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[Lord Evermore]

wanderon wrote...

Lord Evermore wrote...

wanderon wrote...

:shrugs: I've been hanging around "official" Bioware and other IE game sites since the early days of BG and never found ANY of them to abuse their censorship powers.

They do however expect people to be civil and to follow the forum rules and a lot of people would rather not be civil on the internet (or follow any rulkes at all) but I certainly have never seen any attempt to stifle criticism as long as it remains civil and conforms to the rules of the forum.

Inferring that moving this thread to off topic is censorship when the forum it was originally posted in is clearly labeled as a forum for discussing the GAME (not the social site) is a good example of how misleading most complaints that official boards abuse censorship are.

I disagree.

If I start a thread on the "General Discussion" board right now about how one of the developers saved my cat when it got stuck in a tree and I think she is the greatest person in the world, do you think that thread gets moved?

Yes I do - I have in fact SEEN a thread started that was extremely pro dev and was closed by David Gaider almost immediately and the poster told thank you for the support but there are already numerous open threads on the subject you can post your thoughts in.

I can't speak to how things may be with other developers but in my experience with forums for Bioware, Obsidian, Black Isle, and Interplay I have never seen any heavy handed moderation intended to "stifle" criticism.

In fact my experience has been quite the contrary as I have often been been quite annoyed at the amount of pointless negative threads that have been allowed to pervade their forums and often felt a stronger hand in moderating would be a GOOD thing and that they are in fact allowing too much leeway to those who like to play the popular "lets bash _______ on the internet today" game.

http://social.biowar.../9/index/428115

http://social.biowar.../9/index/798246

http://social.biowar.../9/index/822529

There's three off the first page. 

[Lord Evermore]

Double post.

Modifié par Lord Evermore, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:07 .

[wanderon]

Lord Evermore wrote...

wanderon wrote...

Lord Evermore wrote...

wanderon wrote...

:shrugs: I've been hanging around "official" Bioware and other IE game sites since the early days of BG and never found ANY of them to abuse their censorship powers.

They do however expect people to be civil and to follow the forum rules and a lot of people would rather not be civil on the internet (or follow any rulkes at all) but I certainly have never seen any attempt to stifle criticism as long as it remains civil and conforms to the rules of the forum.

Inferring that moving this thread to off topic is censorship when the forum it was originally posted in is clearly labeled as a forum for discussing the GAME (not the social site) is a good example of how misleading most complaints that official boards abuse censorship are.

I disagree.

If I start a thread on the "General Discussion" board right now about how one of the developers saved my cat when it got stuck in a tree and I think she is the greatest person in the world, do you think that thread gets moved?

Yes I do - I have in fact SEEN a thread started that was extremely pro dev and was closed by David Gaider almost immediately and the poster told thank you for the support but there are already numerous open threads on the subject you can post your thoughts in.

I can't speak to how things may be with other developers but in my experience with forums for Bioware, Obsidian, Black Isle, and Interplay I have never seen any heavy handed moderation intended to "stifle" criticism.

In fact my experience has been quite the contrary as I have often been been quite annoyed at the amount of pointless negative threads that have been allowed to pervade their forums and often felt a stronger hand in moderating would be a GOOD thing and that they are in fact allowing too much leeway to those who like to play the popular "lets bash _______ on the internet today" game.

http://social.biowar.../9/index/428115

http://social.biowar.../9/index/798246

http://social.biowar.../9/index/822529

There's three off the first page. 

Three what?

Each of those threads are about the GAME - one LOOKS like it might be about Oblivion but actually (if you took a moment to read it) it's about how a player went back to Oblivion and was bored and came back to play DA and why he did so. Its a discussion about DA and how it matches up with Oblivion and some other games.

The other two are also about DA:O - one about getting sound bites from DA for your phone and the other about constructing kewl armor for the game based on Lady Gaga where as YOUR topic is about the social site and not about the  GAME at all - hence it was moved -
 
this is not really rocket science but if you want to believe that your thread was moved becuase the devs won't allow any criticism (and not becuase it was OFF TOPIC for the forum you posted in) thats fine with me - just don't look to convince too many others who have actually been around any Bioware forums for any length of time.

[Lord Evermore]

wanderon wrote...

Lord Evermore wrote...

wanderon wrote...

Lord Evermore wrote...

wanderon wrote...

:shrugs: I've been hanging around "official" Bioware and other IE game sites since the early days of BG and never found ANY of them to abuse their censorship powers.

They do however expect people to be civil and to follow the forum rules and a lot of people would rather not be civil on the internet (or follow any rulkes at all) but I certainly have never seen any attempt to stifle criticism as long as it remains civil and conforms to the rules of the forum.

Inferring that moving this thread to off topic is censorship when the forum it was originally posted in is clearly labeled as a forum for discussing the GAME (not the social site) is a good example of how misleading most complaints that official boards abuse censorship are.

I disagree.

If I start a thread on the "General Discussion" board right now about how one of the developers saved my cat when it got stuck in a tree and I think she is the greatest person in the world, do you think that thread gets moved?

Yes I do - I have in fact SEEN a thread started that was extremely pro dev and was closed by David Gaider almost immediately and the poster told thank you for the support but there are already numerous open threads on the subject you can post your thoughts in.

I can't speak to how things may be with other developers but in my experience with forums for Bioware, Obsidian, Black Isle, and Interplay I have never seen any heavy handed moderation intended to "stifle" criticism.

In fact my experience has been quite the contrary as I have often been been quite annoyed at the amount of pointless negative threads that have been allowed to pervade their forums and often felt a stronger hand in moderating would be a GOOD thing and that they are in fact allowing too much leeway to those who like to play the popular "lets bash _______ on the internet today" game.

http://social.biowar.../9/index/428115

http://social.biowar.../9/index/798246

http://social.biowar.../9/index/822529

There's three off the first page. 

Three what?

Each of those threads are about the GAME - one LOOKS like it might be about Oblivion but actually (if you took a moment to read it) it's about how a player went back to Oblivion and was bored and came back to play DA and why he did so. Its a discussion about DA and how it matches up with Oblivion and some other games.

The other two are also about DA:O - one about getting sound bites from DA for your phone and the other about constructing kewl armor for the game based on Lady Gaga where as YOUR topic is about the social site and not about the  GAME at all - hence it was moved -
 
this is not really rocket science but if you want to believe that your thread was moved becuase the devs won't allow any criticism (and not becuase it was OFF TOPIC for the forum you posted in) thats fine with me - just don't look to convince too many others who have actually been around any Bioware forums for any length of time.

I'm not trying to convince you and I can see your side of the argument.  Can you see mine?

Modifié par Lord Evermore, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:23 .

[wanderon]

@Lord Evermore:



Can I see that official forums typically over censor criticism? That has not been my experience with them over the past 15 years or so thus I would say no I don't find that argument to hold any weight..



Can I see that using unofficial forums might offer the opportunity to be less civil about the manner in which you conduct yourself? Yes I can and perhaps thats why I tend not to frequent them.

[Skellimancer]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

So you are saying that the only way the social network is viable is that if someone from bioware occasionally pops in to tell you they love you?

That would be nice.

[FreezaSama]

I really hated the social site at first. Now I'm just... indifferent. I still liked the old Bioware forums much better.

[7th_Phoenix]

I think developers should pop in when players are experiencing technical difficulties that couldn't be resolved amongst members/players... but other than the occasional fun and random forums, projects, and groups, that would be my only reason to come on the social site -- if I was having gaming trouble.

[Beerfish]

There is a VERY fine line when talking about censorship and moderation. It is one hell of a tough job to decide what should or shouldn't on a given forum. Like it or not strict and strong moderation works best because though a few topics get closed or moved when they shouldn't a lot of garbage or bad posts are controlled. Just before ME2 release last week there was a HUGE kerfuffle about the lack of moderation over certain topics.

[Lord Evermore]

wanderon wrote...

@Lord Evermore:

Can I see that official forums typically over censor criticism? That has not been my experience with them over the past 15 years or so thus I would say no I don't find that argument to hold any weight..

Can I see that using unofficial forums might offer the opportunity to be less civil about the manner in which you conduct yourself? Yes I can and perhaps thats why I tend not to frequent them.

Unofficial forums are still moderated.  They aren't necessarily less civil although they can be. 

For those who enjoy the freedom to discuss issues, good and bad, unofficial forums can be a better choice becuase they generally do allow a bit more freedom.

I know you don't agree with that statement, and that's ok.  My experience has been different.

I've frequented the board for another EA title for years.  In those years I have seen moderators fired because they were critical of EA.  I have read personal messages from the community rep to board administrators making clear threats.  I have often and repeatedly seen threads which were clearly not violations get moved or locked simply because someone didn't like them.

Your experience is different and that is ok.  I recognize that a board can be free of over censorship.  In my brief experience with this Bioware board however, I'd say they are just as guilty as anyone else.  The best example being the disappearance of the major thread about RTO. 

It is ok if you don't agree.  It is ok if you prefer stricter moderation. 

I prefer greater freedom to discuss and I'm not inclined to give that up in exchange for nothing.

Modifié par Lord Evermore, 29 janvier 2010 - 09:59 .

[Dimble ThriceFoon]

i liked the old off-topic forum better quite frankly.