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[Gervaise]

I was re-reading the entry on Darinius and it states that back before he established the Imperium, the kingdom of Neromenian had only 3 patron gods, Dumat, Toth and Luscan.    Razikale was definitely always the patron goddess of Tevinter, in particular Minrathous.   That leaves Zazikel, Andoral and Urthemiel to be shared between Tevinter and the old kingdom of Qarinus.   Or do you suppose that Razikale was the only patron of Tevinter until the Imperium came into being?

 

This got me to wondering.   Dumat is credited with teaching Thalsian blood magic.    Chantry propaganda has always been that all the old gods were associated with blood magic but it is possible that was not the case.  (I ignore what is said in the Canticle of Silence because that may be pure political propaganda).  The other kingdoms may have adopted blood magic in order to keep up with the kingdom of Neromenian, but it is equally possible that, say, Razikale taught alternative forms of magic, at least in the early days.   

 

Final thought, Minrathous has never fallen to enemy armies, even the darkspawn, throughout its entire history.   Razikale has not yet been corrupted by the darkspawn (or at least not released).    Could it be that even though Razikale stopped speaking to her faithful priests, the magic they used in her name still protects the city and will continue to do so until Razikale falls?

[Dai Grepher]

Is this more World of Thedas junk? Those volumes were total mistakes.

 

Anyway, no. I don't think it has anything to do with Razikale's magic or advice. Urthemiel wouldn't have been corrupted when he was had it not been for the Architect. So that was not a natural blight. Razikale's corruption is probably many years away, as the darkspawn that were digging toward Urthemiel are now going to have to dig in a different direction.

 

I also think all the old gods were present before the Veil's creation, as Morrigan suggests.

[Gervaise]

Clarification please on that bit about Morrigan.   We didn't know there had been a pre-Veil while Morrigan was still with us.   What did she say?

 

Mind you the Keep has changed the arrival of humans in Thedas to -3900, a thousand years before the raising of the Veil.   So I wonder who they worshipped then?    Even if that date is a typo and it should still read -3100 (as found in WoT) the timeline in the Keep confirms that the elves lost their immortality in -2850, so humans were definitely around before the raising of the Veil.

 

Also checking the timeline in the Keep, it confirms that the kingdom of Tevinter was formed in -1700, the same time as Neromenian, Qarinus and Barindur.    The latter is not mentioned in the Keep but it was destroyed in -1600 and priests of Razikale had receive portents of doom that caused them to send people to investigate, so Tevinter was already worshipping Razikale then.

 

The Keep confirms that blood magic was first practiced in -1595.   This was by Thalsian in Neromenian, so it would appear I am right and whatever benefits that Razikale initially gave to her priests, blood magic wasn't introduced to them by her.

[Dai Grepher]

Clarification please on that bit about Morrigan.   We didn't know there had been a pre-Veil while Morrigan was still with us.   What did she say?

Huh? Yeah we did. The Chantry teaches that once there was just the Fade, and then the Maker pulled energy from the Fade and made the Real, then created the Veil to separate the two.

I forget when Morrigan mentioned it, but it might have been in Origins when discussing the Dark Ritual. I remember her saying something about how the old gods are ancient beings that existed even before the Veil's creation. I'll try to look it up later.

Mind you the Keep has changed the arrival of humans in Thedas to -3900, a thousand years before the raising of the Veil.   So I wonder who they worshipped then?

Probably the old gods. Possibly the Avvar garbage. Or maybe some other things that are now long dead and forgotten.

Even if that date is a typo and it should still read -3100 (as found in WoT) the timeline in the Keep confirms that the elves lost their immortality in -2850, so humans were definitely around before the raising of the Veil.

Not sure if you know my theory on this, but I don't think the elvhen lost their agelessness because the Veil was brought into existence. I think Solas' explanation is probably right in a sense, but I think he merely closed gaps in the Veil, cutting off the elvhen kingdoms from the Fade. This is what ended their agelessness. But I think the Veil existed long before that, like when the Real first came into being.

The humans simply existed in parts of the Real world where the Veil existed, while the elvhen existed in parts where the Fade and the Real met. Then Solas closed those gaps when he discovered the energy that makes up the Veil. Thus he mistakenly believes that he created the entire thing.

Also checking the timeline in the Keep, it confirms that the kingdom of Tevinter was formed in -1700, the same time as Neromenian, Qarinus and Barindur.    The latter is not mentioned in the Keep but it was destroyed in -1600 and priests of Razikale had receive portents of doom that caused them to send people to investigate, so Tevinter was already worshipping Razikale then.

Yeah, well the humans were probably worshiping the old gods long before that. The Chantry states that there was a point in which the Maker turn away from the world because the old gods turned people away from him. So he imprisoned them underground in the Real, and then left the Golden City.

So maybe it was after he left that the evanuris showed up.

It would be funny if the wars that were being fought by the evanuris were against the old gods. Then after the Maker imprisoned them and left, the evanuris took the credit for it thinking they succeeded in beating them.

Or maybe what the elvhen were afraid of waking in the deeps were the old gods.

The Keep confirms that blood magic was first practiced in -1595.   This was by Thalsian in Neromenian, so it would appear I am right and whatever benefits that Razikale initially gave to her priests, blood magic wasn't introduced to them by her.

Yeah. It's been stated that Dumat first taught bloodmagic. But it's also stated that the Forbidden Ones have taught bloodmagic as well, though they probably did this after Dumat did. Perhaps they copied it from Dumat.

[Akiza]

I forget when Morrigan mentioned it, but it might have been in Origins when discussing the Dark Ritual. I remember her saying something about how the old gods are ancient beings that existed even before the Veil's creation. I'll try to look it up later.
.

These dialogues don't exist Morrigan know nothing of the veil created by Solas.
In the chant it is never stated that the Maker created the veil but that he created a whole new mortal plane for mortals.