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[TheAtomicSurvivor]

So I been replaying Dragon Age Inquisition because I was finally not poor enough to be able to afford the other DCLs as well. Anyway, Fintan my mage elf Inquisitor who in my head is actually was a ward for someone in his clan, as next to close to as a Keeper as you can get.

 

He was appalled by the behavior of the Mages behavior in Redcliff. I mean that's practically also an act of war on Tevinter's part. He conscripted the Mages not because they were Mages, but because they practically seized Redcliff and its castle and nearly allowed enemy to take over Tevinter.

 

And he agreed with Cassandra, they should not be coddled they new exactly what they were doing. Maybe not the whole plan, but close enough to know this was a bad thing.

 

Only to realize, he gets massive disapproval from the whole party, except for a few. Vivienne is too radical about the circle, and Cassandra to him seems to be the only clear thinker here. 

 

He even explained why he did it, when the advisors were arguing. They seized Recliff village. Why such a massive disaproval? Should they live with no consequences of their actions? It's not because they are mages at all. And you know this is my line of thinking a.k.a Fintan's like of thinking:

 

-He did not say they were indefinitely conscripted

-He did not say it was because they were mages, he already expressed that mages should be free, but they must also be accountable for their actions. They did not have a small part to play in this circumstance, they had a huge one. 

 

Yet, none of my party members can think this through?

[Abyss108]

Well, it was either that or get murdered by the Templars. I can't really blame them for doing whatever it took to stay alive. 

 

It was either that, die, or go back to prison. 

[Dabrikishaw]

Blackwall, Solas, Cole, and Dorian will always disapprove of mage conscription. That's just how they are, and what the approval system is supposed to represent. Varric's approval depends on who Hawke sided with at the end of Dragon Age ][.

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

Well, it was either that or get murdered by the Templars. I can't really blame them for doing whatever it took to stay alive. 

 

It was either that, die, or go back to prison. 

 

But they didn't know that. Alexius effectively used time magic, so those two options were not the options they had. Alexius came right an opportune time.

 

But beyond that though, they should still be held accountable, even if they were the "victims" in the situation. They still made a mistake.

[Abyss108]

But they didn't know that. Alexius effectively used time magic, so those two options were not the options they had. Alexius came right an opportune time.

 

But beyond that though, they should still be held accountable, even if they were the "victims" in the situation. They still made a mistake.

 

 

What didn't they know? I didn't mention anything about Alexius in my post, I was just talking about the Feralden mages locking themselves in Redcliffe.

 

The mages were losing the war and being slaughtered. In an attempt to save themselves they holed themselves up in Redcliffe, and then allied with Tevinter in an effort to survive. It was either that, or die/back to prison. What other option did they have in this situation?

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

What didn't they know? I didn't mention anything about Alexius in my post, I was just talking about the Feralden mages locking themselves in Redcliffe.

 

The mages were losing the war and being slaughtered. In an attempt to save themselves they holed themselves up in Redcliffe, and then allied with Tevinter in an effort to survive. It was either that, or die/back to prison. What other option did they have in this situation?

 

That's not how the game explains it. Fiona didn't even show up to the Conclave in the first place, soooo......I mean....she didn't even try to be there for her so called people in order to fight for them and their freedom or to be part of the Peace Talks between templars and mages. Its clear to me she didn't really want to be part of the talks and was all talk about freedom, but did nothing for her people's freedom.

[Abyss108]

That's not how the game explains it. Fiona didn't even show up to the Conclave in the first place, soooo......I mean....she didn't even try to be there for her so called people in order to fight for them and their freedom or to be part of the Peace Talks between templars and mages. Its clear to me she didn't really want to be part of the talks and was all talk about freedom, but did nothing for her people's freedom.

 

 

Because she suspected a trap, the same as Lord Seeker Lucius who also didn't turn up to the conclave. So both sides did the same thing there and refused to have "talks". Honestly, I don't see why she should be expected to talk nicely to her prison guards in the first place.

 

Even if you don't agree with Fiona there, and think she did nothing for mages, that doesn't mean the rest of the mages should suffer and be conscripted for it. They were just trying to stay alive in a bad situation. Everything they did, they only did because any alternative would likely result in their death. 

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

Because she suspected a trap, the same as Lord Seeker Lucius who also didn't turn up to the conclave. So both sides did the same thing there and refused to have "talks". Honestly, I don't see why she should be expected to talk nicely to her prison guards in the first place.

 

Even if you don't agree with Fiona there, and think she did nothing for mages, that doesn't mean the rest of the mages should suffer and be conscripted for it. They were just trying to stay alive in a bad situation. Everything they did, they only did because any alternative would likely result in their death. 

 

But they should still be accountable for their actions. So I am going to go with a very simple example, that doesn't quite capture the complexity and I know this, however, let's go:

 

-Pretend you got a Job Interview 

-And then decided not to go because you were worried that you weren't going to pass the interview, but needed the money

-So instead of going to the interview, you go steal from a bank because you weren't going to get the job anyway

 

Do you get to walk around freely after that?

 

I know it's an oversimplifcation, but I condone the both of them for not going. But Lord Lucius I didn't like as a character in general Alexius and Samson were better villains, they had humanity. Felt like Lucious was cartoony evil. It be nicer to see a more Human side of Lucius. Cassandra talks a game about how he was an unassuming man, who was not charasterically evil. The game suggested the Envy demon took on the insecurities and fears of the other person, which would have been nicer to have introduced Lucius as a sympathetic human being.

 

Either way I digress.

 

It does not excuse her actions. She practically seized Redcliff under the Tevinter power, nearly allowed a cult to destroy the world, and refused to do anything to make her situation better. Then cried fowl. There stills needs to be actions for her crimes.

 

Wish there was a third option to imprison Fiona and have the other Elf guy be the mage leader in her stead and keep the others free.

[thesuperdarkone2]

But they should still be accountable for their actions. So I am going to go with a very simple example, that doesn't quite capture the complexity and I know this, however, let's go:

-Pretend you got a Job Interview
-And then decided not to go because you were worried that you weren't going to pass the interview, but needed the money
-So instead of going to the interview, you go steal from a bank because you weren't going to get the job anyway

Do you get to walk around freely after that?

I know it's an oversimplifcation, but I condone the both of them for not going. But Lord Lucius I didn't like as a character in general Alexius and Samson were better villains, they had humanity. Felt like Lucious was cartoony evil. It be nicer to see a more Human side of Lucius. Cassandra talks a game about how he was an unassuming man, who was not charasterically evil. The game suggested the Envy demon took on the insecurities and fears of the other person, which would have been nicer to have introduced Lucius as a sympathetic human being.

Either way I digress.

It does not excuse her actions. She practically seized Redcliff under the Tevinter power, nearly allowed a cult to destroy the world, and refused to do anything to make her situation better. Then cried fowl. There stills needs to be actions for her crimes.

Wish there was a third option to imprison Fiona and have the other Elf guy be the mage leader in her stead and keep the others free.

What proof do you have that the mages helped the Venatori kick out Teagan? Evidence says that the Venatori alone kicked out Teagan after the mages invited them in

[Arshei]

Well, if you want to punish the mages wouldn't it be better let them see the consequences of their actions by siding with the templars and letting them be slaves of Tevinter?

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

What proof do you have that the mages helped the Venatori kick out Teagan? Evidence says that the Venatori alone kicked out Teagan after the mages invited them in

 

But they still allowed it to happen. I didn't say the mages did, but the mages did allow it to happen. I.E. Fiona. Honestly why can I not arrest Fiona?

[Abyss108]

But they should still be accountable for their actions. So I am going to go with a very simple example, that doesn't quite capture the complexity and I know this, however, let's go:

 

-Pretend you got a Job Interview 

-And then decided not to go because you were worried that you weren't going to pass the interview, but needed the money

-So instead of going to the interview, you go steal from a bank because you weren't going to get the job anyway

 

Do you get to walk around freely after that?

 

I know it's an oversimplifcation, but I condone the both of them for not going. But Lord Lucius I didn't like as a character in general Alexius and Samson were better villains, they had humanity. Felt like Lucious was cartoony evil. It be nicer to see a more Human side of Lucius. Cassandra talks a game about how he was an unassuming man, who was not charasterically evil. The game suggested the Envy demon took on the insecurities and fears of the other person, which would have been nicer to have introduced Lucius as a sympathetic human being.

 

Either way I digress.

 

It does not excuse her actions. She practically seized Redcliff under the Tevinter power, nearly allowed a cult to destroy the world, and refused to do anything to make her situation better. Then cried fowl. There stills needs to be actions for her crimes.

 

Wish there was a third option to imprison Fiona and have the other Elf guy be the mage leader in her stead and keep the others free.

 

 

If I got a job interview, but didn't go because the people at the interview wanted to kill me, and had to steal some money to not starve, no I don't think I'm the one who needs punishing in that situation. If I only stole to survive the people who wanted me dead, the people trying to kill me should be the ones punished.

 

Punishment for a crime is meant to deter people from committed that crime. If I only commit it because my hand was forced, punishing me serves no purpose. I'm still in a situation where I'm wrongly forced to do it. Remove the people causing that situation and there's no crime to punish.

 

Anyway - you seem to be punishing every single mage, just because you don't like one of their leaders. Why punish hundreds of people for the actions of one? 

[Abyss108]

But they still allowed it to happen. I didn't say the mages did, but the mages did allow it to happen. I.E. Fiona. Honestly why can I not arrest Fiona?

 

How could she have stopped it at that point?   There was nothing she could have done at that point, same as everyone else in Redcliffe who "allowed" Tevinter to take over.

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

If I got a job interview, but didn't go because the people at the interview wanted to kill me, and had to steal some money to not starve, no I don't think I'm the one who needs punishing in that situation. If I only stole to survive the people who wanted me dead, the people trying to kill me should be the ones punished.

 

Punishment for a crime is meant to deter people from committed that crime. If I only commit it because my hand was forced, punishing me serves no purpose. I'm still in a situation where I'm wrongly forced to do it. Remove the people causing that situation and there's no crime to punish.

 

Anyway - you seem to be punishing every single mage, just because you don't like one of their leaders. Why punish hundreds of people for the actions of one? 

 

Because it's the only option I had.

 

I rather

 

-Arrest Fiona

-Let the other guy, the one who sings Andraste Me, Andraste Me, in the prison sell, his name starts with an L, be the leader of the Free Mages Under the Inquisition

 

Instead we have two options

 

-Freedom

-Conscription

 

And I'm like.....but....what Fiona did....she should be accountable for it. 

[Abyss108]

Because it's the only option I had.

 

I rather

 

-Arrest Fiona

-Let the other guy, the one who sings Andraste Me, Andraste Me, in the prison sell, his name starts with an L, be the leader of the Free Mages Under the Inquisition

 

Instead we have two options

 

-Freedom

-Conscription

 

And I'm like.....but....what Fiona did....she should be accountable for it. 

 

 

No, you had 2 options -

 

- Punish hundreds for the action of one

- Let one go in order the help hundreds other

 

The second seems like a better option to me...

 

Anyway, what do you think Fiona should have done with the knowledge she had in this situation?

[thesuperdarkone2]

How could she have stopped it at that point? There was nothing she could have done at that point, same as everyone else in Redcliffe who "allowed" Tevinter to take over.

Not to mention that kicking Teagan out ensured that the mages lost Ferelden protection. That's exactly what happens if you side with them since they get exiled once the Venatori are gone. So it was either stay with the Venatori or face exile and have no place to go.

That of course assuming the mages could even defeat the Venatori considering they are in a defensible fortress and are likely more skilled than the rebel mages

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

No, you had 2 options -

 

- Punish hundreds for the action of one

- Let one go in order the help hundreds other

 

The second seems like a better option to me...

 

Anyway, what do you think Fiona should have done with the knowledge she had in this situation?

 

But the question really is, should have Fiona been allowed to get away with what she did? And I think not....

 

I think she should have went to the conclave, sure we then wouldn't have had a game or the Hushed Whispered and Champions of Just quest, but.....

 

Look, I had to deal with the court system myself recently. I didn't actually commit a crime, that's what my attorney said, and that's what a lot of people say when I have the opportunity to explain it.

 

But I still have to deal with a judge and attorney. 

 

I know it isn't exactly the same, but if she really wanted change, she would have put her big girl panties on and went to the Conclave. Instead of enslaving her people. 

[Abyss108]

But the question really is, should have Fiona been allowed to get away with what she did? And I think not....

 

I think she should have went to the conclave, sure we then wouldn't have had a game or the Hushed Whispered and Champions of Just quest, but.....

 

Look, I had to deal with the court system myself recently. I didn't actually commit a crime, that's what my attorney said, and that's what a lot of people say when I have the opportunity to explain it.

 

But I still have to deal with a judge and attorney. 

 

I know it isn't exactly the same, but if she really wanted change, she would have put her big girl panties on and went to the Conclave. Instead of enslaving her people. 

 

 

So you think the solution she should have picked was to die? Those were literally her only options - temporary enslavement or death for everyone.

 

And no, if you didn't commit a crime you shouldn't have to deal with that. Why should you?

 

You seem to support mage freedom but not Fiona so the real question here is whether it's more important to punish one person who made the best of a terrible situation even if it means making hundreds of other people worse off. How is punishing the one person ever the correct answer here?

[Arshei]

So you think the solution she should have picked was to die? Those were literally her only options - temporary enslavement or death for everyone.

 

And no, if you didn't commit a crime you shouldn't have to deal with that. Why should you?

 

You seem to support mage freedom but not Fiona so the real question here is whether it's more important to punish one person who made the best of a terrible situation even if it means making hundreds of other people worse off. How is punishing the one person ever the correct answer here?

 

If you side with the templars you see how wonderful was the decision of Fiona.

All the mages trusted Fiona, they followed her blindly, they could have been like Vivienne or just don't follow Fiona like sheeps.

[Barquiel]

"Ideological" reasons aside, I think it's always better to have willing allies than people who don't have a choice.

[Arshei]

"Ideological" reasons aside, I think it's always better to have willing allies than people who don't have a choice.

 

So the people forced into military service that helped to win a lot of wars, where a lie?

[Voidinist]

We have no idea how many of those under Fiona's leadership were fully on board with Tevinter's mage supremacy.

 

In the conscript route, surprise, you find out that not all of the mages are precious babies who need to be protected

"Located the cell. Fifteen mages. Materials suggest they are building explosives similar to the one used in Kirkwall. Targets are unknown."

 

Sure sounds like a nice bunch I should excuse and grant autonomy to.

[Barquiel]

So the people forced into military service that helped to win a lot of wars, where a lie?

 

Nope, but I think volunteers tend to fight harder than people who don't have a choice to be there. And this game seems to be a lot about second chances anyway.

[Vit246]

I don't conscript them cuz I don't wanna be seen as no different than the Templars and Chantry. So I give them a choice, even if its an illusion of choice. I want them to feel like they're being treated as political equals instead of vassals soon to be subjugated again by a foreign organization. It makes them feel more indebted to me. Conscription might backfire on me cuz its involuntary and they might resent me like templars and chantry.

[TheAtomicSurvivor]

I don't conscript them cuz I don't wanna be seen as no different than the Templars and Chantry. So I give them a choice, even if its an illusion of choice. I want them to feel like they're being treated as political equals instead of vassals soon to be subjugated again by a foreign organization. It makes them feel more indebted to me. Conscription might backfire on me cuz its involuntary and they might resent me like templars and chantry.

 

Well Fiona admits in a dialogue choice, that at first she thought Conscription would be like any other name. But then admits she was wrong about the way the Inquisition treats their mages.

 

Thus....