20 réponses à ce sujet

[Ackillez]

Disclaimer: I haven't actually played through the game, so if you get some unexpected upgrades at some point late into the game I haven't taken that into account. Also my opinions could be misguided and erroneous for this very reason. Do not try this at home.

So i've been looking for ways to make my vanguard the baby eating monster he's really supposed to be. I've come up with a few build examples:

#1: The Team Leader

Dump stats: Cryo rounds and inferno rounds
Bonus skill: Barrier

The idea here is that you rely on a teammate with a squad ammo power (Garrus or Jack would work best) to provide you with an ammo upgrade and specialise in biotics yourself. Remember that you start with a point in inferno rounds so you'll need a respec at some point, with that in mind you can upgrade inferno ammo to level 2 or 3 for some added punch until you get to the point where you can get good squad ammo upgrades. After getting the squad ammo, team performance will be maximised by bringing someone without an ammo power of their own as the third member.

Barrier is an excellent bonus skill offering some much-needed protection for the vulnerable charging vanguard. It gives you some crucial seconds to shotgun your charge victim while under fire, or allow your other biotics time to recharge so you can use charge again to get safe or shockwave for some disabling while you find cover.

Skill progression and layout: Charge is a priority. Barrier needs lvl2-3 before it is useful, focus on it when you get it. Probably save upgrading the ranged biotics for later, leave out pull entirely until the rest is done. Would go area charge, destroyer, heavy barrier.

#2: The Suicide

Dump stats: Cryo rounds and inferno rounds
Bonus skill: Warp ammo or armour piercing ammo

Much like the above, except that with an ammo skill of your own you have a lot of flexibility in your team, and higher personal damage output. However, no barrier means more danger for you, and you have to be much more careful with the exit strategy of your charges. A good vanguard should be able to kill most lone enemies without dying by relying on sheer shotgun damage and charging (repeatedly if necessary). Groups will pose a problem. I recommend the heavy charge instead of area charge here as you should be more careful about charging into groups.

#3: The Pyro

Dump stats: Cryo rounds and pull
Bonus skill: Barrier

This guy is self-sufficient on the ammo side with inferno rounds, and has the barrier protection as a bonus skill. While I consider inferno ammo inferior to both warp and AP, it is very useful against enemies with their protections down. You will be very effective against organics who rely on shielding for defense: You shotgun is good at shredding shields, and once the shields are down your victim(s) will soon be screaming in agony from burning, unable to act. There's two problems with this build, however. First, it lacks good countermeasures against armoured opponents. Second, it takes a lot of squad points for this one to really come into its own. I'd probably hold off inferno ammo and shockwave on level 2 for quite some time.


Thoughts?

[vallix]

I ended up getting Barrier on my Vanguard and I regret it. Granted I'm still early in the game, but I pwn so hard that it really hasn't been needed yet. I had plenty of almost-dying problems on my Sentinel though.

[Psython]

Thanks for the thoughts. Im playing a vangard on vet difficulty (which is really medium) and its going ok so far. Purgatory was a diffcult early game challenge for me. The big mechs are a challenge for a vangaurd and biotic squadmates, especially with backup troops. I am only 8 hrs in but its been really fun so far. I think a sentinel or a soldier would be a better choice for my playstyle (I like to hang back and wear them down), but biotic charge is so fun!

The shotgun really turns into a good shieldbreaker weapon with upgrades. The vangaurd is just perfect for taking away the ranged advantage and annialating lone targets. Anyone have any thoughts on good teammates to complement the vangaurd?

[Ackillez]

@ Vallix: What difficulty are you playing on? Should probably mention that this is intended for insanity, anything less isn't really a good measure. And on insanity I certainly think the vanguard is pretty squishy.

@ Psython: I like Garrus for long-range backup, which you really need because short-range squadmates won't be able to assist when you charge. His concussive shot ability is excellent at getting you out of tight spots by attacking troublemakers from afar. With AP ammo he also becomes deadly against armour. I tend to run around with Garrus and various others, using Miranda a lot for her excellent Cerberus leader skill that boosts your health and damage.

Modifié par Ackillez, 28 janvier 2010 - 07:58 .

[FreeKnight81]

I agree with Ackillez. The Vanguard is damn squishy. Going up against YMIR Mechs, Praetorian, hell even multiple enemies at different vantage points usually ends up with the Vanguard dead because your shields go down in an instant and then you get decimated.



As for good teammates, I'll comment on those in a bit. The game is calling me back and I have an urge to go destroy some stuff!

[MetallicaRulez0]

I would drop all but 1 point from Charge. I cannot imagine using it very often in higher difficulties. Even on Normal I was dying nearly instantly after a Charge the majority of the time. Unfortunately that means you'd be better off just going with an Adept or Sentinel.

[ComTrav]

It's not like Ymir Mechs/Praetorian are easy foes for any class...(I imagine, though, pretty straightforward for soldier. But everything is straightforward for soldier.)

[vallix]

Ah okay I'm just on normal for now.

[FreeKnight81]

With the Praetorian on Horizon, I ended up circling the platform with crates stacked up high on almost every side (front left of the area if you're looking when you first enter), so the eye beams couldn't ever hit me. I felt ridiculous doing it, but hey, after dying 4 times trying it from regular cover and flanking and etc., I wanted to move on.

[FreeKnight81]

So far, I find myself at least using Charge. Shockwave, however, is a completely different story. I have 2 ranks in that just to unlock Pull, which is one of the best abilities in the game, hands down.

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

MetallicaRulez0 wrote...

I would drop all but 1 point from Charge. I cannot imagine using it very often in higher difficulties. Even on Normal I was dying nearly instantly after a Charge the majority of the time. Unfortunately that means you'd be better off just going with an Adept or Sentinel.

Have you actually used an evolved version of Charge or just making decisions based on using the inferior low level skill?

[Ackillez]

@ Metallica: It's an interesting thought. I'm finding charge tremendously useful on insanity to GTFO of sticky situations and to pick off loners then duck into cover. Once you get some experience using it, you'll be able to see where you should use it and where you shouldn't. But since you get a total of 51 points, you could conceivably put 1 in charge, leave cryo ammo as dump, and then spend your bonus power on something else- I think I'd still be tempted to go for barrier, but perhaps the extended duration upgrade.

This would make a more balanced character focused on the offensive biotics and medium-range weapons, but retaining the fundamental ability of smashing into someone's face with charge and shotgun raping them, for the bargain price of one point in charge. It's kinda different from the stereotypical vanguard but it's not a bad idea. In either case I think you either have to put one point in charge or go all the way early, because it benefits massively from the evolved abilities (they keep you alive).

Modifié par Ackillez, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:20 .

[MetallicaRulez0]

I found Heavy Shockwave to be one of my best abilities throughout the game. Once you start encountering lots of Husks, it can be a real lifesaver to kill 4 of them with a Shockwave.

[Psython]

Ackillez- thanks for the advice. I just recuited garrus so I will try him out. I also used him constantly in ME1 so it makes sense from a r.p. perspective.

Heres an idea for a good vangaurd biotic combo. On a small group od enemies behind cover, have a squadmate use shockwave. shockwave will knock them down and bounce them out of cover to be shot by your squadmates. right after, you can use charge on them (or any left standing) to close range and take out 1 or 2 enemies. Then you have to run and get behind cover before the enemies recover. This strategy can weaken a grouped enemy force.

Also, I imagine that health boosting or shield boosting armors are good for a vangaurd. I suppose that storm speed is basically useless because charge replaces the need to storm to close distance.

[MetallicaRulez0]

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

MetallicaRulez0 wrote...

I would drop all but 1 point from Charge. I cannot imagine using it very often in higher difficulties. Even on Normal I was dying nearly instantly after a Charge the majority of the time. Unfortunately that means you'd be better off just going with an Adept or Sentinel.

Have you actually used an evolved version of Charge or just making decisions based on using the inferior low level skill?

I have Heavy Charge right now on my L28 Vanguard. I completely ignore it 99% of the time, because I know charging more than 1 enemy will get you killed almost instantly.

[FreeKnight81]

I think that's the whole point. If you plan on charging more than 1 enemy, you need Area Charge.

[Ackillez]

I haven't really used pull much. Can someone explain what it does to armoured/shielded targets? The reason I like shockwave over it is that shockwave doesn't have prerequisites, and will make any protected enemies at least stagger (and hurt them slightly). The ability to go straight through cover is also very helpful since the AI likes bunkering down.

As for storm speed: Yes, charge replaces a lot of the need for it. It can be useful for getting back into cover if you find yourself in an exposed position after a charge though. I think this is a matter of preference.

Modifié par Ackillez, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:28 .

[Psython]

I am pretty sure pull does nothing to armor and shields but I could be wrong. From what I understand, it is a great power against unarmored targets. It basically kills (results in them being killed) anything without armor or shields. It is good against little chargers such as varren or little "houndeye" mechs. Its basically an insta- disabler against those enemies.

[Psython]

I am pretty sure pull does nothing to armor and shields but I could be wrong. From what I understand, it is a great power against unarmored targets. It basically kills (results in them being killed) anything without armor or shields. It is good against little chargers such as varren or little "houndeye" mechs. Its basically an insta- disabler against those enemies.

[ComTrav]

Ackillez wrote...

I haven't really used pull much. Can someone explain what it does to armoured/shielded targets? The reason I like shockwave over it is that shockwave doesn't have prerequisites, and will make any protected enemies at least stagger (and hurt them slightly). The ability to go straight through cover is also very helpful since the AI likes bunkering down.

As for storm speed: Yes, charge replaces a lot of the need for it. It can be useful for getting back into cover if you find yourself in an exposed position after a charge though. I think this is a matter of preference.

I use Pull on my Adept. Debating between it and Shockwave, because they're both useful for getting enemies out of cover. Pull is similiar to lift in ME1 Shockwave is easier to get through cover. Using Pull properly requires a little practice 'arcing' your bio-bolt around corners and over cover. The biggest advantage of Pull IMO is range. Fights where you have an enemy on a balcony or something from across the room hitting you are out of the range of shockwave but can be easily hit by Pull. Pull also makes it easy to combo-up with a follow-up Biotic power. Shockwave is much better at close range, seems to do more damage, and is much better as a get-out-of-my way power.


Getting at least one point in both isn't a bad idea IMO. You can get a decent idea of the mechanics of each, and still have the other if you really need it. (Unless you're minimaxing like a beast and begrude even one point. Although I've used Pull more, that one point in Shockwave has come in handy.)

Does not impact protected enemies, though. (Haven't tried insanity, only veteran, is like every enemy sporting biotic barrier and shields and armor?)

[Ackillez]

The thing is, in my experience you don't need more powers to deal with unprotected targets because they're ripe for picking in just about every way you can come up with. Shockwave works wonders. Charge will knock any medium-sized thing far away, and charge+shotgun will kill anything not surrounded by friends, even the big mechs (shotgun damage is unbelievably awesome at point blank). Basic SMG fire with inferno, warp or AP ammo will splatter just about anything lacking protection.

For this reason I don't see pull as a priority. Chargers can be annoying as ****, but only really when they have their armour intact.

Edit: Yes, on insanity I've yet to see any enemies without either armour, shields or barrier. Most only have one, but excepting the intro level I think everyone has had something.

Modifié par Ackillez, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:57 .