's bearing the brunt of all the "joy" the internet offers. You start to feel personally responsible for every bad experience users have, no matter how trivial or dumb. It whips you into this insane frenzy of self-loathing and desire to read more and more, to know everything anyone has ever disliked about your product.

Nonwithstanding that, I ultimately still had the option to stop reading. And - eventually - I did. I had to. I don't have the patience or the fortitude. But I'm well aware that other teams in my company don't have that option. It's their job to drink from the sewage hose. To wade through the criticisms and the bile for stuff that can actually be turned into bug reports. To polish the one or two diamonds in it, as gifts to the other teams when morale flags.

Community managers, user support, and all those kinds of people, ARE SAINTS. If Allan and Conal say it's become impossible to deal with the forums, I believe them. A selfish part of me is hoping there's some way of making it work by picking community mods, but I understand where they're coming from.

[Hazegurl]

Let's not pretend that Priestly had a hand in building the community here, he was one of the more banhappy mods back in the day and shut down entire sub-forums because he didn't like what was being said in just a few threads.

Speaking of Priestly, here's a little exchange from EAware's Facebook page:

 

(Poster A) "I guess BioWare doesn't value community or the feedback that community provides...
That or Andromeda is really going to s*ck and they just don't want to deal with the criticism (I say this as a long time fan of the Mass Effect games - including ME3 - who was / kind of still is looking forward to Andromeda)."

 

(Poster B ) "Or maybe they are tired of being torn about by people who clam to be their fans. Constructive criticism is one thing but right now you have people who act more like online bully's then fans who want to give legit feedback."

 

(Poster A) "Sure there are some bullies - every forum has those - but most of the people I've conversed with on the BioWare forums have provided some great insights. Or, at the very least, provided some great discussions."

 

(BioWare) "We value and seek out the feedback our players give us. Despite the closure, we will always be listening."

 

(Poster A) "Since you're closing your own forums, where exactly will you be doing this listening?"

 

(Chris Priestly) "[Poster A] being a prime negative example of why the forums need to be closed. Instead of looking for new opportunities, dwell on negatives and criticize without factual basis."

 

Apparently asking them where they plan to listen to the fan feedback they keep saying they care about so much is a prime example of why the forum needs to be shut down.  

 

[VelvetStraitjacket]

Honestly, I can see why this decision was reached, with all the toxic people and trolls. But, in my opinion, it's a bit of an extreme decision, and I wish it didn't come to this, because BSN is how I kept up with Dragon Age and Mass Effect. I'm not on twitter and instagram 24/7 and it's nice to get all your info from one place.

Why not assign more moderators instead? It works for other forums to keep the undesirables in check.

[o Ventus]

One thing I just thought of, good luck trying to use Twitter to talk to devs when at least a couple of them are using blockbots. I would know, I've been blocked by some of them just for hashtagging #GamerGate, not even mentioning or referring to the devs in any way.

[Cassandra Saturn]

after all that, this just.. signals the end of Bioware by EA.

[JobacNoor]

Heh, who am I kidding? They don't even need our tweets to survive, they just need PewDiePie and Markiplier.

 

We can totally have long, structured discussions on lore and things like politics in the setting(s) in the comment sections to PewDiePie's videos. I have seen the light, these forums truly serve no purpose when such a superior option is available.

[Mlady]

My brief stint as Community Manager was very eye opening. It's very challenging to try to keep ahead of the curve for that sort of stuff.  I try to be more diligent when I see very bad stuff on other forums I go onto now just to help out as much as I can.

 

Yeah it's not easy and for me the other mods weren't doing much anymore and I was stuck with the admin and one other dedicated mod only (10 others just started to stop helping us). I felt bad for the users who were trying to enjoy themselves and I remember we had to lock down the whole forum because it became too much. I may not mod anything anymore but I still find myself acting like one sometimes lol you can be removed as a mod but the mod is always within you 

[Puddi III]

Community managers, user support, and all those kinds of people, ARE SAINTS. If Allan and Conal say it's become impossible to deal with the forums, I believe them. A selfish part of me is hoping there's some way of making it work by picking community mods, but I understand where they're coming from.

 

Allan I believe. Conal has barely even stepped foot in this forum except to tell us the next thing he's axing. The idea that spending time here drained him personally is laughable.

[o Ventus]

 

And why would a BioWare Developer/Employee ever follow a random Twitter user that is a fan then? I used to be on Twitter and literally got no response from anyone EVER, because I didn't have 1872463435463453645 Followers or wasn't some known Youtuber. So now what? There goes that whole "staying in touch" on Twitter theory. 

 

 

This is another reason why Twitter is garbage as a platform of discussion. Unless you're verified and have a million followers, nobody gives a f*** what you say. I have 122 followers as of right now, and any time I say something against a prominent public figure like a journalist or whoever, I'm told "lol who cares what a nobody with no followers thinks?"

[Reever]

For quality RPG discussion, there's always RPG Codex, there's even a sub-section dedicated to Bioware games -> http://www.rpgcodex....orporation.105/

 

I'd really love to see people register there just for the heck  of it