360 réponses à ce sujet

[Mlai00]

Dzikv wrote...
I felt the story was "forced" onto the character. Forcing us to become a grey warden... Blaming Loghain for the wardens secrecy and praising Cailens naive nature... Showing the wardens as the "good guys" more of then a band of outcasts that have only one job to do - stopping the blight at ALL cost. The wardens should be more "grey".
The world itself seems fine but the story was a bit of a disappointment. And the naive nature of so many characters in the game is so disturbing...

I don't see the "naivete" and "optimism" that you see in the game.  I think the story and presentation has been crafted well enough, that you see the side of the story as your character wishes to see it.
If the character is a lawful good type, you'll see the Wardens and young King being painted as heroes through his eyes, and Loghain being automatically evil because of his deeds.
However, there are plenty of antisocial/cynical dialogue choices for you to choose, if your character has more of a "grey" mentality.  You can fire any companion you feel are too simple-minded for your tastes, or you can manipulate them for your purposes.
I'm in my first playthrough, and I saw the greyness of the Wardens.  But I chose to keep my character as lawful good, and to have faith in his ideals.  He was forced to become a Warden.  But all the Wardens died, effectively making him the decider of what the GW will be.  Will they continue to be an amoral force, ends justifying the means?  Or will he mold its future into an organization that doesn't just fight Darkspawn, but serves justice and mercy?  The game definitely gives your character that choice.

[Jaymo147]

Open-world please

[darkmax1974]

Seeing many of the remarks here, I realize that some are looking at this game from a MMO point of view..... This is not an MMO or a Multi-player.



This is a game that makes you a hero.. or thrust you into becoming a hero. This is a fairly old-fashioned RPG game.

[falon-din]

Yeah! All the talk of the lack of multiplayer is 100% moot!!
What's this have to do with that??

Modifié par falon-din, 31 janvier 2010 - 07:59 .

[Melchida_L]

The sidequests.The blackstone irregulars and the colective were basically take item A to person B in location C. Not a lot of fighting, backstory or exploring places outside of the main story

[eastoreispos]

The game felt anorexic.



1. The combat is cool at first until you realize there's only 2 animations for each weapon type (and they're often shared).



2. Mage gear is terrible



3. Stamina system is terrible for those that use it



4. 3 classes... boring



5. 90% of melee weapons are swords, 90% of ranged weapons are bows



6. The game did not contain nearly as much violence and action as was touted pre-release (note I'm talking about events such as Ostigar)



7. The story was good, but anemic. It's extremely linear, sure you can choose to go to dwarfs first, mages second, etc. etc. but in the end you're still doing the same ****, just different order.



8. Darkspawn threat is severely underrepresented and plays third fiddle to the numerous mini-crisis's at the tower, dwarfs and dalish forest. The game has absolutely no sense of foreboding doom from the Blight.





Honestly it felt like a Neverwinter Nights 1 expansion pack. NWN 2 was a much better fleshed out game than DAO. The only thing DAO has over NWN is better character interaction and prettier graphics.

[Sabriana]

The whole of the DLC is garbage imo. It's just not suited for an RPG. It'll do fine for FPS' and even for hybrids to some extend, but not a pure RPG.

Save it all, and give me a well done add-on that meshes with the main story-line, and doesn't clash with the main story anytime. I'll be patient, and even pay more for that.

I do hate it when DLC messes with my RPGing by messing with story cohesion, NPC development, OOCing my companions, and all the rest of the RPG no-nos.

[Remail]

What I didn't like about DA:O was RTO it was horrible.

[LolaRuns]

If I had one nitpick it's that it seems that the character conversations seemed to be exhausted rather quickly. Particularly later in the game it seemed like you and your companions didn't have much to say to each other anymore. Which is particularly glaring if you are in a romance with a character. If wish there had been more options to discuss some of the game events/your actions after they happen.



You do some pretty epic things, it would have been nice if you could comment about it to your companions. That would also solve the problem of exhausting your dialog options too quickly because you want 100 approval. Make more options (yes there are some, but more would be good) tied to story developments (Landsmeet, Ritual, Anvil...). It seems almost out of character that some companions wouldn't have opinions about certain events.



To me the lack of dialog options at the later stages of the game really took me out of the experience a bit.

[kk777]

My biggest complaint is that mages and rogues barely have any armor to wear, it also looks rather plain compared the the heavy armor alternatives.

[AndyRose]

At a practical level, the implementation of the Codex is simply wrong. Bioware's design teams clearly do not talk to each other - the Mass Effect 2 Codex is the way that DA:O should have been done.



The fact that your character is not voiced in dialogue takes away some of the world immersion. Bioware's teams clearly do not talk... etc, given that Shepherd in ME2 speaks all of his/her lines to other characters. I would like to hear my character talking in dialogue rather than being silent.



It is a shame that the world is so restricted, it would have been much better to follow the Oblivion model and give you freedom to roam around (with a fast travel option for those that prefer it).



And yes, more diverse clothing and armour options would have been good. The modding community is working on that one.



Brilliant game, though. Best RPG I have played for a long time. Compelling storyline and believable characters / world.

[Terra_Ex]

Wasn't expecting perfection what with this being a new IP and reinvigorating the old BG roots, therefore I try to compare DA:O with BG1 than BG2. That said, some of my observations:

Banter between PC & party members is almost always PC initiated - This is a mixed blessing I guess, I lose count of the number of times that a party member would decide that the mind flayers lair in BG2 was the ideal time to confront me about random slayer transformations - but if party members initiated dialogue in safe areas a bit more often (I think it happens very rarely in camp) it may be a little more believable.

Ghost towns - towns and cities should feel more "alive"  - check out the "Improved Atmospheres" mod, this is approaching what I'd come to expect in DA:O. Bioware, make it so for the sequel.

Towns, cities & villages - Put simply, there's not enough. Even making a couple of extra "visitable" districts in Denerim could have helped mitigate this problem.

Mage robes & headgear - seems like these weren't given any attention at all tbh - more variety and circlets required.

Enchantment - All equipment should be enchantable.

Tactics & A.I - Limited number of "tactics slots" requiring points to be wasted to create semi-intelligent A.I behaviour. No real need for this as I can see it, let the player customise party A.I as suits them.

Weather - No weather, day or night cycle detracts from overally believability and immersion.

classes & Skill acquisition - More classes, skills and branching skill trees required. Sten and Oghren on my playthroughs became essentially the same character with both focusing on 2H-weapons.

Overheard conversations & party banter - The way that "town gossips" overheard conversations take precadence over ongoing party banter and cancel them out - more a minor gripe than something that failed to impress, happened to me a few times in frostback mountains.

Inability to flee from "ranked" enemies - If you lose a couple of party members near an enemy with a coloured name, its pretty much game over, even if you travel to the other side of the area, it doesn't break the encounter. For most uncoloured enemies though, you are able to escape.

Lack of closure on Morrigan romance - I dunno, it seems that players that chose to romance her ultimately don't end up in that much of a different position to those that didn't. If its gonna be continued later, fair enough, otherwise disappointing - the other romances that I've played through had a more satisfying end.

The Darkspawn threat - After Calain's death, the darkspawn take a backseat, popping up solely for a single encounter whenever the player gains a new ally as part of the primary quest. As a result, the main challenge of the game actually becomes Loghain - reaching him is a monumental task in comparison to how long it takes you to move from Landsmeet to the final encounter.

Voiceovers, modding potential & the toolset  - I'm kind of ambivalent about this. One thing that really elevates BG2 above others in the long term is fan created mods - particularly ones that extend/enhance the core story. BG2 was not voice-oriented and as such, modders could create rich dialogue. DA:O however is very much voiceover-centric, which is both its greatest strength AND its greatest weakness. I myself, would be unable to take any mod that attempts to extend the story/character quest seriously unless its professionally voiced by the original actors, and since most modders don't have the finances to hire said talent, for me, this locks out a lot potential user created content from the official campaign - someone mimicking the original VA just wouldn't cut it for me. This may just be a my own personal foible though, not sure how others feel on it - I personally think the cast is superb and it adds a lot to the game that would take many lines of prose to accomplish otherwise. That said, the toolkit is an extremely powerful tool for created completely new campaigns from scratch and I expect we'll some good things of it in the future.

Don't read too much into all that though, DA:O is still probably the best RPG I've played in years and reaffirmed my belief that WRPGs (at least bioware developed ones) completely eclipse jrpgs in all areas.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 01 février 2010 - 01:57 .

[Mlai00]

Do keep in mind that Bioware's WRPGs take a lot of cues from JRPGs. Enclosed, tightly-scripted storyline? Linearity? Characters with personality that you actually come to care about? Those are all JRPG innovations.

Look at the early WRPGs such as the original Pools of Radiance series. Early WRPGs were pure open-world free-roaming games that some players still prefer (but I don't). I think Bioware almost has the right balance between linear story and free exploration.

[falon-din]

AndyRose

I'm pretty sure the DA team played Mass Effect to the extent of contempt. You can't do well at your job if you don't observe your competitors/allies/peers.
I guess your character's voice in dialogues was deliberately left undone for some reason...

Modifié par falon-din, 01 février 2010 - 08:31 .

[spottyblanket]

You could only romance four characters. No sten romance

- Jowan being cut from the team too. Or at least knowing what happens to him? A few loose ends in that regard?

- More of the Fade, that was way more interesting then the darkspawn. In fact, I'd love a (3rd?) game that has them as the threat. I think the Fade is way more a threat and it is complex as well.

Bigger world map, but we are getting expansions I guess...

Bigger towns and cities--that look different. Some of them look the same. I would have liked to have seen more creativity there.

Better Dawlish origins story...I wasn't too impressed with that one, Mage, human and street elf were the best.

Modifié par spottyblanket, 01 février 2010 - 08:53 .

[the shad0wx]

Music in the battle for redcliffe at the night

[spottyblanket]

Urghh oh god yeah, that music was so annoying. I think the only music I liked was Leilana's song.

[Fluffykeith]

I'm seeing a lot if people wanting a sort of open world, free roaming game, in the style of Morrowind or Oblivion. I'm finding that kind of curious, because from experience (based on too many years RPing) it seems to me that the best RPGs are the ones with really good stories, imho. The systems might suck, the settings might be generic, but if the story is well crafted it can work much better than if the story sucks. I've played some awesome games in settings and systems that have been clunky as hell. What I'm trying, probably not too well, to say is that the story is probably one of the most important aspects of a good RPG. It's the thing that seperates it from mere hacknslash.



And I found the story in Morrowind and Oblivion to be shoddy as all hell. It was necessarily paper thin in both cases, in the rare occasions where you actually encountered it, because if it were more pervasive it would have intruded on the players freedom to wander. Hence how it was possible to spend hours questing, wandering and exploring without knowing if you'd advanced the main story one iota.



I really, really hope Bioware doesn't decide to sacrifice storytelling for open-worldness. Morrowind and Oblivion did some things very well, but story is not one of them, imho. I think they were poorer RPGs for that reason, and I hope to hell Bioware never goes down that route.



There, I've said it. I'll now duck...

[falon-din]

Keith



First of all, Oblivion had a much better storyline than DAO!!

DAO may have successfully portrayed your companions in great detail and involved your character in their lives; but that's because, unlike Oblivion, it has a party system.

But if you compare the essence of the two stories, Oblivion becomes clearly better. Not as brilliant as BGII but still better than the clichéd flawed DAO.

Also DAO becomes much worse if you compare its side quests (irregulars, chantry board...) to Oblivion's side quests (the grey cowl, Garridin's tears...), right?? There was a bunch of good new ideas there and I hope the Bethesda guys keep pushing the boundaries.



Second of all, who says that "open world" and "good storyline" are mutually-exclusive as you view them?? I don't get you...

[ph1ldo]

I see a ton of people comparing dragon age's build system to that of neverwinter nights, and baldurs gate, and it really makes me wonder how people dont see the glaringly obvious, nwn and bg 1&2 were all based on a dungeons and dragons rule-set, each a different iteration of it if i remember correctly. With dragon age origins, bioware has started the foundation for their own rule-set which im sure we will see grow and expand, doing this give bioware complete control of the property allowing modification in any way shape or for aswell as adaptability for other bioware rpg's, this will also save them lots of money, cause im sure licensing the d&d rule-set is not cheap.

people seem to look at dragon age and a 100% finished product, where as when i look at dragon age, i see a successful fieldtest for an inhouse graphics engine and roleplaying build system, wrapped up in a fun new universe that im sure will lead to many many sequels, i greatly look forward to any bioware rpg coming in the future after playing dragon age: origins, thank you kind sirs and madams.

Modifié par ph1ldo, 02 février 2010 - 01:51 .

[draxynnus]

Now that it's been mentioned - the first stage of the Redcliffe siege didn't really feel like much of a siege - just standing around behind the wall of burning oil while undead straggled in at a rate of one or two every few minutes (I may be exaggerating the time gap, but it certainly FELT like that). Would have been nice to see more undead in that sequence, even if some were weaker examples that died in the flames. Really, that section felt to me that I could have just left the knights at their posts and gone straight down to the militia and the knights would still have come through without casualties.

Mlai00 wrote...

Every single RPG I've played (on PC and consoles) up until DAO, has been non-scaled, and inactive party members do not automatically level up.
Yet, their battle systems are definitely not broken.
I've played a lot of RPGs.
So, yes, it can be done.  And it has been done.  Many many times.  You cannot convince me that level-scaling is the only way to make a balanced RPG.  I have too much experience in the matter.

To get a little more detailed on the subject.  You *do not* average the player character levels; you do not add 10+10+10+22.  What you average is the total exp of all the characters.  And then, ofc the early leveling requires less exp per level compared to the late leveling, and different classes require different amounts of exp.
So enemies that are scaled will not all be lvl 13.  They will be whatever level the average exp dictates - so definitely higher than 13, and won't be wiped by a single lvl 22.
None of this is new.  It's been done in all earlier RPGs.

Which ones are those, out of curiousity? Since I'm pretty sure Bioware has used level-scaled party members before. I distinctly remember, for instance, NWN henchmen sitting in the general area of one level below my character. I think KOTOR did it as well. Been a while since I've played either, though, so I could be wrong.

And... these games with inactive party members that don't level up. Can you really tell me that this doesn't just lead to a situation where after a certain point most players only use one active party, maybe with the odd substitution when a new character becomes available at a similar level to the others? The only way I can see this not happening is if you're regularly forced to mix up your active party by the storyline, or if the player is deliberately choosing to play with underleveled party members on occasion for the challenge.

Modifié par draxynnus, 02 février 2010 - 02:04 .

[blade12775]

The specialization classes suck for the most part. Then there's the runes. While good for the weapons they need to have slots for the armor. It's kind of stupid that there are defense bonus' for weapons. It doesn't make sense.

[Feraele]

VanDraegon wrote...

The aspect that made me stay up way too late at night playing it totally sucked. Also, that part where my wife got annoyed at how much i was playing could use some tweaking. Perhaps an official mod for that?

LOL!! funny stuffs

[spottyblanket]

Oh and more interesting sidequests that relate to the story rather than odd jobs.