12 replies to this topic

[Nezhaa]

This is my first play through with a rouge archer. I used Howe and leliana before but all i did was put willpower and dex. And when i did the same for my character it keeps missing and i do no damage even with far song. What am i missing

[capn233]

What level are you?

 

What do your attributes look like?

 

What specialization have you taken?

 

What gear are you using?

 

What is your typical party, and how are they spec'd?

 

Are you in Origins?  Origins archery is a lot different than in Awakening because you don't have the "Accuracy" talent like Howe has.  In general the simplest way to do an archer for origins is to build it for auto-attack with sustains up.  People will argue over what they like best, but it is probably best to spend all your attribute points on dexterity or cunning, with whatever proportion between the two you want as long as you get Lethality.

 

Your attack vs enemy target defense determines the hit chance.  There are a lot of ways to increase attack, but as far as your attributes go strength and dexterity do this directly.  Indirectly cunning can, but that is via Song of Courage.  Alternatively, there is various gear that adds dexterity or attack.

 

Early game when crit chance is low, consider running Rapid Shot.  Later when you have gear with "Rapid Aim" attribute, use Aim instead.  Aim gives +15 attack if you have Master Archer.

 

Best specialization for archers is Bard (w/ Song of Courage to buff damage, crit chance, and attack), the next best depends on how you want to play the character, where you invest your points, etc.  Duelist is good for +"11" attack (via Dueling active and +2 dex), or Ranger is ok if you like pets / summons.

 

The wiki has a strategy section for archery that might be helpful to you.

[Snowdog65]

This is my first play through with a rouge archer. I used Howe and leliana before but all i did was put willpower and dex. And when i did the same for my character it keeps missing and i do no damage even with far song. What am i missing

 

Maybe too many points in willpower. 

 

If you are having trouble hitting, switching to a cunning build will only make that worse.

 

Maximize Dex, and go Duelist to maximizing your hit rate.

[Elhanan]

These are my general recommendations:

For my archers, I like to utilize Heavy armor and take advantage of the Master Archer perk. But this is not to everyone's taste. So plan your STR accordingly. For Light armor, STR 20 DAO/ 24 DAA; Medium - STR 34 DAO/ 44 DAA; and Heavy STR 38 DAO/ 48 DAA.

CON can be up to 20.

CUN for Warriors at 16; Rogues between 22 - 30.

MGC at base.

WILL between 20-30

Then I max DEX as much as possible.

As for abilities, I prefer Aim, Defensive Stance, and Accuracy as modes; Shattering Shot, Scattershot, Critical Shot, and Arrow of Death as activated talents. For gear, Rapid Aim items are helpful.

[Snowdog65]

These are my general recommendations:

For my archers, I like to utilize Heavy armor and take advantage of the Master Archer perk. But this is not to everyone's taste. So plan your STR accordingly. For Light armor, STR 20 DAO/ 24 DAA; Medium - STR 34 DAO/ 44 DAA; and Heavy STR 38 DAO/ 48 DAA.
 

 

That is a excellent trade-off in DAO.  Some don't realize that Strength is just as good as Dex, for both attack/damage with bows in DAO, so you lose no bow attack/damage by boosting strength to meet heavy armor requirements. You just lose a bit of defense to the lost Dex, but maxing dex after that point you end up with very good Armor and very good defense.

 

But I must say, I find archery is second class in DAO:

 

Many of the talents of Warriors/Rogues are aimed at melee weapons. 

Bows don't get rune slots, lose a lot of attack/defense buffs.

Bow rate of fire is slow (compared to dual wielding).

If you turn on rapid shot bow talent, you can't get crits (if you turn on Momentum with dual wield you still get crits).

Frost weapon, Fire Weapon, and Telekenetic weapon buffs only work on Melee weapons.

Haste makes bows slower.

 

What I usually do is make all my Warriors/Rogues a minor Archer. Give them a Good bow and maybe a couple of talents.  That way you can start a fight at range, take out mages, or play keep away with tough bosses with everyone in the party, when you need too and switch back to more effective melee weapons when needed.

[capn233]

But I must say, I find archery is second class in DAO:

Yeah it is underwhelming in Origins. Maybe overbuffed in Awakenings.
 

Haste makes bows slower.

For people on pc it is worth getting bug fix mods, and this is one of the things they fix.

http://www.nexusmods...age/mods/4384/?

http://www.nexusmods...age/mods/1601/?

[Snowdog65]

Yeah it is underwhelming in Origins. Maybe overbuffed in Awakenings.
 

For people on pc it is worth getting bug fix mods, and this is one of the things they fix.

 

 

Yep, overpowered in Awakenings. Accuracy and Spirit Warrior both make Archers crazy powerful. I went the other way in Awakenings, everyone was primarily an Archer. It was silly fun, but so OP it felt like cheating.

 

I am torn on the fixes. I tried the rules fixpack but it felt like cheating.  It allows Momentum and Haste to stack making DW rogues crazy powerful. They attack  devastatingly fast, to the point of absurdity.  I went back to the vanilla game warts and all.

 

My only mods:

Auto loot.

Skip the Fade (not on first play).

Camp Chest

[capn233]

I am torn on the fixes. I tried the rules fixpack but it felt like cheating.  It allows Momentum and Haste to stack making DW rogues crazy powerful. They attack  devastatingly fast, to the point of absurdity.  I went back to the vanilla game warts and all.

 

My only mods:

Auto loot.

Skip the Fade (not on first play).

Camp Chest

 

I think if you go with all the available fixes it probably works out to about neutral.

 

Some of the fixes help the player, and some help the enemy.  As far as weapon speed goes, IIRC the total speed is just capped so it never goes negative, and a few of the things are individually fixed, but speed buff is never faster than -0.5.

 

Curse of Mortality fix really helps the enemy a lot more than the player since you can't regen through it at all.  Shield Wall fix helps the enemy with the 20% damage nerf actually applied.  Howl defense penalty.  Dual Weapon Expert dot is a noticeable buff for enemies as well.  Then you have gear and item checks that actually work right, and the no-poison stack is actually pretty significant nerf.

[Elhanan]

That is a excellent trade-off in DAO.  Some don't realize that Strength is just as good as Dex, for both attack/damage with bows in DAO, so you lose no bow attack/damage by boosting strength to meet heavy armor requirements. You just lose a bit of defense to the lost Dex, but maxing dex after that point you end up with very good Armor and very good defense.
 
But I must say, I find archery is second class in DAO:
 
Many of the talents of Warriors/Rogues are aimed at melee weapons. 
Bows don't get rune slots, lose a lot of attack/defense buffs.
Bow rate of fire is slow (compared to dual wielding).
If you turn on rapid shot bow talent, you can't get crits (if you turn on Momentum with dual wield you still get crits).
Frost weapon, Fire Weapon, and Telekenetic weapon buffs only work on Melee weapons.
Haste makes bows slower.
 
What I usually do is make all my Warriors/Rogues a minor Archer. Give them a Good bow and maybe a couple of talents.  That way you can start a fight at range, take out mages, or play keep away with tough bosses with everyone in the party, when you need too and switch back to more effective melee weapons when needed.

If one sticks with a pure archer perhaps, but I prefer a hybrid design with the focus on archer (set Ranged in Tactics).

Bows may not have runes, but I find they are not required at a distance (see Staves). And a hybrid archer can carry DW or Weapon & Shield, and is effective in both DAO & DAA.

DW may appear faster, but one has to get to the encounter first. The archer can kill and CC at range before that can occur. In DAA, Accuracy with a high DEX can get the kills even more swiftly, as I have used three archers and a Mage for the expansion several times; no active archer Talents required.

The bonus Magic is not needed; even sell my magical arrows instead of using them. And have only used Haste for a single game out of more than 20+ campaigns; many more now.

I recommend skipping the Arrow of Death line initially, using the CC line instead if talents are desired. Master Archer is a priority, then Accuracy, and then Shatter & Scatter Shot. Whether one likes the talents higher than Accuracy is a coin flip, as the Friendly Fire can be deadly.

[Snowdog65]

If one sticks with a pure archer perhaps, but I prefer a hybrid design with the focus on archer (set Ranged in Tactics).

DW may appear faster, but one has to get to the encounter first. The archer can kill and CC at range before that can occur. In DAA, Accuracy with a high DEX can get the kills even more swiftly, as I have used three archers and a Mage for the expansion several times; no active archer Talents required.

 

As I noted. I do some archery on all my Rogue/Warriors. So I don't have to get to the enemy. I start shooting at them at range with everyone, and when they close I switch to melee talents.

 

By the end of Origins my DW Rogue, had Master Archer and Scattershot in the archery tree filled in. Though I only gave rapid shot to Allistair, as he completely filled all shield talents most warrior talents and a lot of Templar/Champion talents.

 

Yes Archery is super powered in Awakenings. It is a total reversal of the situation in that expansion.

[Snowdog65]

I think if you go with all the available fixes it probably works out to about neutral.

 

Some of the fixes help the player, and some help the enemy.  As far as weapon speed goes, IIRC the total speed is just capped so it never goes negative, and a few of the things are individually fixed, but speed buff is never faster than -0.5.

 

Are you sure "never faster than -0.5 applies to both fix packs? 

 

Which one do you use?

 

I only tried the DARF and not Dains.

[Elhanan]

As I noted. I do some archery on all my Rogue/Warriors. So I don't have to get to the enemy. I start shooting at them at range with everyone, and when they close I switch to melee talents.
 
By the end of Origins my DW Rogue, had Master Archer and Scattershot in the archery tree filled in. Though I only gave rapid shot to Allistair, as he completely filled all shield talents most warrior talents and a lot of Templar/Champion talents.
 
Yes Archery is super powered in Awakenings. It is a total reversal of the situation in that expansion.

But even in DAO, an archer Hybrid can be devastating; not to mention so versatile for the game. I have tried both DW and Archer as priorities, and prefer the archer. This may be due to the frustration seen from Overwhelm and other special attacks, as the archer can remain further back, and not even three Hale runes are seemingly good enough to prevent them when in melee. But the Heavy armor does protect for both, so there is that.

[Snowdog65]

But even in DAO, an archer Hybrid can be devastating; not to mention so versatile for the game. I have tried both DW and Archer as priorities, and prefer the archer. This may be due to the frustration seen from Overwhelm and other special attacks, as the archer can remain further back, and not even three Hale runes are seemingly good enough to prevent them when in melee. But the Heavy armor does protect for both, so there is that.

 

I suppose if your goal is to have a tank take the brunt of attacks, you can stay out of the fray more.

 

But  from my experience, Overwhelm is more a problem when beset by a pack of werewolves and shadow versions, which get everyone, not just the tank.  Or spiders that drop on everyone. It isn't like enemies always start at a convenient distance, only in front of you. Very often you are swarmed from all directions, and then there is no real distance benefit.

 

Other than that, I don't see how your Archer Priority Hybrid, makes your Arrows that much more devastating that my DW Hybrid with  pretty much the same archery talents? I only skipped the AoS line, which is questionable.  I have same attack/damage bonus from Str/Dex.

 

You may get your talents a bit earlier, but how many of them are really that great? Archery is mostly just auto-attack.  As long as you have the Str/Dex for good attack/damage and the dex to equip the best bows, any rogue/warrior is going to do decent Bow damage.

 

In DAO it seems more like a secondary, than primary role. Everyone can do it, half decently anyway.