360 réponses à ce sujet

[Korvayer]

I would have liked for the combat in DA:O to have had more of a story-driven feel to it. The game tells such a powerful and engrossing story, and satiates our bloodlust with heaping spoonfuls of combat encounters, but it rarely attempts to do both of these things at the same time.

To me, it seems as though gameplay was divided into two distinct focuses: 1) progressing a quest/story and 2) clearing out rooms of enemies in order to reach the trigger for the next progression event. In the future, if Bioware were able to blur that distinction with more of a rolling, real-time quest/story progression, as opposed to progression that is widely and predictably segmented, I think it might be of great benefit to the franchise.

We need more reminders, throughout the grind of combat, of why we're fighting. Otherwise, the joy of character progression ultimately gives way to monotony.

Modifié par Korvayer, 29 janvier 2010 - 01:22 .

[ericsa]

I love the overall scenery but the characters in it (if they're not involved in the story somehow) are way to monotone. This one scene when you're playing dalish elf (don't worry this is not a spoiler), you come across 4 people wearing the exact same outfits with different colors. I mean c'mon.

[Fluffykeith]

The only that I didn't just shrug off as a very minor niggle was the final battle sections where all the "White" named mobs were one hit wonders...it was quite disappointing, as if all the challenge had dribbled away. I'd spent all that time gathering my strength and skills and gear, and then I was basicly denied the chance to really use them fully.



Other than that I didn't see much to complain about.



Someone mentioned NWN2.

I tried that game after DA:O, and while it seemed to have lots of potential I couldn't get into it...it's a real system hog (it looks and plays worse than DA:O on my pc, for some reason) and the combat is just horrible. Anyone who complains about the combat animations in DA:O should see the ones in NWN2...or should I say the lack of them...

Apparently it's story and plot is quite good, but I couldn't stomach it long enough to find out

[HyperLimited]

The combat system for me was just blegh. They could've done better.

Please please PLEASE, do not use this system in a sequel Bioware.

[Kaoschizm]

But is NWN2 really like Dragon Age?  Wow I might have to check it out then.

I wouldn't recommend it. I tried to play NWN2 when it first came out but it was almost unplayable due to the many bugs and glitches, I literally quit after a couple of hours and the game stayed on the shelf for a year. I did get back into it after a year or so but I still never finished it, the game mechanics were just horrible - you'd spend a minute buffing your party and then lose every buff in a minor area change or an over long dialogue scene. Mages were laughably bad, the spells all took 6 seconds to cast with no way to improve on this, and  just about every spell had been nerfed to oblivion from the original NWN (where admittedly mages were god-like) in the end it was better just to go with 3 fighters and a healer, which made all the fights incredibly boring.

In the end if you could wade through all the micromanagement and put up with the many bugs and horrible AI, there was a good game in there somewhere but I just didn't have the patience for it.

[WilliamShatner]

The shameful in-game shilling of DLC for one.



In all honesty not a lot impressed me about the game. The one thing that did impress me was the depth of the character interaction, which is thankfully my favourite part of BioWare's games, so I'm able to overlook a lot and enjoy the game immensely due to that.



Generally the game seems like a step back.



It seems like a game I would have played 5 years ago, not one that took 5 years to make.

[falon-din]

Well I hardly think of the game as a step back. DAO is A-class RPG.

Despite my negative tone here, I believe it's amazing.

We're talking about the few imperfection it had. We're not bashing the poor thing.

[Psymayn]

The loot - All loot was very easy to get if you knew how, it should be more chance based, and there should be much rarer itemks than those in the game, i would've loved to see 200-300 unique items which could drop of any mob (or special bosses) with a low drop-chance. That would make your games very different geared and every playtrough would feel more unique and adds more replayability.



Number of classes (There were lots of ''sub-classes'' but still to few choices.



I didn't find playtroughs different no matter how hard i tried, only the origins.

[Upper_Krust]

The Combat, specifically...

1. Combat identity of the games enemies - too many of the enemies feel the same to fight.
2. Encounter variety - too many encounters feel like you are fighting the same fight.
3. Encounter tactics - you can use the same tactics on basically every combat and expect to win.
4. Encounter difficulty - far too many encounters simply are not challenging or thought provoking.

[plastic golem]

Combat is a step backwards from BG2, which had a lot more memorable encounters with different enemies with unique abilities. DA:O has a lot of really interesting battlefields that lend themselves to interesting tactics, but most of the enemies are fairly monotonous and forgettable. That's a limitation of the highly mechanistic system where there are few unique effects and most things just differ by degree. Items suffer the same problem: most items are simply +x to this or that. But I guess that approach is in vogue for PnP RPGs these days as well, where creatures and items with vaguely defined powers that are dependent on GM interpretation have been supplanted with ones defined in strict mechanistic terms.

It always disappoints me when game developers toy with the idea of a multi-path story where you can't see the whole world on one playthrough, but in the end get cold feet and make a basically linear game (getting to choose which order you complete quests in, or offering side quests that can be pursued with few or no consequences to the main plot line, while declining them means you lose valuable experience and treasure don't really count as non-linearity) where 80%+  of the game is the same on each playthrough. Likewise, the storyline tries to convey a certain sense of urgency, but as a player you know that the game will wait for you while you poke around every corner of the realm, doing all sorts of irrelevant side-quests. I'd like to see the same amount of content, but with shorter playthroughs that expose less of it, and where each decision you make foecloses certain opportunities, and where side quests may net valuable benefits (though a few may be wild goose chases) but also cost valuable time and opportunity, meaning you as the player have to consider the circumstances and weight the pros and cons of spending time trekking to some remote location in search of some powerful, potentially helpful, but nonessential artifact.

[Fluffykeith]

A note concerning items....the poster above talks about how most items are generally just +x to this or that ability or stat. I agree that this is pretty uninteresting, I would have prefered more it's like the Summersword, that had a special ability (knockback I think)...but I feel I should mention that this is not a recent phenomenon in RPGs by any means...it's been a standard mechanic of D&D since that systems birth over 30 years ago. It's not something that's just popped up recently

[The Elite Elite]

About my only real complaint/problem with DA is the same thing that I disliked in KOTOR and that is the combat. (Even then, I don't HATE the combat in this game like I hated it in KOTOR) I personally prefer to have more control. (something like the combat system in Oblivion where I have total control over my attacks and blocks) But it isn't that bad, it just isn't anything I found great. But outside of the combat I can't think of any real complaint I have about the game.

[simplificationizer]

Ever since I started playing exclusively in isometric view, I've been unable to put the game down. It reminds me so much of my beloved BG2, only with better graphics and even more immersive sound effects.



I'm not even halfway through the game though, but so far I have been thoroughly entertained (save for the mage origin which was terrible, as well as all the areas where you're paired with those temp chars). The writing isn't quite as good as BG2's, but there is still a lot of game left for me to see.



My two major complaints are:



1. the skill and talent system is very confusing. Do I bother with flurry and rogue debuffs or just switch on momentum and watch the numbers fly? It's very hard to figure out the optimal way to play because the talent tooltips are ridiculously vague (ok, this shot lowers my target's defense, great. But, by how much, and for how long?). Also, with no combat log or debuff indicators for targets, how do I know when to refresh a debuff?



2. don't like the way the elves are portrayed. They are just way too pitiful and human-like. I haven't played a dwarf yet but judging from the dwarf NPCs I've encountered I suspect they made them human-like as well (they even look human). I'm all for a little variation on the classic fantasy themes, but making all the races so similar to eachother is not good, in my opinion.



I'll post a full-blown constructive review once I reach the end .

[Wrath of Doom]

My biggest disappointment with DA:O is the fact the main character remains a mute in conversations. I got spoiled after ME.

[purplesunset]

The story is fairly cliche/generic. Good guys against a horde of orcs lead by a powerful evil entity.

Yes, there were arguments about this in the past, but I don't think the story in DA was original enough to cross the line from "cookie cutter" into "paying homage." I understand perfectly that there is nothing new under the sun, but Planescape Torment managed to be fresh even though it borrowed ideas liberally  from existentialist philosophers. It's understandable though, because one could argue that DA was far more successful than Torment because it made more $$$money. Big companies like Bioware can't afford to be too original, because creativity = financial risk. (as I've argued more eloquently in some of my previous posts.)

Also, David Gaider permanently lost exactly  2  "brownie points"   with me when he said that he wasn't too keen on Tolkien's writing.  If a writer told me that he read and loved  the Silmarillion, I will know right away that there is a 100% chance that I would love anything he wrote. It takes a certain personality type to appreciate a book like the Simarillion. I understand that most people would find it hopelessly tedious and boring, but for those with patience, nd longer attention spans, a reward awaits. The tale of Beren and Luthien could stand beside any romance in western history, and  the ineffable sadness of the tragedy  "Of Maeglin" could stand up to any of the classic greek tragedies, in my opinion.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Too much gifts for change companion's approvation... I would prefer max 3-4 gift for every companion (for example the only gift with clips and dialogues) and more high (or low) approval rating according to your behaviour.. I find very senseless you talk 5 minutes with someone just to have a +/-1 or +/-2 and after, simply giving an amulet or a jewel, you may obtain a +10..

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 29 janvier 2010 - 12:18 .

[bio_fan1]

My personal quibbles:



- Some of the texture work was quite blurry, even on the highest settings.



- There were quite a few instances of having to make a long trek back to location I've already visited in order to complete a quest. Like going from Redcliffe to Denerim, then back to Redcliffe. I know it supposed to be freeform, and I can travel in any order I choose, but I didn't feel that there was a naturally tidy path of completing the game, and was travelling back and forth all over the map, a lot.



- The game can be long, but the game world and world map feel kind of small to me. Maybe its the enclosed nature of each environment, and the travel mechanic between major locations that makes me feel closed in.



- I personally didn't like how the party camp always looks like its in the exact same location, wherever you travel on the map.



- I didn't really care for the gift system. For instance, Leliana can gain very little approval from talking (like +1) but giving her gifts can get +5 or more much easier. I would like a better way to gain party member approval through dialogue or non-gift related actions alone.



- I also didn't like the fact that I would have to initiate conversation with my companions, almost always. It would be nice if they start conversations with me more. And gave me gifts (I like getting gifts too!).



Thats all I can think of for now...

[purplesunset]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...
I find it very senseless you talk 5 minutes with someone just to have a +/-1 or +/-2 and after, simply giving an amulet or a jewel, you may obtain a +10..

bio_fan1 wrote...
- I didn't really care for the gift system.
For instance, Leliana can gain very little approval from talking (like
+1) but giving her gifts can get +5 or more much easier. I would like a
better way to gain party member approval through dialogue or non-gift
related actions alone.

How is this different from real life ?

You could say "I love you"  to a woman and get a +1 , but if you give her a diamond ring...

Modifié par purplesunset, 29 janvier 2010 - 12:34 .

[AndreaDraco]

purplesunset wrote...
Also, David Gaider permanently lost exactly  2  "brownie points"   with me when he said that he wasn't too keen on Tolkien's writing.  If a writer told me that he read and loved  the Silmarillion, I will know right away that there is a 100% chance that I would love anything he wrote. It takes a certain personality type to appreciate a book like the Simarillion. I understand that most people would find it hopelessly tedious and boring, but for those with patience, nd longer attention spans, a reward awaits. The tale of Beren and Luthien could stand beside any romance in western history, and  the ineffable sadness of the tragedy  "Of Maeglin" could stand up to any of the classic greek tragedies, in my opinion.

While I'm a Tolkien fan myself, I really hope you're kidding with the last statement

Anyway, I really liked the story (it *is* complex, if you take the time to look beyond the fabula and actually examine the many little details, the intriguing moral choices, the intricacies of the setting) and the writing, especially when it comes to magic lore, and my only, very minor, gripe with the game is that - aside from Redcliffe (by night), Dead Trenches, and Haven/Urn of Sacred Ashes -there was very little horror atmosphere in it. A personal preference, and I can perfectly live without it, but it would have been nice to be able to explore some gloomy, ominous location under a black, starless night sky, maybe with lots of fog swirling around!

[Haranalee]

I have a glowing opinion of this game, it was so well crafted and so immersive. The one thing that did irk me, though, was the inventory management for quest-related documents/letters/notes. I would frequently lose items in the system and (maybe because I played on the 360) there was no way to scroll past an item that was highlighted as 'unread' without it losing the highlight. Since I didn't necessarily want to read everything each time I checked for a note in my inventory, it was not the best implementation of a flag.

[explaining above] By "lose items in the system" I mean that some notes ended up in the quest section, but some notes ended up in my inventory or someplace else I was not expecting. Maybe cross-listing items would help. Or allowing you to read a note the minute you pick it up without having to open your inventory and locate it manually.

Modifié par Haranalee, 29 janvier 2010 - 12:41 .

[TyroneTasty]

There were way too many trees in the Brecillian forest. I mean c'mon.

[Aeropostle]

I really like the game, but if they could have applied the depth of NWN with this game, it would have been killer. The combat options, builds, spells, etc. were terrific. DA seems a bit limited in comparison.

[plastic golem]

Fluffykeith wrote...

A note concerning items....the poster above talks about how most items are generally just +x to this or that ability or stat. I agree that this is pretty uninteresting, I would have prefered more it's like the Summersword, that had a special ability (knockback I think)...but I feel I should mention that this is not a recent phenomenon in RPGs by any means...it's been a standard mechanic of D&D since that systems birth over 30 years ago. It's not something that's just popped up recently

The venerable sword +1 is 35 years old; it's not that this kind of mechanical adjustment has not been in place since the beginning, but the earliest versions of D&D had numerous items that required creative use and DM interpretation. Think medallion of ESP or ring of invisibility (where the effects of invisibility were defined in only the broadest terms). Eventually, these items became fewer, replaced by items with a more complex set of defined rules for use, and these rules were ultimately rationalized into a fairly small set of basic mechanics and effects.

CRPGs can't provide the same sort of on the spot adjudication that a human GM can, but the items in BG2 had a wider variety of powers that made them unique: they did things other than simply provide a bonus to one of a handful of core powers. Of course, those items also existed, but in practice, the items that players tended to want to keep had an array of particular powers, such as celestial fury or the staff of the magi, while +X swords tended to be sold at the first opportunity.

[purplesunset]

AndreaDraco wrote...

purplesunset wrote...
Also, David Gaider permanently lost exactly  2  "brownie points"   with me when he said that he wasn't too keen on Tolkien's writing.  If a writer told me that he read and loved  the Silmarillion, I will know right away that there is a 100% chance that I would love anything he wrote. It takes a certain personality type to appreciate a book like the Simarillion. I understand that most people would find it hopelessly tedious and boring, but for those with patience, nd longer attention spans, a reward awaits. The tale of Beren and Luthien could stand beside any romance in western history, and  the ineffable sadness of the tragedy  "Of Maeglin" could stand up to any of the classic greek tragedies, in my opinion.

While I'm a Tolkien fan myself, I really hope you're kidding with the last statement

Anyway, I really liked the story (it *is* complex, if you take the time to look beyond the fabula and actually examine the many little details, the intriguing moral choices, the intricacies of the setting) and the writing, especially when it comes to magic lore, and my only, very minor, gripe with the game is that - aside from Redcliffe (by night), Dead Trenches, and Haven/Urn of Sacred Ashes -there was very little horror atmosphere in it. A personal preference, and I can perfectly live without it, but it would have been nice to be able to explore some gloomy, ominous location under a black, starless night sky, maybe with lots of fog swirling around!

No, for some reason, the story of the Dark Elf really struck a chord within me. The moral ambiguity of his sentence, and the fact that Tolkien actually showed his beloved elves in a negative light really hit home for me.


Of course, on a micro-level Dragon Age might offer lots of new and interesting things. The writing for the characters is praised very often.  But on a macro level,the story is just plain cliche. I can do without hordes in the future, if you ask me.

[Haranalee]

Oh, and also, I absolutely was in awe of the expanded party relationships, and I give them huge props for doing it so well, but there were certain points in the game where I was like "Why has no one asked how I'm doing/feeling?" -- such as after I killed the guy who betrayed my family and Alistair has nothing to say at all! Or when I encountered my father unexpectedly and none of my companions so much as blink an eye. I was ready with a shoulder to cry on and an encouraging word for all of my people! I would have liked to see some reciprocation especially from the person I romanced.