I just got done playing Inquisition and Holy crap!
Flemmeth aka "Mythal", and Solas aka "The Dread Wolf"
All former Elven Gods!!!! :0
One can turn into a Dragon at whim and the other can turn anyone to stone!!!! i wonder what the other Elven gods can do!!!
These guys could EASILY wipe out humans, the Blight, Tevinter, etc. EASILY!!
The elves always steal the show. In the best way.
Elves? No, these guy were crushed by humans.
Solas probably one of most powerful beings in Thedas.Still doesn't mean much, this ain't dragon ball or even naruto level of power.Darkspawn horde still would stomp him.
Flemeth was defeated by the warden so while she is powerful i doubt she was match for archdemon, not to mention she said that even she wouldn't stood a chance against darkspawn horde.
Flemeth and Solas are elven "gods." Their power is not indicative of the common elven people. Although if Solas succeeds in his goal to tear down the Veil, it's possible the elves will be restored of their magic and immortality, and since mages are stronger than everyone else and elves' magic is stronger than anyone else's, it's possible the restored elves will give the other races a run for their money.
Elves? No, these guy were crushed by humans.
Solas probably one of most powerful beings in Thedas.Still doesn't mean much, this ain't dragon ball or even naruto level of power.Darkspawn horde still would stomp him.
Flemeth was defeated by the warden so while she is powerful i doubt she was match for archdemon, not to mention she said that even she wouldn't stood a chance against darkspawn horde.
We never get to see Solas or Flemmeth in their primes or at full power bro.
Solas aka dread wolf is weak from just waking from slumber. while Flemeth aka Mythal has never truely recovered from her first death/betrayal
at their primes these two gods alone would **** on everyone in Thedas.
Flemeth and Solas are elven "gods." Their power is not indicative of the common elven people. Although if Solas succeeds in his goal to tear down the Veil, it's possible the elves will be restored of their magic and immortality, and since mages are stronger than everyone else and elves' magic is stronger than anyone else's, it's possible the restored elves will give the other races a run for their money.
True, however i'm guessing the common elven people were probly as strong as the keeper elves of the current timeline, which means they were probably pretty powerful themselves 
We never get to see Solas or Flemmeth in their primes or at full power bro.
Solas aka dread wolf is weak from just waking from slumber. while Flemeth aka Mythal has never truely recovered from her first death/betrayal
at their primes these two gods alone would **** on everyone in Thedas.
Solas yes, Flemeth no.There is no evidence to belive that Flemeth has more power than what she has shown so far.
Hardly, most of their power came from nature of the world that existed.Lack of veil would probably increase anyone's power, assuming they would survive.Plus, if darkspawn existed even before Elven gods still failed to defeat it.
Solas yes, Flemeth no.There is no evidence to belive that Flemeth has more power than what she has shown so far.
Hardly, most of their power came from nature of the world that existed.Lack of veil would probably increase anyone's power, assuming they would survive.Plus, if darkspawn existed even before Elven gods still failed to defeat it.
The lore makes her out to be atleast the 2nd most powerful elven god, she pwned half of them in fights and exercised a good amount of influence over them before the betrayal. Shes definitly in the top 3 or 4.
And yet she considerd a recently awakened solas/dread wolf more capable of carrying out their plans by entrusting him with her own soul. Solas even states that she more or less did die, she just somehow saved a piece of her essence through sheer will for revenge.
To me, this hints that both Mythal and Solas, and the first elves elves in general, were definitly more powerful than what was shown so far.
Solas also hints that their are other ways to defeat the darkspawn other than grey wardens, so it seems the elves have not only defeated blights before, but they may have even used them.
And they don't just control nature, they control space and time practically.
The lore makes her out to be atleast the 2nd most powerful elven god, she pwned half of them in fights and exercised a good amount of influence over them before the betrayal. Shes definitly in the top 3 or 4.
And yet she considerd a recently awakened solas/dread wolf more capable of carrying out their plans by entrusting him with her own soul. Solas even states that she more or less did die, she just somehow saved a piece of her essence through sheer will for revenge.
To me, this hints that both Mythal and Solas, and the first elves elves in general, were definitly more powerful than what was shown so far.
Solas also hints that their are other ways to defeat the darkspawn other than grey wardens, so it seems the elves have not only defeated blights before, but they may have even used them.
And they don't just control nature, they control space and time practically.
You are talking about Mythal, not Flemeth they are 2 different people.
There is no evidence of blights existing before as they are tied to the archdemon, plus a i have said they never were able to destroy it and were victims of it , ot at least assuming that entries spoke about blight not something else.
No evidence of that they can control time if i recall.
There probably exist more powerful beings than the elven gods. Hell, both Corypheus and the Nightmare demon might even be contenders for that. The former was immensly powerful and actually completely immortal (until he f*cked that up with his stupid Dragon idea) while we don't know the latters full capabilities (only that a mere aspect of it was enough to give Inquisitor, Hawke, Alistair/Stroud/Loghain and three companions, possibly with the inclusion of Solas himself, a tough fight). Not to mention that there might be even worse eldritch abominations lurking in the dephts of the fade.
Plus in the end the current protagonist will always be the most powerful, since her/his mere presence will usually let the god-level powerful antagonist forget that could easily kill her/him with a flick of their wrist and instead makes them only spam easily dogeable spells instead.
Indeed. Elves are gods. Every shem should bend a knee to their betters.
What about Titans and the dwarves being the practical literal children of the stone? The Titans shape the whole world itself.
Flemeth is very strong far stronger then many believe. I never did buy that "I'm a old women what do I know of darkspawn and blights?" nor that "We can't have all the wardens dying at once now can we?" Of course not! That would interfere with her plans on getting a old God through Morrigan. Notice how Flemeth picked the strongest and the weaker Alistair? She had Morrigan to watch you while you are on the Wilds quest.This comes out later in the game while talking to Morrigan in camp.
At the end of trespasser she gives her power and soul to Solas.
Flemeth was but a shadow of Mythal at the height of her power. It would appear that she led the elves in a conquest of at least one Titan. That was some seriously awesome power. Corypheus was simply a powered up (by red lyrium) ancient Magister who had discovered the secret of effective immortality. At the time he assaulted the Golden/Black City Tevinter was already on the decline and the priesthood were losing their grip; that is why they went searching for more power.
However, it took ancient Tevinter at the height of their power a full 6 years of fighting against the settlement in Arlathan Forest and they were still at stale mate, which is why someone (either them or the elves in the city) decided to resolve matters by sinking it into the ground. That settlement was but a shadow of an elven city at the height of their power, probably simply a more inhabited version of the Temple of Mythal, with a few more magic users. I doubt it was the true Arlathan although it may have been a remnant of it. Nevertheless it is clear that even at the height of its power Tevinter didn't come anywhere near approaching the magic of the Evanuris. This is why if Solas succeeds in releasing them; even in a weakened state they are likely to be very bad news (assuming of course everyone hasn't simply been fried in the process).
Mind you I don't think the Evanuris were really what you would call elves. In fact Flemeth called Mythal the wisp of an ancient being not the wisp of an ancient elf. Despite what Solas told his supporters, I don't feel they were no different to the ordinary elves pre-Veil. They were not simply very powerful mages. They had developed far beyond that definition, which is why the elves held them in such reverence.
My own theory is that they began as immensely powerful nature spirits (light, water, earth, fire, airx2 and the creative impulse itself, June), that were called into form and consciousness by a force or forces unknown, whose nature was to create, guide and teach (which is what the Dalish lore recalls) but owing to a war (possibly with the Titans), their nature was warped so that they now felt compelled to rule, command and destroy, drawing on the violent side of nature. They powered up with lyrium and became the god tyrants of Trespasser. Think of the Lady of the Forest in DAO but immensely more powerful, as even she might have been pre-Veil.
Mind you I don't think the Evanuris were really what you would call elves. In fact Flemeth called Mythal the wisp of an ancient being not the wisp of an ancient elf. Despite what Solas told his supporters, I don't feel they were no different to the ordinary elves pre-Veil. They were not simply very powerful mages. They had developed far beyond that definition, which is why the elves held them in such reverence.
My own theory is that they began as immensely powerful nature spirits (light, water, earth, fire, airx2 and the creative impulse itself, June), that were called into form and consciousness by a force or forces unknown, whose nature was to create, guide and teach (which is what the Dalish lore recalls) but owing to a war (possibly with the Titans), their nature was warped so that they now felt compelled to rule, command and destroy, drawing on the violent side of nature. They powered up with lyrium and became the god tyrants of Trespasser. Think of the Lady of the Forest in DAO but immensely more powerful, as even she might have been pre-Veil.
I like your theory but I prefer a more cynical view of things:
Solas is not all powerful or all knowing. In fact, he's barely any better than a common mage when he wakes up from his slumber. He's very vulnerable and in the dark future, he can even become corrupted and enslaved by Corypheus along with everyone else. Cory could have obliterated him in a heartbeat.
At the height of his power, Solas may have become revered as a god, but he still was just an elf. A very powerful elf, but an elf nonetheless. He wasn't a different species or a different kind of creature. So were Mythal, Elgar'Nan and all the other Evanuris. They were elves who became extremely adept at magic and manipulating reality, hence their ascent to godhood. You could argue they became something more than elves, but they definitely started off as elves.
Before the fall of Arlathan, all elves had magic and all elves were immortal, so everyone got a fair shot at "godhood". At least until the Evanuris climbed to the top of the food-chain and started holding everyone else down.
The Evanuris were the ones who created this creepy cult of personality and power hierarchy to begin with, where a small clique became the elite and eventually, gods, while everyone else was being kept down. They wanted to be worshiped so they created a social order where this was possible. That doesn't make them not-elves though.
Flemeth definitely calls Mythal an ancient being, rather than an ancient elf. Abelas also says in his hidden writing that those who came after the Veil are faithful to Mythal but "do not understand what she was in her fullness". Again this is an odd way to talk of someone who was an elf such as he. I don't think that reverence comes just because she placed herself at the head of the pecking order; she was different and superior in what she could do.
Solas at the beginning of DAI is not the same as Solas in Trespasser. He says when he first awoke he was weak. How many mages do you know who can turn someone to stone permanently without even looking at them? Solas was also capable of a great deal more in the past. He did after all create the Veil. We don't know if he did this alone (probably unlikely) but this was reality changing magic. Most of Corypheus' power came from the orb, an elven artefact.
I think the whole point about the ancient elves and the Evanuris in particular, is that they were different creatures from modern elves. They were the People, the Elvhen. It would be more correct to say that was the starting point and modern elves are what they became.
If you look at the statues and pictures of the Evanuris they look strange, almost alien. If you look at the statue of Mythal I wouldn't automatically look at it and think she was an elf. The Evanuris can adopt different forms. They also warn against the "forms of Fen'Harel". The guise of the humble wanderer is just one of these. He may claim that he was Solas to begin with but that doesn't mean we are actually seeing him in his true form.
Elves were once the most powerful race in the DA'verse, but after Solas created the Veil, they were reduced massively in power and influence to the point where they were barely able to function as a race in Thedas. The result being that the Elves have been subjugated by virtually everyone else at one point or another. The down fall of the elves is something that can be laid directly at Solas' feet. The way the world is at the end of DA:I, the elves are largely just refugees praying to their gods to return their former greatness and trying not to go extinct while they wait for an answer. Should Solas succeed in his plans, that will be a game changer. Imagine the Dalish with the power of the ancient elves. They may not be as powerful as Solas and Flemeth, but their weakest would become vastly more powerful than any Human/Qunari mage or Human/Qunari/Dwarf Warrior ever could be. I foresee rivers of blood and tempests of magic in DA4 with power mad Elves being the new great evil threatening the world... People will remember the good ol' days of when it was only the blight, Darkspawn, and the occasional tainted Old God you had to worry about...
Flemeth definitely calls Mythal an ancient being, rather than an ancient elf. Abelas also says in his hidden writing that those who came after the Veil are faithful to Mythal but "do not understand what she was in her fullness". Again this is an odd way to talk of someone who was an elf such as he. I don't think that reverence comes just because she placed herself at the head of the pecking order; she was different and superior in what she could do.
Solas at the beginning of DAI is not the same as Solas in Trespasser. He says when he first awoke he was weak. How many mages do you know who can turn someone to stone permanently without even looking at them? Solas was also capable of a great deal more in the past. He did after all create the Veil. We don't know if he did this alone (probably unlikely) but this was reality changing magic. Most of Corypheus' power came from the orb, an elven artefact.
I think the whole point about the ancient elves and the Evanuris in particular, is that they were different creatures from modern elves. They were the People, the Elvhen. It would be more correct to say that was the starting point and modern elves are what they became.
If you look at the statues and pictures of the Evanuris they look strange, almost alien. If you look at the statue of Mythal I wouldn't automatically look at it and think she was an elf. The Evanuris can adopt different forms. They also warn against the "forms of Fen'Harel". The guise of the humble wanderer is just one of these. He may claim that he was Solas to begin with but that doesn't mean we are actually seeing him in his true form.
But ancient elves are ancient beings. One does not exclude the other. I agree with you that they were more than what modern elves are thanks to Solas mucking things up with the Veil, so if she had just said "elf", she would have had to blurt out a bunch of exposition explaining this distinction between modern elves and their ancestors, and also how the Evanuris came to attain godhood. Which is explained in the game anyway, just not through Flemeth. Perhaps Flemeth didn't want to be specific or ruin the mystique of the Evanuris? You also have to bear in mind that:
1) Abelas is a slave of Mythal, he worships her. It's normal that he would have a larger than life view of her. Solas, on the other hand, is a lot more humble when he talks about himself and his Evanuris buddies.
2) The modern elves know extremely little of their true origins and their true history. They also know almost nothing about the true nature of their gods. Most of what they know is mired in myth. For example, they have no idea the vallaslin was a symbol of enslavement akin to markings on cattle. They have no idea how the Evanuris really treated the elves of old, and so on.
Solas is the same Solar throughout, he is just weakened by the uthenera when we first encounter him. But it's not like he's a different being. Like I said, him being very powerful does not make him not-an-elf. Ancient elves had a completely different relationship with magic than anything the mortal races have been able to achieve, so such a being would appear mysterious and god-like to mortals. And this happened partly because there was no Veil to separate them from the Fade, and partly because they lived forever and had ample amounts of time to perfect their knowledge and skills.
We know since DA:O that elven society massively regressed when they lost their immortality. The elves of old are the ancestors of these regressed remnants of an ancient empire, but they're still elves, which was my original point. Arguing they're not really elves would be like arguing the ancient Egyptians weren't really Egyptians just because modern Egypt is a pale shadow of the empire it was 4000 years ago. They were elves then and they are elves now, it's just that their civilization suffered tremendously and was nearly wiped out.
To address your final points, shapeshifting isn't really that odd in the DA lore. It's a rare school of magic, but completely doable, even by mortal mages. So the fact that the Evanuris are sometimes depicted as looking like animals isn't strange at all.
Secondly, bear in mind that ancient art is often stylized, not realistic. Take the Easter Island heads created by the Rapa Nui people as an example. They depict human chieftains, but they look "alien-like" as well. You could argue the same is true about the old statues of Mythal & co.
If the Veil is removed, it stands to reason that the modern elves would go back to being how they once were - immortal and completely attuned to the Fade / source of magic. At least that is what Solas believes. (and Sandal) Their current mortal state is not natural.
However, considering how crappy Solas is at gauging the outcome of his spells, removing the Veil could very well destroy everyone, the elves included. This plays into one of the running themes of the series - that simply being very powerful does not automatically mean you fully understand your power.
I think that the ancient ones, like Abelas, might regain the full power but I do not believe that is what would happen with the modern elves. They are too far removed from what they once were. They have had generation upon generation of removal from connection with the Fade. There is the magical signature in their blood but that is no different really to any mage. That is why Solas says Lavellan will die along with the rest. At best what will happen is that they will be reborn in their true form, the magical signature in their blood being their elven spirit that will reform in the Fade.
In Masked Empire, when Felassan is preparing to enter the Fade and confront Fen'Harel, it says that he "calmed his breathing until he found his true self inside the shell of his flesh". If it doesn't turn out that elves were originally spirits that took on material form, like Cole, when they came into contact with the material world, I shall be very much surprised. The longer they stayed on the material side of the Fade, the less like spirits they became, but because they were still in direct contact with it, they still retained their magical abilities and the immortality of spirits. Then the Veil was raised and they were suddenly cut off from their source of sustenance. Look at Cole, you can urge him to embrace his spiritual side, which is what Solas wants, or you can encourage him to embrace his human side, with all its messy emotions. I believe the reason Solas is against you encouraging him to be more human is because he is afraid of him being corrupted by those emotions, just as the ancient ones were. Also a spiritual Cole will survive what Solas is planning on doing, whereas a human Cole will not.
Yeah, the elves that are alive now might not suddenly become immortal, but their offspring several generations down the line might eventually go back to being the way they were. Though it's unclear how that might happen if all of them are going to die once Solas removes the Veil. Who will be left to carry on the elven species? Just the handful of ancient elves that are still around and currently hiding in uthenera? It's also unclear why everyone must die.
Considering how many modern elves decided to follow Solas, he has to be promising them something more than "Well, ya'll will die horribly, but your future descendants that you're not even really related to might go back to being immortal".
Everything living in Thedas has a spirit side, humans included. Their spirits enter the Fade when they die and when they sleep. Nijall is dead in the real world but his spirit still roams the Fade. So spirits could well be the ancestors of all races in the physical realm, the original inhabitants of the world. Before the Veil though, the Fade and the physical realm were one world, so its interesting the speculate what spirits were like before they got disconnected from the physical world. Maybe they lost something too? I don't think the lore is yet clear enough on that.
Everything we know so far about the world being divided in the physical realm and the Fade realm isn't true of the time before the Veil. The modern elves, for example, claim that the elven gods did not walk the "mortal world" but instead communicated with them from the Fade, but if the mortal world and the Fade were one and the same, that wouldn't really make any sense.
Humans can f*ck any other race and be f*cked by any other race and still make Humans...
That's probably my least favorite thing about Dragon Age.
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