269 réponses à ce sujet

[Verifying]

I'm sort of on the opposite end of the fence here, I actually wanted to be able to end things with my ME1 LI. I told the Illusive Man that I was clear of my past relations, and was pretty sure it was over from then on until I got that message from Ashley.

There's /gotta/ be some conflict in the next game. Something tells me my Shep's going to lose Tali because of it. I mean, think about it, you walk out into some place with your ME2 LI with you, and the ME1 LI who you thought you ended things with happens to be there. It can't end well.



Telling Tali that she's the only woman I want seems a bit hypocritical when he was with Ashley in the last game.

Then again, I tried to end things with her. There's a storm brewing, though, and it's gonna get bad. >.<

[Oestaira]

Brah--I find it refreshing that everything with a pair of testicles isn't only interested in the number of people he can get to fondle them. Virtual or otherwise.



And yes. I'm cheating on Kaidan. BAHAHAHA

[LOST_PriNcEsS_]

I wasn't trying to imply in my earlier post that I disagreed with the ME2 romances or anything -- truth be told, I was really tempted/curious of Thane, but all his baggage(?) sort of bothered me. Plus, it felt weird to romance characters that were so likely to die in the end mission, as the inescapable death scenario was beaten to death.



What I was trying to say in my earlier post that I feel that an overarching theme in the entire Mass Effect series is *loyalty* -- being loyal to yourself (the renegade, the paragon), to humanity, to the Alliance, to the Spectres, to your crew, or lack of loyalty to Cerebus, etc. So many of the missions (especially ME2 squad ones) hit you over the head with the whole loyalty thing -- not only to make them "loyal" to you, but dealing with their lack of loyalty to their ideals. (for example... Samara and Thane had no loyalty to their children and those offspring went down dark paths.)



It was just something I noticed and felt like commenting on. I don't want to incite a romance war or anything! *crawls back into her hole*

[Oestaira]

Lost--I like where you're going with that train of thought and I concur. Garrus is just too tempting. Turian and human...I want to see a diagram for how that works.

At any rate, there have been a few points already where you get chided for not sticking to loyalties. It seems to be a prevalent theme in the ME world and it'll be interesting to see how they carry that through to ME3.

[AtreiyaN7]

LOST_PriNcEsS_ wrote...

I wasn't trying to imply in my earlier post that I disagreed with the ME2 romances or anything -- truth be told, I was really tempted/curious of Thane, but all his baggage(?) sort of bothered me. Plus, it felt weird to romance characters that were so likely to die in the end mission, as the inescapable death scenario was beaten to death.

What I was trying to say in my earlier post that I feel that an overarching theme in the entire Mass Effect series is *loyalty* -- being loyal to yourself (the renegade, the paragon), to humanity, to the Alliance, to the Spectres, to your crew, or lack of loyalty to Cerebus, etc. So many of the missions (especially ME2 squad ones) hit you over the head with the whole loyalty thing -- not only to make them "loyal" to you, but dealing with their lack of loyalty to their ideals. (for example... Samara and Thane had no loyalty to their children and those offspring went down dark paths.)

It was just something I noticed and felt like commenting on. I don't want to incite a romance war or anything! *crawls back into her hole*

I must take issue with you saying that Samara and Thane lacked loyalty to their respective children and that THAT was what drove each child to the dark side. You do realize that Samara's daughters are ALL ardat-yakshi, don't you? An ardat-yakshi is the result of a genetic disorder/flaw, OR evolutionary step depending on how you look at it. This was something Samara had no control over. Two of her daughters chose to take the life offered to them, but Morinth was different because she was wild and independent, and she flat-out enjoyed the hunt and growing in power. It wasn't a matter of Samara not being "loyal" to her children - they were born with a monster inside that only two of them had control over.

Samara clearly loved Morinth and was even proud of her independence (if you speak with her after it's over), but she still had a duty to put an end to her murderous ways. As for Thane, talk to him enough and you find out that he loved his wife and son but left his son with his relatives while avenging his wife's murder. He seemed to believe that it was the best way to keep his son from becoming an assassin, but obviously it didn't work out and Thane wanted to fix things before it was too late. He was "out on business" a lot, but that was the nature of the job and he thought they were safe at home at least. I think loyalty had nothing to do with what happened to each of their children. Thane tried his best but misjudged things and realized his mistake later at least.

Also, Thane is not a basket case. He's made peace with his life, and the hit on Nassana was basically the last step in atoning for his past sins. He fully expected to be killed after it was over, and that would have been that. For someone who's dying, he pretty much has his head screwed on straight. It's not like you have to be his psychiatrist and "fix" him - he's fine.

Edit: oops - that should've been "head screwed on straight" - grr.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 31 janvier 2010 - 09:54 .

[InvaderErl]

I will say at first I was a little unimpressed with Thane's crazy routine but when I got the whole picture I found him a very deep character.

[Homebound]

Liara as a character is better off than she was during ME1. But Liara as a character to me is not worth being part of my Shepard's "life".

[MICHELLE7]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

Does anyone understand the hell these three have been through? Garrus, Tali, and Wrex moved on just fine for the most part, but Liara and Ash/Kaiden seem to have really suffered. I haven't read Ash's email but Kaiden's seemed to say that he had just recently move on. Two years later, and the only thing he's done is go out to get drinks with someone. Your death ripped a hole in him and he probably blamed himself for leaving you on that ship when you went to get Joker.

Yeah it would have been a lot easier for someone who was just a friend to move on over someone who was a lover. And Kaidan pretty much says that he's been blaming himself for the last two years in the email...blaming himself for surviving. I think that most people because they are playing as Shep...they're seeing it from their own personal perspective but when you take a step back and look at it from the LI's side it looks entirely different.

And Liara couldn't even let you go in death. She went to find your body to bring you back to life. She stopped the Collectors from taking your body and doing who knows what. But she also handed you over to Cerebus because she was so desperate. And I was only close friends with her. She did all that for a friend. How can you possibly be mad at her for being a bit cold after what's she's been through?

I really didn't consider her cold...I just thought her dialog was a bit lacking. She's just too darn cute to be a cold blooded killer in my opinion so her assassin stance seemed out of character. She also seemed to be trying to make some sort of amends for what she thought to be an unpardonable sin for giving Shep's body over to TIM. So yeah, I think all three have been going through hell but how people respond will be based on what side they view it from. 

Maybe if your femshep can so easily cheat after a lovers quarrel then maybe the LI wasn't the love of your femshep's life after all. Kinda funny when you consider Kaidan's character...not one to get physical with someone unless he really cares for the person or is serious about them. In the email he says he has just recently been able to go out again...but it's not serious...he's telling Shep right there he didn't sleep with the woman.

How long has he gone without (sorry had to point it out) because he's been mourning Shep's death. It's obvious that it's love on his part. I just don't think Femshep could cheat on him if she really cared for him and considered his feelings and what he's going through.  As far as I'm concerned if she cheats then it wasn't love...love will always consider the feelings of the other person and not just their own. 

Again, they've been through hell, but they will come around eventually because they still love you. Was there initial anger, yes, but Shepard's been gone for two years. Like what was said above. I believe TIM purposely set up these meetings to go badly, so Shepard would turn to his side.

Sorry bud, it ain't happening.

Sounds like your response to this thing is the same as mine...I hate being manipulated and it only makes me more determined to stick it to the one manipulating me. My Shep isn't siding with Cerberus, and is staying loyal to Kaidan. 

Hate responding to my own post instead of editing but I didn't realize so many pages had gone by since I posted. On the response of TIM manipulating you...not only has he set up the encounter to cause problems between you and your LI(and through them with the Alliance) to woo you to become a Cerberus loyalist. If you get the Shep dies ending I've heard that he takes the ship back from Joker.

Looks like hiring Joker was nothing more than a ploy by TIM to make you feel comfortable with the situation enough to fully join him. Joker is being used too. It's probably the same reason that the ship was designed to be similar to the old Normandy.

Although there is a real threat with the Collectors...Kaidan/Ash and Anderson are right...Cerberus can't be trusted...Shep is being manipulated. The underlying agenda of TIM is to get Shep on his side so that he can use him/her to help him in his cause(which I think is more about him ruling the universe than promoting humans). 

[Annora]

I have my one Shepard ready to stay loyal to Kaidan, but my "main" Shepard, disgusted with his inability to trust me after all the **** we went though together, found solace in another man's arms. A Turian's arms, at that. Garrus accepted my Shepard for who she was, no strings attached, no butthurt feelings about me being dead. How selfish of Kaidan to make it all about him.

[KainrycKarr]

My shepard found it quite easy to ignore them. "Oh, you're after the shadow broker now? ....yeah, I've got Tali. Later, douche."

[marshalleck]

Verifying wrote...

I'm sort of on the opposite end of the fence here, I actually wanted to be able to end things with my ME1 LI. I told the Illusive Man that I was clear of my past relations, and was pretty sure it was over from then on until I got that message from Ashley.
There's /gotta/ be some conflict in the next game. Something tells me my Shep's going to lose Tali because of it. I mean, think about it, you walk out into some place with your ME2 LI with you, and the ME1 LI who you thought you ended things with happens to be there. It can't end well.

Telling Tali that she's the only woman I want seems a bit hypocritical when he was with Ashley in the last game.
Then again, I tried to end things with her. There's a storm brewing, though, and it's gonna get bad. >.<

Actually there doesn't have to be. The Shepard I imported into ME2 didn't have any LI from the first game, because I didn't really like any of them.

So unless they intend to retcon my Shepard's history, he's free and clear to be involved with whomever he wants in ME2 without any negative repercussion for cheating.

[KainrycKarr]

marshalleck wrote...

Verifying wrote...

I'm sort of on the opposite end of the fence here, I actually wanted to be able to end things with my ME1 LI. I told the Illusive Man that I was clear of my past relations, and was pretty sure it was over from then on until I got that message from Ashley.
There's /gotta/ be some conflict in the next game. Something tells me my Shep's going to lose Tali because of it. I mean, think about it, you walk out into some place with your ME2 LI with you, and the ME1 LI who you thought you ended things with happens to be there. It can't end well.

Telling Tali that she's the only woman I want seems a bit hypocritical when he was with Ashley in the last game.
Then again, I tried to end things with her. There's a storm brewing, though, and it's gonna get bad. >.<

Actually there doesn't have to be. The Shepard I imported into ME2 didn't have any LI from the first game, because I didn't really like any of them.

So unless they intend to retcon my Shepard's history, he's free and clear to be involved with whomever he wants in ME2 without any negative repercussion for cheating.

Agreed.

[screwoffreg]

I am sure that our LI's arent out of the woods yet. There may be some tough decisions in ME 3, even in terms of life and death, but with that said and ME 3 being the last game, Bioware has always given at least the option of having a "good" ending, even if it takes a lot of extra work.

[Cosmicinator]

Anastassia wrote...

I have my one Shepard ready to stay loyal to Kaidan, but my "main" Shepard, disgusted with his inability to trust me after all the **** we went though together, found solace in another man's arms. A Turian's arms, at that. Garrus accepted my Shepard for who she was, no strings attached, no butthurt feelings about me being dead. How selfish of Kaidan to make it all about him.

Yeah, just substitute Garrus for Tali, Kaiden for Ashley, Turian for Quarian, and man's arms for.... well... It's best not to get banned.

Modifié par Cosmicinator, 31 janvier 2010 - 12:11 .

[MICHELLE7]

screwoffreg wrote...

I am sure that our LI's arent out of the woods yet. There may be some tough decisions in ME 3, even in terms of life and death, but with that said and ME 3 being the last game, Bioware has always given at least the option of having a "good" ending, even if it takes a lot of extra work.

Actually I didn't consider any of the endings with Allistair in DAO to be good at all. If he lives he has to sleep with Morrigan...after that( as far as I was concerned) no matter how it ended it wasn't happy. Thankfully we won't have a "have to sleep with another squadmate to save the galaxy" scenario in ME3.

[Lyrandori]

I don't think no one ever said that the LI's in ME2 made BioWare stupid either. We know BioWare is clever and smart and all that mental brilliance (no sarcasm, I do believe it), but the point of the LI's "complaints" are that they're simply not fun to experience especially (or almost only) if you played ME1 and imported your game, but anyone STARTING with ME2 without having played the original wouldn't ever notice anything.

Maybe it was clever, maybe it makes sense, it's just not fun overall. At least I'll speak for myself here anyway. I didn't romance anyone in ME2 and am not even planning on making any "new" Shepard and play role it just for the sake of romancing a new ME2 character, no way, I'll stick with Liara to the end despite her changes, which by the way ARE explainable AND justifiable IF you read the Mass Effect: Redemption story which happens to occur just one month after the Normandy is destroyed and Shepard is presumed dead.

Liara at that time risked her LIFE on numerous occasions JUST to have information concerning Shepard, she wanted the truth AND she wanted to physically SEE the body, dead or alive, but in the process she got a new friend and that friend got in big trouble, as well as herself, and she HAD to "become" what she is in ME2 to protect herself and even ACT against the Shadow Broker... I'm telling you guys, Liara will kick some serious ass in ME3, I'm betting she'll play a very major role if not simply coming back as a team member.

Modifié par Lyrandori, 31 janvier 2010 - 02:39 .

[Badpie]

Verifying wrote...


There's /gotta/ be some conflict in the next game. Something tells me my Shep's going to lose Tali because of it. I mean, think about it, you walk out into some place with your ME2 LI with you, and the ME1 LI who you thought you ended things with happens to be there. It can't end well.

Telling Tali that she's the only woman I want seems a bit hypocritical when he was with Ashley in the last game.
Then again, I tried to end things with her. There's a storm brewing, though, and it's gonna get bad. >.<

I don't know if it will be as bad as you think.  I don't imagine the writers will make you give up Tali.

I imagine it will be awkward and sad and stressful but then, that's kind of how it would be in real life.  Even if you weren't "together" anymore, Ash still loves you.  She spent almost two years getting over you.  And now here you are, awake for a few WEEKS and  you easily moved on with someone else.  Ash is likely to be very hurt and sad and maybe a little angry.  Justifiably.

But I don't think they'll force you to be with Ash again.

[grumpymooselion]

pacer90 wrote...

Remember emotionally engaging? Well being pissed off is an emotion too. You basically get shot down by Liara/Kaiden/Ashley pretty hard while you are shown all these other women/men/Thane during your trip.

You're mad at you're ex, and there's a pile of opporunities sitting around you. I thought this was one of the most clever things they've ever done.

Why would anyone say Liara shot you down. Ash and Kaidan did if you chose them . . . but Liara was so happy to see Shepard. Did everyone but me miss the face mashing? And her confession of why she turned you over to cerberus. She doesn't shoot you down at all. She says she can't go with you now because she's after the Shadow Broker . . . but that's not blowing you off. That's getting revenge for the Shadow Broker trying to toss you to the Collectors.

[Eshaye]

My fem Shep's love interest is Kaidan (or was haven't met Thane yet not sure how that will go.. ^.^), what I truly found disapointing with the exchange on Horizon was Shepard's opening lines, none of them are all that great for seeing your past love since you've woken up. On my play through the first thing I kept asking anyone who might know about Kaidan is where he was at. And the best thing I can say to him when I finally find is:

"Hey Kaidan it's been too long, how have you been?" What the heck? O.o

Now logically I understand BioWare had to write with both love interests and just friends scenarios, but it just sounded so weak. I don't even blame Kaidan for being so pissed with an overture like that one! Now when I role play Shep's character I explain her aloofness by the fact that this tough cookie who can search and destroy things most people have nightmares about, is kind of emotionally inept. Sure she can pick up anyone and flirt her ass off, but when it comes to deeper feelings I think she gets a bit lost and isn't used to going that far with anyone.

However, I'd really appreciate it if in ME3 Kaidan (or Ash) become a love interest again that the choices of dialog get a bit more emotional and she lets her guard down. So far I've seen her flirt with Kaidan and let him know point blank she's interested, then teasing him mercilessly, and then letting him know he's 'sweet'. No big declaration of love though you can imagine it if you want to.. And now in ME2 she's all casual, hey dude it's been a while, why don't you come back it'll be like old times?!

Maybe Shepard needs to get some 'counseling' with Kelly...

Modifié par Eshaye, 31 janvier 2010 - 04:43 .

[NoUserNameHere]

Come to think of it, all the love interests in ME2 are very standard "pick up the pieces from a busted relationship" targets.



Garrus and Tali have been with you from the start. Tali in paticular seemed to imply that she's been at least somewhat interesting since the first game. A pretty obvious "relationship got strained" hurt/comfort target.

Then you've got Miranda/Jacob, who pretty much take the place of your potential human love interest on the ship. Obviously Shep would like them for the same reasons they like Ash/Kaidan.

... and we've got the secretary. Thats infedility 101.

It makes perfect sense! The OP is really perceptive.

[NarcissaArtois]

Badpie wrote...

I think Ash and Kaidan were more hurt and confused than anything. I think the anger came during the conversation not because they were really angry with Shepard, but because their head was spinning and they couldn't really think straight.

Think of it. You're Ash, and standing right in front of you suddenly and unexpectedly is the dead man you love. I can't imagine anyone being graceful or articulating how their feeling all that accurately at that point.

And Ash IS loyal. But she doesn't know if this is the Shepard she knows. It's one thing to come back from the dead. It's another entirely to come back from the dead and do a seemingly complete 180 as far as loyalties. That was a lot to process for Ash. And she's kind of ruled by her emotions and lets them get the better of her sometimes.

Kudos to Bioware for reminding us that there are people and relationships worth fighting for even when it's not all sunshine and roses. That's kind of what I took from it.

Thank you! Finally someone to sees it that way. When I got the email from Kaidan I was jealous of that b**** of a doctor, but he said it wasn't serious...and I am going to assume that he is going to be too busy to see her much before the end of the game...and he said "maybe..." I believe Kaidan to only truely love my femshep he said that night meant the world to him...so damn it I will fight to make things better with him.

[MICHELLE7]

Eshaye wrote...


My fem Shep's love interest is Kaidan (or was haven't met Thane yet not sure how that will go.. ^.^), what I truly found disapointing with the exchange on Horizon was Shepard's opening lines, none of them are all that great for seeing your past love since you've woken up. On my play through the first thing I kept asking anyone who might know about Kaidan is where he was at. And the best thing I can say to him when I finally find is:

"Hey Kaidan it's been too long, how have you been?" What the heck? O.o

Now logically I understand BioWare had to write with both love interests and just friends scenarios, but it just sounded so weak. I don't even blame Kaidan for being so pissed with an overture like that one! Now when I role play Shep's character I explain her aloofness by the fact that this tough cookie who can search and destroy things most people have nightmares about, is kind of emotionally inept. Sure she can pick up anyone and flirt her ass off, but when it comes to deeper feelings I think she gets a bit lost and isn't used to going that far with anyone.

However, I'd really appreciate it if in ME3 Kaidan (or Ash) become a love interest again that the choices of dialog get a bit more emotional and she lets her guard down. So far I've seen her flirt with Kaidan and let him know point blank she's interested, then teasing him mercilessly, and then letting him know he's 'sweet'. No big declaration of love though you can imagine it if you want to.. And now in ME2 she's all casual, hey dude it's been a while, why don't you come back it'll be like old times?!

Maybe Shepard needs to get some 'counseling' with Kelly...

Try some of the other dialog choices...I think the second one played a little better....where  it says you sound angry. Took a long look at the scene again and she does at least have some facial response to what he's saying...you just have make sure you don't blink or you'll miss it. I attempted to catch in with Fraps but missed somewhat...did catch some emotion though.

I liked the renegade option with Joker when you talk to him about it much better although it takes a bad turn at the end...like it's over...so I didn't stick with it but rolled back to the paragon choice but at least she says she lost more than just time in the past two years when referring to him. At least it's an acknowledgement. 

[catgirl789]

Eshaye wrote...


My fem Shep's love interest is Kaidan (or was haven't met Thane yet not sure how that will go.. ^.^), what I truly found disapointing with the exchange on Horizon was Shepard's opening lines, none of them are all that great for seeing your past love since you've woken up. On my play through the first thing I kept asking anyone who might know about Kaidan is where he was at. And the best thing I can say to him when I finally find is:

"Hey Kaidan it's been too long, how have you been?" What the heck? O.o

Now logically I understand BioWare had to write with both love interests and just friends scenarios, but it just sounded so weak. I don't even blame Kaidan for being so pissed with an overture like that one! Now when I role play Shep's character I explain her aloofness by the fact that this tough cookie who can search and destroy things most people have nightmares about, is kind of emotionally inept. Sure she can pick up anyone and flirt her ass off, but when it comes to deeper feelings I think she gets a bit lost and isn't used to going that far with anyone.

However, I'd really appreciate it if in ME3 Kaidan (or Ash) become a love interest again that the choices of dialog get a bit more emotional and she lets her guard down. So far I've seen her flirt with Kaidan and let him know point blank she's interested, then teasing him mercilessly, and then letting him know he's 'sweet'. No big declaration of love though you can imagine it if you want to.. And now in ME2 she's all casual, hey dude it's been a while, why don't you come back it'll be like old times?!

Maybe Shepard needs to get some 'counseling' with Kelly...

Thank you! I felt the same way about the dialogue choices. I too asked everyone I could about where Kaiden was and when I finally found him I just wanted to say something  along the lines of "I finally found you! T^T" Instead I get "How ya been doin since I died?" -.- Come on BW could've given people who had ME1 LIs get special lines for that one scene. Oh well, they'll repay us for our faithfulness in ME3 at least.

[catgirl789]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Try some of the other dialog choices...I think the second one played a little better....where  it says you sound angry. Took a long look at the scene again and she does at least have some facial response to what he's saying...you just have make sure you don't blink or you'll miss it. I attempted to catch in with Fraps but missed somewhat...did catch some emotion though.

I liked the renegade option with Joker when you talk to him about it much better although it takes a bad turn at the end...like it's over...so I didn't stick with it but rolled back to the paragon choice but at least she says she lost more than just time in the past two years when referring to him. At least it's an acknowledgement. 

I actually like the middle choice best, Joker's response was great in that one. He's a good friend.

[FFLB]

Janan Pacha wrote...

Why would anyone say Liara shot you down. Ash and Kaidan did if you chose them . . . but Liara was so happy to see Shepard. Did everyone but me miss the face mashing? And her confession of why she turned you over to cerberus. She doesn't shoot you down at all. She says she can't go with you now because she's after the Shadow Broker . . . but that's not blowing you off. That's getting revenge for the Shadow Broker trying to toss you to the Collectors.

Yeah, I agree. She knew you were going to come back. It's not like she suddenly melded with anyone else during those two years... or did she?? Most likely not though, since she considers the relationship to be very important to her. I guess some people just didn't like the idea of her having her own problems and life to deal with. Life = Breakup?? Anyway, I managed to have my Shepard stay loyal to her, although he was tempted by the "secretary" and flirted around with the other female crew members... but he didn't take it past the point where her portrait would be flat on the desk. That was where the line was drawn.

Anyway, since she didn't break up the relationship, I just had my Shepard stick with her going into ME3.