59 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

So, this  might be the final post I create on here, but let's go out with a discussion.

 

As you knows know, recently we have not seen much from Mass Effect: Andromeda, which has fueled wild speculation to the point that many believe BioWare is being shut down, which I don't believe is the case.

 

Another game was just released, one that I am personally enjoying called No Man's Sky. The thing is, a lot of people are a bit upset with it, not just due to the awkward PC release, but due to the lack of "promised features" in the game.

 

A recent reddit post has went through a lot of what Murray has stated in interviews and videos over the past two years, most of which point to a lot of changes in the games development.  Some of this I can personally say is misleading based on what I have played, but other promises are simply not in the game.

 

Perhaps some of it was changed so it can meet a deadline by Sony, or perhaps they lied, that's not what this is about. What this is about is how the hype and what was said has begun to poison the release of No Man's Sky, and it's now biting them back in the butt.

 

Why do I bring this up? Well, many of us have complained about the lack of information by BioWare, and many of us have said it's not a big deal. For me, the recent hubbub over No Man's Sky is pretty loud here, and I think it just gives credence to my own personal opinions regarding hype and advertising- as I have said in the past, BioWare has been tampering expectations and managing the hype of the game by showing less as much as possible. They want to avoid the growing pains No Man's Sky is going through. 

 

By tampering expectations they can control the hype and release, and essentially provide damage control for any negative reception they may get. So it will lessen that blow.

 

To me, the lack of "gameplay trailer" has been justified thus far, and the recent release of No Man's Sky and the hype it generated has kind of proven that point. But that is me. What are your thoughts? 

[Cyonan]

Inquisition had a similar case, although much smaller than No Man's Sky, where people complained that content from previous E3 videos weren't in the game.

 

I suspect that the Fallout 4 style of "Don't say anything until the game is basically done" is going to become more popular as people get outraged over content being cut during development.

 

I know people will say "Well just don't cut content" but the reality is that virtually every game has content which was removed during development. You just don't hear about it in most cases, but if developers kept at it until they got all of the content they originally wanted in their games most of them would go bankrupt because they'd never release anything.

 

The other side of this is that I think the majority of people would be okay with cut content provided that the content we did get was of a good quality.

 

Part of the problem with No Man's Sky is that many think the game we did get was incredibly underwhelming and mediocre at best, especially for a game with a AAA price tag attached to it.

 

In either case I make it a point to not get hyped up over anything and it's not like seeing a gameplay video today is going to make ME:A release any sooner, so I'm cool with waiting. The biggest thing getting an info dump on the game would do for me is actually having stuff to discuss on forums that isn't essentially just "what I'd like to see in ME:A".

[squidney2k1]

Eh, not really a good idea to compare it with the NMS hype drama--much of that was also flat out lies and misdirection by the development company.

 

That said, Bioware hasn't been much of a "vertical slice" footage developer since the days of the ME1 development footage, as we know how that turned out to bite them in the behind. They actually like to debut a game with a hefty amount of info, gameplay, footage, and usually a few presentations. Even though we would all like them to be further along than they are, it's better that they get closer to a finished product rather than a "playable" one to show off. It's better to talk about what it will have when the time comes, than to talk early about things that may never be in the game.

 

As for the hype train, I don't buy into it that much with most games, but seeing how this is my favorite game series, it's hard not to do so. Plus, this may be a new entry into the series, but it's not exactly a new IP, so the expectations tend to be much more grounded.

[Kierro Ren]

I really don't see what was lied about in No Man's Sky. They told us it'll have seamless planet landing, it does. No loading screen. It'll be strictly exploration, but with little space battles, but they aren't the main focus. Alien animals are random, even if some look similar, you can have only so many looks in a video game. They told you you'd have to find ways to translate the dominate alien faction's language, and you do. I guess people with cry about anything 

[Selene Moonsong]

@OP,

 

I get what you are saying and I'd like to think that BioWare is keeping mum on detail for those reasons. At least that would seem common sense to me, although it is difficult to remain quiet for very long stretches.

 

I am quite sure that they have plenty they would like to show and tell us with, and keeping a damper on it is a better way of suppressing the runaway expectations of fans speculating of what they have seen and heard.

[Cyonan]

I'll also note that on an individual basis, any BioWare employee is going to be under NDA to not give out any details about ME:A.

 

So when you see one of them on Twitter giving really vague updates like "Working on ME:A, it's gonna be amazing" that would be why. They likely would love to tell us all about the game, but they're contractually bound to not say anything.

[Red Panda]

I'll also note that on an individual basis, any BioWare employee is going to be under NDA to not give out any details about ME:A.

 

So when you see one of them on Twitter giving really vague updates like "Working on ME:A, it's gonna be amazing" that would be why. They likely would love to tell us all about the game, but they're contractually bound to not say anything.

Clearly that seems too rational. Surely, it's all a plot and Bioware has been replaced by amphibious mole lizard dinosaur things from Sol itself. Wake up Sheeple. Wear the tinfoil hats, wear the tinfoil hats!

 

NOTE: This is not a serious post.

[fdrty]

To the OP

 

Expectation will be HUGE either way. ME is one of gaming's biggest franchises and basically THE premier sci-fi RPG. Add to that people who want the wrongs of ME3's ending to be righted, and, yeah, if this one sucks the backlash will be thermonuclear.

 

However, Sean Murray made a crucial mistake. He became a liar.

 

That doesn't mean that he knowingly deceived people. He may have genuinely planned to implement many of the things that he said were going to be in the game but didn't make it.

 

But once he said 'X will be there' and it wasn't, then there's no way people won't see that as a lie, and therefore, there's no way that won't reflect on his character. He became a liar whether he lied or not.

 

EA could come out and say 'X will be in the game! Y will be in the game!' But that will inevitably be used to measure the game, rather than other, more reasonable measures of quality. By hyping the game, it becomes less about whether or not the game is good, and more about meeting an unrealistic expectation set by the myriad promises used to sell the game.

 

It is better to disappoint fans now by being coy than to disappoint them later when they have the disc in their hands. And, to the fans who are complaining about not enough info: grow up, be patient and eat your vegetables.

[squidney2k1]

I really don't see what was lied about in No Man's Sky. They told us it'll have seamless planet landing, it does. No loading screen. It'll be strictly exploration, but with little space battles, but they aren't the main focus. Alien animals are random, even if some look similar, you can have only so many looks in a video game. They told you you'd have to find ways to translate the dominate alien faction's language, and you do. I guess people with cry about anything 

 

 

Just one of the many examples. In fact, at E3 this year, they were still running with the old footage too, complete with the old style HUD. People will cry about anything, but also people will obviously mock legitimate outrage about anything...

[AlanC9]

Can someone remind me what Sean Murray actually lied about? I didn't follow the pre-release stuff too closely after determining that I had no faith in the basic concept of the game.

[LinksOcarina]

To the OP

 

Expectation will be HUGE either way. ME is one of gaming's biggest franchises and basically THE premier sci-fi RPG. Add to that people who want the wrongs of ME3's ending to be righted, and, yeah, if this one sucks the backlash will be thermonuclear.

 

However, Sean Murray made a crucial mistake. He became a liar.

 

That doesn't mean that he knowingly deceived people. He may have genuinely planned to implement many of the things that he said were going to be in the game but didn't make it.

 

But once he said 'X will be there' and it wasn't, then there's no way people won't see that as a lie, and therefore, there's no way that won't reflect on his character. He became a liar whether he lied or not.

 

EA could come out and say 'X will be in the game! Y will be in the game!' But that will inevitably be used to measure the game, rather than other, more reasonable measures of quality. By hyping the game, it becomes less about whether or not the game is good, and more about meeting an unrealistic expectation set by the myriad promises used to sell the game.

 

It is better to disappoint fans now by being coy than to disappoint them later when they have the disc in their hands. And, to the fans who are complaining about not enough info: grow up, be patient and eat your vegetables.

 

That is where the crux of it is. I really don't believe he lied to fans on purpose either, I do believe the hype is what is making those expectations unrealistic and the scrutinization of what Murray said is getting magnified ten times over. He probably had to cut stuff that he wanted and it becomes part of game development. Well never know I think on that one. 

 

But we did see that with Mass Effect 3 and Inquisition in some respects...it's becoming a pattern with the video game industry.

[Cyonan]

I really don't see what was lied about in No Man's Sky. They told us it'll have seamless planet landing, it does. No loading screen. It'll be strictly exploration, but with little space battles, but they aren't the main focus. Alien animals are random, even if some look similar, you can have only so many looks in a video game. They told you you'd have to find ways to translate the dominate alien faction's language, and you do. I guess people with cry about anything 

 

Looking through the Reddit thread the OP linked there is a number of features missing from the game that were mentioned pre-launch as being things the game would have. I know multiplayer has popped up a lot which the official stance was "You can see other players, but it's exceedingly rare to ever find one" but we have since discovered the game has no multiplayer at all. Players can't see each other or influence another player's environment.

 

Now I don't particularly care about the semantics of the term lying vs the intent of the statement at the time it was said. The only fact that really matters is this: The game we were told we were getting and the game we actually got were two fairly different games, and the final product was missing a lot of features Murray said was in the game and never told us were going to be removed.

 

For those who enjoy the game we did get and will try to wave criticisms based on "well I'm still enjoying it" that's great for you. I sincerely wish anybody who drops $60 USD on a video game gets their money's worth out of it and enjoys what they got, and all the more power to you if you did.

 

but the criticisms of the way this was handled still stands. I think that if you're going to advertise your game and talk about what kind of features are in it, it's your duty to your fanbase to inform them if a decision is made during development to significantly alter or remove those features.

 

Which is something the industry as a whole is really bad at. Sean Murray with No Man's Sky is just the most recent example of it on a large scale.

[slimgrin]

It's clear EA is taking the smart approach and withholding all info until the game is truly ready to show. They've obviously seen other publishers trip up majorly on this. NMS is the most recent, and imo probably the worst. But a lot of people saw Hello Game's BS a mile off, especially as we got closer to release and they still wouldn't really say just what the game was about. Sean Murray is basically next gen Molyneaux.  

[DanielCofour]

Can someone remind me what Sean Murray actually lied about? I didn't follow the pre-release stuff too closely after determining that I had no faith in the basic concept of the game.

 

Well, there's this thread on Reddit which contains basically all the misinformation prior to release. 

[DanielCofour]

It's clear EA is taking the smart approach and withholding all info until the game is truly ready to show. They've obviously seen other publishers trip up majorly on this. NMS is the most recent, and imo probably the worst. But a lot of people saw Hello Game's BS a mile off, especially as we got closer to release and they still wouldn't really say just what the game was about. Sean Murray is basically next gen Molyneaux.  

 

Well, it's not exactly clear that that's the case, since It's either that, or they don't have have anything significant to show (and given the fact that a lot of top creatives left the development, it's not exactly a far fetched idea). At this point, we can't really know. 

[Silvos]

The premise of the OP is a pretty absurd one. The developers of No Man's Sky made many grandiose claims of what their game would be, knowing full well those things could never actually be in the game because they weren't possible. It was clearly a case of creative dorks letting their fantasy take control of their reality, like what frequently happened to Peter Molyneux. Does that relate to marketing MEA? Not at all. Even if you connect it to the minor complaints players had about DAI and cut content it doesn't actually relate in any logical way. Content was cut and altered in DAI because they had to make the game work for last-gen consoles, not because they weren't capable of delivering on promises. The things they showed some audiences and later cut worked just fine, otherwise they wouldn't have been shown. And only a tiny minority of players even knew about those shakycam videos of cut content, so why exactly would BioWare be so thoroughly gun shy?

To relate any of this to the marketing of MEA is just nonsensical. People keep bending over backward to come up with excuses for BioWare instead of just saying nothing. "They're taking the Fallout approach to marketing, that's all." No they're not. They announced the game 3 years ago and have been building hype all this time so stop saying that. "They just don't want to get dinged for showing off content that might get cut." The game is mere months from release but they have nothing to show that isn't on shaky ground? No combat? No companions? No exploration? No dialog exchanges? Absolutely nothing? Stop making excuses. It's silly.

[Sanunes]

Hype is probably part of the reason, but I believe one element is being left out as well regarding the FCC complaint about "false advertising" about Mass Effect 3 and the investor lawsuit over Battlefront 4.  EA has been hurt by the NCAA lawsuit and both of those complaints could have turned out to be the exact same problem as well, so they could be limiting how much they are saying not to avoid hype, but to avoid large payouts due to the hype.  I believe it could also have had an impact on the forums closing to make any comments look even less official, but that is pure speculation on my part.

[Innocent Bystander]

I'll also note that on an individual basis, any BioWare employee is going to be under NDA to not give out any details about ME:A.
 
So when you see one of them on Twitter giving really vague updates like "Working on ME:A, it's gonna be amazing" that would be why. They likely would love to tell us all about the game, but they're contractually bound to not say anything.

The thing is, do we really need to be daily reminded that they are working on it? Tweet like that is the most useless thing since "How to speak French" was translated to French.

[Gileadan]

I understand the need to manage expectations and to avoid another backlash about missing "promised features" after release, but not even showing the most basic gameplay?

No segment about the protagonist running and shooting at a few enemies? Surely running and shooting won't be cut?

No segment about the mako exploring a planetary surface? They won't cut the Mako at this point, right?

It might be one of their knee-jerk overcompensations again, but still.

[Ruadh]

Interviewer: "So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?"

 

Casey Hudson: "Um... You know, at this point, I think we're co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback."

 

 

 

 

'Oh the times they are ah changing' 

[Laughing_Man]

A few things:
 
A. It is very tempting for video game developers to create hype by any means.
Even NMS, despite the controversy, seems to have sold much more than it would have without the hype.
 
As they say, there is no such thing as bad publicity. NMS is still at the top of Steam top sellers, which is more than impressive for an "indie" developer.
 
B. Considering the above, I find it very likely that NMS developers were content to pump smoke and vagueness into the air,
and let everyone hype themselves into insanity over whatever vague promise they interpreted as their favorite feature.
 
 
To summarize:
 
Buying a video game shouldn't be like buying a cat in a bag, the developer should be clear and open about the product before release.

Anything other than that is questionable at best, and a scam or false advertising at worst.
 
The biggest reason for the great disappointment from NMS is the secrecy and vague promises mentioned above.
 
To prevent that, all they had to do was to be more open about what the game actually was beforehand.
But that of course would have meant less hype, and consequently - less money.
 
As for ME:A - I don't care if they delay the release of information about the game. However, clear information about the game should be available before the game is released. EA like every other developer knows how to use hype to rake in money, but false hype inevitably leads to a backlash.
 
Like they say, everything has a price.
 

To me, the lack of "gameplay trailer" has been justified thus far, and the recent release of No Man's Sky and the hype it generated has kind of proven that point.

 

If anything, showing gameplay features is the last thing that can be blamed for creating false hype - unless you cut them out before the game.

The hype for NMS was not due to a gameplay trailer...

 

ME:A should have a stable gameplay system at this point, especially considering that they are probably using ME3 as a base.

Showing gameplay simply minimizes overblown expectations, and gives potential customers a picture of how the product should look like.

[vbibbi]

I agree with many of the responses here. It's probably smart of Bioware to cut down on hype since it can easily come back to bite them. But what is noticeable is that there wasn't even any footage of real gameplay released for E3 or anywhere else to date. They don't need to divulge lots of information about the game and what to expect to "prove" anything, but I would think they could release a two minute clip of gameplay with no context. That would show the graphics, what the combat/exploration/UI will look like without giving spoilers or promising some aspect of the game which could later be cut.

 

While it's a shame to see what was cut from alpha build of DAI, I don't hold Bioware accountable for dropping that content in order to release the game. What I don't like is that they didn't change their marketing after cutting the content, so they still advertised customizing captured keeps after that was cut. And one of my biggest gripes is when Laidlaw used Dorian's key role in IHW to "demonstrate" that taking different companions on quests will provide different question paths and outcomes. I don't think at any point in DAI's development was Dorian not going to be required for that quest, so I do consider that dishonest.

[SofaJockey]

Anyone who says:

 

"We want to do this .... (subject to change)"

 

will be deemed to have said:

 

"We will do this ...."

 

If things don't go to plan, and they often don't,

any variance will not be deemed as

 

'changes in plan'

 

they will be deemed as:

 

'lies'.

 

Since Crestwood and a host of other companies 'dumbing down' their games,

the silent approach, until it's 'mostly done', is the only sensible way.

[Sanunes]

Anyone who says:

 

"We want to do this .... (subject to change)"

 

will be deemed to have said:

 

"We will do this ...."

 

If things don't go to plan, and they often don't,

any variance will not be deemed as

 

'changes in plan'

 

they will be deemed as:

 

'lies'.

 

Since Crestwood and a host of other companies 'dumbing down' their games,

the silent approach, until it's 'mostly done', is the only sensible way.

 

I agree.  Even looking at the Crestwood video I see the "pre-alpha" tag on the bottom and the reasoning I saw for people still getting upset was that "we don't know what that means, but if they show content it should be in the final game".

[Sartoz]

                                                                                      <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

One thing Mtl. Bio has done, so far, is mute the hype. Yes, there are plenty of teaser about nothing, if you follow twit.

One good thing that Mike Laidlaw has done is he inoculated me from any future Bio marketing hype. To say I was disappointed in DA:I with its PC controls is an understatement.

 

Today, I take everything form Bio with several rocks of Sea Salt.