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[Gervaise]

I was re-reading the entry on Darinius and it states that back before he established the Imperium, the kingdom of Neromenian had only 3 patron gods, Dumat, Toth and Luscan.    Razikale was definitely always the patron goddess of Tevinter, in particular Minrathous.   That leaves Zazikel, Andoral and Urthemiel to be shared between Tevinter and the old kingdom of Qarinus.   Or do you suppose that Razikale was the only patron of Tevinter until the Imperium came into being?

 

This got me to wondering.   Dumat is credited with teaching Thalsian blood magic.    Chantry propaganda has always been that all the old gods were associated with blood magic but it is possible that was not the case.  (I ignore what is said in the Canticle of Silence because that may be pure political propaganda).  The other kingdoms may have adopted blood magic in order to keep up with the kingdom of Neromenian, but it is equally possible that, say, Razikale taught alternative forms of magic, at least in the early days.   

 

Final thought, Minrathous has never fallen to enemy armies, even the darkspawn, throughout its entire history.   Razikale has not yet been corrupted by the darkspawn (or at least not released).    Could it be that even though Razikale stopped speaking to her faithful priests, the magic they used in her name still protects the city and will continue to do so until Razikale falls?

[Dai Grepher]

Is this more World of Thedas junk? Those volumes were total mistakes.

 

Anyway, no. I don't think it has anything to do with Razikale's magic or advice. Urthemiel wouldn't have been corrupted when he was had it not been for the Architect. So that was not a natural blight. Razikale's corruption is probably many years away, as the darkspawn that were digging toward Urthemiel are now going to have to dig in a different direction.

 

I also think all the old gods were present before the Veil's creation, as Morrigan suggests.

[Gervaise]

Clarification please on that bit about Morrigan.   We didn't know there had been a pre-Veil while Morrigan was still with us.   What did she say?

 

Mind you the Keep has changed the arrival of humans in Thedas to -3900, a thousand years before the raising of the Veil.   So I wonder who they worshipped then?    Even if that date is a typo and it should still read -3100 (as found in WoT) the timeline in the Keep confirms that the elves lost their immortality in -2850, so humans were definitely around before the raising of the Veil.

 

Also checking the timeline in the Keep, it confirms that the kingdom of Tevinter was formed in -1700, the same time as Neromenian, Qarinus and Barindur.    The latter is not mentioned in the Keep but it was destroyed in -1600 and priests of Razikale had receive portents of doom that caused them to send people to investigate, so Tevinter was already worshipping Razikale then.

 

The Keep confirms that blood magic was first practiced in -1595.   This was by Thalsian in Neromenian, so it would appear I am right and whatever benefits that Razikale initially gave to her priests, blood magic wasn't introduced to them by her.

[Dai Grepher]

Clarification please on that bit about Morrigan.   We didn't know there had been a pre-Veil while Morrigan was still with us.   What did she say?

Huh? Yeah we did. The Chantry teaches that once there was just the Fade, and then the Maker pulled energy from the Fade and made the Real, then created the Veil to separate the two.

I forget when Morrigan mentioned it, but it might have been in Origins when discussing the Dark Ritual. I remember her saying something about how the old gods are ancient beings that existed even before the Veil's creation. I'll try to look it up later.

Mind you the Keep has changed the arrival of humans in Thedas to -3900, a thousand years before the raising of the Veil.   So I wonder who they worshipped then?

Probably the old gods. Possibly the Avvar garbage. Or maybe some other things that are now long dead and forgotten.

Even if that date is a typo and it should still read -3100 (as found in WoT) the timeline in the Keep confirms that the elves lost their immortality in -2850, so humans were definitely around before the raising of the Veil.

Not sure if you know my theory on this, but I don't think the elvhen lost their agelessness because the Veil was brought into existence. I think Solas' explanation is probably right in a sense, but I think he merely closed gaps in the Veil, cutting off the elvhen kingdoms from the Fade. This is what ended their agelessness. But I think the Veil existed long before that, like when the Real first came into being.

The humans simply existed in parts of the Real world where the Veil existed, while the elvhen existed in parts where the Fade and the Real met. Then Solas closed those gaps when he discovered the energy that makes up the Veil. Thus he mistakenly believes that he created the entire thing.

Also checking the timeline in the Keep, it confirms that the kingdom of Tevinter was formed in -1700, the same time as Neromenian, Qarinus and Barindur.    The latter is not mentioned in the Keep but it was destroyed in -1600 and priests of Razikale had receive portents of doom that caused them to send people to investigate, so Tevinter was already worshipping Razikale then.

Yeah, well the humans were probably worshiping the old gods long before that. The Chantry states that there was a point in which the Maker turn away from the world because the old gods turned people away from him. So he imprisoned them underground in the Real, and then left the Golden City.

So maybe it was after he left that the evanuris showed up.

It would be funny if the wars that were being fought by the evanuris were against the old gods. Then after the Maker imprisoned them and left, the evanuris took the credit for it thinking they succeeded in beating them.

Or maybe what the elvhen were afraid of waking in the deeps were the old gods.

The Keep confirms that blood magic was first practiced in -1595.   This was by Thalsian in Neromenian, so it would appear I am right and whatever benefits that Razikale initially gave to her priests, blood magic wasn't introduced to them by her.

Yeah. It's been stated that Dumat first taught bloodmagic. But it's also stated that the Forbidden Ones have taught bloodmagic as well, though they probably did this after Dumat did. Perhaps they copied it from Dumat.

[Akiza]

I forget when Morrigan mentioned it, but it might have been in Origins when discussing the Dark Ritual. I remember her saying something about how the old gods are ancient beings that existed even before the Veil's creation. I'll try to look it up later.
.

These dialogues don't exist Morrigan know nothing of the veil created by Solas.
In the chant it is never stated that the Maker created the veil but that he created a whole new mortal plane for mortals.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

A topic about dinosaurs i'm interested.

In my opinion Andhoral is the most pure and good old god.

-He is the old god of Unity and that means he bring people together.

-He is the old god of chains and chains(bonds) link people togheter.

-He is the old god of slaves (this title is sadly misinterpreted by most) not of slavery which means that he is a comfort for all the slaves of the world.

 

The true criminal was Gharael who killed him.

[Gervaise]

No, I think it is more likely that Garahel released him from his corrupted flesh.   The Grey Wardens only think that it destroys the soul.   If you look back at what happens with Hakkon, the spirit is released back into the Fade where it can reform.   The Grey Wardens don't know everything and most of it was just guesswork.      

 

Alternatively I have a theory that the archdemon is only the split soul of the old god, whose other half is still imprisoned somewhere in the Fade, whether as a Creator or a Forgotten One.     The reason Flemeth is trying to gather the souls to herself is that this will weaken her enemies when finally released, whereas if the Warden kills the archdemon, it is able to return and reunite with its other half, thus making it stronger.   This is why Solas is beside himself about the Grey Wardens killing the last two archdemons because it will make his future task that much harder.    He certainly knows something about the archdemons and the Blight that contradicts what we have previously been told. 

 

I also think that Andoral was originally the god of unity and he was only reinterpreted as the god of slavery in the Chantry era, because of the chains.   Of course if people are unified in a cause or group, it can seem as though they are chained to it.

 

A similar thing seems to have happened with Zazikel, who was the goddess of freedom, that is later changed to god of chaos.   Again, if you have total freedom from laws then it can seem like chaos.

 

It is interesting in a way that these two gods could be seen as the opposites of one another: freedom vs. slavery; unity vs. chaos.

[Dai Grepher]

But Hakkon was not soul-cancelled. The Archdemons were. Although, what happened to Hakkon might be what happens if an old god is slain without being corrupted by the taint.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

But Hakkon was not soul-cancelled. The Archdemons were. Although, what happened to Hakkon might be what happens if an old god is slain without being corrupted by the taint.

Hakkon was rumored to be equal in nature to Dumat.

 

I don't know where the archdemons souls go when they are absorbed by a GW or where a GW soul go when Corypheus or archdemons enter in their bodies or what happen to the soul of a mage when it become an abomination there is no lore for that.

[Gervaise]

Grey Wardens only think the soul has been cancelled by the Ultimate Sacrifice.   They don't know for sure what exactly happens; simply that both the archdemon and the Grey Warden involved die.   How do they know for sure that the spirit/soul of the dragon god doesn't simply return to the Fade after passing through the Warden?   The death of the Warden could simply be from the shock of the spirit passing through their body or the wave of energy from the passing of the archdemon.

 

Back during the 1st Blight there were several occasions where Dumat was killed but not by a Warden and then the Wardens observed him resurrect into another darkspawn body.  They then had the theory that if the Warden struck the killing blow, may be the soul would jump to them.   In the final battle with Dumat, the archdemon was slain and didn't jump to the nearest darkspawn.   However, all the Wardens engaged in that battle were killed, so there is no way of telling who actually struck the blow and whether that is actually what stopped him soul jumping.  For example, if someone had done a dark ritual before the battle, the soul could have gone elsewhere and no one would be any the wiser since there were no suspicious survivors, as there were after the 5th Blight.

 

So from what I can gather, the Wardens had a theory that seemed to work and thus they assumed it worked in the way they had reasoned it would.   Unless someone with expertise on the destination of souls/spirits after death was able to confirm categorically that the Old God spirit hadn't returned to the Fade, how would you know for certain?   

 

I certainly wouldn't go by anything that Morrigan said since she had a vested interesting in making you believe that what Riorden said was true.   She may even have believed it herself, since Flemeth was the one who told her and may have concealed things from Morrigan.    Morrigan can be awfully cocky about what she knows but it has been proven several times that she doesn't know as much as she thinks she does.

[German Soldier]

The OGB plot line prove that souls can't merge(they are not merged they are two souls into one body)so i doubt that souls can destroy with each other if that was the case the DR would have killed the soul of the child and he don't die even when Flemeth remove a soul,Flemeth herself had 3 souls.

I doubt that in a US souls can be destroyed because it does not make much sense to have two different mechanics for the same elements(souls) in the same universe and with the same laws unless these writers want to follow some twisted logic in order to favourite the ritual.

[German Soldier]

The death of the Warden could simply be from the shock of the spirit passing through their body or the wave of energy from the passing of the archdemon.

hey assumed it worked in the way they had reasoned it would. Unless someone with expertise on the destination of souls/spirits after death was able to confirm categorically that the Old God spirit hadn't returned to the Fade, how would you know for certain?

You have to accept that this is not mathematic and that there is no law or any logic in DA.So you have soul cancellation into an adult but somehow you have soul preservation into a child because the writers said so,You have Archdemons killed by the US but Corypheus immune to it because reasons...you have Solas that turn people into stone and froze their souls inside the body ,or Mythal that can create a body of flesh from an amulet...
The original plot was less contrived where there was no US but just a magical weapon to kill archdemons.

[Gervaise]

Really?  I didn't know that.  Where did you learn about the original plot?  

 

The ultimate sacrifice made enough sense in DAO.   I got that an adult would offer some sort of resistance but the child would not.    The whole business started to unravel in later games, what with Flemeth and her amulet and then Corypheus jumping to Grey Wardens but them not dying.    I still don't get why in DA2 when he jumped it was just his soul and the person looked the same but in DAI he jumps and immediately splits them open and emerges like an archdemon does a darkspawn.  What made it even odder is that I thought that Warden was already dead.

 

Or why, as you say, Flemeth can remove the soul from Kieran and he doesn't immediately die or why Corypheus could still jump to Wardens when his soul was split with his dragon but when his dragon is killed and his soul returns to him, he can somehow be killed and not jump to a Warden  (since Morrigan maintains there is no limit to his range).   Then Mythal passes to Solas, having put something else into the eluvian before that happened.

 

However, with all these things having happened, it does make me doubt whether anything powerful remains dead in Thedas.   Which is why, if it turns out the Old Gods are loitering somewhere in the Fade, just waiting to return, I won't be at all surprised.

[Kantr]

Is this more World of Thedas junk? Those volumes were total mistakes.

 

Anyway, no. I don't think it has anything to do with Razikale's magic or advice. Urthemiel wouldn't have been corrupted when he was had it not been for the Architect. So that was not a natural blight. Razikale's corruption is probably many years away, as the darkspawn that were digging toward Urthemiel are now going to have to dig in a different direction.

 

I also think all the old gods were present before the Veil's creation, as Morrigan suggests.

why do you say that?

 

Really?  I didn't know that.  Where did you learn about the original plot?  

 

The ultimate sacrifice made enough sense in DAO.   I got that an adult would offer some sort of resistance but the child would not.    The whole business started to unravel in later games, what with Flemeth and her amulet and then Corypheus jumping to Grey Wardens but them not dying.    I still don't get why in DA2 when he jumped it was just his soul and the person looked the same but in DAI he jumps and immediately splits them open and emerges like an archdemon does a darkspawn.  What made it even odder is that I thought that Warden was already dead.

 

Or why, as you say, Flemeth can remove the soul from Kieran and he doesn't immediately die or why Corypheus could still jump to Wardens when his soul was split with his dragon but when his dragon is killed and his soul returns to him, he can somehow be killed and not jump to a Warden  (since Morrigan maintains there is no limit to his range).   Then Mythal passes to Solas, having put something else into the eluvian before that happened.

 

However, with all these things having happened, it does make me doubt whether anything powerful remains dead in Thedas.   Which is why, if it turns out the Old Gods are loitering somewhere in the Fade, just waiting to return, I won't be at all surprised.

Because in DA2 he knows he was beat and if he revealed his hand by changing the body then he could have been fully killed.

[German Soldier]

Really?  I didn't know that.  Where did you learn about the original plot?  

 

From old posts of Gaider here in Bsn

 

The Original plot of DAO was about a secret sword that was necessary to dispel the soul of the archdemons while the US and the DR were a later addition used to overwrite the original concept and in fact they created plenty of plot holes.

 

The writers did not bother to reassess the story of DAO accordingly,that's why you have things like Duncan not telling the US to Alistair in 6th months of time or the stupid of Riordan who never mentioned his plan of US to you at Eamon Estate all because the US was not a concept yet in those stages of the game,it became a concept from the Landsmeet on.

[Dai Grepher]

These dialogues don't exist Morrigan know nothing of the veil created by Solas.
In the chant it is never stated that the Maker created the veil but that he created a whole new mortal plane for mortals.

Sorry, it wasn't Morrigan. It was Yavana, and it was regarding dragons in general, but most likely she was referring to the Great Dragons, which the old gods are.

"Your heart beats with the old blood, as well. Where do you think it comes from? It sings of a time when dragons ruled the skies. A time before the Veil, before the mysteries were forgotten. Can you hear it?"

As for the Chant, I will have to look through it again. Perhaps the idea that the Maker created the Veil is stated in separate codices.

Grey Wardens only think the soul has been cancelled by the Ultimate Sacrifice.   They don't know for sure what exactly happens; simply that both the archdemon and the Grey Warden involved die.   How do they know for sure that the spirit/soul of the dragon god doesn't simply return to the Fade after passing through the Warden?   The death of the Warden could simply be from the shock of the spirit passing through their body or the wave of energy from the passing of the archdemon.

That may be why they believe in soul cancellation, but the Dark Ritual proves that the old god soul flowing through the Warden and the explosion are not enough to kill a Warden. Based on that evidence, it is indeed the soul of the old god clashing with the Warden's.

It is a logical conclusion. The soul of the old god would not go to the Fade. It would go to another darkspawn. The only way that transfer is stopped is if the soul is destroyed. The Dark Ritual merely redirects the transfer to a different target.

Back during the 1st Blight there were several occasions where Dumat was killed but not by a Warden and then the Wardens observed him resurrect into another darkspawn body.  They then had the theory that if the Warden struck the killing blow, may be the soul would jump to them.   In the final battle with Dumat, the archdemon was slain and didn't jump to the nearest darkspawn.   However, all the Wardens engaged in that battle were killed, so there is no way of telling who actually struck the blow and whether that is actually what stopped him soul jumping.

Sure it is. He resurrected before, but now with their new strategy he didn't. Therefore it must have been the strategy that worked.

For example, if someone had done a dark ritual before the battle, the soul could have gone elsewhere and no one would be any the wiser since there were no suspicious survivors, as there were after the 5th Blight.

But this wasn't the only blight. There were three more after that in which the Wardens observed a single Warden striking the final blow. This is the reason why Riordan is able to discuss it with you. Also, the Dark Ritual couldn't have been created until after first observing that a Grey Warden could destroy an archdemon, since a Grey Warden is one of the ritual's "ingredients".

So from what I can gather, the Wardens had a theory that seemed to work and thus they assumed it worked in the way they had reasoned it would.   Unless someone with expertise on the destination of souls/spirits after death was able to confirm categorically that the Old God spirit hadn't returned to the Fade, how would you know for certain?

They probably did have people who searched the Fade for the souls of the old gods and the fallen Warden who delivered the final blow, just to verify. They did it after Corypheus.

I certainly wouldn't go by anything that Morrigan said since she had a vested interesting in making you believe that what Riorden said was true.   She may even have believed it herself, since Flemeth was the one who told her and may have concealed things from Morrigan.    Morrigan can be awfully cocky about what she knows but it has been proven several times that she doesn't know as much as she thinks she does.

All Morrigan said on that issue was that the Grey Warden who strikes the final blow dies, and she was correct about that.

The OGB plot line prove that souls can't merge(they are not merged they are two souls into one body)so i doubt that souls can destroy with each other if that was the case the DR would have killed the soul of the child and he don't die even when Flemeth remove a soul,Flemeth herself had 3 souls.

It works differently in different cases. Sometimes it produces a twisted abomination. Sometimes a normal looking abomination. Sometimes one that can turn from human to demon form and back again. Sometimes the abomination remains human. And in the case of the archdemon the souls clash and obliterate each other.

The closest comparison is the twisted abomination, I believe. In this case the mage fights the demon possessing him or her, but loses, and this results in a twisted version where neither the mage or the demon exist as they once were. The difference with a Grey Warden and an archdemon is that the Warden has mastered the method the archdemon uses for possession. So it is an even conflict with no way out except for the two souls to destroy each other. In the case of a darkspawn, the archdemon simply takes over the empty shell without an resistance.

I doubt that in a US souls can be destroyed because it does not make much sense to have two different mechanics for the same elements(souls) in the same universe and with the same laws unless these writers want to follow some twisted logic in order to favourite the ritual.

But there are different circumstances involved. So of course they can be different.

[Dai Grepher]

why do you say that?

Because WoT's stories contradict established game facts.

[Illegitimus]

Because WoT's stories contradict established game facts.

 

So do established game facts.  

[Gervaise]

I can help you out over the Chant of Light and the Veil:

 

Erudition 2:  The first of the Maker's children watched across the Veil.  And grew jealous of the life, they could not feel, could not touch.  In blackest envy were the demons born.  

 

Threnodies 1: We dreamed up false gods, great demons who could cross the Veil into the waking world.

 

Both of these go with the creation story that says the Maker created the Fade and spirits, had second thoughts and only then created the Waking World, which was the realm of men and which spirits could not enter on their own because of the Veil.   Thus they grew jealous of the world and the life they could not have.    This makes sense after Solas put the Veil into place but not before.   Ergo either the Maker neglected to inform Andraste about thousands of years of his creation when mortals and spirits got on just fine and could pass to and from the Fade and Waking World with no problem, or something is missing (was removed) from the Chant, or the Maker isn't who he says he is.  

 

There is also another interesting entry in the Chant, Threnodies 8:

"Violently they were cast down, for no mortal may walk bodily in the realm of dreams."    

This is very odd because we walked in the realm of dreams just fine with our companions in DAI, when we ought to have been coughed straight back out again and suffered terrible consequences for having gone there.

[Ieldra]

There is also another interesting entry in the Chant, Threnodies 8:
"Violently they were cast down, for no mortal may walk bodily in the realm of dreams."    
This is very odd because we walked in the realm of dreams just fine with our companions in DAI, when we ought to have been coughed straight back out again and suffered terrible consequences for having gone there.

Why is that weird? It's a religious account, you can't expect historical accuracy here. "They were cast out because it is forbidden" is a typical example of a religious interpretation of facts, in this case of the fact "They came out of the Fade after having visited the City."

[Aren]

 

There is also another interesting entry in the Chant, Threnodies 8:

"Violently they were cast down, for no mortal may walk bodily in the realm of dreams."    

This is very odd because we walked in the realm of dreams just fine with our companions in DAI, when we ought to have been coughed straight back out again and suffered terrible consequences for having gone there.

 

 

You was  the wielder of the anchor which was created by a god that's why your companions don't die in the fade and can walk in it physically.

 

Each time a mortal entered physically in the realm of dreams an ancient being supposed "god" was involved

[Gervaise]

I am well aware that as a religious text it might not be entirely historically accurate.   However, it is meant to be the word of the Maker and what it is saying is that it is forbidden for mortals bodily to enter the Fade.   It also suggests that this is part of the reason that the Magisters were so badly affected by their sojourn there.   They committed a great sin, etc, etc.

 

This was what was strange about people's reaction to being in the Fade.   No one suggested they were upset at being there for religious reasons.   What no one seemed to latch on to, particularly  Cassandra, is that their faith teaches it is a great sin to be walking in the Fade.   In fact the Qun teach that entering the Fade in any fashion, even in your dreams, is strictly forbidden.   Bull seems more bothered about demons, although he doesn't really want to discuss why you should hit him with a big stick.   Bear in mind that the Chantry teaches the souls of the righteous pass through the Fade to the Maker's side and only the souls of the damned are left to wander there for eternity, you'd think Cassandra would have been more disturbed at the prospect that the figure greeting us could be Justinia.   What did that imply about her?   Alternatively, there should have been an instant assertion that it could only be a spirit imitating her.    There is a disconnect throughout DAI between what we are told that people believe and how they react to events.   It is constantly hand waved away with "you just need to believe".   Believe in what?

 

I'm also surprised my elf wasn't allowed to be more awed by the experience (or disappointed) because the Beyond is meant to be their holy place.  Not only that, but the Dalish believe that Fen'Harel stalks the Fade feasting upon the souls that pass through it.   With hindsight there could have been some great potential for irony there, since I took Solas with me.   My Lavellan should have been saying "Be careful, we may encounter Fen'Harel", and Solas could have responded, "I don't think you need have any worries about him".

 

As for the anchor, that was no explanation for why we could walk in the Fade since we already knew that it was not the gift of the Maker but had come from Corypheus.   He told us as much at Haven.   He might think he was a god but that was a false claim.    Solas told us it was of elven origin and that the orb (but not the anchor) was a foci of the elven gods.   However, a good Andrastrian wouldn't believe in the elven gods.   There is only the Maker and all other gods are false.    So whatever we are using is forbidden since it comes from a false god.  Ergo once again we are committing a great sin by being in the Fade at all.

[Secret Rare]

That may be why they believe in soul cancellation, but the Dark Ritual proves that the old god soul flowing through the Warden and the explosion are not enough to kill a Warden. Based on that evidence, it is indeed the soul of the old god clashing with the Warden's.

It is a logical conclusion. The soul of the old god would not go to the Fade..

There is no logical conclusion simply because you have no data about what souls are or which laws they follow.
Souls cancellation doesn't make sense because souls aren't a form of energy,this isn't an Electron -positron=annihilation.
You don't know what happen to souls in the fade if they go there they disappear so as the OP said a GW will may simply force the soul of the dragon to return in the fade then like every other soul they disappear in the fade.Also i would like to remind you that the so called darkspawns have a soul in fact they can reach the fade,so based on your logic an Archdemon should not be able to body jump at all,not only that even the DR shouldn't be able to work because you know two souls in one body why they don't clash?

[Secret Rare]

I am well aware that as a religious text it might not be entirely historically accurate. However, it is meant to be the word of the Maker and what it is saying is that it is forbidden for mortals bodily to enter the Fade. It also suggests that this is part of the reason that the Magisters were so badly affected by their sojourn there. They committed a great sin, etc, etc.

This was what was strange about people's reaction to being in the Fade. No one suggested they were upset at being there for religious reasons. What no one seemed to latch on to, particularly Cassandra, is that their faith teaches it is a great sin to be walking in the Fade. In fact the Qun teach that entering the Fade in any fashion, even in your dreams, is strictly forbidden. Bull seems more bothered about demons, although he doesn't really want to discuss why you should hit him with a big stick. Bear in mind that the Chantry teaches the souls of the righteous pass through the Fade to the Maker's side and only the souls of the damned are left to wander there for eternity, you'd think Cassandra would have been more disturbed at the prospect that the figure greeting us could be Justinia. What did that imply about her? Alternatively, there should have been an instant assertion that it could only be a spirit imitating her. There is a disconnect throughout DAI between what we are told that people believe and how they react to events. It is constantly hand waved away with "you just need to believe". Believe in what?

I'm also surprised my elf wasn't allowed to be more awed by the experience (or disappointed) because the Beyond is meant to be their holy place. Not only that, but the Dalish believe that Fen'Harel stalks the Fade feasting upon the souls that pass through it. With hindsight there could have been some great potential for irony there, since I took Solas with me. My Lavellan should have been saying "Be careful, we may encounter Fen'Harel", and Solas could have responded, "I don't think you need have any worries about him".

As for the anchor, that was no explanation for why we could walk in the Fade since we already knew that it was not the gift of the Maker but had come from Corypheus. He told us as much at Haven. He might think he was a god but that was a false claim. Solas told us it was of elven origin and that the orb (but not the anchor) was a foci of the elven gods. However, a good Andrastrian wouldn't believe in the elven gods. There is only the Maker and all other gods are false. So whatever we are using is forbidden since it comes from a false god. Ergo once again we are committing a great sin by being in the Fade at all.

Where the Maker said that is a sin to enter in the fade?Everyone is forced to go in the fade when they sleep,it's like saying that drink water is a sin.
You know nothing about the Maker yet you pretend to know something about him based on those codex in the game.

[Gervaise]

It is a great sin to walk bodily in the Fade.   There is nothing wrong with going there in your dreams.   The Maker intended for people to do that.   They are just not meant to walk there in reality.   At least that is what the Chant says.    I'm not saying that is actually what is true, or what the Maker decreed or anything like that because the Chantry is only one religion's explanation for reality, that is becoming increasingly suspect as more revelations are made.

 

What I am pointing to is what individuals within the setting are meant to believe about certain things.   Their beliefs may not be accurate in terms of what actually is reality but when something occurs that conflicts with their belief, they ought to acknowledge it.   So when the holy text of the Chantry says: "Violently they were cast down, for no mortal may walk bodily in the realm of dreams", a devout Andrastrian ought to be disturbed that they are doing something prohibited by their god and also by the implications when it turns out that nothing bad happens to them as a result of doing that prohibited act.  

 

Mind you, no one seems greatly disturbed from a religious standpoint when you starting going forwards and backwards in time.   They simply go, oh that's useful, now we know what our enemy is planning.  

 

What I keep trying to point out is the difference between what actually happens and how people ought to be reacting considering their faith.   This would not be a problem if faith had not been made such a big issue in DAI.    You are actually being promoted as a religious icon.     You are the Herald of Andraste.    Then it turns out you are not but that doesn't seem to bother people enough, particularly if you have been agreeing that it was all true and you are the Maker's chosen.    The only people who ever seem to state anything strongly are Sera, when she insists an elven lover denounce their faith if the relationship is going to continue and Solas if he does not approve of the Inquisitor, particularly if they have embraced the Herald of Andraste title.     Both of these are things you may never see.