534 réponses à ce sujet

[Sialater]

It kills both of them. After all, The Warden is quite a catch.

[Cuddlezarro]

its possible to break up with Alistair without approval loss or alteast nowhere near as big as a hit Zevran takes if you break up with him



plus Zevran doesnt dump you infront of all your friends >_>

[Sabriana]

Sialater wrote...

It kills both of them. After all, The Warden is quite a catch.

I like your statement best, so you must be right

@ Cuddlezarro

That was actually the worst part of it. There was no reason for Alistair to publicly humiliate my 'silly mage'.

@ Creature

I call her that mostly because she fell into the age old trap. She blissfully ignored all the warning signs, lol.

[ejoslin]

You can get Zevran to dump you, but you can see every word destroying him. And yes, it's a private moment at camp. *sigh* With Alistair, if you're decent to him, he doesn't sound heart broken, just . . . sad. Especially if it's after he's fallen in love. With Zevran, if you break up with him, even when he's not in love it's, ugh. If he is in love, it's horrible. And the worst part is, he is so sweet about it, unlike Alistair, who usually is not. Not that Ali is nasty, but he isn't nice either (which is really to be expected -- it's Zevran's reactions which are unusual). I really get the feeling that Zevran wants nothing but the Warden's happiness.

Edit: And I agree that it's the public dumping which is the worst for Alistair.  Either that, or his refusal to talk about it privately later.  If he felt it needed to be done, that's understandable.  But he does it in the most humiliating way possible.  Perhaps he's trying to get the Warden to hate him?

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 février 2010 - 07:10 .

[Sandtigress]

I always felt like it was more like he felt he'd lose his nerve if he didn't do it right then and there, and the presence of everyone else is just bad timing. He does say that he needs to end it now, or it might be impossible for him to do it later. The lack of talking about it privately later is the same thing - he's afraid he'll get talked out of it and knows he can't afford to do that. We all know Alistair's not that great at tackling emotional problems head-long anyways, Mr. I was just hoping the whole heir to the throne thing would go away that he is.

[Sialater]

ejoslin wrote...

You can get Zevran to dump you, but you can see every word destroying him. And yes, it's a private moment at camp. *sigh* With Alistair, if you're decent to him, he doesn't sound heart broken, just . . . sad. Especially if it's after he's fallen in love. With Zevran, if you break up with him, even when he's not in love it's, ugh. If he is in love, it's horrible. And the worst part is, he is so sweet about it, unlike Alistair, who usually is not. Not that Ali is nasty, but he isn't nice either (which is really to be expected -- it's Zevran's reactions which are unusual). I really get the feeling that Zevran wants nothing but the Warden's happiness.

Edit: And I agree that it's the public dumping which is the worst for Alistair.  Either that, or his refusal to talk about it privately later.  If he felt it needed to be done, that's understandable.  But he does it in the most humiliating way possible.  Perhaps he's trying to get the Warden to hate him?

I honestly think both the public dumping and the +approval go back to Al's self esteem issues especially if he's unhardened.  After all, if she hates him, it means he deserves it, right? 

[MisterBellyButtonMan]

Then again Zevran would not do what Alistair does for you in the end, so it is difficult to say which guy is the nicer guy really.

[Sabriana]

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

Then again Zevran would not do what Alistair does for you in the end, so it is difficult to say which guy is the nicer guy really.

Zevran would gladly do it if he could. There is a conversation option in game where he all but says it. You even get a codex entry saying so.

[Creature 1]

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

Then again Zevran would not do what Alistair does for you in the end, so it is difficult to say which guy is the nicer guy really.

He can't.  A Gray Warden has to strike the killing blow.  Unless you do the ritual, and then it really doesn't matter who does it.

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

I always felt like it was more like he felt he'd lose his nerve if he didn't do it right then and there, and the presence of everyone else is just bad timing. He does say that he needs to end it now, or it might be impossible for him to do it later. The lack of talking about it privately later is the same thing - he's afraid he'll get talked out of it and knows he can't afford to do that. We all know Alistair's not that great at tackling emotional problems head-long anyways, Mr. I was just hoping the whole heir to the throne thing would go away that he is.

Agreed.  I think, as he sees it, even his private life is now a public one as king.  If he's hardened, he is able to talked into allowing himself (and your PC) some private happiness, to being a person as well as a king.   But given his inexperience and insecurity, he doesn't trust himself to follow through unless your whole inner circle has heard him vow to do what he sees as right.  I don't think it's at all fair to say that Alistair is not destroyed by what he has to do.  He just does not have the luxury of falling apart over it- he'll not make the same mistake he sees himself as having almost made after Duncan's death.  And let it never be forgotten that he would not be in that position but for the PC putting him there herself.

ejoslin:  When you say Zevran will break up with you, do you mean if you're romancing someone else or is there another circumstance where he'll try to dump you??

[ejoslin]

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

Then again Zevran would not do what Alistair does for you in the end, so it is difficult to say which guy is the nicer guy really.

Of course he would.  He offers, in fact, to die for the PC, not knowing the specifics, just what he's heard in the legends.  

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin:  When you say Zevran will break up with you, do you mean if you're romancing someone else or is there another circumstance where he'll try to dump you??

If, after he declares his feelings, if you tell him you don't feel the same, OR if after asking him if he just proposed, you tell him, "no, that's too much," he breaks it off because he loves you so much he cannot be with you unless you love him back.

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 février 2010 - 07:27 .

[Chanileslie]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

but because Alistair is so stoic about it, if you break up with him, I can tell that it is breaking his heart and he really believes that he deserves nothing better,

you think Alistair's heart is broken if you break up with him? you should break up with Zevran once he has hit "love" status

I have.  He is quite heartbroken as well.  It is why it is hard to choose between the two.

[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...
I really get the feeling that Zevran wants nothing but the Warden's happiness.

Listening to "Just to See You Smile" on YouTube right now.  That song makes me and then want to smack him and yell, "Be a man and move on!" 

[ejoslin]

Further more, about Alistair sacrificing himself. If you two are in the buddy zone, he will ask to take the blow as well -- the major difference is you can tell him no. But he really wants to die and become the king of legends, and he also wants to save your life, as you've saved his dozens of times before. Taking that blow is FAR MORE than just because of love -- there's his sense of duty and honor involved.

Zevran, his only motive for offering to die is his love for the Warden.

Edit: But I'm 99% sure you can have that conversation with Zevran when he's in the friend zone as well.  His loyalty to the Warden is pretty amazing, no matter what.

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 février 2010 - 07:37 .

[ejoslin]

Sandtigress wrote...

I always felt like it was more like he felt he'd lose his nerve if he didn't do it right then and there, and the presence of everyone else is just bad timing. He does say that he needs to end it now, or it might be impossible for him to do it later. The lack of talking about it privately later is the same thing - he's afraid he'll get talked out of it and knows he can't afford to do that. We all know Alistair's not that great at tackling emotional problems head-long anyways, Mr. I was just hoping the whole heir to the throne thing would go away that he is.

It is just so horribly selfish.  You'd think if his feeling really were, ugh, as they seemed (sorry, I don't know how to word this better, and I'm not meaning to offend any fangirls), he'd want to spare her as much pain as possible.  

[Gilded Age]

Zevran, all the way.

Taking into account the humiliation of the public dumping, I can't help but feel that Alistair kind of uses the Fem!PC for sexxytiems and then discards her out of hand when the relationship becomes inconvenient for him. I know that unhardened (heh) Alistair is all about duty/honor/loyalty/whatevs, but... Seriously, he couldn't pull the PC aside and break it to her gently? I mean, I think the public dumping is heinous and completely horrid. Although, maybe that's why he plays it like that... If the PC hates him, then he won't have to worry about some cast-off ex-girlfriend clinging to his ankles as he ascends the throne. If that's the case: well played, Alistair, well played.  I mean that sincerely; I  respect his Machiavellian tatics.

Although, I've never seen Zevran dump a PC, so maybe he's just as crappy about it as Alistair. In that case -- LELIANA, ftw.

Modifié par Gilded Age, 04 février 2010 - 07:49 .

[Creature 1]

Gilded Age wrote...
Taking into account the humiliation of the public dumping, I can't help but feel that Alistair kind of uses the Fem!PC for sexxytiems and then discards her out of hand when the relationship becomes inconvenient for him. I know that unhardened (heh) Alistair is all about duty/honor/loyalty/whatevs, but... Seriously, he couldn't pull the PC aside and break it to her gently? I mean, I think the public dumping is heinous and completely horrid. Although, maybe that's why he plays it like that... If the PC hates him, then he won't have to worry about some cast-off ex-girlfriend clinging to his ankles as he ascends the throne. If that's the case: well played, Alistair, well played.  I mean that sincerely; I  respect his Machiavellian tatics.

I don't think that is entirely what Alistair intends, but that is the effect. 

Although, I've never seen Zevran dump a PC, so maybe he's just as crappy about it as Alistair. In that case -- LELIANA, ftw.

He only dumps you if you get to the point where he tells you that he really cares about you and you say you don't feel the same.  He's very philosophical, says he knew he was being a fool and is proven correct, now don't we have some Gray Warden business to attend to? 

[ejoslin]

Gilded Age wrote...

Although, I've never seen Zevran dump a PC, so maybe he's just as crappy about it as Alistair. In that case -- LELIANA, ftw.

The Zevran breaking up is worth seeing, at least once, because it is so heartbreaking.  It will not drive you to Leliana; it most likely will make you reload, replay the scene, and save it just so you have no record of it happening.  The voice acting really is that good.

[SurelyForth]

I think Alistair remains way too sad about the break-up for it to be something he planned, or genuinely wanted to happen. If you say something about the two of you never having a future he sounds truly upset. There are also some differences between some of his dialogue there if you're 100 Adore v. 100 Love that are meaningful if you're analyzing his feelings/intent. I think once he hits love he does become more distracted (whether by the Blight or by the looming possibility of him becoming king) but he's not using the PC.



I'll admit, I planned my second playthrough around him breaking up with my mage and imagined that her resultant hurt would fuel her in some way. In the end, I was utterly bummed out by how sad he seemed. She was still a little upset at him, but would have given him a big Post-Coronation hug if she could. She became his Chancellor (and pretty much ran the country without him) just so he could still have some freedom.

[MisterBellyButtonMan]

See the conversation I had with Alistair went more along the lines of that he wouldn't let me take the final blow and I had no choice in the matter. Basically out of love with no other motives stated. It was rather noble dialogue actually with none of that glory talk. It's interesting the results people get though depending on things in the game. I like them both as characters actually. At any rate since I got my trophies I can go back to being a dude and romancing Morrigan, whom I have yet to try because she's kind of a beeyotch.

[Sandtigress]

Heck, you can accuse Alistair of using you when he breaks up with you, and he will tell you it wasn't like that at all, and he never meant it to turn out this way, but this is what he has to do. Use the "So...we have sex and that's it?" option. Or you can ask him after the break up if he can just end things so easily and he will tell you, a bit incredulously "You think this is easy?" But he still has to go with what's right - his country before his own heart - and I think that's what makes him great king material.

[Sandtigress]

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

See the conversation I had with Alistair went more along the lines of that he wouldn't let me take the final blow and I had no choice in the matter. Basically out of love with no other motives stated. It was rather noble dialogue actually with none of that glory talk. It's interesting the results people get though depending on things in the game. I like them both as characters actually. At any rate since I got my trophies I can go back to being a dude and romancing Morrigan, whom I have yet to try because she's kind of a beeyotch.

He can say that he wants to be a good king, and the best thing he can do as king would be to end the Blight before it starts, no one could blame him for wanting that.  A female PC that he is in love with can tell him that's not the only reason he's doing it, to which he will admit that he loves her (or still loves her, if he or you broke it off) and won't let you die if he can do something about it.    I will do this ending just to see it, but so far it won't be a canon ending for anyone.  Too sad!  I would rather leave him at the gates and do the sacrifice myself.

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

I think Alistair remains way too sad about the break-up for it to be something he planned, or genuinely wanted to happen. 

He says "I haven't been thinking of anything else since the Landsmeet," so it's obvious to me that it was never planned.  Not that he hadn't thought about the implications for your future, because he obviously had, but was still holding out reserve hope that it would work out somehow.  I think the devs could have thrown us a bone by letting even an unhardened Alistair be talked into keeping his squeeze, just with much more difficulty and possibly a less satisfying result.

Re the public dumping:  It seems a nod is made towards that by the inclusion of the line "is this revenge for making you king?"  Your PC could very well conclude that because she had publicly decided his fate in a way he didn't like, he was returning the favor.  But as I said up above, even if he is doing it because of that, it's because the PC has confirmed his view on his own life:  That he has no right to a private life or private choices.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 février 2010 - 08:42 .

[Sandtigress]

Addai67 wrote...

Re the public dumping:  It seems a nod is made towards that by the inclusion of the line "is this revenge for making you king?"  Your PC could very well conclude that because she had publicly decided his fate in a way he didn't like, he was returning the favor.  But as I said up above, even if he is doing it because of that, it's because the PC has confirmed his view on his own life:  That he has no right to a private life or private choices.

Even in this, Alistair denies it - he says that he didn't want to be king (at least unhardened, I haven't done this part hardened just yet) but that he understands why you did it even so.  Ahh I hate breaking up with/being broken up by Alistair, but its so sweetly tragically romantic that I just can't get away from it...