84 réponses à ce sujet

[JPVNG]

ask your self..why star trek official site has done the exact same thing some years ago? 

[capn233]

Heh, title reminds me of something like this:
 

[Filament]

OP is right.

[TheJiveDJ]

 The reason they believe they can have "better dialogue" with the fan base through outlets like Facebook, is because the goal is to have no dialogue.

 

Couldn't agree more. This was the first thought that entered my mind when they referred to Facebook and Reddit; it was good for a laugh. Facebook is as effective for meaningful dialogue as a Youtube comment section. That is to say, not effective at all.

[TheJiveDJ]

In my head, this is pretty much the current conversation between Bioware and the fandom;

 

Fandom: When you say the forums are "obsolete"... you really mean "toxic", don't you?

Bioware: We didn't say that...

Fandom: But you've certainly implied  it enough times. That's why the BSN is being shut down and not the TOR forums.

Bioware: Even if that was  true... you have to agree, when was the last time you heard anything  toxic from TOR?

Fandom: When was the last time you heard anyone playing  TOR?

 

(Okay, if I have to be honest, I do actually play and enjoy TOR immensely... but the overall point still stands, why are their forums still open?)

I've played TOR as well. TOR players are constantly pissed about pretty much every change that happens, especially after the most recent large changes that have occurred. Not sure how that forum is any less "toxic" than this one.

[Killdren88]

I've played TOR as well. TOR players are constantly pissed about pretty much every change that happens, especially after the most recent large changes that have occurred. Not sure how that forum is any less "toxic" than this one.

It's a MMO. It comes with the territory. Look at the WoW forums. That place is a breeding ground for negativity any changes and people are claiming that it's the end of WoW. Negative asses come with the MMO genre.

[serenai]

I've played TOR and been a paying member off and on since it released. I've seen many lovely posts there, but you're right - the negativity is enough to turn off the most optimistic person in the world. I do not go there anymore. I do come here.. these forums are nowhere near that bad.

 

What I find almost funny is that we're being told to go to Twitter, Facebook, and Tumblr.. when those places are so far up the chain of incivility, hostility, hate, and vitriol that they leave the BSN in the dust. 

 

I was writing an article on my site about this mess and was trying to tone it down a bit since I didn't want to sound too pissed, but now I'm getting riled up again.. lol.. dammit BioWare! Sifting through 10 other places' bs is better than sifting it in one? One where the posts are not even a tenth as bad as the 10? It's like they're deliberately shooting themselves in the foot, only they missed and hit the groin instead.

 

*sigh*

[Ryuzetsu]

To the OP: Please take your conspiracy theories and your apparent need to pointlessly drag Anita Sarkeesian into a "discussion" (I use that term loosely for your post) of the shutdown of a forum that has nothing to do with Anita Sarkeesian (or feminist issues in general), etc., and go flush them down the nearest toilet ASAP.
 
For the umpteenth time, it really is due to the toxicity of the forums that these forums are being shut down - your post being yet another a case in point. It's all the threads like this one that keep providing more and more evidence as to why the forums are being shut down in the first place. Also, OP, please learn to insert some freaking blank lines between your paragraphs.

As for my "pointless need" to bring Anita Sarkeesian into this discussion, the reason she was brought in is because she sits on the Twitter Trust and Safety Coucil as its head. I used her as a point of reference to represent people who wish deny people their either God given or Constitutionally given right to freedom speech and expression. The fact that she is part of that body is not a "conspiracy theory", it's a damn fact. Now I know people who have delicate eggshell like psyches have a hard time taking facts but that is something they are going to have to get over, and pretty soon might I add.
It's easy to label something "toxic" because it doesn't fit the narrative, but truth is often neither kind nor cuddly soft. And I will continue to drag anyone as example into an open forum for debate,(which is what this is and neither Twitter or Facebook are not) as much as I damn well please. I will "drag" anyone who attempts to circumvent my constitutionally protected right to free speech into any discussion, because Its legal, because if they were attempt it in real life, unfortunately it's still illegal "drag" them into oncoming traffic. Have a great day!

[The Dank Warden]

Lizard people is to blame for this mess, Those goddamn salarians...

[Reorte]

Last forum shutdown I've witnessed was mainly due to the forum being way too toxic, negative, and general nonsense bring posted.

There was some good stuff, but it was buried underneath a huge pile of steaming toxic waste.

"Toxic" is a word generally only used by people unable to cope with others not loving everything they do and having the gall to actually say so. There's nothing any more fundamentally wrong with being negative than with being positive.

[Diablo4evr]

That Bioware might be interesting in filtering fan feedback is one of the most common theories around in the wake of the closure announcement. I'm not sure why you think this is a revelation that you alone have considered. 

 

That's what I thought when I first read this... This topic comes up again and again in other places... I've been saying it myself for a while now... 

[darkway1]

I've bought,played all of Biowares games and I like them all but there's no denying that EA/Bioware have made more than a few decisions that have hurt their own franchises.

 

It's the speed of which the forums are being closed I think hints at the real reason of forum closure .I think Bioware knows that Andromeda is going to generate a negative response from some of it's fans,so they are killing the forum and removing the community soapbox before Andromeda gets the big reveal.

 

Negativity surrounding a game will hurt sales and it's sad to think a company is willing to destroy a it's own forum legacy just to maximise the sales of a game,at the end of the day,shutting down the Bioware forums is pretty ridiculous......even Call of Duty has it's own forums.  

[Ryuzetsu]

Heh, title reminds me of something like this:
 

Well done, very funny!

[JamieCOTC]

I have sincere doubts that what OP speculates was the driving intent for closing the forums, but the amalgamation of the fandom will be a byproduct nonetheless. Also, Twitter isn't what it used to be and I've seen some toxicity (though on a smaller level) on Facebook too. My guess is that it was a combination of things, the negativity, keeping it up, that lead to the decision including what was stated. Still it is a shame and although the intent may not have been there, it does feel like a slap in the face.

[MrBSN2017]

Illuminati

[serenai]

As for my "pointless need" to bring Anita Sarkeesian into this discussion, the reason she was brought in is because she sits on the Twitter Trust and Safety Coucil as its head. I used her as a point of reference to represent people who wish deny people their either God given or Constitutionally given right to freedom speech and expression. The fact that she is part of that body is not a "conspiracy theory", it's a damn fact. Now I know people who have delicate eggshell like psyches have a hard time taking facts but that is something they are going to have to get over, and pretty soon might I add.
It's easy to label something "toxic" because it doesn't fit the narrative, but truth is often neither kind nor cuddly soft. And I will continue to drag anyone as example into an open forum for debate,(which is what this is and neither Twitter or Facebook are not) as much as I damn well please. I will "drag" anyone who attempts to circumvent my constitutionally protected right to free speech into any discussion, because Its legal, because if they were attempt it in real life, unfortunately it's still illegal "drag" them into oncoming traffic. Have a great day!

 

Here is the fact that you keep missing: You do NOT have a "constitutionally protected right to free speech into any discussion." 

 

Your First Amendment rights do not apply in this forum, they do not apply at Twitter, they do not apply on any discussion board unless that board is hosted by the US Gov't and they'd still have the right to kick you off for trolling or breaking any of their rules.

 

These places do not want to censor people because it stifles discussion, but they have the ability - and moral AND legal grounds - to do so.

[serenai]

From this post on page 1, mrjack explained this better than I could:

 

One last time for anyone who still doesn't get it:

 

The right to free speech in a free society (The First Amendment in the U.S.) gives you the right to freely speak out against the government without the fear of recrimination by said government. It does not give you the legal right to say whatever you want, about whoever you want, in any space (physical or virtual) that you want with impunity (even in some cases by the government, see: hate speech legislation).

 

Private citizens and organizations that maintain private spaces for discussion (even if the discussion is open to all) are under no obligation to allow you to speak your mind free of restrictions. If you someone wants to shut you up and it's within their power to do so, then they have every right to. It's up to the individual in charge of that forum who decides if, when and how to censor you and I'm glad for that.

 

 

 

More information from a question asked at Quora, specifically about a game forum even:

 

In the United States this right is found in the First Amendment to the Constitution:

 

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

 

 

What that tells us, and what some people do not get, is that "America's right to free speech" is protection against government censorship. That's all.

 

Private organizations, such as newspapers, magazines, and websites may make their own rules about what they will publish or permit.

 

Private individuals may tell you to shut up if you are annoying them while exercising free speech.

 

 

BioWare is not the government; they are a private entity. As such, they can tell you to shut up, they can delete your posts or your entire account if they so please. We are allowed to speak here, but only within the rules they lay out. If a poster does not agree with the rules that person can go elsewhere, and if they break them then BioWare, or Twitter, or any other forum or discussion board owner/admin, are entirely within all rights and law to shut the poster down.

 

My favorite on the subject is from xkcd.

 

More reading: http://www.firstamen...stions-assembly

 

 

 

Edited for omg font size whackery

Edited to add more info

[Ryuzetsu]

Sadly, you miss one exception to your argument, government contractors are susceptible to the rights guaranteed by the constitution, which both Twitter and Facebook are. And as paid employees of the government must abide by all its laws. Also I would refer you to the 2, 1, 10, 2 amendment loop as to why I have the right to say what I wish. You may not have been aware of this, in that case I forgive you. Not everybody is privy to that knowledge. Have a great day!

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

People are going to act out wherever they have an outlet. Shutting down this place will just drive the disgruntled to other places newbies might go for information like Metacritic, Amazon reviews, etc.

But I'm sure Bioware has considered these things and finds the risk acceptable.

The question of how the forum affects the devs' mental health is a real consideration. I remember after DA2 how negative everyone was about Alistair's appearance ("beaten with the ugly stick" was one of the kinder comments) and Gaider got on the forum to say that the young dev who had worked very hard on Alistair was in tears all day, so could we please cut it out. (Of course, we didn't.) Alistair had a tiny part in the game, so I'm sure they thought it was a nice little project for the new kid that wouldn't matter too much in the grand scheme of things. But with the amount of passion people have for Alistair around here and the echo chamber effect the real disappointment fans felt got magnified ten thousand fold and then entered the culture, so it's still brought up in posts about Alistair.

This was a relatively small thing. Multiply that by a billion for the ME3 ending. Even though the ending was the work of a few people the entire team has been tarred and feathered by association.

One problem I see is that we don't let things go. It's like we're the person who will never stop bringing up that our significant other cheated on us that one time. Even people who have gotten over the ending of ME3 or never had a problem with it to begin with keep mentioning the controversy and it probably feels to the devs that we're rubbing salt in the old wound. Like the cheater who has supposedly been forgiven, they want us to drop it or stop dating them. And since they can't tell us to drop it without everyone flying off the handle, they are breaking up with us.

There is blame to go around. "We are listening" was not a good response, nor was threatening devs. We needed something like the "Truth and Reconciliation" of post-Apartheid South Africa where everyone could speak honestly about how the situation affected them and then hopefully let it go and start over. But it's way too late for that now.

So, Bioware, as weird and pretentious as it sounds, I'm sorry and I forgive you. I'm going to play Andomeda and I will try to enjoy or dislike it on its own merits.

Not that I disagree with tour points but it seems ironic that people criticize us fans for not letting go of the ending controversy an yet apparently neither has BioWare. If the bsn is so toxic why isn't there much more toxicity around the closure news?

As bad as I feel about the Alistair dev, it's also ironic that the people complaining about toxic bsn are often the same ones claiming that fans only complain about the looks of female characters.

[The Dovahk]

You're not a hardcore fan if you get salty over losing these terrible forums.

[Spectr61]

Their forum.

You have no "rights" here unless given by the private owner.

They can censor, ban, restrict, or moderate as they see fit.

Or, sadly, shut the the entire thing down..

[Filament]

The right to free speech and the principle of free speech are two different things. While it's true that a company like BioWare or Twitter or Facebook have the right to censor whatever opinions they want on their platforms (unless such platforms are deemed 'public utilities' in the future), that isn't necessarily in alignment with the principle of free speech. The question is whether that principle is more important than individuals' right to freedom of association or a company's freedom to manage their brand.

[rossler]

I will "drag" anyone who attempts to circumvent my constitutionally protected right to free speech into any discussion, because Its legal, because if they were attempt it in real life, unfortunately it's still illegal "drag" them into oncoming traffic. Have a great day!

This is Bioware's house, so you have to play by their rules.

Just like in mine if I have a rule to take off your shoes after entering my place. If you refuse, I will gladly throw you out.

I don't care if it violates anyone's personal freedoms or rights they think they have. Those rules get thrown out when you enter someone else's home.

[The Dovahk]

The devs spend more time on places like twitter and reddit than these forums, and these forums are just slowly draining their money.

Speculate all you want. In the end, that's all it is, speculation.

[Reorte]

The right to free speech and the principle of free speech are two different things. While it's true that a company like BioWare or Twitter or Facebook have the right to censor whatever opinions they want on their platforms (unless such platforms are deemed 'public utilities' in the future), that isn't necessarily in alignment with the principle of free speech. The question is whether that principle is more important than individuals' right to freedom of association or a company's freedom to manage their brand.

The rights and principles of free speech don't mean that you have to be given a soapbox, and that if someone does give you one they are entirely free to take it away from you. Removing a soapbox is not gagging or censorship or anything like that. You're still entirely free to say whatever you want about BioWare and their games (within whatever libel laws are appropriate wherever you are), even if the BioWare-provided soapbox is gone.