33 réponses à ce sujet

[Ameraudur_]

Aside from having to fight and kill certain party members, what are the consequences of defiling the urn? Does Arl Eamon still get cured? Also, I've always stopped short of killing Brother Genitivi even though I think the Urn's location should stay a secret. Any negative ramifications to killing him?

Thanks for any thoughts. My playtime is limited so I haven't done saves and played through the different possibilities....

[ejoslin]

You get the ashes either way, and there's not enough change, IMO, if you kill Genetivi. All you get is approval loss from a couple of people.

[Addai]

I'm curious, for those who choose this option, what your character's motivation is RP-wise. I find that even my Chantry-haters don't want to help the nutcases in the temple fulfill their delusional dragon-worship fantasies.

[RobinMichelleB]

RP-wise, I suppose the easiest way to justify such an action would be simply if you like seeing people suffer. Once you defile the ashes, you've ruined them for good, and no one else will ever benefit from them. In addition, no one else will ever learn their location, and it is reasonable to believe that the rumor regarding the ashes will greatly boost the morale of the people of Ferelden. I really can't think of any other reason why a character would do such a thing, unless you create a character who is so susceptible to suggestion that he or she truly comes to believe that the dragon is Andraste and the ashes are stopping her from achieving her true power.

[_Aine_]

I can't seem to defile them without reverting to an old save....one day I will, just to let it play totally out but.... to answer the question RP wise...
I personally think you *could* rp a completely good character and still choose to defile the ashes BUT it would take a bit of militant-faith driving you. You could fear the commercialization of the ashes or believe whole-heartedly that it is the *faith* in the power of the ashes that drive the power of healing behind them and not the physical ashes themselves and that maintaining a physical tie-in to the faith is almost unholy or sacrilegious . Kind of like the chantry symbols of whatever they were that were given to the soldiers of Redcliffe -- did they *really* impart them with guidance against harm? It would be tougher to play of course, but possible I think...

Modifié par shantisands, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:00 .

[Ameraudur_]

Thanks for the great feedback to my OP!

From a RP standpoint it seems to me that a Dalish Elf or Dwarf PC would have no problem with defiling the ashes as they generally don't worship Andraste. Otherwise, I think any PC could be played so that Kolgrim's deal sounds good...

[SurelyForth]

My PC who defiled the urn did it out of necessity, due to bad timing and being underprepared (aka player stupidity). She was down to 5 Lesser Health Poultices when she reached Kolgrim. Making a deal with him was pretty much the only way the party was going to get out alive. I have no idea how they even managed the Guardian fight.

[Xetirox]

Needless to say, this decision disappointed me. Most other choices in the game have some moral grayness to them (i.e. as appalling as Branka's actions were, and as awful what the process of making Golems is, both you and Orzammar could benefit from them), but this one just seemed to come across as chaotic stupid. You do it at the behest of some delusional dragon-worshipping zealots who were previously trying to kill you, who offer some vague reward (that, after you do it the first time, will earn you no benefit in any future playthroughs), and want no part in stopping the Blight. I was really hoping the situation would be more akin to how the demoer described it in this preview. He reasons that he defiles the ashes in order to prevent them from being used by the Darkspawn or any particularly corrupt human. Unfortunately, those possibilities are never alluded to in-game, none of the endings really hint at any negative consequences from keeping the Ashes preserved, and looking at the Darkspawn, it's unlikely any of them would be smart enough to do anything with the Urn aside from smashing it. There just isn't any pragmatic reason to pour the dragon blood on the ashes, aside from being a dick.

Modifié par Xetirox, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:51 .

[ejoslin]

If you hate the chantry, it makes perfect sense to defile the ashes.

[Atranes]

My dwarf PC was the only one I could justify defiling the ashes from an RP perspective, because (1) they don't worship Andraste; and (2) Oghren points out that the whole mountain is filled with lyrium which could account for any paranormal occurrences, and my dwarf respected Oghren's take on it.



Even with my xenophobic, Chantry-hating elves, though, it's hard to justify defiling Andraste's ashes. Hate the Chantry as much as they do, Andraste herself was instrumental in freeing the elven slaves from Tevinter, and they respect that Andraste is better than her followers.

[artifact]

My character figured no one but the hand-picked-to-not-care party will see her do it and the potential for future allies was greater if she defiled it than if she didn't (ie, none if she left it and the cult + dragon if she defiled). All this Andraste stuff is horribly opressive and hypocritcal too boot, not to mention the silly stuff probably wouldn't even work. Besides she'd already left a cavern full of unbroken eggs .

[Kevin Lynch]

My Dalish elf rogue, Julane, went the defiling route and didn't have any hits to approval (even from Leliana, since I lied to her back in camp). Julane also ended up killing Kolgrim and folk at the end of it all; she was a tad kill happy, but then she was a duelist/assassin and wanted as much practice as possible. She didn't have any strong feelings towards kin and clan so Andraste's history didn't really move her. Basically, she was being strictly opportunistic; if something offered her benefits, she took it.

[SusanStoHelit]

It's easy to play an elf who is happy to undermine the Chantry. My elven mage was the one who defiled the ashes. She hates the Chantry with a vengeance, she doesn't care that Andraste freed the elves, so what, is she free? Are the city elves free? They may not be slaves technically, but their lives are no better than those of slaves. They certainly have no recourse if they're badly treated, raped, murdered, abused in any way. I suspect my city elf will go that way too - they're not there yet.



My dwarven characters are suspicious of the Chantry, but have no reason to actively hate it. My human mage, however, doesn't like it at all. He doesn't hate it as wholeheartedly as my elven mage, but he'd be happy to see it done away with.

[Joshd21]

To ruin the ashes, first and foremost you lose two good party members. Leliana, though I'm told if harden will stay. Though her approval rating will drop of you and Wynn, even if Wynn isn't there when it happens it's possiblie that she finds out

and confronts you in the camp. Now, I'm told if you mess up the ashes then the cult grows larger and most likely more dangerous and more of a threat. Even though you are a honored brother, unless you command this force one day they will likely turn on you

He said himself she will be released, and all will know her fiery etc think he means the dragon will grow more powerfull and even they wont be able to control it then. However, if you honestly believe that she is the dragon then you are welcome to do it, just doesn't seem worth it

[Kevin Lynch]

Joshd21 wrote...

To ruin the ashes, first and foremost you lose two good party members. Leliana, though I'm told if harden will stay. Though her approval rating will drop of you and Wynn, even if Wynn isn't there when it happens it's possiblie that she finds out and confronts you in the camp. Now, I'm told if you mess up the ashes then the cult grows larger and most likely more dangerous and more of a threat. Even though you are a honored brother, unless you command this force one day they will likely turn on you

Not always true. I didn't lose any party members, not even approval rating, and since I killed the cult afterwards, they aren't going anywhere fast, as I mentioned above.

[SusanStoHelit]

Yep, me too. I contaminated the ashes, got my power, and then killed all those fanatics. If you have a high enough persuade, Leliana isn't a problem. For Wynne, if you don't want to lose her, you go to Haven first, do the deed, then go and recruit Wynne later.

Edit: Darn my memory. That's what I'm doing for my current playthrough. For the others, I didn't know it was possible, and either didn't defile them - or did, but then reloaded so as not lose the girls. I got my decisions mixed up *sigh*. But my point stands, you can justify, from a rp perspective, exactly those actions. Down with the Chantry, and then down with Kolgrim and his dragon too. Religious zealots, the lot of them.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 29 janvier 2010 - 01:34 .

[R-F]

i did it on an archival save just to get the reaver spec, so i didn't have to keep playing on that file. i was really hoping i could intimidate Leliana into not attacking like the wikia said, but it didn't work and i didn't want to finish the file without her.

[brgillespie]

Would've been nice if you had the option of defiling the ashes by way of pissing into the Urn.

[Gold Dragon]

Sick. Just Sick.

[football_punk64]

brgillespie wrote...

Would've been nice if you had the option of defiling the ashes by way of pissing into the Urn.

You sound like ogren...

football_punk64 approves +15:wub:

[DJ0000]

Addai67 wrote...

I'm curious, for those who choose this option, what your character's motivation is RP-wise. I find that even my Chantry-haters don't want to help the nutcases in the temple fulfill their delusional dragon-worship fantasies.

For me, first of all I was curious what the power they were going to give me was so I defiled the ashes for personal power.

I killed Genetivi because I thougt there would be some pretty bad consequences for me if he goes and tells people I found the Urn(I didn't tell him I defiled them) and they find a pool of Dragon Blood in their holy relic when I was the only one who came close enough to touch them. I'm pretty sure I would have a lot of religious fanatics on my tail if they knew what I did.

After this I still killed the Cult because once I talked to Kolgrim after getting the reaver spec I realised just how crazy he actually is. The part about going out and dominating the weakened state after the Blight especially didn't sit well with me.

[MaliceDelight]

****SPOILER****

I didn't defile them the first time, but on my second play through i realized that i very much dislike the chantry after doing alot more then from my first run. So i said ok to the crazy guys worshipping the dragon, cause what are some ashes to me for a prophet i don't believe in. Then....wynn came to me in camp, called me a monster and told me she hopes i get murdered by darkspawn....she then promptly left my part.....which is fine, cause shes really the only character i dont like. Everyone else is awesome, but shes too brain washed by the chantry and to chivilrous for my liking.

1. Did it for the power from dragon blood i was promised.
2. Did not kill genativi (didn't tell him i ruined them) [although the scene where you throw a knife in the back of his head was hilarious on my first play through]
3. I hate the chantry, while they're actions are to a degree justifiable, i disagree with them strongly.

So i guess i did it for the hopes of some new power.
"Failure is not an option"
-Malice-

Modifié par MaliceDelight, 29 janvier 2010 - 09:20 .

[Gold Dragon]

Meh. Simply Kick Genitivi back to Denerim, and don't talk to him again. Chantry even denies the Ashes were found.

[Creature 1]

You always take a pinch. Your PC's not stupid.