13 réponses à ce sujet

[Arshei]

She greatly disapproves if you allow the Grey Wardens to stay with the Inquisition, so she prefers if you just throw them away

Which is kind of stupid compared to what she thinks about the Templars

 

• Cassandra: You would prefer to have the templars return to guarding the circles, Vivienne?
• Vivienne: Of course, my dear. They need better oversight, clearly, but one does not throw away a tool because it was misused.
• Cassandra: Few mages would ask for templars in the circle.
• Vivienne: Speak to Ferelden's first enchanter. You might be surprised. When abominations ravaged your tower, suddenly the world holds far too few templars.

[Steelcan]

its a little late for a thread like this

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Maybe because she doesn't have a leash on them like she could with the Templars because it is outside the Circle jurisdiction. Having such a powerful organization doing crazy stuff is another thing.

A tool, but not her tool. She knows they are needed for Blights but she is looking/thinking short term, perhaps.

[Tatar Foras]

Everything

[Kakistos_]

I think there are several reasons why she doesn't want them around. She/The Inquisitor can't control them. Unlike the Templars, at this point in the story, The Wardens answer to hierarchy of superiors. Also, they have their own callings (pun intended) and motivations regardless of what Vivienne or the Inquisition would plan for them. They are temporary allies and will not always serve the Inquisition.

 

Another reason is their Blood Magic. The Warden Mages do not answer to the Chantry and are unrestricted in their use of Magic against Darkspawn as we have seen various examples of throughout the series. The Joining itself is a Blood Magic Ritual. While it could be argued that their actions at Adamant were unethical, it was nothing new to the Wardens.

 

Perhaps the greatest reason Vivienne dislikes the Wardens is the freedom their Mages enjoy. The Wardens are most diverse organization known in Thedas and not only have Elves, Dwarves and Humans working, cooperating and living together but Mages as well.

 

Vivienne's pro-Templar point of view reveals it's true nature over time: She doesn't really believe in the Chantry's doctrines on the subjugation of Mages but only her personal power and her place in the hierarchy that those doctrines have created. The Wardens, a powerful example of Mages and mundanes living together without restrictions, something that the Chantry would say is too dangerous, is a threat to those doctrines and thus Vivienne's power.

[Steelcan]

guys really?

 

the forum has hours to live, and you're going on about this?

[Lynroy: Final Edition]

BSN gon BSN 'til the very end.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think there are several reasons why she doesn't want them around. She/The Inquisitor can't control them. Unlike the Templars, at this point in the story, The Wardens answer to hierarchy of superiors. Also, they have their own callings (pun intended) and motivations regardless of what Vivienne or the Inquisition would plan for them. They are temporary allies and will not always serve the Inquisition.

This is one reason, and possibly the most imporant. I don't know if you're going into enough depth with it, though. One thing your Inquisitor is presumably weighing as they decide is that even assuming none of the rest of this stuff is a problem and the Wardens decide to serve you faithfully, Corypheus can take control of Blighted beings; Vivienne is probably worried that inviting an army of them into Skyhold is a potential problem for this reason. And to be fair, it very well could have been if Corypheus had decided to be a bit clever with his abilities.

 

 

Another reason is their Blood Magic. The Warden Mages do not answer to the Chantry and are unrestricted in their use of Magic against Darkspawn as we have seen various examples of throughout the series. The Joining itself is a Blood Magic Ritual. While it could be argued that their actions at Adamant were unethical, it was nothing new to the Wardens.

Definitely another reason. Vivienne really does seem sincere in her belief that the Chantry's restrictions on Blood Magic and use of demons are a good idea.

 

Perhaps the greatest reason Vivienne dislikes the Wardens is the freedom their Mages enjoy. The Wardens are most diverse organization known in Thedas and not only have Elves, Dwarves and Humans working, cooperating and living together but Mages as well.

 

Vivienne's pro-Templar point of view reveals it's true nature over time: She doesn't really believe in the Chantry's doctrines on the subjugation of Mages but only her personal power and her place in the hierarchy that those doctrines have created. The Wardens, a powerful example of Mages and mundanes living together without restrictions, something that the Chantry would say is too dangerous, is a threat to those doctrines and thus Vivienne's power.

... what?

 

Uh, at this point isn't it fair to say that Vivienne already has something like what you say she hates the Wardens for being? By hitching the Last Loyal Circle's wagon to the Inquisition, Vivienne tried to empower the Inquisition to be an organization in which mages work alongside mundanes. And if they're led by a mage... well, the Inquisition can be, and Vivienne's endgame is a mage Divine.

 

guys really?

 

the forum has hours to live, and you're going on about this?

I'd have kept my mouth shut if Kakistos' point hadn't utterly bewildered me.

[Kakistos_]

This is one reason, and possibly the most imporant. I don't know if you're going into enough depth with it, though. One thing your Inquisitor is presumably weighing as they decide is that even assuming none of the rest of this stuff is a problem and the Wardens decide to serve you faithfully, Corypheus can take control of Blighted beings; Vivienne is probably worried that inviting an army of them into Skyhold is a potential problem for this reason. And to be fair, it very well could have been if Corypheus had decided to be a bit clever with his abilities.

 

 

Definitely another reason. Vivienne really does seem sincere in her belief that the Chantry's restrictions on Blood Magic and use of demons are a good idea.

 

... what?

 

Uh, at this point isn't it fair to say that Vivienne already has something like what you say she hates the Wardens for being? By hitching the Last Loyal Circle's wagon to the Inquisition, Vivienne tried to empower the Inquisition to be an organization in which mages work alongside mundanes. And if they're led by a mage... well, the Inquisition can be, and Vivienne's endgame is a mage Divine.

 

I'd have kept my mouth shut if Kakistos' point hadn't utterly bewildered me.

 

I would go in more depth if the forums had more time to live.

 

I agree the possibility that Corypheus could control the Wardens is probably the most important reason. I overlooked that.

 

As for my final point I should have clarified. Basically one of the reasons Vivienne doesn't like the Wardens is that their successful organization that includes free Mages, when attached to the Inquisition whom everyone is paying attention to, undermines her goal of keeping Mages subjugated for her own personal ambitions. The Warden Mages are as free as any other Warden but Vivienne's Loyalist are still beholden to the Chantry and Templar's leash. The Wardens, who are not usually in a spotlight would inspire Commoner thoughts such as: "The Grey Wardens are heroes and now they're helping the Herald of Andraste. If their Mages are free why can't ours be too? The Hero of Ferelden was a Mage...etc".

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

 

As for my final point I should have clarified. Basically one of the reasons Vivienne doesn't like the Wardens is that their successful organization that includes free Mages, when attached to the Inquisition whom everyone is paying attention to, undermines her goal of keeping Mages subjugated for her own personal ambitions. The Warden Mages are as free as any other Warden but Vivienne's Loyalist are still beholden to the Chantry and Templar's leash. The Wardens, who are not usually in a spotlight would inspire Commoner thoughts such as: "The Grey Wardens are heroes and now they're helping the Herald of Andraste. If their Mages are free why can't ours be too? The Hero of Ferelden was a Mage...etc".

I'll grant you this point, but it's probably not a major one since she has so many better reasons to want them gone. (Especially given what the Wardens did with their free mages; if anything what the Wardens did helps her case that mages need supervision.)

[Kantr]

The templars didn't do anything. Just hid behind the door 

[Rel Fexive]

Couldn't even stop posting **** like this even in the last hours? Stupid BSN is stupid.

[CoM Solaufein]

Its just stupid and stuff

[CoM Solaufein]

Its just stupid and stuff