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[Nonvita]

ejoslin wrote...

Nonvita wrote...

I've had no interest in playing a dwarf beyond the origins except for this. Unfortunately I couldn't find a video of it on youtube, so it looks like I inevitably will have to do a quick runthrough to get it (my elf will be very jealous!). At least, like you said, you can make quite attractive female dwarves in this game. I like that, actually- pretty dwarf women are probably the biggest departure from typical fantasy in the whole game.

Do dwarf nobles really get that good of stuff? I just tried out the "Of Noble Cast" mod on my HNF, and it was very nice getting to Lothering with plenty of gold and some very decent gear!

It's not that.  It's that, well, remember Gorim in Denerim?  You knew him in Orzammar.  Oh, and sell any promisary notes you get!

Oh, and that kiss . . . lasts at least 3x as long as the elf one . . .  hah, and all this build up, and I swear you won't be disappointed anyway.  It's the reason I've played dwarf noble and casteless to the end.  

Zevran kisses make it possible to get through anything!

Oh yes, I forgot about the discount from Gorim. I've heard so many good things about him as a character... *sigh* I have so many characters I already want to play, but I may have to interrupt everything and roll a dwarf. Although I already know my boyfriend will not let me live it down if I do.

[ejoslin]

Nonvita wrote...

Zevran kisses make it possible to get through anything!

Oh yes, I forgot about the discount from Gorim. I've heard so many good things about him as a character... *sigh* I have so many characters I already want to play, but I may have to interrupt everything and roll a dwarf. Although I already know my boyfriend will not let me live it down if I do.

Especially these kisses  I swear the developers made it so good to make sure women gamers played dwarves.

[Nonvita]

ejoslin wrote...

Nonvita wrote...

Zevran kisses make it possible to get through anything!

Oh yes, I forgot about the discount from Gorim. I've heard so many good things about him as a character... *sigh* I have so many characters I already want to play, but I may have to interrupt everything and roll a dwarf. Although I already know my boyfriend will not let me live it down if I do.

Especially these kisses  I swear the developers made it so good to make sure women gamers played dwarves.

Why those sneaky developers! Their shady tactics have worked!

You know, I was just looking through my screenshots, and I didn't realize just how many I took because of Zevran staring at my character... I guess I can't get enough of it!

[Raiynsong]

this thread is seriously dangerous... I have to make SO MANY new chars to get all these great endings !

[Raiynsong]

so I'm a city elf rogue this time round and decided my goal is to romance Leli first and then Zevran.

Just did mage tower and then redcliffe. Like last time, I sacrificed Isolde. Wow, Alistair was a total ****** to me this time. he was a bit angry last time but this time he's just horrid to me. I ended up getting him back to neutral approval with his mother's locket but he's really nasty when I ask him to teach templar skills. The other two plays he did it without a complaint at all.... He keeps this up, I'm gonna let Loghain live this time.... twerp.... (LOL)



On the other hand, Teagan came on to me this time . That was a total surprise and had me smilling right up until Alistair got pissy. Wish we could get Teagan further along than a mild flirtation.

[Cuddlezarro]

Ahhh Redcliff the post redcliff confrontation is one reason I like Zevran more than Alistair (though I do like Alistair)



Atleast Zevran doesn't suggest something then go get pissy at me for following his advice its made even worse that Alistair shouts how they should have let Isolde go through with the ritual yet he explodes if you do that to

[Nonvita]

Raiynsong wrote...

so I'm a city elf rogue this time round and decided my goal is to romance Leli first and then Zevran.
Just
did mage tower and then redcliffe. Like last time, I sacrificed Isolde.
Wow, Alistair was a total ****** to me this time. he was a bit angry
last time but this time he's just horrid to me. I ended up getting him
back to neutral approval with his mother's locket but he's really nasty
when I ask him to teach templar skills. The other two plays he did it
without a complaint at all.... He keeps this up, I'm gonna let Loghain
live this time.... twerp.... (LOL)

On the other hand, Teagan
came on to me this time . That was a total surprise and had me smilling
right up until Alistair got pissy. Wish we could get Teagan further
along than a mild flirtation.

I've never gotten much flirtation with Teagann- is there something other than just talking to him about his family? I love his character, but I too have never understood why it has to end just there. :innocent:

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Ahhh Redcliff the post redcliff confrontation is one reason I like Zevran more than Alistair (though I do like Alistair)

Atleast Zevran doesn't suggest something then go get pissy at me for following his advice its made even worse that Alistair shouts how they should have let Isolde go through with the ritual yet he explodes if you do that to

I dunno, call me crazy but I always kind of liked Alistair's explosion after Redcliffe. Maybe because I always have high persuasion so I don't take as big a hit, but it's one of the few moments where he really speaks up. Of course, it's annoying he had to save his opinion until after it's over, but hey, he realizes how dumb he's being and actually says some good things in that dialogue.

[Cuddlezarro]

I dunno, call me crazy but I always kind of liked Alistair's explosion after Redcliffe. Maybe because I always have high persuasion so I don't take as big a hit, but it's one of the few moments where he really speaks up. Of course, it's annoying he had to save his opinion until after it's over, but hey, he realizes how dumb he's being and actually says some good things in that dialogue.

my problem isnt so much that he explodes its that he suggests something and when i go through with it he explodes at me saying how I could even do it when it was HIS IDEA in the first place

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

I dunno, call me crazy but I always kind of liked Alistair's explosion after Redcliffe. Maybe because I always have high persuasion so I don't take as big a hit, but it's one of the few moments where he really speaks up. Of course, it's annoying he had to save his opinion until after it's over, but hey, he realizes how dumb he's being and actually says some good things in that dialogue.

my problem isnt so much that he explodes its that he suggests something and when i go through with it he explodes at me saying how I could even do it when it was HIS IDEA in the first place

That is what bugs me about it as well.  Zevran at least pleads for people's lives instead of telling you to take them then getting mad when you do.  I fully understand Alistair's anger there -- I also understand because of his templar training why he feels Conner must die.  What I don't understand is his blaming the Warden for it.  She only did what both he and Bann Teagan told her must be done.

[SusanStoHelit]

Yes, it's totally illogical and unreasonable. I don't know if it's simply a plot hole - or the writers deliberately set out to make Alistair a total git at that one place. If he said, "no" to sacrificing Connor and Isolde, and you did it anyway, being yelled at would make sense. But to suggest it himself and then scream at you for listening to him seems utterly senseless.

[Sabriana]

Yeah, I agree. That was a total shocker to my PC. First Alistair is the one who suggests killing Connor, and then he totally goes nuts on her when she takes his advice. It was jarring, to say the least.

From then on, Isolde gets the priviledge of sacrificing herself. Her death will save Connor, give her hero-status, and makes up for the horror, doom, and death she has inflicted on so many. Why should I save her whole family, when her actions have torn so many families asunder?

The little girl, apparently hurt, on the chantry floor breaks my heart, so does the little boy asking the old woman "when are mother and father coming back?" and the old woman answering "They've gone on a long trip."  Same goes with the little girl asking "Where is father?" and then being told "He's outside the chantry trying to defend us."  If Murdock dies, the PC finds out that he had a family and at least one child. So yeah, Isolde, you get to be a hero, especially since that's what you want.

Anyway, my HN amazon just accepted Zevran's earring the second time around it was offered. Too bad it doesn't show in my inventory, I guess my game glitched, or something. Well, at least I can pretend that Alissande is wearing it, so there is a reason it won't show up

I must admit that I picked the "It's too much" option first, simply because Zevran's response is so moving. I think my F5 and F9 keys are wearing out. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they did.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana, the earring not appearing in your inventory is a game bug, not a game glitch. I was hoping it would be fixed along the line, either by BW or by a mod, but it hasn't been yet. And yes, you can't get the full feel of Zevran's feelings at that point until you are dumped by him for not loving him as he loves you. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

[Sabriana]

Ah, thanks Ejoslin. I thought it was my game.

I have some glitches that seem to be particular to my game (such as Sten's quest not advancing in the journal after Lake Calenhad - in none of my play-throughs). Glad to hear that this time around it's more universal.

You know, that response also makes the "Zevran is all about sex, all the time" thinkers so very wrong. The PC even offers to carry on with the fun and tumble, but Zevran's reaction.... wow.

[ejoslin]

Ugh, yes, the look on his face at that point has got to be the worst in the game. When he falls in love, he falls hard. Having broken up with all three (heh, on a regular basis), I can honestly say Zevran, if he's not in love, takes it hard, but if he is in love, the other two just can't even compare with the pain he feels. I guess because he was the one who was not looking to fall in love and fought it the entire way.

[Sabriana]

Indeed. He fights it all the way, because to him it's wrong, reckless, dangerous, and goes against everything that was drilled into him starting at age 7, by hook and by crook.

You can actually see him being destroyed from the inside out, picking that line.
You know, I played a lot of RPG's in my life, and I did form attachments to certain characters, but never the way I feel about the Zevran romance.

Pfft..., I'm still bitter about the whole Haer Da'lis thing, but I still like the Zevran romance, and even the friendship-only relationship the very best of interpersonal play.

[ejoslin]

It is nice, though, breaking up with him there at least once, to realize that yes, it is a proposal, not that he feels a burning desire to be married, but that he's given up and just wants to be with the Warden, with or without promises of the future, just knowing that a possibility of a future with her is enough to keep him there. It's a fantastic contrast to his reaction when you first bring up marriage and the earring ("Does this mean we're married in Antiva?" "Let's hope not."). Once he gets his feelings sorted out, all bravado is gone, all defenses. Just the raw feelings and hope of a future.

[Sabriana]

Yes, he does let go of all pretense. I still laugh at the "but so have..., so has everything you've done" line. Way to go Zevran, Freud would have a field day



By the way, is it just wishful thinking/me totally going into RP-mode, or does the "Jealous? Who, me?" line sound a bit fakish to others as well? I always get the feeling that he's denying what he really feels, at least to an extend. He can't fathom being jealous, because he is still fighting, so it comes out a bit shaky. To me at least.

[ejoslin]

Hmmmm, the jealous line . . . he actually sounds a bit charmed at the idea. I actually think he believes he means it when he says the reason he's stepping aside is he doesn't want Alistair/Leliana to be hurt and he certainly makes it sound like leaving him is the obvious choice. It's only that huge approval drop that gives him away there. Then again, I think it's already at that point beyond casual for him, but he is fighting falling in love and a lot of what he says and what he actually feels aren't quite in line.

I go back to he trusts the PC enough if they're lovers to tell her about Rinna if his approval is high enough, but doesn't trust the PC enough to tell her until after meeting Taliesen if they're only friends. There's a bond there, whether he admits it or not. He definitely does not want to share the Warden, but tells himself the reason is to not hurt anyone else. And that probably is a big part of it, because he always seems to be putting other people's feelings ahead of his own.

But is he jealous? Not of the warden having sex with someone else. But of her having feelings for someone else? I'm sure he is.

How's that for a non-answer!

Edit: for clarity

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 février 2010 - 01:29 .

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmmm, the jealous line . . . he actually sounds a bit charmed at the idea. I actually think he believes he means it when he says the reason he's stepping aside is he doesn't want Alistair/Leliana to be hurt and he certainly makes it sound like leaving him is the obvious choice. It's only that huge approval drop that gives him away there. Then again, I think it's already at that point beyond casual for him, but he is fighting falling in love and a lot of what he says and what he actually feels aren't quite in line.

I go back to he trusts the PC enough if they're lovers to tell her about Rinna if his approval is high enough, but doesn't trust the PC enough to tell her until after meeting Taliesen if they're only friends. There's a bond there, whether he admits it or not. He definitely does not want to share the Warden, but tells himself the reason is to not hurt anyone else. And that probably is a big part of it, because he always seems to be putting other people's feelings ahead of his own.

But is he jealous? Not of the warden having sex with someone else. But of her having feelings for someone else? I'm sure he is.

How's that for a non-answer!

Edit: for clarity

Edited for clarity? You're funny, you are

I get the feeling he's trying to convince himself, because he's so utterly relieved when my PC tells him that she wants him instead of Alistair/Leliana. It sounds like a sigh of relief to me.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Edited for clarity? You're funny, you are

I get the feeling he's trying to convince himself, because he's so utterly relieved when my PC tells him that she wants him instead of Alistair/Leliana. It sounds like a sigh of relief to me.

That is does.  I think it also plays into the fact that he always expects so little from a situation, just grabbing his moments and being grateful for those.  The Warden actually returning his feelings is probably more than he could ever allow himself to hope for.

Edit: When he forces her to choose, he pretty much words it in a way that he expects her to leave.  He trivializes their time together ("we've had our fun," or "our flirtation has been fun,") and it's not unless you press him about it that he admits it would hurt., but that his feelings are not important in it.  

Second edit: And even if you do choose him, while he's obviously happy, he's STILL putting the Warden's feelings ahead of his own, and either respecting her need to be alone if she asks for it, or tries to cheer her up.  All the people who think Zevran is selfish as a partner really don't pay attention to how he's the only one who seems to put other people before him, almost always.

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 février 2010 - 04:28 .

[Sabriana]

Oh yeah. Another dialogue I like very much comes in one of the 'him or me' dialogues. It concerns the PC asking Zevran "is that what you want?" Zevran gives himself completely away saying: "What I want? It's not so simple."

And that after him going through the whole spiel of "we've had our fun, etc, etc." only a few sentences before that. I wish my PC had the opportunity to ask: "It's not simple all of the sudden? Why not? Didn't you just tell me it was all just fun and pleasure?"

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh yeah. Another dialogue I like very much comes in one of the 'him or me' dialogues. It concerns the PC asking Zevran "is that what you want?" Zevran gives himself completely away saying: "What I want? It's not so simple."
And that after him going through the whole spiel of "we've had our fun, etc, etc." only a few sentences before that. I wish my PC had the opportunity to ask: "It's not simple all of the sudden? Why not? Didn't you just tell me it was all just fun and pleasure?"

Heh, that's what convinces me, every time, to pick him.  Because no matter what he says, there is so much more there than he is willing to admit.  Or hope for.  And that he is willing to put everyone else's happiness ahead of his own says so much about him.

[AnniLau]

Ha, I liked the line somewhere after (I think) the first offer of the earring when he tells you that he's been confused ever since you first invited him to your tent. I was like, oh really?

[Sandtigress]

ejoslin wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Oh yeah. Another dialogue I like very much comes in one of the 'him or me' dialogues. It concerns the PC asking Zevran "is that what you want?" Zevran gives himself completely away saying: "What I want? It's not so simple."
And that after him going through the whole spiel of "we've had our fun, etc, etc." only a few sentences before that. I wish my PC had the opportunity to ask: "It's not simple all of the sudden? Why not? Didn't you just tell me it was all just fun and pleasure?"

Heh, that's what convinces me, every time, to pick him.  Because no matter what he says, there is so much more there than he is willing to admit.  Or hope for.  And that he is willing to put everyone else's happiness ahead of his own says so much about him.

As a character, I like him a lot for this too.  Even when he's asking you to choose between him and Alistair, its about Alistair's feelings, not his own.  He says that he's wiling to let things continue like they are, but its Alistair who would be hurt in the long run because he would want something more serious and committed.  Zevran, for all his supposed lack of morals, really is quite a stand up guy.

[Raiynsong]

regarding Teagan, at some point before the battle I got a dialog string where I asked him about himself. We flirted a bit and then we had to prepare for the night battle.

Then when we were up on the hilll waiting to go to the castle, and he told us about the key before leaving with Isolde, he says something about wishing to meet me at another time.



That's it. not much flirting but more than I expected. and he's really good about it too.

After I let Isolde sacrifice herself, tho, he seemed a bit pissed off with me. Seriously, I didn't much like the way she was eyeing him. she had to die....