Aller au contenu

Photo

Make "Insanity" difficulty in ME:A actually challenging!


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
27 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 3 007 messages

First and foremost, goodbye BSN (even the trolls)! I just found out today that the forums are being shut down by BioWare. I guess its silence for months was really evidence that BioWare actually did just forget about its forum community.

 

On the topic at hand, is anyone else in favor of the hardest difficulty in MEA actually being a challenge?

 

I love ME1-3, but they are all incredibly easy games. Even on "insanity," there is no challenge and very little risk. It's even easier when you acquire certain weapons, such as the particle rifle.

 

I'm not asking for every encounter to be an instant head shot death. But, I shouldn't become too complacent while playing either. The best way to perhaps rectify this issue is smarter AI and perhaps even destructible cover to make playing a bit more dynamic and not as easy.

 

Any thoughts?


  • Fade9wayz aime ceci

#2
slimgrin

slimgrin
  • Members
  • 12 485 messages

I didn't find insane on ME1 or ME2 incredibly easy.


  • KaiserShep, Tex, Tatar Foras et 2 autres aiment ceci

#3
Cyonan

Cyonan
  • Members
  • 19 374 messages

Mass Effect 1 has a reverse difficulty curve, where the game starts off somewhat hard but gets considerably easier as you progress and unlock your overpowered abilities.

 

Mass Effect 2 is probably the hardest on insanity, but it also mostly comes down to the enemy just dealing insane amounts of damage. The end result is that I have to sit behind chest high walls regenerating barriers a lot more on insanity. Not exactly what I'd call difficult.

 

Mass Effect 3 I'm not convinced actually even has insanity difficulty. This goes double after having played MP for years.

 

Solo Mirror Match on the Citadel DLC with all penalties turned on was good fun, though.

 

In general I'd agree that I'd like ME:A to be a bit harder for insanity.


  • laudable11, Element Zero, Zarro Khai et 1 autre aiment ceci

#4
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 3 007 messages

Mass Effect 1 has a reverse difficulty curve, where the game starts off somewhat hard but gets considerably easier as you progress and unlock your overpowered abilities.

 

Mass Effect 2 is probably the hardest on insanity, but it also mostly comes down to the enemy just dealing insane amounts of damage. The end result is that I have to sit behind chest high walls regenerating barriers a lot more on insanity. Not exactly what I'd call difficult.

 

Mass Effect 3 I'm not convinced actually even has insanity difficulty. This goes double after having played MP for years.

 

Solo Mirror Match on the Citadel DLC with all penalties turned on was good fun, though.

 

In general I'd agree that I'd like ME:A to be a bit harder for insanity.

ME1's "difficulty" really has nothing to do with the enemies, themselves. It's because of how leveling and gear progression worked. The only difference from one difficulty setting to the next was enemies would have bigger health bars and will deal more damage. Once you maxed out your character and achieved the best SPECTRE armor in the game, insanity is nothing but a chore at that point.

 

That's really all ME2 was: wait behind cover for shields to regenerate and kill mobs. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if the process wasn't the same rinse and repeat over and over. I'd say Insanity on ME2 was more of a hassle than actually being difficult. I don't think I ever died in any of the games on Insanity honestly.

 

The only aspect of ME3's "insanity" that might have been somewhat of a challenge was in the final mission where you are waiting for the reaper to get in range so you can launch missiles at it. That was a horde/firefight setup similar to MP where waves of enemies get harder and you have to endure until the missiles are ready. Otherwise, ME3 wasn't memorable for any difficult components.

 

I jut want more of a challenge with MEA. The game doesn't need to punish me. But, I don't want it to be incredibly easy either.



#5
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 3 007 messages

I didn't find insane on ME1 or ME2 incredibly easy.

Either I'm a god at ME, you are not good at ME, or both.


  • Pearl (rip bioware) aime ceci

#6
UpUpAway

UpUpAway
  • Members
  • 1 224 messages

Every game should have as many difficulty levels as possible, ranging from ridiculously easy to ridiculously hard, IMO.



#7
Pearl (rip bioware)

Pearl (rip bioware)
  • Members
  • 7 305 messages
If it doesn't make me want to die, then it's not hard enough.

ME2 was the hardest Insanity in the series but it still barely measured on my personal scale.

#8
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 3 007 messages

Every game should have as many difficulty levels as possible, ranging from ridiculously easy to ridiculously hard, IMO.

That in no way addresses what this thread is about. I'm fine with the game being easy. I just want "Insanity" to be HARD.



#9
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 3 007 messages

If it doesn't make me want to die, then it's not hard enough.

ME2 was the hardest Insanity in the series but it still barely measured on my personal scale.

Exactly. Lets at least make one difficulty worth going through. Insanity didn't feel like an accomplishment in any of the games. That's a problem in my opinion.



#10
Cyonan

Cyonan
  • Members
  • 19 374 messages

ME1's "difficulty" really has nothing to do with the enemies, themselves. It's because of how leveling and gear progression worked. The only difference from one difficulty setting to the next was enemies would have bigger health bars and will deal more damage. Once you maxed out your character and achieved the best SPECTRE armor in the game, insanity is nothing but a chore at that point.

 

That's really all ME2 was: wait behind cover for shields to regenerate and kill mobs. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if the process wasn't the same rinse and repeat over and over. I'd say Insanity on ME2 was more of a hassle than actually being difficult. I don't think I ever died in any of the games on Insanity honestly.

 

The only aspect of ME3's "insanity" that might have been somewhat of a challenge was in the final mission where you are waiting for the reaper to get in range so you can launch missiles at it. That was a horde/firefight setup similar to MP where waves of enemies get harder and you have to endure until the missiles are ready. Otherwise, ME3 wasn't memorable for any difficult components.

 

I jut want more of a challenge with MEA. The game doesn't need to punish me. But, I don't want it to be incredibly easy either.

 

I agree that I'd like to see smarter AI, especially as the difficulty goes up. At the very least, maybe make them a bit more responsive and accurate.

 

I think it'd also be interesting for enemies to have new/more abilities based on the difficulty level you're playing on.



#11
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 3 007 messages

I agree that I'd like to see smarter AI, especially as the difficulty goes up. At the very least, maybe make them a bit more responsive and accurate.

 

I think it'd also be interesting for enemies to have new/more abilities based on the difficulty level you're playing on.

I think both of these suggestions are great. Smarter AI as well as the introduction of new mechanics at higher levels. I think both could go a long way to rectifying the issues with ME's lack of a challenge on any of its difficulty settings.



#12
Pearl (rip bioware)

Pearl (rip bioware)
  • Members
  • 7 305 messages

I agree that I'd like to see smarter AI, especially as the difficulty goes up. At the very least, maybe make them a bit more responsive and accurate.
 
I think it'd also be interesting for enemies to have new/more abilities based on the difficulty level you're playing on.


I would like to see encounters change depending on your difficulty. Have fewer trash mobs spawn in favor of more elites or ultras, that kind of thing.

#13
UpUpAway

UpUpAway
  • Members
  • 1 224 messages

That in no way addresses what this thread is about. I'm fine with the game being easy. I just want "Insanity" to be HARD.

 

It does address exactly what you're talking about.



#14
Revan Reborn

Revan Reborn
  • Members
  • 3 007 messages

It does address exactly what you're talking about.

You are stating you want the game to be as accessible as possible. That's fine. I'm not worried about the game being easy. BioWare makes easy games. I'm worried about whether it will be challenging or not. Mass Effect doesn't have a solid track record for providing challenging experiences. Perhaps that will change since BioWare Montreal is working on MEA, but typically the majority (non-insanity players) will get preferential treatment over the niche that likes to push the game mechanics to their breaking point.



#15
Sanunes

Sanunes
  • Members
  • 4 392 messages

The problem is difficult for you might not be the same as difficult for another person.  I thought all attempts at Insanity difficulty wasn't very hard you just needed to learn another pattern, but BioWare probably has the metrics for the amount of people that attempted Insanity difficulty and how many completed it and will use that as a measurement to judge if they need to make it harder or not.

 

I really don't know how I would want them to make it to be challenging for me either for I can walk through almost any game on its hardest setting without any issue and the only problems I have is poor encounter design.  The closest thing I could think of is to swap out enemies for tougher ones to change up the mechanics of the fight like how they handled multiplayer with Mass Effect 3.



#16
UpUpAway

UpUpAway
  • Members
  • 1 224 messages

You are stating you want the game to be as accessible as possible. That's fine. I'm not worried about the game being easy. BioWare makes easy games. I'm worried about whether it will be challenging or not. Mass Effect doesn't have a solid track record for providing challenging experiences. Perhaps that will change since BioWare Montreal is working on MEA, but typically the majority (non-insanity players) will get preferential treatment over the niche that likes to push the game mechanics to their breaking point.

 

No, I'm not stating that I want the game to be as accessible as possible.  I want the span broadened to a point where Easy is RIDICULOUSLY EASY (so no one posts that they "hate shooters" and asks for a hack to bypass that part of it) and a hard difficulty so RIDICULOUSLY HARD that no human on earth could ever get by it to stop the brags about being GODLIKE, etc. (which is probably the real point of this thread anyways). 

 

Every game should have an essentially combat-less mode and a Permadeath mode where death is inevitable and one has to start the game over again from the beginning when that inevitable death occurs.  I want a game with a level with programmed odds so bad that no one can beat it.  I also want the security on the program so good that no one could hack it either... because that's what I predict people would just resort to doing anyways.  Video games are not really about skill... button pushing is not an athletic endeavor.  They are more about "programmed luck" and I enjoying playing a lot of solitaire games with odds so bad that I rarely actually ever beat them.

 

In the middle ground, where most people play, it should be, above all else, FUN.  You see, I'm all for preferential treatment for the majority.  Of course, I don't expect my position to be a popular one here.  Why?  Because video games are long and people get annoyed when they invest hours into a game and then don't beat it.  With video games, people expect to be able to just reload from a nearby save point and keep going.  If the game is programmed to be so hard that they can't logically see themselves getting to the end point, they usually just rage quit and pick up a different game.  That's why that middle ground being FUN would be the most important part for me.

 

Would further improvements to the AI make the game more fun for all levels of play... certainly... and I'm all for that as well.  I also think having different levels of limited ammo could also make combat more strategic (i.e. you would need to decide your ammo load before leaving on a mission and not get to pick up any clips during the mission so you have to ration your shots and make every shot count.  Higher difficulty levels would have less room to carry ammo in their loadout) - but most people here seem to favor having unlimited ammo.  Adding in a true stealth component (where the player really has to "think" their way through the combat area) might also help make the combat more difficult (i.e. strategic).


  • Capt_Kangaroo aime ceci

#17
Diablo4evr

Diablo4evr
  • Members
  • 88 messages

Just as long as they don't include cheap mechanics. If I were to die, I want it to feel like it's because of my scrubby play, not because I got cheated. Bioware (and EA for that matter) have a very poor record at making good, difficult games against the computer. Their idea of making it difficult is just to make it brokenly cheap to the point you have to deal with BS or repeat broken fights until you get it right ie. lucky. It's probably why ME3 was so ridiculously easy... They have to increase the difficulty to where skill, not luck is rewarded and I have my doubts in their ability to do so... Improving the AI is the way to go. A co-ordinated team of Phantoms should strike fear into your heart on insanity, not make you feel like you're practicing for bronze...



#18
Cheviot

Cheviot
  • Members
  • 1 495 messages

Actually, I thought the AI was better in ME3 than 2, since enemies would work to move you out of cover and try to flank you (with the emphasis on "try").  However, in the playing ME3 was a little easier for a few reasons:

 

1) We all had practice cheesing legitmately defeating ME2's Insanity mode.

2) Most enemies lost the layer of armour given to mobs in ME2 Insanity

3) The power combo mechanics in ME3 were really OP once known.

 

I think that veteran players won't be able to have a challenging Insanity mode because of our experience in previous games.  Perhaps elite enemies having more biotic/tech powers would be a step in the right direction, and might actually change the focus of gameplay away from gunfights too.



#19
Cyonan

Cyonan
  • Members
  • 19 374 messages

No, I'm not stating that I want the game to be as accessible as possible.  I want the span broadened to a point where Easy is RIDICULOUSLY EASY (so no one posts that they "hate shooters" and asks for a hack to bypass that part of it) and a hard difficulty so RIDICULOUSLY HARD that no human on earth could ever get by it to stop the brags about being GODLIKE, etc. (which is probably the real point of this thread anyways). 

 

Every game should have an essentially combat-less mode and a Permadeath mode where death is inevitable and one has to start the game over again from the beginning when that inevitable death occurs.  I want a game with a level with programmed odds so bad that no one can beat it.  I also want the security on the program so good that no one could hack it either... because that's what I predict people would just resort to doing anyways.  Video games are not really about skill... button pushing is not an athletic endeavor.  They are more about "programmed luck" and I enjoying playing a lot of solitaire games with odds so bad that I rarely actually ever beat them.

 

In the middle ground, where most people play, it should be, above all else, FUN.  You see, I'm all for preferential treatment for the majority.  Of course, I don't expect my position to be a popular one here.  Why?  Because video games are long and people get annoyed when they invest hours into a game and then don't beat it.  With video games, people expect to be able to just reload from a nearby save point and keep going.  If the game is programmed to be so hard that they can't logically see themselves getting to the end point, they usually just rage quit and pick up a different game.  That's why that middle ground being FUN would be the most important part for me.

 

Would further improvements to the AI make the game more fun for all levels of play... certainly... and I'm all for that as well.  I also think having different levels of limited ammo could also make combat more strategic (i.e. you would need to decide your ammo load before leaving on a mission and not get to pick up any clips during the mission so you have to ration your shots and make every shot count.  Higher difficulty levels would have less room to carry ammo in their loadout) - but most people here seem to favor having unlimited ammo.  Adding in a true stealth component (where the player really has to "think" their way through the combat area) might also help make the combat more difficult (i.e. strategic).

 

This thread is about insanity being way too easy if you're an above average shooter. Nobody wants BioWare to try to create an impossible game mode because we'd just end up resorting to gimmicks to beat it. If they did it to Mass Effect 3 for example, we'd just exploit Nova for damage immunity.

 

Saying video games "are not really about skill" is just silly as we have competitive tournaments for many PvP games. If it were all about luck, then any random idiot could win a League of Legends tournament rather than the top tier being basically all Koreans.

 

Skill isn't just limited to athletic ability only. Even a game like Mass Effect relies on hand-eye coordination and reflexes for being able to quickly and accurately shoot enemies, which is a skill a person can be better or worse at. That's why on Overwatch my accuracy with the sniper hero is in the top 5% on the Americas server, because I'm more skilled at sniping than most players playing the game.

 

Although I will agree a game like Mass Effect ought to be played for fun above everything else, I do also find overcoming challenges in video games with personal skill and the ability to build a solid character to be fun. That's why I would like insanity to be more challenging that it has been, because it hasn't provided me with that challenge that I want out of the game(especially in ME3).

 

If insanity proves too hard for people, there is always the option to tone down the difficulty.



#20
garrusfan1

garrusfan1
  • Members
  • 8 079 messages

Well if they play like ME3 and avoid things like that ridiculous thing where you dodge a reapers beam then yeah I would be for it. Never tried it on ME1 but given the way it was I doubt it would have been too fun. ME2 felt artificial when it came to insanity. It was just adding the extra armor and stuff. ME3 the diificulty actually felt real and not just adding enough armor to make it annoying.



#21
Addictress

Addictress
  • Members
  • 3 191 messages
When I don't play for a year or two and get out of practice, it's very hard for me.

I think you're just conditioned for video gaming reflexes and all that as a hardcore gamer. If you step away for a while it'll become fresh again. Too much play, bro.

#22
UpUpAway

UpUpAway
  • Members
  • 1 224 messages

This thread is about insanity being way too easy if you're an above average shooter. Nobody wants BioWare to try to create an impossible game mode because we'd just end up resorting to gimmicks to beat it. If they did it to Mass Effect 3 for example, we'd just exploit Nova for damage immunity.

 

Saying video games "are not really about skill" is just silly as we have competitive tournaments for many PvP games. If it were all about luck, then any random idiot could win a League of Legends tournament rather than the top tier being basically all Koreans.

 

Skill isn't just limited to athletic ability only. Even a game like Mass Effect relies on hand-eye coordination and reflexes for being able to quickly and accurately shoot enemies, which is a skill a person can be better or worse at. That's why on Overwatch my accuracy with the sniper hero is in the top 5% on the Americas server, because I'm more skilled at sniping than most players playing the game.

 

Although I will agree a game like Mass Effect ought to be played for fun above everything else, I do also find overcoming challenges in video games with personal skill and the ability to build a solid character to be fun. That's why I would like insanity to be more challenging that it has been, because it hasn't provided me with that challenge that I want out of the game(especially in ME3).

 

If insanity proves too hard for people, there is always the option to tone down the difficulty.

 

Come on - Video games are not about actual physical skill... the only physical skill regardless of the game involved is "button pushing" (reflexes); therefore, the challenge has to be largely mental - i.e. strategic (which has a great impact on the "eye" part of eye/hand coordination).  Otherwise, it's mostly about the relative "skill level" of the charactet (not the player) vs. the enemy... which also has very little to do with the player's skill.  For example, at the beginning of ME1, all players basically could not hold an SR still but after assigning enough points, all players could... very little of it had to do with how well the player themselves can manipulate the control stick.  Any other games with skill trees I've played also operate on improving the "programmed stats" in the same way - making the camera steadier, the mathematics of force stronger, etc. as the player inserted points into those skills.  The character gets better even though the player does not (... and building that character is a mental challenge, not a physical one).

 

So, to make a level more challenging, without making the enemies into bullet sponges, I find it more fun if the designers add in some strategic elements to it... something that makes the player have to think their way through the level.  In my experience, games with stealth components do this better than those with just straight up combat.

 

As for the line that "this thread is about insanity so don't mention easy" - I AM TALKING ABOUT A WAY TO IMPROVE INSANITY... If you leave a way for players to opt out of combat (i.e. a combat-less mode), you can make the overall combat more difficult and, as a result, insanity more difficulty as the top end of that combat.  Also, for some players who complain about ME insanity not being hard enough... I wonder, have they turned off the squad powers completely? or turned of the aim assist? or tried playing through with only the Level 1 weapons and armors? or don't assign the level skill points at all (then the game would be all about your own fabulous reflexes, wouldn't it?)  There are lots of things players can also do to tune up the difficulty beyond the basic settings in the game.

 

So now, let's move on to why "programmed luck" is not such a bad thing.  Any level that is difficult initially that is repeated over and over again gets to feel very prredictable and very easy.  In Mass Effect, the spawns are really extremely predictable - virtually the same in every playthrough regardless of difficulty.  IMO, making spawns more random would help keep combat fresh and less predictable... meaning that players would have to genuinely react to a changing situation (as opposed to being able to predict the entire battle ahead of time).

 

... and I still wouldn't mind a "permadeath" level (above the current insanity) level.  I don't think it's that hard to program it into a game to make the game wipe the save if a "critical mission failure" occurs... and that's the only change that would be needed above and beyond the normal insanity mode.  UHC is popular in Minecraft... why not in other games?



#23
laudable11

laudable11
  • Members
  • 1 175 messages
At least let me pick insanity difficulty without beating the game first.
  • Fade9wayz et Element Zero aiment ceci

#24
rocklikeafool

rocklikeafool
  • Members
  • 420 messages

At least let me pick insanity difficulty without beating the game first.

Why? That makes no sense. It's an RPG, despite what anyone says to the contrary. Experience the story, then try to push things to the limit. It's not like beelining the main story takes that long in any Bioware title.


  • Tex aime ceci

#25
MrBSN2017

MrBSN2017
  • Members
  • 733 messages

its too hard! bioware please nerf