363 réponses à ce sujet

[EJ42]

Nuegen wrote...

Hyperblaze wrote...


Just a suggestion: if you know ahead of time she'll disapprove, switch her out of your party.

For example, in redcliffe, until I was ready to fight, I had lelianne, alistair, myself and the dog in my party.

Never received one negative approval from anyone (ie, sten or morrigan)

I understand that but it also ruins future plays and doesn't change who she is (which is why I do not like her.)  If you play a nice guy, why do you want her to like you so much you hide the fact your a nice guy from her?  If you play a jerk, there is no reason to take her out of your party.  Meta gaming is fine, its just not what this thread was about.

I don't understand your issue with her reactions.  You obviously do not know how to deal with her properly.

People never change until they're given a reason to.  She may react poorly to your choices, but she'll never understand kindness if she doesn't witness it for what it is.  All she's ever known is Flemeth.  If you're not willing to deal with her tainted personality long enough to show her some kindness, then how do you ever expect her to learn anything different from what she's been brainwashed into believing?

I never booted her from the party, and yet I still had her at 100 long before halfway into the game.  I still had several of her gifts wasted at the end.

If you give her a chance, she'll come around.

[NinjaWJ]

i like morrigan, she adds an interesting flair to DA

[Gemini1179]

Personally, my favorite female in the whole game is Queen Anora... Lelianna is second, Morrigan is third. Morrigan is a bad girl, and no good for a nice guy like me- I just end up getting hurt.

[Nuegen]

EJ42 wrote...

]I don't understand your issue with her reactions.  You obviously do not know how to deal with her properly.

People never change until they're given a reason to.  She may react poorly to your choices, but she'll never understand kindness if she doesn't witness it for what it is.  All she's ever known is Flemeth.  If you're not willing to deal with her tainted personality long enough to show her some kindness, then how do you ever expect her to learn anything different from what she's been brainwashed into believing?

I never booted her from the party, and yet I still had her at 100 long before halfway into the game.  I still had several of her gifts wasted at the end.

If you give her a chance, she'll come around.

That was very nice of you.  Of course if you can't understand my issue with her reactions, then exactly how do you think you could change a woman like her?   Psychology works in mysterious ways.  I learned long ago not to get into a relationship that I felt I had to "fix" the person I am in a relationship with.  It is enough work just being in a relationship let alone "fixing" a person.  

I just personally didn't like her and hated her reactions to everything I did in the game so it was much easier just to keep her in the camp and "show" her the way to be nice by just giving her a few baubles without her rude comments about how stupid I was while playing the game.  The dog was more emotionally developed than her.

To clarify, I thought the Morrigan character was great.  She as a character was well developed (although emotionally she was still on the level of the animals she grew up with).  As a person in RL, I would not spend time with her unless in a situation where she would be needed to save the world like she was in this game.  There are professionals who could help her far more than I. 

[Fantus]

Morrgian is sure well written and a believable character. That makes me "like" her. But let's just say, my mage is happy to spend his days with Leliana instead (at least until David Gaider will make him dump her to be able to play Awakening). In contrast to Morrgian, he doesn't eat songbirds for breakfast.

[MutantSpleen]

I hate that shallow ****. She rots in my camp. I should have just kicked her out. Flemeth said she was important and we needed her but that doesn't really seem to be true yet. (At least up to this point, not quite done with my first play through)



Honestly I did get her to be a little nicer but honestly it wasn't worth the effort. I love Leliana though, and Wynne rocks too. Lot of people hate on Wynne because she is old but if you really talk to her and she opens up she has a lot of good things to say. Wynne is definitely my mage's mentor.

[EJ42]

Nuegen wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

]I don't understand your issue with her reactions.  You obviously do not know how to deal with her properly.

People never change until they're given a reason to.  She may react poorly to your choices, but she'll never understand kindness if she doesn't witness it for what it is.  All she's ever known is Flemeth.  If you're not willing to deal with her tainted personality long enough to show her some kindness, then how do you ever expect her to learn anything different from what she's been brainwashed into believing?

I never booted her from the party, and yet I still had her at 100 long before halfway into the game.  I still had several of her gifts wasted at the end.

If you give her a chance, she'll come around.

That was very nice of you.  Of course if you can't understand my issue with her reactions, then exactly how do you think you could change a woman like her?   Psychology works in mysterious ways.  I learned long ago not to get into a relationship that I felt I had to "fix" the person I am in a relationship with.  It is enough work just being in a relationship let alone "fixing" a person.  

I just personally didn't like her and hated her reactions to everything I did in the game so it was much easier just to keep her in the camp and "show" her the way to be nice by just giving her a few baubles without her rude comments about how stupid I was while playing the game.  The dog was more emotionally developed than her.

To clarify, I thought the Morrigan character was great.  She as a character was well developed (although emotionally she was still on the level of the animals she grew up with).  As a person in RL, I would not spend time with her unless in a situation where she would be needed to save the world like she was in this game.  There are professionals who could help her far more than I. 

To each his own.  While Morrigan isn't exactly a "battered woman," there are those in real life who are psychologically damaged by abusive relationships.  They don't exactly need "fixing" by a decent guy, but they're not going to be as happy-go-lucky, fawning over you like Leliana either.

Sadly, I think you may actually be more shallow and callous than Morrigan.  If you think about it, you're acting just like her.  Morrigan has never been shown any sort of kindness, so you are just happy to let her rot and die.  How is that any different from her disinterest in trying to save a pretty worthless barmaid or a pair of orphans who will most likely just end up in a worse situation anyway.  You can't exactly adopt them yourself, and they'll probably just get eaten by darkspawn on the way to wherever you send them.

Morrigan needs your help.  She may not exactly be locked in a dungeon, but she does need to be saved.  (Saved from the poison fed to her by Flemeth)

Modifié par EJ42, 11 janvier 2010 - 03:17 .

[Erakleitos]

she's my fav :>

[Paxxon]

Morrigan is a great character. More depth than most PC characters. I am sure that she will come back to haunt me at a later date.

[EJ42]

Actually, Morrigan's opinion is similar to how I feel about those stupid foreign charity commercials. "For only $20 a month, you can save a starving child in <wherever>, while completely ignoring all of the homeless/starving children in your own state."

Morrigan realizes that you cannot save everyone. Even consider how Sten reacts to your quest to save <certain character>. It's a waste of time and resources when you have more important things to be dealing with. Giving away gold to some orphans may prevent you from having the funds needed to repair your arnor or weapons, and then where would you be?

Morrigan is a pragmatist. She doesn't understand kindness for kindness' sake. It's something she has to learn, and she has years of bad examples to overcome. Ultimately, there is hope for her.

For people who say that she is "evil", there isn't a single shred of evidence that she takes pleasure in the suffering of others. She, at worst, is indifferent. Even when she appears to be indifferent, there is nothing to prove that she doesn't feel some sort of sympathy deep down. She just knows that people need to learn to take care of themselves like she did. Helping them would make them weak, in her opinion.

[Xetrill]

I do, IMO the most interesting character in the game. Plus it's fun listening to her shooting alistair down ^^

[RobinMichelleB]

I like her character because I think that her reactions add an interesting viewpoint to the game. I played the ultimate good character, so very frequently Morrigan just didn't understand where I was coming from, and I like that that opinion is represented. Whereas Alistair and Leliana will pretty much agree and try to help as many people as possible (not that I consider it a bad thing, because that is what I did), Morrigan represents the hard decision that sometimes has to be made. At the end of the game, I had her at 100% approval, despite the fact that I did not always agree with her in conversations, and her comments in our last conversations certainly showed that she had learned something from my character at the same time that I learned something from hers.

Modifié par RobinMichelleB, 11 janvier 2010 - 03:32 .

[MoSa09]

EJ42 wrote...

Actually, Morrigan's opinion is similar to how I feel about those stupid foreign charity commercials. "For only $20 a month, you can save a starving child in , while completely ignoring all of the homeless/starving children in your own state."
Morrigan realizes that you cannot save everyone. Even consider how Sten reacts to your quest to save . It's a waste of time and resources when you have more important things to be dealing with. Giving away gold to some orphans may prevent you from having the funds needed to repair your arnor or weapons, and then where would you be?
Morrigan is a pragmatist. She doesn't understand kindness for kindness' sake. It's something she has to learn, and she has years of bad examples to overcome. Ultimately, there is hope for her.
For people who say that she is "evil", there isn't a single shred of evidence that she takes pleasure in the suffering of others. She, at worst, is indifferent. Even when she appears to be indifferent, there is nothing to prove that she doesn't feel some sort of sympathy deep down. She just knows that people need to learn to take care of themselves like she did. Helping them would make them weak, in her opinion.

Very well said.
Many people thinks she is evil cause, for example, she argues against rescuing Redcliffe. But think about it: you and Alistair are the last remaining Grey Warden's, if you fail and die, than Ferelden is lost. Even if you save those people and die along the way, they will die later on when the Blight reaches them.
We as players know that there is no such thing as a bad quest that get's you killed for the game, and you can always reloead, but the in game characters know nothing of that. Being a Grey Warden is all about making sacrifices for the greater good (think about Duncan and Ser Jory, or the story where Duncan killed a whole village to stop the Blight from spreading), and risking your life and let the Blight win or retreat and let those hundred die to save the whole Ferelden and therefore rescue thousands of people, is, from an in game perspective, at least worth considering. Sometimes, hard choices have to be made, and she and probably Sten to some degree are the only ones who seem to realize this.

Apart from that she is pretty reasonable. If you have a high enough persuasion skill to pass the checks, you can argue with her to rescue the mages in the tower, and she will agree to do it with no approval loss at all. Giving the way she lived and been tought by Flemeth, it's understandable how she views the world, but she is more open minded than many other characters in her agreement/disagreement and if you convince her of your opinion, you can greatly reduce her loss of approval, if not completely eradicate it, more than any other party member i encountered

Modifié par MoSa09, 11 janvier 2010 - 03:46 .

[MutantSpleen]

The thing the she is such an idiot about is that you are trying to build allies and gain support against a guy who most of the country consider a hero and that has convinced most of the country that the Grey Wardens are traitors. If you went around following her **** advice, you would have no allies and just reinforce all the crappy things that most already think about your order. She can't see the big picture, she only looks at things through her narrow selfish view. Add to that she is about as tactful as a sledgehammer...

Morrigan "If he is foolishly run off into the woods then the boy is dead"

Alistair: "Why don't you just kick her in the head while your at it"

God I just wanted to slap her half the time.

Modifié par MutantSpleen, 11 janvier 2010 - 04:30 .

[MoSa09]

MutantSpleen wrote...

The thing the she is such an idiot about is that you are trying to build allies and gain support against a guy who most of the country consider a hero and that has convinced most of the country that the Grey Wardens are traitors. If you went around following her **** advice, you would have no allies and just reinforce all the crappy things that most already think about your order. She can't see the big picture, she only looks at things through her narrow selfish view. Add to that she is about as tactful as a sledgehammer...

Well, that's not exactly true. If you play along and follow her advice, you still end up with the same allies as if you decide against her all the time. For the crappy things peole think about the order: Grey Warden'S are never heroes, if you listen to peoples conversations and so on, Grey Warden's are respected for their sacrifice and feared for their might and dedication to their duty, but they're never loved.

And for being tactful as sledgehammer :happy:? Yeah, i guess you're right about that. But then, i have been raised and live in a lethal swamp for 20 years, the only company being a person like Flemeth, it's not really that big surprise she is not very tactful, is it?

but i don't want to engage in a fight here: is she a bad ass b*tch when you meet her? Yes she is. But once you get to know her better, you see and understand why she is what she is, and in my case, i can't stop feeling sorry for what she had to endure and what she has become, as she never had a choice to life a different, happier life and experience love.
And once you get close to her, you can break that facade of hers and make her see a different perspective on life and change some of her views sshe had for the time of her life, and you begin to se that there is a heart in there and that, given a different start in live or different circumstances to spend more time with you, a different women is possible.

Well, all people in the world are shaped by their life and deal with that issues throughout their whole life, she is no toher than Alistair, Sten, Leliana, Zevran and all the others, it's just that depending on how you play the game, one or the other affects your game more or less

Modifié par MoSa09, 11 janvier 2010 - 04:38 .

[MutantSpleen]

I am sorry she had a crappy childhood but that does not mean we (me and most of the others of the party who despise her) have to deal with all her issues. I have bigger things to worry about.

[big_billy_bagel]

I see many redeeming features in Morrigan (I am a bit of a devilish sob myself, so this is why) and obviously Leliana would appeal too.



In the game I was romancing both until I was told to choose and damn that was tough.

[EJ42]

MutantSpleen wrote...

I am sorry she had a crappy childhood but that does not mean we (me and most of the others of the party who despise her) have to deal with all her issues. I have bigger things to worry about.

So you're saying that you're too shallow to "deal with her" instead of being willing to try to show her your point of view?  Sounds like Morrigan is a "nicer" person than you are.

If you bothered to talk to her, you would find that she really does feel awkward about relationships with other people.  Even the very first conversation, she tells you she doesn't even understand things like handshakes.  Later, if you get her approval high enough, she will even say that she fully expected you to send her away at the first opportunity.  You're just not nice enough to show her a little kindness and patience to get her to come around.

For that reason, I like you less than I like her.  At least she isn't completely closed-minded.

[MutantSpleen]

EJ42 wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

I am sorry she had a crappy childhood but that does not mean we (me and most of the others of the party who despise her) have to deal with all her issues. I have bigger things to worry about.

So you're saying that you're too shallow to "deal with her" instead of being willing to try to show her your point of view?  Sounds like Morrigan is a "nicer" person than you are.

If you bothered to talk to her, you would find that she really does feel awkward about relationships with other people.  Even the very first conversation, she tells you she doesn't even understand things like handshakes.  Later, if you get her approval high enough, she will even say that she fully expected you to send her away at the first opportunity.  You're just not nice enough to show her a little kindness and patience to get her to come around.

For that reason, I like you less than I like her.  At least she isn't completely closed-minded.

Wow you have me all figured out huh?  Well for your information I did go out of my way to make nice with her, and bit my tongue several times when i wanted to let her have it. Yes I did make her a little nicer, but was it worth it?  We shall see, I am not done with my first playthrough yet. I am betting, no she really hasn't changed that much.  Mind you I am a female, I can't just hop in the sack with her.

[MoSa09]

Ethan009 wrote...

Wait so not wanting to take time out to deal with someone who can take care of themselves and try to change them is shallower than not wanting to take time out to help someone live a little longer because they can't defend themselves? :/

I don't understand. I mean I can see why people like Morri but do you guys really need to start jumping down people's throats because they don't? Morri is a polarizing character. Some will like her and others will dislike her. It has little to do with how "shallow" someone is.

That's probably the best that can be said about this matter. If you prefer Alistair, Leliana, Morrigan or Zevran is, after all, a matter of personal taste. Each one has it's advantages, and each one has it's flaws, and in the end, they are all worthy and lovely characters. Arguing about personal taste is foolish, as you're never going to convince someone to change his or her taste.
I just wanted to make clear with my post that she is not evil and deserves the same respect for her personality and personal story/background than all the other characters, not more. She is polarizing, that's part of her charm to me, i don't fall for Leliana cause she's just lacking that pointy ends of personality that rubs against common tradition that i like more.
But that is not to say any one of them is better, just a matter of my own personal taste

[Metalunatic]

She is my favorite character and now we will probably have to wait at least 2 years to see her again in a sequel. Quite depressing.

[Nuegen]

EJ42 wrote...

To each his own.  While Morrigan isn't exactly a "battered woman," there are those in real life who are psychologically damaged by abusive relationships.  They don't exactly need "fixing" by a decent guy, but they're not going to be as happy-go-lucky, fawning over you like Leliana either.

Sadly, I think you may actually be more shallow and callous than Morrigan.  If you think about it, you're acting just like her.  Morrigan has never been shown any sort of kindness, so you are just happy to let her rot and die.  How is that any different from her disinterest in trying to save a pretty worthless barmaid or a pair of orphans who will most likely just end up in a worse situation anyway.  You can't exactly adopt them yourself, and they'll probably just get eaten by darkspawn on the way to wherever you send them.

Morrigan needs your help.  She may not exactly be locked in a dungeon, but she does need to be saved.  (Saved from the poison fed to her by Flemeth)

You have to be kidding me.  You are now personally attacking me because I do not like your pixel love interest.

In some instances, you are correct, I AM more shallow and callous than Morrigan because I would rather just not deal with an emotionally unstable and self professed manipulative person like her.  No, I do not wish for her to rot and die (where did you see me say that?)  She IS only a highly flawed character in a game though, so her emotions do not mean that much to me.  If she were real, preferrably, she could get some help from someone far more qualified in the psychology field than you or I because she would most likely get more screwed up than she was before either of us did our little faux psychological help.    

Who's to say she is not manipulating you to "think"  she is turning a corner anyway?  

Trying to help out Redcliff, is not a waste of time nor resources, you need it for support later in the game.  Sten I could understand because he is just anxious to kill darkspawn, Morrigan on the other hand KNOWS why you are there and KNOWS you are trying to do something important for the future.  I am sure she understands you need to collect the leaves before you can boil the brew. 

Helping out those who can not help themselves is better than not doing anything, no matter if "something" might happen to them later.  Guess what, if that were the case, we might as well not worry about stopping the Archdemon, because , geeze something bad might happen anyway.

Really, the character is great, I am quite happy that they made a person that could get you so emotionally invested.  I hope you continue to enjoy your digital romance with her.  She is not someone for me, she is for people like you.  Just to warn you off, I am not infatuated with Leliana either.  This is not an either/or situation.  I am on no "team".  Well, I wouldn't have minded Isabella being a companion, or Wynne to lose a few (a lot of) years.

Modifié par Nuegen, 11 janvier 2010 - 06:21 .

[Iris562]

Nuegen wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

To each his own.  While Morrigan isn't exactly a "battered woman," there are those in real life who are psychologically damaged by abusive relationships.  They don't exactly need "fixing" by a decent guy, but they're not going to be as happy-go-lucky, fawning over you like Leliana either.

Sadly, I think you may actually be more shallow and callous than Morrigan.  If you think about it, you're acting just like her.  Morrigan has never been shown any sort of kindness, so you are just happy to let her rot and die.  How is that any different from her disinterest in trying to save a pretty worthless barmaid or a pair of orphans who will most likely just end up in a worse situation anyway.  You can't exactly adopt them yourself, and they'll probably just get eaten by darkspawn on the way to wherever you send them.

Morrigan needs your help.  She may not exactly be locked in a dungeon, but she does need to be saved.  (Saved from the poison fed to her by Flemeth)

You have to be kidding me.  You are now personally attacking me because I do not like your pixel love interest.

In some instances, you are correct, I AM more shallow and callous than Morrigan because I would rather just not deal with an emotionally unstable and self professed manipulative person like her.  No, I do not wish for her to rot and die (where did you see me say that?)  She IS only a highly flawed character in a game though, so her emotions do not mean that much to me.  If she were real, preferrably, she could get some help from someone far more qualified in the psychology field than you or I because she would most likely get more screwed up than she was before either of us did our little faux psychological help.    

Who's to say she is not manipulating you to "think"  she is turning a corner anyway?  

Trying to help out Redcliff, is not a waste of time nor resources, you need it for support later in the game.  Sten I could understand because he is just anxious to kill darkspawn, Morrigan on the other hand KNOWS why you are there and KNOWS you are trying to do something important for the future.  I am sure she understands you need to collect the leaves before you can boil the brew. 


Helping out those who can not help themselves is better than not doing anything, no matter if "something" might happen to them later.  Guess what, if that were the case, we might as well not worry about stopping the Archdemon, because , geeze something bad might happen anyway.

Really, the character is great, I am quite happy that they made a person that could get you so emotionally invested.  I hope you continue to enjoy your digital romance with her.  She is not someone for me, she is for people like you.  Just to warn you off, I am not infatuated with Leliana either.  This is not an either/or situation.  I am on no "team".  Well, I wouldn't have minded Isabella being a companion, or Wynne to lose a few (a lot of) years.

Hehe. EJ got burnt.

[SWAGshow]

The thing I don't like about Morrigan is that she is so unpredictable when talking to her. Sometimes she likes flattery, sometimes she hates it. Sometimes she likes violence, sometimes she hates it. The only thing you can count on is that she's usually pragmatic.