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[ratzerman]

Corti78 wrote...

Actually it is. If you ask her about her anger toward shadow broker she tells you everything. How she had to take your body back from the shadow broker before he handed it over to the collectors.

It troubled and hurt her a lot to have to hand Shepard over to Cerberus given their reputation. But Cerberus told her they could rebuild Shepard and in her own words she said she "Couldn't let Shepard go." She was reluctant to reveal this info because she thinks Shepard would hate her for her decision, which is why she seemed so distant when meeting.

She's not hunting the shadow broker just for her friend, but also for what he was going to do to Shepard which she says.

Exactly.  And I gotta say, I'm more than a little worried that most players will give up on her before reaching this point in the conversation.  Bioware gives the player so many oppurtunities to say "heck with this" and move on.  It's a shame because everything hinges on Shepard reaching that point where s/he can ask Liara why she is so angry.  All of her callousness and bitterness melts away, and we see the old Liara again.  She is miserable; filled with guilt and regret.  But it's her.  I dare any fan of Liara to watch her say "I couldn't let you go" and still write her off as cold and uncaring.

She didn't want Shepard to know. She was afraid s/he would "hate" her.  That's why she's so awkward and distant at the beginning.  But little by little, you're able to peel away her defenses.  When you tell her she did the right thing, and she smiles that lovely Liara smile, it makes all the running around and hacking worthwhile.

[Badpie]

Isaantia wrote...


So yeah... it was really well done and I'm glad Kaiden stood his ground. FemShep needs someone who is a leader in his own right, someone who doesn't feel like he's going to wither in her huge shadow. 

I liked this too.  Ash and Kaidan are both people who stand by their convictions, even if that means they're in conflict with something else that means a lot to them.  It would have been pretty weak writing, not to mention a bit of character assassination for either of them to just drop everything in their lives and just follow Shepard blindly only because of their love for him/her.

It's another example of the kinds of things that get sacrificed for the greater good.  In this case, it was the relationship between them that suffered.  

[Thompson family]

Corti78 wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

When it comes to Liara, I really don't understand where the "she's not loyal" and "she didn't stand by you" comments are coming from. For all the times Bioware beat us over the head with the "THEY MOVED ON!" stick, it's obvious that Liara hasn't moved on. If it wasn't for her inability to "let you go," Shepard would be hanging on a wall in a Collector ship, instead of running around saving the galaxy.

Yeah, but that part of the backstory isn't in the game, but in the comic book or on the Wiki.

Actually it is. If you ask her about her anger toward shadow broker she tells you everything. How she had to take your body back from the shadow broker before he handed it over to the collectors.

It troubled and hurt her a lot to have to hand Shepard over to Cerberus given their reputation. But Cerberus told her they could rebuild Shepard and in her own words she said she "Couldn't let Shepard go." She was reluctant to reveal this info because she thinks Shepard would hate her for her decision, which is why she seemed so distant when meeting.

She's not hunting the shadow broker just for her friend, but also for what he was going to do to Shepard which she says.

Clearly, I spoke too soon. Thanks for straightening that out, Corti78

[Souchu]

Isaantia wrote...

I have to say I was impressed. I loved that Kaiden questioned my femshep. I like that he's confused and angry. I mean talk about tearing open an old wound. Can you imagine the guilt he must have felt with him surviving and her dying? He must have been livid at Joker. I get why he's weirded out by her working with cerberus ... with cerberus re-animating her. I mean think about it, its creepy. Really creepy.

I thought the photo in the captains cabin was a nice touch as was the follow up email. I had every intention of femShep romancing Thane (who is marv in like every way) but once she saw that Kaiden's picture had been turned face down.. she marched down there and broke it off with Thane. I was really touched by the way she regarded the picture before heading through the relay.

So yeah... it was really well done and I'm glad Kaiden stood his ground. FemShep needs someone who is a leader in his own right, someone who doesn't feel like he's going to wither in her huge shadow. Oh... and someone who doesn't have a kid . StepmomShep FTL.

^This
I was kind of mad at first when it happened. But the more I think about it, the more appropriate it seemed. The e-mail and the scene with the picture at the end kind of tied me in knots. So yes, I agree with everything said here.

[ratzerman]

Dear sweet and merciful Lord..... I hope those who romanced Liara get the picture scene.
I need the picture scene. 

[pacer90]

ratzerman wrote...

Corti78 wrote...

Actually it is. If you ask her about her anger toward shadow broker she tells you everything. How she had to take your body back from the shadow broker before he handed it over to the collectors.

It troubled and hurt her a lot to have to hand Shepard over to Cerberus given their reputation. But Cerberus told her they could rebuild Shepard and in her own words she said she "Couldn't let Shepard go." She was reluctant to reveal this info because she thinks Shepard would hate her for her decision, which is why she seemed so distant when meeting.

She's not hunting the shadow broker just for her friend, but also for what he was going to do to Shepard which she says.

Exactly.  And I gotta say, I'm more than a little worried that most players will give up on her before reaching this point in the conversation.  Bioware gives the player so many oppurtunities to say "heck with this" and move on.  It's a shame because everything hinges on Shepard reaching that point where s/he can ask Liara why she is so angry.  All of her callousness and bitterness melts away, and we see the old Liara again.  She is miserable; filled with guilt and regret.  But it's her.  I dare any fan of Liara to watch her say "I couldn't let you go" and still write her off as cold and uncaring.

She didn't want Shepard to know. She was afraid s/he would "hate" her.  That's why she's so awkward and distant at the beginning.  But little by little, you're able to peel away her defenses.  When you tell her she did the right thing, and she smiles that lovely Liara smile, it makes all the running around and hacking worthwhile.

Read the comic, and it obviously involves this scene as well. Will have to make another profile off of my main ME1 save file, and properly read this. I did her quests and stuff and talked to her for ages, don't know how I missed that.

[DigitalMaster37]

ratzerman wrote...

Corti78 wrote...

Actually it is. If you ask her about her anger toward shadow broker she tells you everything. How she had to take your body back from the shadow broker before he handed it over to the collectors.

It troubled and hurt her a lot to have to hand Shepard over to Cerberus given their reputation. But Cerberus told her they could rebuild Shepard and in her own words she said she "Couldn't let Shepard go." She was reluctant to reveal this info because she thinks Shepard would hate her for her decision, which is why she seemed so distant when meeting.

She's not hunting the shadow broker just for her friend, but also for what he was going to do to Shepard which she says.

Exactly.  And I gotta say, I'm more than a little worried that most players will give up on her before reaching this point in the conversation.  Bioware gives the player so many oppurtunities to say "heck with this" and move on.  It's a shame because everything hinges on Shepard reaching that point where s/he can ask Liara why she is so angry.  All of her callousness and bitterness melts away, and we see the old Liara again.  She is miserable; filled with guilt and regret.  But it's her.  I dare any fan of Liara to watch her say "I couldn't let you go" and still write her off as cold and uncaring.

She didn't want Shepard to know. She was afraid s/he would "hate" her.  That's why she's so awkward and distant at the beginning.  But little by little, you're able to peel away her defenses.  When you tell her she did the right thing, and she smiles that lovely Liara smile, it makes all the running around and hacking worthwhile.

I totally agree. I can't wait to play that part again. I did it on my lunch break and got to that dialog and boy did I feel much better afterward.

[pacer90]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

Corti78 wrote...

Actually it is. If you ask her about her anger toward shadow broker she tells you everything. How she had to take your body back from the shadow broker before he handed it over to the collectors.

It troubled and hurt her a lot to have to hand Shepard over to Cerberus given their reputation. But Cerberus told her they could rebuild Shepard and in her own words she said she "Couldn't let Shepard go." She was reluctant to reveal this info because she thinks Shepard would hate her for her decision, which is why she seemed so distant when meeting.

She's not hunting the shadow broker just for her friend, but also for what he was going to do to Shepard which she says.

Exactly.  And I gotta say, I'm more than a little worried that most players will give up on her before reaching this point in the conversation.  Bioware gives the player so many oppurtunities to say "heck with this" and move on.  It's a shame because everything hinges on Shepard reaching that point where s/he can ask Liara why she is so angry.  All of her callousness and bitterness melts away, and we see the old Liara again.  She is miserable; filled with guilt and regret.  But it's her.  I dare any fan of Liara to watch her say "I couldn't let you go" and still write her off as cold and uncaring.

She didn't want Shepard to know. She was afraid s/he would "hate" her.  That's why she's so awkward and distant at the beginning.  But little by little, you're able to peel away her defenses.  When you tell her she did the right thing, and she smiles that lovely Liara smile, it makes all the running around and hacking worthwhile.

I totally agree. I can't wait to play that part again. I did it on my lunch break and got to that dialog and boy did I feel much better afterward.

Yeah, being mad too was kinda fun. Getting Liara pissed at me in ME3 then making up would have been awesome.

[Badpie]

I was so frustrated when Ash left me high and dry. I was angry she wouldn't listen and hurt and all that... and it kind of just made me love her more.

[Badpie]

Metopholus wrote...

i remember Bioware saying something about the love story continuing throughout the trilogy if you want it to. how is that going to work if Ash/Kaidan have moved on?

"Moved on" in a loose term that means a lot of things.  It doesn't necessariliy mean they stopped loving Shepard.  It will be interesting to see how and if they can reconcile things in ME3.  I mean it's obvious from their conversation on Horizon and the email later that they still have feelings for each other.  I can't imagine it would be too difficult a fix to patch things up with one another.

Modifié par Badpie, 28 janvier 2010 - 09:17 .

[Rathias0114]

I'm not going to lie - I got a lot more out of my relationship with Miranda than I ever did with Ashley.



One of my biggest worries though is the repercussions they mentioned happening in ME3 if you didn't stay loyal - is it one of those "get yelled at and never see me again" things or will it be deeper than that?



Hopefully if you chose to go with an ME2 LI - you'll be able to develop the relationship more in ME3, same for if you went with a ME1 LI. If Shepard doesn't end up dying in the last game, I might just spend my retirement in the foothills with Miranda - down the street from Captain Bailey.

[ratzerman]

pacer90 wrote...

Read the comic, and it obviously involves this scene as well. Will have to make another profile off of my main ME1 save file, and properly read this. I did her quests and stuff and talked to her for ages, don't know how I missed that.

Yeah, the one drawback of this scene is it spoils the end of the comic somewhat.  But it's so worth it.

I missed this final scene the first time I played through her quest too.   After she says the line about the coffee cup, don't ask about her needs.  Ask where her anger is coming from.  When she tells you, ask her why she didn't tell you before.  She'll then break down and tell you everything.  It's some beautifully tragic stuff. 

[Thompson family]

Metopholus wrote...

i remember Bioware saying something about the love story continuing throughout the trilogy if you want it to. how is that going to work if Ash/Kaidan have moved on?

I hate to say it, but maybe it only works if you romanced Liari.

I don't think so, though. I didn't play Ashley or Kaiden as a love interest, but Kaiden's big beef when I met him was that I was working for Cerberus. Perhaps if I prove myself as bigger than Cerberus, he'll get over it.

[Pathogen69]

Badpie wrote...

Metopholus wrote...

i remember Bioware saying something about the love story continuing throughout the trilogy if you want it to. how is that going to work if Ash/Kaidan have moved on?

"Moved on" in a loose term that means a lot of things.  It doesn't necessariliy mean they stopped loving Shepard.  It will be interesting to see how and if they can reconcile things in ME3.  I mean it's obvious from their conversation on Horizon and the email later that they still have feelings for each other.  I can't imagine it would be too difficult a fix to patch things up with one another.

ya, it'd be interesting to see how your love interests in the first game carried over into the third game.  i chose ashley as my LI in the first one.  when she blew me off on horizon, i said "to hell with ashley!!!" and move on to tali.  itd be interesting to see the conflict between those two in the third one over me, lil ol shep.  itd be epic though imo, the soldier vs the techy, battle of brawn vs. brains.

[unclee]

ratzerman wrote...

pacer90 wrote...

Read the comic, and it obviously involves this scene as well. Will have to make another profile off of my main ME1 save file, and properly read this. I did her quests and stuff and talked to her for ages, don't know how I missed that.

Yeah, the one drawback of this scene is it spoils the end of the comic somewhat.  But it's so worth it.

I missed this final scene the first time I played through her quest too.   After she says the line about the coffee cup, don't ask about her needs.  Ask where her anger is coming from.  When she tells you, ask her why she didn't tell you before.  She'll then break down and tell you everything.  It's some beautifully tragic stuff. 

I too was a little disappointed that they spoiled the comic. I
think they should have started releasing it a few months ago and should
have had the final volume hit stores the same day as ME2. But I guess
this way they can keep the ME interest going with the comic ending in
April and the novel releasing in the summer.

[justinprince]

Da Mecca wrote...

Indeed.


Liara's case is just sad. She's changed so much she's not the same woman my Shep fell in love with anymore.

Consumed by anger, driven by hate. I walked away from her office truly stunned at what she's become. She said she wouldn't become her mother but she's so close it's not even funny.

from what I gained from conversing with her and also reading the first issue of Mass Effect Redemption, it looks like Liara will be facing some dark moments ahead. It was revealed in the first issue of the comic that...

*spoilers ahead*


the Shadow Broker was working with the Collectors and a companion of hers (I assume the Drell she met) would have been lost because of it, seeing how she ended up I am more so looking forward to seeing the path she took to get there.

[Thompson family]

Does Miranda have anything to say for herself in all this? My understanding is she helped broker the deal that got Liari in this mess.

[Badpie]

Eradyn wrote...

Considering how BW wrote the ME1 LI's dialogue and interactions, these characters would have no right to be upset with you if you started up a new relationship in ME2.  None.  They didn't stand by you, after all, so they have no right.

I'm wondering if they would even be mad.  But I still can't imagine it would make for a happy go lucky no angst reunion together.  If anything it will probably be one of those things where they understand but still don't have to like it.  That could work both ways for Shepard too.  Sure, Ash or Kaidan mayb have moved on and dated while he was dead and he can't get angry, but that doesn't mean he'd be happy about it.

Modifié par Badpie, 28 janvier 2010 - 09:59 .

[Thompson family]

Mucho_Nacho wrote...

On another note, at least now Kaidan can truly live up to the mantle of being Carth, what with "betrayal" and all that stuff. Ah, the memories…

Too true. Too true.

[Rathias0114]

Anyone else notice that you can call your LI up to your cabin and sit with them or lay in bed with them?



Know it works for Miranda - not sure about everyone else.

[Corti78]

Rathias0114 wrote...

Anyone else notice that you can call your LI up to your cabin and sit with them or lay in bed with them?

Know it works for Miranda - not sure about everyone else.

Works for the ME2 LIs and if you have no LI then Kelly comes up. If loyal to ME1 LI then there is no option.

[ourbluebird]

I'm pretty sure the LI plot from ME1 is supposed to carry on into ME3 - it's not actually over, it's just going through a rocky patch right now~. I assume if you don't pursue other romances, everything will work itself out.



I agree that it really is an engaging part of the story. I was completely tempted to move on after Kaiden yelled at me, but I'm going to hang in there. At least on my first play through.

[ranzarok]

I think all of those players who "betrayed" their ME1 LI are going to be soooooorrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyy come ME3.







This story and game is a trilogy. ME has always been about your actions and reactions and the consequences associated with them. I would not be surprised at all to find out that if you stick to your original LI it will pay dividends for your Shep in the end.