269 réponses à ce sujet

[Badpie]

I thought I'd be disappointed with how they handled it, but actually it was brilliant and it just makes me more excited to see Ash in ME3.

[LucidStrike]

Schneidend wrote...

People who didn't like how the LI's were handled in ME2 are clearly opposed to character development and compelling writing.

You have a valid point, although you're interecting your own perceptions into it. Whether or not something is compelling is a subjective matter, and character developement can be done poorly.

Modifié par LucidStrike, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:09 .

[StolenThunder]

Schneidend wrote...

People who didn't like how the LI's were handled in ME2 are clearly opposed to character development and compelling writing.

Or maybe they're opposed to dying fish, giant-chicken people, and boring Cerberus operatives (at least from a fem!Shep perspective).

I didn't find Thane all that interesting of a character. I mean, his whole assassin gig was pretty cool and it sucks that he was a terrible father, but he didn't really evoke any emotions in me other than a diluted sence of pity for his abandoned child.

Garrus was almost exactly the same person if you didn't romance him and even at that, I was weired out by the prospect of sleeping with a half chicken-half dinosaur so I didn't go any farther with it.

As for Jacob, he was more dull than Kaidan was, so I basically only got tot he point with him that I did his loyalty quest.

LIara on the other hand made me mad, sad, sympathetic, hopeful, and devistated all at the same time IN ONE CONVERSATION. No other character (except maaybe Tali) was able to do that for me in Mass Effect 2.


Edit: With that being said, Liara better have an incredbile role in Mass Effect 3. I don't think I'd be able to stomach the thought of all that ruined potential in her personal story. Plus...I really wanna find out who her dad is lol.

Modifié par StolenThunder, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:19 .

[Schneidend]

StolenThunder wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

People who didn't like how the LI's were handled in ME2 are clearly opposed to character development and compelling writing.

Or maybe they're opposed to dying fish, giant=chicken people, and boring Cerberus operatives (at least from a fem!Shep perspective).

I didn't find Thane all that interesting of a character. I mean, his whole assassin gig was pretty cool and it sucks that he was a terrible father, but he didn't really evoke any emotions in me other than a diluted sence of pity for his abandoned child.

Garrus was almost exactly the same person if you didn't romance him and even at that, I was weired out by the prospect of sleeping with a half chicken-half dinosaur so I didn't go any farther with it.

As for Jacob, he was more dull than Kaidan was, so I basically only got tot he point with him that I did his loyalty quest.

LIara on the other hand made me mad, sad, sympathetic, hopeful, and devistated all at the same time IN ONE CONVERSATION. No other character (except maaybe Tali) was able to do that for me in Mass Effect 2.

I liked all the ME2 squaddies, but I wasn't even referring to any of them. I merely resent this idea people have that your ME1 LI should jump into your arms at the sight of Not Really Dead Working For Cerberus Shep. Did you honestly think Kaiden or Ashley would be okay with your Cerberus affiliation, and losing you for two years wouldn't affect them? Did you honestly think traveling the Terminus Systems, fighting the Shadow Broker, and losing you for two years wouldn't change Liara?

[StolenThunder]

Schneidend wrote...

I liked all the ME2 squaddies, but I wasn't even referring to any of them. I merely resent this idea people have that your ME1 LI should jump into your arms at the sight of Not Really Dead Working For Cerberus Shep. Did you honestly think Kaiden or Ashley would be okay with your Cerberus affiliation, and losing you for two years wouldn't affect them? Did you honestly think traveling the Terminus Systems, fighting the Shadow Broker, and losing you for two years wouldn't change Liara?

You can't see where the resentment is coming from, though? An email and no chance to reiterate to Ash/Kaidan than none of the Cerberus stuff you're doing is your choice isn't something people who have waited for this particular aspect of the game were expecting and at that, some could argue that it wasn't even done well. The Ashley and Kaidan lines were almost interchangeable, but at least the emails had a more 'personalized' feel to them.

Same thing could be said for Liara. I understand her feelings completely and I think that in her shoes, I'd probably do the same thing. However, that doesn't mean I'm satisfied as the consumer that they've basically chosen to Edmund Dantes Liara who offers no new dialog through the entire course of the game because she's so hell-bent on killing the SB.

I'm not saying I dislike that they've put some dynamics into the original love interests, but if they really wanted to shoot for this whole "rough patch" thing, they could have taken it one step further and actually had more conflicts with them in between the story line. You know, the sexually frustrated kind that did NOT culminate in a love scene (because that would have indeed been seriously cheesy).The devs would have been able to satisfy those who sincerely wanted to continue to interact with their ME1 LIs while also reiterating the fact this is NOT the point in their relationship for rainbows and butterflies.


Edit, typos.

Modifié par StolenThunder, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:30 .

[mcvxiii]

I did play through a romance option in ME1 to get the achievement and I never got that any of them were in love with Shepard. Infatuated yes but in love? I didn't see that. I found the most meaningful relationships in that game to be those with whom you didn't have a romance with.

I like the changes that Liara under went. For me it made her character far more interesting then the "and one time a asari band camp..." and pseudo-bunny boiler she was in ME1. I never cared for the Ashley character, I found her to be grating. I actually liked Kaiden a lot but he wasn't available for me to romance.

Modifié par mcvxiii, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:38 .

[Litos456]

I hope... well I'm sure that ME2 LIs won't be like that. Or at the very least Garrus and Tali. First of all, you hadn't died for 2 years so they're not going anywhere and if they try you can be like "Hey honey, where do you think you're going?". Garrus and Tali have been around since forever so they won't leave. I WON'T LET THEM

[Mox Ruuga]

StolenThunder wrote...

You can't see where the resentment is coming from, though? An email and no chance to reiterate to Ash/Kaidan than none of the Cerberus stuff you're doing is your choice isn't something people who have waited for this particular aspect of the game were expecting and at that, some could argue that it wasn't even done well. The Ashley and Kaidan lines were almost interchangeable, but at least the emails had a more 'personalized' feel to them.

Same thing could be said for Liara. I understand her feelings completely and I think that in her shoes, I'd probably do the same thing. However, that doesn't mean I'm satisfied as the consumer that they've basically chosen to Edmund Dantes Liara who offers no new dialog through the entire course of the game because she's so hell-bent on killing the SB.

I'm not saying I dislike that they've put some dynamics into the original love interests, but if they really wanted to shoot for this whole "rough patch" thing, they could have taken it one step further and actually had more conflicts with them in between the story line. You know, the sexually frustrated kind that did NOT culminate in a love scene (because that would have indeed been seriously cheesy).The devs would have been able to satisfy those who sincerely wanted to continue to interact with their ME1 LIs while also reiterating the fact this is NOT the point in their relationship for rainbows and butterflies.


Edit, typos.

Bah, he's a Tali fan, so he's happy as a clam right now. Oodles and oodles of Talimancer fanservice in Mass Effect 2. Thank God you can kill the chicken legged little varmint off now, unlike in ME1. That alone tells me what to expect of her role in ME3. Or... what not to expect.

Would be interesting to see the reaction, should Tali's role in ME3 consist of wailing out Shep and then sending a remorseful email... I bet they wouldn't be quite as "understanding" as our friend here.

[Schneidend]

StolenThunder wrote...

You can't see where the resentment is coming from, though? An email and no chance to reiterate to Ash/Kaidan than none of the Cerberus stuff you're doing is your choice isn't something people who have waited for this particular aspect of the game were expecting and at that, some could argue that it wasn't even done well. The Ashley and Kaidan lines were almost interchangeable, but at least the emails had a more 'personalized' feel to them.

You get the chance to tell them all that, but they just aren't willing to listen. They feel their trust has been betrayed so completely they're not even sure you are who you claim to be, and unfortunately Charm/Intimidate cannot solve every sensitive situation.

Same thing could be said for Liara. I understand her feelings completely and I think that in her shoes, I'd probably do the same thing. However, that doesn't mean I'm satisfied as the consumer that they've basically chosen to Edmund Dantes Liara who offers no new dialog through the entire course of the game because she's so hell-bent on killing the SB.

Liara has made a decision to do something for Shepard's sake that she thinks is best. She's made the decision over the course of two years. Convincing her otherwise would be like convincing Shep not to undertake the suicide mission. It just wouldn't fit the character.

I'm not saying I dislike that they've put some dynamics into the original love interests, but if they really wanted to shoot for this whole "rough patch" thing, they could have taken it one step further and actually had more conflicts with them in between the story line. You know, the sexually frustrated kind that did NOT culminate in a love scene (because that would have indeed been seriously cheesy).The devs would have been able to satisfy those who sincerely wanted to continue to interact with their ME1 LIs while also reiterating the fact this is NOT the point in their relationship for rainbows and butterflies.

Agreed, there's always room for more. But, what was presented should be satisfactory to anybody who really understands the characters and understand the fact that well-rounded characters change as stories progress. This resentment is the same sort of nonsense that compells people to write ridiculous fan fiction that force their favorite characters into relationships.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Litos456 wrote...

I hope... well I'm sure that ME2 LIs won't be like that. Or at the very least Garrus and Tali. First of all, you hadn't died for 2 years so they're not going anywhere and if they try you can be like "Hey honey, where do you think you're going?". Garrus and Tali have been around since forever so they won't leave. I WON'T LET THEM

With how far back Garrus and my Shepard go, and then dealing with Sedonis and having Garrus lead both the Fire Team and the Diversion Squad, and leaving NO ONE behind, I'll be pissed if he does not return. He's the perfect chaotic good companion to go along with my neutral/chaotic good Separd. He's my second-in-command as far as I am concerned. And Tali simply cannot be ditched. There is too much history going on between her and Shepard after the trial and doing her loyalty mission (not to mention her being in ME 1).

[Sbri]

Here's my biggest problem with what happened. They were right to be pissed that there was no contact once you came back to life. Playing as a Spacer, it also sucked that I got a message from my Mom saying, "Your alive and you don't call?!?!?" The one thing I would have liked would to have been able to send some sort of, "I'm alive, can't give details, but 'm missing you."

And it seems to me that the Shadow Broker made sure you would meet Kaiden or Ash under the worst possible circumstances. He all but admitted that he let that fact that you were working with Cerberus slip to them, so that you could go on with nothing holding you back. I darn near quit right there.

[Korsriddare]

Yeap, it seems quite obvious the Illusive Man is trying to sabotage the relationship, he even asked post-mission "Are you ready to put your past relationships behind you?" or something to that effect.

[JamieCOTC]

pacer90 wrote...

Da Mecca wrote...

Indeed.


Liara's case is just sad. She's changed so much she's not the same woman my Shep fell in love with anymore.

Consumed by anger, driven by hate. I walked away from her office truly stunned at what she's become. She said she wouldn't become her mother but she's so close it's not even funny.

Backstory for me3 if i ever heard one.

"I'm going to fix you by killing the person who upsets you." says paragon shep. (seems to be a trend of gaining loyalty)

"Lets go raid orphanages together with your new personality" says renegade shep.

I was tempted to quit on her, but I didn't. 

[Joshd21]

pacer90 wrote...

Remember emotionally engaging? Well being pissed off is an emotion too. You basically get shot down by Liara/Kaiden/Ashley pretty hard while you are shown all these other women/men/Thane during your trip.

You're mad at you're ex, and there's a pile of opporunities sitting around you. I thought this was one of the most clever things they've ever done.

How do you assume, I know how clever Bioware is?

"Checks room for bugs"

[glacier1701]

Bebbe777 wrote...

I feel like this. Ash knew my Shep better than anyone else, she knew my stanch in the galaxy (Paragon) yet she cant see why Im working for Cerberus. Sure, she sends a email and apologize but their is not much emotion in it. My hope was that she could trust Shep just as Anderson, Garrus, Joker and Tali did.

 Yup pretty much how I felt. Even more disappointed in that you really could not get through to her that for you its been at most a couple of weeks. She might have had it rough but hey I DIED. Thats not an easy thing to get over. Even with the disappointment in how this was handled I didnt finalise any romance. Got them all to the point of actually thinking they stood a chance but by the end only Tali and Jack were still waiting on an answer from me. Not that I want to go with either of them so may close them off as well or just ignore them.

Modifié par glacier1701, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:13 .

[kennyme2]

When I saw Liara, the first thing I said was, "Who the hell are you?!" At my screen. No joke, it was the most shocking moment in gaming I have ever experienced.

[Elessie]

StolenThunder wrote...

Edit: With that being said, Liara better have an incredbile role in Mass Effect 3. I don't think I'd be able to stomach the thought of all that ruined potential in her personal story. Plus...I really wanna find out who her dad is lol.

I'm going with the bartender Matriarch.  She said she had a kid with another asari and was the father.

[MICHELLE7]

StolenThunder wrote...


I'm not saying I dislike that they've put some dynamics into the original love interests, but if they really wanted to shoot for this whole "rough patch" thing, they could have taken it one step further and actually had more conflicts with them in between the story line. You know, the sexually frustrated kind that did NOT culminate in a love scene (because that would have indeed been seriously cheesy).The devs would have been able to satisfy those who sincerely wanted to continue to interact with their ME1 LIs while also reiterating the fact this is NOT the point in their relationship for rainbows and butterflies.


Edit, typos.

I can agree with that...I would have loved to have had several more scenes with Kaidan/Ash. And as for Liara...her dialog just seemed short...even when you did her quest and got her explanation it just seemed full of one line answers to me. 

As I said in my previous post...I found the end if you stay loyal to be a nice touch but I still would have liked to have more. I just hope the Bioware makes them recruitable next time so we can interact with them. I didn't like any of the squaddies this time around with the exception of Samara and Mordin(Grunt was okay but he's no Wrex). And if they didn't show up in ME3 it wouldn't bother me in the least.

As for Jacob being boring...if he salutes one more time I'll scream...wish I had the option to slap him.

[NKato]

Elessie wrote...

StolenThunder wrote...

Edit: With that being said, Liara better have an incredbile role in Mass Effect 3. I don't think I'd be able to stomach the thought of all that ruined potential in her personal story. Plus...I really wanna find out who her dad is lol.

I'm going with the bartender Matriarch.  She said she had a kid with another asari and was the father.

And she had said it didn't work out.

[NKato]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

StolenThunder wrote...


I'm not saying I dislike that they've put some dynamics into the original love interests, but if they really wanted to shoot for this whole "rough patch" thing, they could have taken it one step further and actually had more conflicts with them in between the story line. You know, the sexually frustrated kind that did NOT culminate in a love scene (because that would have indeed been seriously cheesy).The devs would have been able to satisfy those who sincerely wanted to continue to interact with their ME1 LIs while also reiterating the fact this is NOT the point in their relationship for rainbows and butterflies.


Edit, typos.

I can agree with that...I would have loved to have had several more scenes with Kaidan/Ash. And as for Liara...her dialog just seemed short...even when you did her quest and got her explanation it just seemed full of one line answers to me. 

As I said in my previous post...I found the end if you stay loyal to be a nice touch but I still would have liked to have more. I just hope the Bioware makes them recruitable next time so we can interact with them. I didn't like any of the squaddies this time around with the exception of Samara and Mordin(Grunt was okay but he's no Wrex). And if they didn't show up in ME3 it wouldn't bother me in the least.

As for Jacob being boring...if he salutes one more time I'll scream...wish I had the option to slap him.

The Lineup I want to see in Mass Effect 3, assuming none of them die from old age:

Mordin Solus (He's already old enough as it is)
Samara
Tali'Zorah
Garrus Vakarian
Urdnot Wrex
Legion (Talking with Legion was awesome.)
Liara T'soni

That's about it. Ashely can stay out. 

[StolenThunder]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

I can agree with that...I would have loved to have had several more scenes with Kaidan/Ash. And as for Liara...her dialog just seemed short...even when you did her quest and got her explanation it just seemed full of one line answers to me. 

As I said in my previous post...I found the end if you stay loyal to be a nice touch but I still would have liked to have more. I just hope the Bioware makes them recruitable next time so we can interact with them. I didn't like any of the squaddies this time around with the exception of Samara and Mordin(Grunt was okay but he's no Wrex). And if they didn't show up in ME3 it wouldn't bother me in the least.

As for Jacob being boring...if he salutes one more time I'll scream...wish I had the option to slap him.

As much as I wanted to stay true to Liara during my first playthrough, I have to admit that Samara was some SERIOUS temptation even though she turns you down at the end. I'm doing a renegade run and I think that I'm gonna persue it even though I know at the end I'll feel SEVERELY cheated. Oh, well.

And yeah, Jacob's saluting thing was amusing at first, then more and more irritating as the story went on. What bugged me was that it was him and NOT Miranda Shepard's second in command that would debrief after every mission. I kept on thinking, dude, who the eff do you think you are? 

What I'm hoping for is that during the course of the DLC releases, we'll see some more ME1 love interest stuff. I dunno, to me, it all sort of seemed too cut out and that they were going to tease us some before the last game is released.

[KealaFerret]

Sbri wrote...

And it seems to me that the Shadow Broker made sure you would meet Kaiden or Ash under the worst possible circumstances. He all but admitted that he let that fact that you were working with Cerberus slip to them, so that you could go on with nothing holding you back. I darn near quit right there.

This. I think this is a really good point. There's a lot of manipulation going on in this game, and it adds a lot to the texture of the story. It really drives home how screwed up the whole situation is.

[MICHELLE7]

StolenThunder wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

I can agree with that...I would have loved to have had several more scenes with Kaidan/Ash. And as for Liara...her dialog just seemed short...even when you did her quest and got her explanation it just seemed full of one line answers to me. 

As I said in my previous post...I found the end if you stay loyal to be a nice touch but I still would have liked to have more. I just hope the Bioware makes them recruitable next time so we can interact with them. I didn't like any of the squaddies this time around with the exception of Samara and Mordin(Grunt was okay but he's no Wrex). And if they didn't show up in ME3 it wouldn't bother me in the least.

As for Jacob being boring...if he salutes one more time I'll scream...wish I had the option to slap him.

As much as I wanted to stay true to Liara during my first playthrough, I have to admit that Samara was some SERIOUS temptation even though she turns you down at the end. I'm doing a renegade run and I think that I'm gonna persue it even though I know at the end I'll feel SEVERELY cheated. Oh, well.

And yeah, Jacob's saluting thing was amusing at first, then more and more irritating as the story went on. What bugged me was that it was him and NOT Miranda Shepard's second in command that would debrief after every mission. I kept on thinking, dude, who the eff do you think you are? 

What I'm hoping for is that during the course of the DLC releases, we'll see some more ME1 love interest stuff. I dunno, to me, it all sort of seemed too cut out and that they were going to tease us some before the last game is released.

I doubt we'll get any ME LI on  DLC...if they didn't put anything extra in after the main quest(like Fable 2 did with their mansion quests) I doubt they'll break stride. They're gonna want to wrap it up in one shot. I just hope we can interact...I don't want to be stuck with just a bunch of cutscenes because we stayed loyal.

Samara was easily the most attractive of the bunch but I think she can be replaced by her daughter if you so choose...then she morphs to look just like Samara.

[TheLostGenius]

 I had a romance with liara in ME1. When I met her in ME2 they make out for a bit. This happen to anyone else? Must have been a perfect romance. Was disappointed that she gives you an errand quest and then their is no more involvement with her. Felt like their was a lot more that could have been done with ME2, seems too small.

[Nightvision91]

I imported my ME1 character who had a relationship with Ashley. I had planned to stay loyal especially when you have the picture of your LI in your cabin. However once I ran into her I knew it was over, and went to Miranda.......only to see the email. Going back to the Cabin I saw the picture of Ash had been turned down. So I left Ash for Miranda, and feel sort of bad haha.