66 réponses à ce sujet

[Fexelea]

I don't understand why our jurisdiction is an issue to you. Hong Kong has a strong privacy ordinance and arbitration laws, and is the reason it was chosen for incorporation, as opposed to the US that has no privacy ordinances (your info is free game in the US) or seen as an arbitration jurisdiction.

 

Either way, It is not possible for me to select to skip only your posts during the import. There is no guarantee your posts will be copied either. If you don't know if the posts are there, how do I know it?

 

Regarding the URL - that is the exact process you would have to legally go through x a DMCA. I told you it was a nightmarish process, and I am making it as simple as possible for you by removing the need to prove your identity.

 

The simple way to remove content is to remove it here or actually to have an associated account that is later on flagged for deletion with any associated posts. If you don't want to associate an account, then you have to tell me the URLs because I have no way to find them amongst so many other posts.

[Melbella]

If I can create an account to be flagged for deletion once all the importing is done, that seems like a much simpler solution to the issue. It just would have been nice to have this information upfront before any importing was done. You seem the type of person who tells people what they need to know, so it's unfortunate that this part of it was missed.

[Fexelea]

To be honest that seemed really obvious to me, as opposed to the more complex matter of claiming + associating for postcount that is, as you see from the other thread, confusing a lot of people even with the explanations provided. 

[AngryFrozenWater]

The Wayback Machine is archiving the internet since 1996. In 2015 it has archived 252 billion web pages. Send them an e-mail to request the deletion of the messages on the archived sites you have posted on. I wonder what their answer will be.

[Melbella]

That's not quite the same thing. If I write a book, I'm not going to be upset if a copy of it is sitting in a library somewhere, but I will be upset if someone takes my book and claims it as their own (or implies I let them claim it as such).

[LPPrince]

That's not quite the same thing. If I write a book, I'm not going to be upset if a copy of it is sitting in a library somewhere, but I will be upset if someone takes my book and claims it as their own (or implies I let them claim it as such).

 

 

Thats not a fair comparison. A better one would be that you wrote a book, all copies of it are gonna be burnt in a huge inferno, but someone is saving a copy of your work so it lives on, which you don't want/didn't ask for.

[Fexelea]

Nobody is claiming your work as their own, since you didn't submit content, so how would that apply? I think a lack of understanding of legalesse is getting on the way here.

 

Regarding the saved content, the wayback machine copyright policy is exactly, word-for-word, same as ours, down to the fact they require you provide them with the urls of the content (and want your real name, signature, etc).

 

As I said, I'm making this as easy as it could ever be for people who want to remove their content.

[Melbella]

Thats not a fair comparison. A better one would be that you wrote a book, all copies of it are gonna be burnt in a huge inferno, but someone is saving a copy of your work so it lives on, which you don't want/didn't ask for.

That's not quite accurate either, since I am perfectly capable of saving what I want of my own content, and have done so.
 
 

Nobody is claiming your work as their own, since you didn't submit content, so how would that apply? I think a lack of understanding of legalesse is getting on the way here.
 
Regarding the saved content, the wayback machine copyright policy is exactly, word-for-word, same as ours, down to the fact they require you provide them with the urls of the content (and want your real name, signature, etc).
 
As I said, I'm making this as easy as it could ever be for people who want to remove their content.

No, I did not, and that's the problem, because my content *here* is now *there* so it looks like I did. If what you were creating was an archive, it would be a different situation, but it's a live forum, a continuation, for better or for worse, of this one once everything is ported.

But I think I'm done with this argument since it appears to be pointless. I do have a few more questions on the mechanics, however:

1. What's the deadline for creating an account for syncing?

2. If I delete the account once everything is synced, will that automatically delete everything associated with it or does the post deletion have to be done manually?

3. If manual deletion is required, would I do that or would you?

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

[Fexelea]

The live forum without an associated account is read-only, and posts have no associated account, this is exactly the same as wayback machine, and legally qualifies as an archive. The only difference is that other people can continue to post in the same forums with their post history validated.

 

The deadline for accounts is whatever access we have here for identity confirmation. After this closes, if anyone wants to claim copyright of content, they will have to either find a way to prove their identity in this forum, or submit a copyright claim with all that involves.

 

You can claim your account now with specific deletion wishes for the import, and it will be done once all the import is done without you having to do anything. There are technical limitations to this, specifically that I cannot guarantee content will be imported or that synchronization will work.

[jakenou]

Sure please send me the urls.

they're all listed on my profile

[Fexelea]

I need the urls of imported posts. Or claim an account and flag it for deletion, as discussed above.

[jakenou]

this is honestly ridiculous that people need to do all this work and jump through hoops to *not* have their content copied over imo. you said you would delete specific content if asked, so i asked you to delete any of my content.... specifically. now i have to take steps, 2, 3, 4 or 5 for it to happen. i've batch deleted forum content before, and if you set up a transfer process with the right tagging and parameters for the new database, it shouldn't be so difficult. you seem to be making it very easy for people to have their accounts and history preserved, but making it very difficult for people to have it NOT happen at all.

 

if you're talking about claiming an account as mentioned in the other 'claim your account' thread, then could you please edit the OP in that thread to give very clear explicit instructions describing exactly, step by step, what people need to do to have you flag both our accounts and all our content to be deleted? then tell people of the amendment, it would be VERY helpful. i'm very much not pleased with the prospect at having to create a new account, to claim another account, just so i can have that account and all associated content deleted. 

[Fexelea]

You can just PM me after claiming an account. It really isn't that difficult nor is there a need for any specific instructions. There's no guarantee any of your content will be preserver or associated, so until that is done there is nothing else to be done. Whatever scraped you ran before, good for you, this is not how this one works.

 

I am sorry that creating an archive that is effectively for the benefit of thousands is such an inconvenience for you. I imagine you will have to do this very same thing for all the other places that are making archives? I suggest you being by making this claims to Wayback Machine as well, although there you'll have to submit each url and a DMCA notice with all your private information. Enjoy.

[jakenou]

there's no need to be passive aggressive and condescending. and i really do not want to create another account at Fextralife, as i don't i simply don't wish to create another account for this purpose, and i have no reason to trust the site, nor yours, with anything i've contributed here. it's unfortunate that so many assumptions were made and not a lot of choices in the matter.

 

and if there's a place where i know my content has been moved to, yes - i do try and do something about it (just as i am doing now), but as you've also pointed out, it's incredibly difficult, and honestly i think it's a shame. just because all these various sources do things like this, does not mean it's ok for everyone else to do it.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Fexelea, Cyonan and everyone else involved in all this, I just wanted to thank you both for answering the OP and clarifying some things.  We're lucky to have so many dedicated people making life boats for us.

[Servo to the bitter end]

there's no need to be passive aggressive and condescending. and i really do not want to create another account at Fextralife, as i don't i simply don't wish to create another account for this purpose, and i have no reason to trust the site, nor yours, with anything i've contributed here. it's unfortunate that so many assumptions were made and not a lot of choices in the matter.

 

and if there's a place where i know my content has been moved to, yes - i do try and do something about it (just as i am doing now), but as you've also pointed out, it's incredibly difficult, and honestly i think it's a shame. just because all these various sources do things like this, does not mean it's ok for everyone else to do it.

 

Just here to second the notion that this is bigger than any one poster. Needs of the many, and all that.

 

[/bentham]

 

The closure of the BSN is still the worst idea that Bioware has ever had, and any small part of it that can be conserved should be - and if Fextralife succeeds in saving a LARGE part of it, then all the better. I don't think you can really characterize the requirements to delete your content as overly demanding. As far as I'm concerned, Fexelea is doing the lord's work.

[ESTAQ99]

I knew that at some point, very close to BSN death, someone would find a way to steer unnecessary trouble regarding old posts being saved.

 

A final effort to have their last 15 min of fame.

 

Obnoxious 'till the very end. 

[SmilesJA]

Just ignore the people giving you a hard time Felexia. They're not worth it, thanks again for saving our posts! Keep it up!

[jakenou]

it's not surprising, but still disappointing, that people want to take a different point of view as some sort of scheme to look for fame and/or intentionally make trouble. i have concerns, things that i think are important and therefore legitimate (to me at least), and not an unnecessary effort to see what options there are, and this place seems to be the spot for a so-called civil discussion about it. sure, i'm one individual, but the laws of probability would suggest that if one person feels this way, there's probably at least a few more out there. the thousands versus the one doesn't seem to be a fair assessment. i stopped visiting these forums with any frequency over the past couple of years, but i stumbled by here sort of to see what the ado was about tbf closing, and when i saw some of these things, it gave me pause. i might assume that there are "thousands" of others, perhaps similar to me, who don't really come to tbf very often, have no idea what is happening, and maybe if given the choice or knew about it, would feel uncomfortable with how their data/content is handled by another user. i would think that many of you here are adamant posters, and are a prevailing voice because of that. anyway, ignoring differing opinions isn't a great life practice... in my opinion. sometimes it can be pretty enlightening to find that other views, dramatically different from your own, exist out there. you don't have to agree of course, but diminishing assumptions are a bit mean.

[mrs_anomaly]

Wow everyone needs to take a chill pill. Jakenou doesn't want their stuff to be recorded on any new sites. Why is this even an issue? I totally support all the people creating new lifeboats for these forums and recognize they are putting in a lot of personal work to save our society here but there are always going to be a group of people concerned about their privacy. Being concerned about your content/posts and privacy is a normal reaction. 

 

Just because half the forum is asleep/AFK/left the forums long ago doesn't mean there aren't a portion of people within that group that might be the "pls don't move my content forward". 

 

While I personally have no issues with my posts etc. I think it's not hard to respect another viewpoint about this without getting our panties in a bunch. 

 

Some people do not want their info moved forward. 

Others do. 

 

The work everyone is doing for this is commendable but it isn't rude to want to not be included. 

[DomeWing333]

it's not surprising, but still disappointing, that people want to take a different point of view as some sort of scheme to look for fame and/or intentionally make trouble. i have concerns, things that i think are important and therefore legitimate (to me at least), and not an unnecessary effort to see what options there are, and this place seems to be the spot for a so-called civil discussion about it. sure, i'm one individual, but the laws of probability would suggest that if one person feels this way, there's probably at least a few more out there. the thousands versus the one doesn't seem to be a fair assessment. i stopped visiting these forums with any frequency over the past couple of years, but i stumbled by here sort of to see what the ado was about tbf closing, and when i saw some of these things, it gave me pause. i might assume that there are "thousands" of others, perhaps similar to me, who don't really come to tbf very often, have no idea what is happening, and maybe if given the choice or knew about it, would feel uncomfortable with how their data/content is handled by another user. i would think that many of you here are adamant posters, and are a prevailing voice because of that. anyway, ignoring differing opinions isn't a great life practice... in my opinion. sometimes it can be pretty enlightening to find that other views, dramatically different from your own, exist out there. you don't have to agree of course, but diminishing assumptions are a bit mean.

You may not be intentionally making trouble, but you are taking a very nice thing that someone is doing for the community--at the cost of her own time and money--and making huge fuss over it out of an inexplicable paranoia over what is essentially someone taking a screenshot of the BioWare forums.

Then, when that person offers you a solution to this rare and inconsequential complaint of yours--something which she has no obligation to do--you claim that she's making you jump through hoops and request that she do even more.

You see how people might see that as frustrating on her behalf?

[PapaCharlie9]

Regarding the ownership question, I thought some excerpts from the EA/Bioware TOS for comparison would be helpful.

TL;DR - EA says you own your UGC (User Generated Content) from the point of view of liability -- that is, if you post something illegal, only you are accountable, not EA. In every other respect, EA has every right of ownership, without calling it ownership. Including, but not limited to: "remove, block, edit, move or disable UGC for any reason." Furthermore, you grant to EA and its licensors pretty much all of the useful rights with respect to your UGC, including, but not limited to, "distribute", "adapt", "modify" and "create derivative works".

The point being, the TOS roles are very similar between the two services, except that who has which role appears to be reversed. For EA, you own the UGC but you grant the good rights to EA. For Fextralife, Fextralife is the owner but grants the good rights to you.

I don't see much of a difference to users between the two approaches, in practical day-to-day terms, but perhaps I'm missing something?

This raises an interesting question for Fexelea: Since Fextralife takes ownership for protection reasons, does that also mean Fextralife takes ownership for liability? Like if a user posts something that is considered illegal in some jurisdiction, is Fextralife accountable, or the user?

Excerpts:

 
 

2. Content

"Content" on EA Services includes software, technology, text, forum posts, chat posts, profiles, widgets, messages, links, emails, music, sound, graphics, pictures, video, code, and all audio visual or other material appearing on or emanating to and/or from EA Services, as well as the design and appearance of our websites. Content includes user-generated Content ("UGC"). UGC includes but is not limited to Account personas, forum posts, profile content and any other Content contributed by users to EA Services. EA Content and UGC collectively shall be referred to as "Content." All Content--with the exception of UGC discussed below in Section 6 and 7--is owned by EA or its affiliates, subsidiaries, licensors or suppliers. You bear the entire risk of the completeness, accuracy and/or usefulness of UGC found on EA Services.

6. Contributing UGC to EA Services

EA does not pre-screen all UGC and does not endorse or approve any UGC that you and other users may contribute to EA Services. You are solely responsible for your UGC and may be held liable for UGC that you post.

EA respects the intellectual property rights of others. You must have the legal right to upload UGC to EA Services. You may not upload or post any UGC on EA Services that infringes the copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights of a third party nor may you upload UGC that violates the law, this Terms of Service and/or any third party's right of privacy or right of publicity. You may upload only UGC that you are permitted to upload by the owner or by law. EA may, without prior notice to you and in its sole judgment, remove UGC that may infringe the intellectual property or other rights of a third party. If you are a repeat infringer of EA's or a third party's intellectual property or other rights, EA may terminate your Account without notice to you. If your Account(s) is/are terminated under this paragraph, you are not entitled to a refund for any fees you have paid, and you will lose access to Entitlements associated with your Account.

EA reserves the right (but has no obligation except as required by law) to remove, block, edit, move or disable UGC for any reason, including when EA determines that UGC violates these terms. The decision to remove UGC or other Content at any time is in EA's sole and final discretion. To the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, EA does not assume any responsibility or liability for UGC or for removal of, UGC or any failure to or delay in removing, UGC or other Content.

7. UGC License Grant to EA and Others

When you contribute UGC to an EA Service, you expressly grant to EA and its licensors a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide, complete, sub-licensable and irrevocable right to quote, re-post, publish, use, adapt, translate, archive, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, syndicate, license, print, sublicense, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the UGC, or any portion thereof, in any manner or form and in any medium or forum, whether now known or hereafter devised, without notice, payment or attribution of any kind to you or any third party. You grant EA and its licensors all licenses, consents and clearances to enable EA and its licensors to use such UGC for such purposes. You waive and agree not to assert any moral or similar rights you may have in such UGC.

If the EA Service on which you contribute UGC permits other users to access and use that UGC as part of the EA Service, then you also grant all other users of the relevant EA Service the right to use, copy, modify, display, perform, create derivative works from, and otherwise communicate and distribute your UGC on or through the relevant EA Service without further notice, attribution or compensation to you.

[Filament]

Eh I don't blame people for being paranoid as far as signing up to a stranger's web site goes.

But Fex seems to be doing this on the level.

And I don't see the problem with simply letting them back up "your" information and not creating an account to associate it with. You didn't have a problem putting all this information into the public domain in the first place, but now that it's going to another public domain effectively as a guest post with your old screen name, you get mad?

[mrs_anomaly]

You may not be intentionally making trouble, but you are taking a very nice thing that someone is doing for the community--at the cost of her own time and money--and making huge fuss over it out of an inexplicable paranoia over what is essentially someone taking a screenshot of the BioWare forums.

Then, when that person offers you a solution to this rare and inconsequential complaint of yours--something which she has no obligation to do--you claim that she's making you jump through hoops and request that she do even more.

You see how people might see that as frustrating on her behalf?

Fex volunteered to do this no one forced her to do it- she isn't a martyr. 

 

Presumably if I wanted my content to die with this site- I wouldn't have to do much- I'm not an expert at this stuff so that would probably be a common assumption. If I'm in the position to want my info gone forever off of here- and I find out someone is making efforts to scrape up everything including my stuff what is the nicest, non confrontational, non fussy way to ask this?

 

According to everyone else it means that if hypothetically I am against my information being moved forward I need to STFU and GTFO because my concern is "consequential" and "rare". 

 

Minimizing the opinions of those that, very simply, do not want their information moved forward does nothing but stir the pot. 

 

Like I said I am not an expert, but I don't see why amending the save your account post with a "Hey if you don't want your info moved shoot me a PM" or assigning another person to that duty is so hard. 

 

It's like you all cannot understand anyone having a different opinion lol. Or that if someone posts on here- maybe they just want to walk away forever- but you all are kind of saying "oh too bad suck it up". 

 

In all of the posts in this thread I haven't seen anything that Jakenou posted that was rude or trying to make trouble. 

 

If it were not for the effort of Fex and others this problem wouldn't exist- (no I'm not suggesting this effort and campaign is wrong- I laud it personally and am appreciative of it) but it does so I do believe they should hold themselves responsible for having a standard operating procedure to deal with the instances of someone who wants to opt out. 

 

It is the ethical thing to do. There is nothing untoward about saying "I want my information to be deleted". It is not wrong, it is not rude, it is not disrespectful of Fex and others trying to recreate all the data off this site- it's a very normal human concern. 

[Servo to the bitter end]

It is the ethical thing to do. There is nothing untoward about saying "I want my information to be deleted". It is not wrong, it is not rude, it is not disrespectful of Fex and others trying to recreate all the data off this site- it's a very normal human concern. 

 

She gave a very straightforward answer on how one might have their information deleted.