269 réponses à ce sujet

[Badpie]

Oops.  Double post.

Modifié par Badpie, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:16 .

[Thompson family]

Badpie wrote...

Ashley knows nothing of what Liara did for Shepard.  Ash is in the dark, completely ignorant of everything.  She is confused, hurt, suspicious.  When she heard that Shepard might be alive, and that he hadn't contacted her she probably just assumed that he'd been alive that whole time and hadn't contacted her.  Her hurt over this was justified.  As was her suspicion.  If Shepard was alive this whole time and didn't contact HER of all people, then maybe he ISN'T the Shepard she used to know.  And even when he tried to explain there were already so many things running through her it didn't make a difference.  Ash got hit with a wall of "WTF" in that moment.  And she handled it in the exact way that Ashley would.  She let her emotions get the better of her, which she immediately regretted after.  I've no doubt that she still loves him very much even after her attempts to move on.

You make a valid point, Badpie. And Liara is a powerful Asari. However, I'll point out that Liara did something and saved Shepard's life. That's got to count for something.

Modifié par Thompson family, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:28 .

[Badpie]

Thompson family wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Ashley knows nothing of what Liara did for Shepard.  Ash is in the dark, completely ignorant of everything.  She is confused, hurt, suspicious.  When she heard that Shepard might be alive, and that he hadn't contacted her she probably just assumed that he'd been alive that whole time and hadn't contacted her.  Her hurt over this was justified.  As was her suspicion.  If Shepard was alive this whole time and didn't contact HER of all people, then maybe he ISN'T the Shepard she used to know.  And even when he tried to explain there were already so many things running through her it didn't make a difference.  Ash got hit with a wall of "WTF" in that moment.  And she handled it in the exact way that Ashley would.  She let her emotions get the better of her, which she immediately regretted after.  I've no doubt that she still loves him very much even after her attempts to move on.

You make a valid point, Badpie. And Liara is a powerful Asari. However, I'll point out that Liara did something and saved Shepard's life. That's got to count for something.

Absolutely.  I'm not arguing who loves Shepard more or anything.  But clearly somehow Liara came across this information about Shepard.  Ash didn't get that same info (not even from Liara) so she just had to assume and accept that he was dead.  There's be no reason to try to "save" someonen if you were sure they were dead.  If Ash had come across this same information regarding Shepard that Liara did she would have tried to do SOMETHING.

[Thompson family]

Badpie wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Ashley knows nothing of what Liara did for Shepard.  Ash is in the dark, completely ignorant of everything.  She is confused, hurt, suspicious.  When she heard that Shepard might be alive, and that he hadn't contacted her she probably just assumed that he'd been alive that whole time and hadn't contacted her.  Her hurt over this was justified.  As was her suspicion.  If Shepard was alive this whole time and didn't contact HER of all people, then maybe he ISN'T the Shepard she used to know.  And even when he tried to explain there were already so many things running through her it didn't make a difference.  Ash got hit with a wall of "WTF" in that moment.  And she handled it in the exact way that Ashley would.  She let her emotions get the better of her, which she immediately regretted after.  I've no doubt that she still loves him very much even after her attempts to move on.

You make a valid point, Badpie. And Liara is a powerful Asari. However, I'll point out that Liara did something and saved Shepard's life. That's got to count for something.

Absolutely.  I'm not arguing who loves Shepard more or anything.  But clearly somehow Liara came across this information about Shepard.  Ash didn't get that same info (not even from Liara) so she just had to assume and accept that he was dead.  There's be no reason to try to "save" someonen if you were sure they were dead.  If Ash had come across this same information regarding Shepard that Liara did she would have tried to do SOMETHING.

That's true. I think she would have contacted Liara if she couldn't do something herself.

[Badpie]

Man. What a punch in the gut that would be to think the person you thought loved you was alive for two years and hadn't tried to contact you. That would be devastating.

[Corti78]

Thompson family wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Ashley knows nothing of what Liara did for Shepard.  Ash is in the dark, completely ignorant of everything.  She is confused, hurt, suspicious.  When she heard that Shepard might be alive, and that he hadn't contacted her she probably just assumed that he'd been alive that whole time and hadn't contacted her.  Her hurt over this was justified.  As was her suspicion.  If Shepard was alive this whole time and didn't contact HER of all people, then maybe he ISN'T the Shepard she used to know.  And even when he tried to explain there were already so many things running through her it didn't make a difference.  Ash got hit with a wall of "WTF" in that moment.  And she handled it in the exact way that Ashley would.  She let her emotions get the better of her, which she immediately regretted after.  I've no doubt that she still loves him very much even after her attempts to move on.

You make a valid point, Badpie. And Liara is a powerful Asari. However, I'll point out that Liara did something and saved Shepard's life. That's got to count for something.

Absolutely.  I'm not arguing who loves Shepard more or anything.  But clearly somehow Liara came across this information about Shepard.  Ash didn't get that same info (not even from Liara) so she just had to assume and accept that he was dead.  There's be no reason to try to "save" someonen if you were sure they were dead.  If Ash had come across this same information regarding Shepard that Liara did she would have tried to do SOMETHING.

That's true. I think she would have contacted Liara if she couldn't do something herself.

Judging from the comic it seems TIM may have been leaking the info to Liara without revealing who it was from. He most likely didn't want to inform someone who was still working for the Alliance especially after the alliance had already declared Shepard dead. Having an alliance soldier still looking after that would make it look suspicious on what the Alliance said and possibly make the SB more cautious, making him harder to find. So TIM went to the person who was close to Shep but had no affiliation with the Alliance or Spectres.

Modifié par Corti78, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:36 .

[Thompson family]

Corti78 wrote...



Judging from the comic it seems TIM may have been leaking the info to Liara without revealing who it was from. He most likely didn't want to inform someone who was still working for the Alliance especially after the alliance had already declared Shepard dead. Having an alliance soldier still looking after that would make it look suspicious on what the Alliance said and possibly make the SB more cautious, making him harder to find. So TIM went to the person who was close to Shep but had no affiliation with the Alliance or Spectres.

Excellent point. Ashley's not just Alliance, she's Alliance to the bone — with no desire at all to give anybody any reason to believe that the Wiliams' family is anything but loyal. She'd turn the info over to the Alliance, or at least Anderson, in a heartbeat.

The plot thickens.

Modifié par Thompson family, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:41 .

[Promethean 47]

I agree with the OP.

I must say though, I think Tali (and I suspect Garrus for femshep) has an unfair advantage.  Tali and shep have history, the notion of a real romance between them just feels a lot more natural as a result.

Also, Tali benefits by comparison because whereas Ashley just freaks out at you about how hard it was, Tali sticks with you - and you stick with her.  She believed you when you came back and were working for cerberus.  You were the only one who spoke up for her when she was threatened with exile/treason.  That's a well written and plausible romance. 

As for Liara, I think if you do the extra quests for her and see just how much she did for you after your 'death' - she's not the same as Ash.  Her personality has changed for the darker, but she's not some fickle girl, she's someone who's devoted to you and who paid a price for that, and is trying to make amends with what that price cost others before being able to come back to you. 

Just my thoughts.

[ratzerman]

Emperor Mars wrote...
I think a dlc involving the ME1 LI's would be a great addition and I would happily pay for additional quests involving them.

Same here!  I doubt it'll happen, but I'd gladly pay for DLC that features your ME1 love interest.

As far as the whole "Liara talking like her mother" thing goes.... I think she's doing the Asari version of "picturing the audience in their underwear."  Liara is still somewhat clueless when it comes to dealing with people.  She probably isn't very good at intimidating people.  But her mother sure as heck was.  So when she needs to be forceful, she imitates her mother.  Sure, it's a bit creepy.  But it makes sense.

[Thompson family]

Promethean 47 wrote...

I agree with the OP.

I must say though, I think Tali (and I suspect Garrus for femshep) has an unfair advantage.  Tali and shep have history, the notion of a real romance between them just feels a lot more natural as a result.

Also, Tali benefits by comparison because whereas Ashley just freaks out at you about how hard it was, Tali sticks with you - and you stick with her.  She believed you when you came back and were working for cerberus.  You were the only one who spoke up for her when she was threatened with exile/treason.  That's a well written and plausible romance. 

As for Liara, I think if you do the extra quests for her and see just how much she did for you after your 'death' - she's not the same as Ash.  Her personality has changed for the darker, but she's not some fickle girl, she's someone who's devoted to you and who paid a price for that, and is trying to make amends with what that price cost others before being able to come back to you. 

Just my thoughts.

I was going to run to Tali before replaying that scene with Liara.

[PSUHammer]

Hammer6767 wrote...

My Shep's LI was Ashley...I am looking at it
like he's Indiana Jones. He gets a new LI in the sequel and it's back
to Ash (i.e. Marion) for the finale...

Marion:  "I am sure there were others"
Indy:  "There were a few, but they all had the same problem..."
Marion:  "What's that?"
Indy:  "They weren't you, honey."

I can see that exchange happening with your ME1 LI in ME3.


lol

Modifié par Hammer6767, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:14 .

[PSUHammer]

double post

Modifié par Hammer6767, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:14 .

[Badpie]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

My Shep's LI was Ashley...I am looking at it
like he's Indiana Jones. He gets a new LI in the sequel and it's back
to Ash (i.e. Marion) for the finale...

Marion:  "I am sure there were others"
Indy:  "There were a few, but they all had the same problem..."
Marion:  "What's that?"
Indy:  "They weren't you, honey."

I can see that exchange happening with your ME1 LI in ME3.


lol

*swoon* 
LOL

[screwoffreg]

After beating the game, all the talk about Ashley and Liara is pointless. Tali stuck with my character in ME 1, loved me ME 2, and I am almost 100 percent sure, like Garrus, will be a character who will stick with Shepherd until the Reapers are dead or the Universe is destroyed. Guess who I am choosing as my main romance?

[Mox Ruuga]

screwoffreg wrote...

After beating the game, all the talk about Ashley and Liara is pointless. Tali stuck with my character in ME 1, loved me ME 2, and I am almost 100 percent sure, like Garrus, will be a character who will stick with Shepherd until the Reapers are dead or the Universe is destroyed. Guess who I am choosing as my main romance?

Tali... Who is-- Oh you mean the dead quarian! But she died in the suicide mission, so how can she be in ME3?

[screwoffreg]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

After beating the game, all the talk about Ashley and Liara is pointless. Tali stuck with my character in ME 1, loved me ME 2, and I am almost 100 percent sure, like Garrus, will be a character who will stick with Shepherd until the Reapers are dead or the Universe is destroyed. Guess who I am choosing as my main romance?

Tali... Who is-- Oh you mean the dead quarian! But she died in the suicide mission, so how can she be in ME3?

I don't know, how will your Shepherd live after mine enters the alternate timeline and has the Reapers rend his flesh limb from limb?  

Modifié par screwoffreg, 29 janvier 2010 - 07:00 .

[Bann Duncan]

Thompson family wrote...

Bann Duncan wrote...

I'm wondering if we can romance ME love interests in ME3 who we didn't romance before. For example, my main Shepard romanced Ashley in ME (choosing her in the confrontation scene with Liara) but after seeing both of them in ME2, I'd honestly want to change that choice to Liara. She seems to have a lot more trust in and care for him than Ashley despite the email (and presumably Kaiden for FemSheps) in the same position.

I just wish I could have talked to her about the Prothean/Collectors thing after that segment of the game; I flew to Illium hoping for that option but I didn't get it.

Let me get this straight:

Liara amassed massive debt tracking your body down at great risk to life and limb, making deals with the devils (Shadow Broker and Cerberus) along the way to give you a longshot chance at life — whether you were her lover in ME1 or not?!?! She does this even while fearing you'd hate her for it if you wake up and find you were in the clutches of Cerberus, which (in my character's case) wiped out your whole unit at Akuze?

While Ashley — after you chose to let her live on Virmere and even if you were her lover — gives you a bawling out for not calling while you were dead and lectures you about working with Cerberus?

Man, I guess we know who’s love is true in this story. Let’s hope ME3 gives those poor unfortunate souls who fell for Ashley a shot to go with the girl who really loves Shepard.

That's what I'm saying. Liara has proved herself to truly care for Shepard, having sacrificed so much and having put herself at great risk whereas Ashley is too narrow-minded to have any faith in him and has loyalty to the Alliance over Shepard (which is especially sad given what we know from Jacob and the engineers of how the Alliance began tearing down Shepard)

[asaiasai]

As i play only female characters in the game i was extremely disappointed in the female romance options. My FemShep stayed celibate not by choice but by game design. To think that this action will have effects in ME3, where Liara thinks i remained true, where as how she turned out is a great disappointment. This really ruined the continuity of the story for me, ME romance, ME2 no romance, ME3 romance who cares. Might as well leave out any romance options since the developers are going to decide who you can romance, for no apparent reason, and then apply consequences. Keep removing any character depth from the game or take it up a notch and allow the player to have the freedom to choose thier LI, who ever it is. I understand that it is your story but as i play it, it becomes MY story and should reflect what is important to each individual player. Or continue the slide towards the typical SAFE shooter and just make the experience a linear one.



Asai

[DK_DOOM]

I really did enjoy what BioWare did with maintaining ME2's love interests while still keeping the originals on the table. They don't go with you because they can't. They just need time, like any real person would need time. I was one of the few who did not find it outraging that you don't have your previous LI on-hand at all times to re-spark the fire, because I think that's just too soon. There isn't anything to regain if nothing is lost, which is why in Mass Effect 2, your original love interest is lost. And I will assume BioWare does a genius job in regaining that, should it be your choice for Mass Effect 3.

[Badpie]

DK_DOOM wrote...

I really did enjoy what BioWare did with maintaining ME2's love interests while still keeping the originals on the table. They don't go with you because they can't. They just need time, like any real person would need time. I was one of the few who did not find it outraging that you don't have your previous LI on-hand at all times to re-spark the fire, because I think that's just too soon. There isn't anything to regain if nothing is lost, which is why in Mass Effect 2, your original love interest is lost. And I will assume BioWare does a genius job in regaining that, should it be your choice for Mass Effect 3.

Emphasis mine.  Right on. 

[LucidStrike]

I think BioWare is so proud of their new characters that the wanted to sever our emotional ties to the old ones, at least for ME2.

Modifié par LucidStrike, 30 janvier 2010 - 03:54 .

[Schneidend]

People who didn't like how the LI's were handled in ME2 are clearly opposed to character development and compelling writing.

[MICHELLE7]

Badpie wrote...

Indeed. While the ME2 characters are all very compelling and so are their romances, I still think the ME1 love story is far more interesting and wrought with drama and conflict that makes you feel angry, hurt, vindictive sad and hopeful all at the same time. It's a very mature direction Bioware has gone with this I think.

....all my respect for Bioware in this area will fly out the window though if ME3 comes around and the conclusion to this love story isnt' epic.

Yes, I would say that everything does hinge on how they finish it in ME3...we can only wait and see. But for me personally I think it already starts working towards that conclusion with them including the picture scene just before the ending of the main quest if you stay loyal...showing that Shep still cared made all the difference to me. It was kind of a small reward and a promise of things to come. More powerful overall than the scene on Horizon by a long shot. It had a lot of emotional impact.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Schneidend wrote...

People who didn't like how the LI's were handled in ME2 are clearly opposed to character development and compelling writing.

Pretty much.