15 réponses à ce sujet

[HeartOfRage]

Hey guys,

 

i love the energy barrage spell, but i'm not sure about the upgrades....

 

 

Energy Bombardment: How long does it last? Is it really worth and does it work?

 

Energy Storm: I dont notice more damage so whats it about?!

 

 

[PapaCharlie9]

Personally, I put off doing the upgrade until I have skill points I don't have any other good use for. Like I won't buy it until I'm like level 24 or higher.
 
Energy Bombardment: it's only a small buff, and only applies to enemies with non-zero resistance to the element of the staff. So say you have a fire staff and you are attacking a Rage Demon, which has fire resistance. Each hit of a "magic missile" from EB will reduce the resistance by -2%. So when the last of the 12 magic missiles hits the Rage Demon, it's fire resistance will be reduced by 24%. That does apply to all incoming damage, not just yours, for the duration.

If you are hitting a target that doesn't have a matching resistance, you won't see any extra damage.

Energy Storm: a modest buff (though I'm unsure if it is 100% bonus total or 100% on top of 66% for 166% total), but not all of the magic missiles hit the same target. This isn't so bad if you have exactly 2 or 3 targets, but if you have more than that in range, you're total damage is diluted too much IMO. And if you only have one target, some of the magic missiles fly off into space and don't hit at all! Kind of a debuff in that case.

[Bigdawg13]

Personally, I put off doing the upgrade until I have skill points I don't have any other good use for. Like I won't buy it until I'm like level 24 or higher.
 
Energy Bombardment: it's only a small buff, and only applies to enemies with non-zero resistance to the element of the staff. So say you have a fire staff and you are attacking a Rage Demon, which has fire resistance. Each hit of a "magic missile" from EB will reduce the resistance by -2%. So when the last of the 12 magic missiles hits the Rage Demon, it's fire resistance will be reduced by 24%. That does apply to all incoming damage, not just yours, for the duration.

If you are hitting a target that doesn't have a matching resistance, you won't see any extra damage.

Energy Storm: a modest buff (though I'm unsure if it is 100% bonus total or 100% on top of 66% for 166% total), but not all of the magic missiles hit the same target. This isn't so bad if you have exactly 2 or 3 targets, but if you have more than that in range, you're total damage is diluted too much IMO. And if you only have one target, some of the magic missiles fly off into space and don't hit at all! Kind of a debuff in that case.

 

I used to never upgrade it until I finally tested out Energy Storm.  Starflorge had been advocating this upgrade in a big way so I finally tried it out.

 

On a single target, about "roughly" half of the bolts hit a single target when you only have a single target to hit.  That's a equates to losing 200% damage overall.  But when you have many targets, Energy Storm does better damage.  Consider that 12 targets in the area, and you will do 1200% damage (400% MORE damage than the baseline).  And each one acts as an eldritch detonator!!!!  That means you have an AoE Eldritch detonator that can hit 12 targets that don't have to be in a small area.  Compare to Immolate or dispel and the effective area to detonate targets with Energy Storm is massive!  Energy Storm can hit them all around you, or far from you, and detonate combos! 

 

So basically, I keep it upgraded to Energy Storm for everything but dragons.  It is a little less damage on a single target when you run into that single promoted enemy, but by far and large there are always 3+ enemies you have to deal with and Energy Storm is quite impressive dealing 50% more damage most of the time.  That makes it very worth while.

 

But I would make sure to get my 8 skills first, and there are a few key passives for any build that are more important than Energy Storm.

[HannahRose]

Everything that BigDawg said, except for the part about switching to Bombardment for dragons (unless you need the elemental debuff from bombardment). I've seen as many as 8 missiles hit large targets if you're close enough, and the max could be even higher. Honestly that upgrade is so much more potent than most people give it credit for, and I would grab it asap for mid - melee range mage builds. Hell, I'd probably even grab it late(ish) game on ranged ones.

[actionhero112]

Targeting on storm is a toss up I've had as little as 2 missiles before. I would argue that it generally only hits 6 times or lower. Heavily recommend never taking this upgrade. 

 

The point, imo, of Energy Barrage is reliable single target damage and masterwork activating, diluting that through Energy Storm just defeats the purpose of the skill. 

 

Remember, because none of the bullets have actual aoe, the spell actually loses efficiency as more enemies cluster, as spells like fade step, fire mine, immolate and hell even static cage increase in efficiency. There is just better spells you can spend your mana on rather than the wonky Energy Barrage with energy storm.

 

Though it appears reading the other posts that your mileage on Energy Storm might vary. Some people seem to like it. 

[HeartOfRage]

I just tested energy storm and it's really amazing.

Equipped with Blade of Tidarion 24 missiles fly and damage all enemies,

and as knight enchanter when standing in a dragon and casting it makes me happy

[PapaCharlie9]

But when you have many targets, Energy Storm does better damage.  Consider that 12 targets in the area, and you will do 1200% damage (400% MORE damage than the baseline).  And each one acts as an eldritch detonator!!!!  That means you have an AoE Eldritch detonator that can hit 12 targets that don't have to be in a small area.  Compare to Immolate or dispel and the effective area to detonate targets with Energy Storm is massive!  Energy Storm can hit them all around you, or far from you, and detonate combos!

 

Remember, because none of the bullets have actual aoe, the spell actually loses efficiency as more enemies cluster, as spells like fade step, fire mine, immolate and hell even static cage increase in efficiency.

Both of these statements can't be true, so what is the disconnect?

Or is this a matter of semantics?

Perhaps Bigdawg is talking about total damage output for an ability activation, and actionhero is talking about damage per target for an ability activation? That would allow both statements to be true.

Key to both is the average hit rate of Storm. If it's closer to 12, I think the effect Bigdawg talks about is the dominant one. If it is closer to 2, I think actionhero's effect is the dominant one.

[Bigdawg13]

 

Both of these statements can't be true, so what is the disconnect?

Or is this a matter of semantics?

Perhaps Bigdawg is talking about total damage output for an ability activation, and actionhero is talking about damage per target for an ability activation? That would allow both statements to be true.

Key to both is the average hit rate of Storm. If it's closer to 12, I think the effect Bigdawg talks about is the dominant one. If it is closer to 2, I think actionhero's effect is the dominant one.

 

I'll be honest...I didn't understand what Actionhero was saying when he said it loses efficiency.  Energy Storm doesn't need enemies grouped.  That was my point.  If you have enemies spread out and all under a trigger for a cross-class combo, Energy Storm will hit each one with an eldritch detonator.  Immolate, dispel, or whatever needs things grouped to be efficient.  But Energy Storm does not need things grouped. 

 

Furthermore, unless I'm horribly mistaken, having things grouped doesn't increase damage taken from a spell.  Like if two enemies stand together and get hit with immolate, each one takes the same damage they would take (individually) even if they were hit with immolate standing all alone.  But for immolate to be efficient, you want enemies grouped up.  Energy Storm takes that requirement and laughs at it.

 

Look, I really didn't think Energy Storm was very good before testing it out. I was pleasantly surprised.  Try out Starflorge's Infinite Mana Rift Mage build for a bit.  A lot of the bolts will hit a single target, if that's the only target in the area.  I was quite surprised and taken a back.  But a 50% damage increase in a spell is nothing to sneer at.  And the fact you can toggle it back (if you want) for a boss should really stop any arguments whatsoever.  It's the same argument with stonefist and it's upgrade.  On single-targets (where they have lots of guard) it's better to swap the toggle.  Well for a mage, you can pretty much leave Energy Barrage set to Energy Storm 90% of the time and do more damage.

[actionhero112]

On a single target, about "roughly" half of the bolts hit a single target when you only have a single target to hit.  That's a equates to losing 200% damage overall. 

 

 But when you have many targets, Energy Storm does better damage.  

 

 

 

Furthermore, unless I'm horribly mistaken, having things grouped doesn't increase damage taken from a spell.  

 

No but it increases the value of area of affect spells. If your argument is as it's presented above, that many targets increases the value of energy storm, then you have to admit that proportionally it increases the value of other spells, and in their case, in a much more drastic way. 

 

1200% modifier seems nice (even if you'll never actually get the full 1200 every time) but if you think about it, it's actually nothing to write home about. Even if I only used Immolate 4 times before Energy Barrage came off cooldown, I would match the DPS on a single target, let alone if there are multiples grouped. And when optimally played, you group enemies to begin with, whether through taunting melees or clustering ranged through grappling chain/PtoA. So spells that do aoe will almost always out dps spells that do not because you can hit multiple targets, turning a mediocre 300% modifier into effectively a 600% or 1200% spell. AoE spells are only limited by how many you can cluster in the AoE. 

 

Energy Storm will never be able to compete with that. The spell shouldn't try. Imo, it should keep its original purpose as a single target nuke, and masterwork activator. 

 

I'll be honest...I didn't understand what Actionhero was saying when he said it loses efficiency.  Energy Storm doesn't need enemies grouped.  That was my point.  If you have enemies spread out and all under a trigger for a cross-class combo, Energy Storm will hit each one with an eldritch detonator.  Immolate, dispel, or whatever needs things grouped to be efficient.  But Energy Storm does not need things grouped. 

 

 

In this game, there isn't a cross class primer that affects all enemies, so the point you're making about individual enemies all happening to be stunned, so far away from each other that you can't detonate them with dispel is moot, at least to me. Wrath of Heaven, Payback Strike, Knockout Bomb, all of these primers have a group aoe. Not to mention, the spell has travel time, while the others do not, which matters for detonating quick stuns, such as from stagger on being hit.  

 

And theres also always the chance that none of the bolts will hit any target primed anyways with Energy Storm. 

[Bigdawg13]

 

 

 

No but it increases the value of area of affect spells. If your argument is as it's presented above, that many targets increases the value of energy storm, then you have to admit that proportionally it increases the value of other spells, and in their case, in a much more drastic way. 

 

1200% modifier seems nice (even if you'll never actually get the full 1200 every time) but if you think about it, it's actually nothing to write home about. Even if I only used Immolate 4 times before Energy Barrage came off cooldown, I would match the DPS on a single target, let alone if there are multiples grouped. And when optimally played, you group enemies to begin with, whether through taunting melees or clustering ranged through grappling chain/PtoA. So spells that do aoe will almost always out dps spells that do not because you can hit multiple targets, turning a mediocre 300% modifier into effectively a 600% or 1200% spell. AoE spells are only limited by how many you can cluster in the AoE. 

 

Energy Storm will never be able to compete with that. The spell shouldn't try. Imo, it should keep its original purpose as a single target nuke, and masterwork activator. 

 

 

In this game, there isn't a cross class primer that affects all enemies, so the point you're making about individual enemies all happening to be stunned, so far away from each other that you can't detonate them with dispel is moot, at least to me. Wrath of Heaven, Payback Strike, Knockout Bomb, all of these primers have a group aoe. Not to mention, the spell has travel time, while the others do not, which matters for detonating quick stuns, such as from stagger on being hit.  

 

And theres also always the chance that none of the bolts will hit any target primed anyways with Energy Storm. 

 

 

We agree, that having enemies grouped up increases the value of area-of-effect spells.  But the opposite is true.  Having them spread out increases the value of non-area-of-effect spells.  And Energy Storm has 12 chances to proc masterworks unlike immolate.   Seriously...comparing immolate to energy barrage?  Or even energy storm is just ... there are no words for it. 

 

Let's not forget we can swap out the energy damage type (fire/lightning,frost) of Energy Barrage/Storm.  I still argue that Energy Storm is better than Energy Barrage for anything other than a boss fight.  Being able to hit all my enemies, no matter where they are, how they are grouped, on a short cooldown is just insane. 

 

You want to argue the merits of Immolate over Energy Storm, feel free.   Immolate never even finds a spot on my bar...ever.  Fire resistance is the most common type of resistance.  And trials guarantees I have multiple enemies that cannot be knocked down or controlled...that do not stand in a nice little circle for me to spam Immolate on them.

 

And if I want single-target, I just have to toggle the upgrade.  It's that simple.  Big dragon coming up next...just swap that over.  Big groups in Descent, swap over to Energy Storm.  That utility, the ability to swap/adapt is something immolate poorly lacks.  And even if Energy Barrage did 1/2 the damage it did, I'd still take it over Immolate due to being able to proc my masterworks 12 times. 

 

As for setting up combos across the field of battle.  It happens...all the time.  For me anyways.  My rogues put things to sleep in the background.  They stay that way for a time.  Warriors using War Horn stun, or Wrath of Heaven.  Not all grouped up...etc etc.  Even a basic combo because I used veil strike on shocked mobs put them to sleep.  Now I have half a dozen enemies asleep over the entire battlefield.  BAM...Energy Storm.  

[HannahRose]

I just tested energy storm and it's really amazing.

Equipped with Blade of Tidarion 24 missiles fly and damage all enemies,

and as knight enchanter when standing in a dragon and casting it makes me happy

 

I was going to come back and mention the BoT damage bug, but it looks like you've already discovered that bit of wonderfulness on your own. So I'll just say have fun! haha

[HeartOfRage]

And the best thing is, energy barrage perfectly fits with elemental belts.

So i have all 3 belts in inventory and always equip one that fits with my staves element,

to double energy barrage damage.

[Dabrikishaw]

And here I thought Energy Storm was garbage. Very interesting discovery all.

[wicked cool]

Blafe of tidariion work the same way for other mage types meaning if a rift mage im getting same benefit?

[PapaCharlie9]

Blafe of tidariion work the same way for other mage types meaning if a rift mage im getting same benefit?

Yes, I believe so, though haven't tried it myself.

[HannahRose]

Blafe of tidariion work the same way for other mage types meaning if a rift mage im getting same benefit?

 

Yes, it works for any class, although I'd advise only using it on your Inquisitor and/or Vivienne, since Solas and Dorian may have trouble surviving in melee range.