534 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonvita]

Sandtigress wrote...

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

See the conversation I had with Alistair went more along the lines of that he wouldn't let me take the final blow and I had no choice in the matter. Basically out of love with no other motives stated. It was rather noble dialogue actually with none of that glory talk. It's interesting the results people get though depending on things in the game. I like them both as characters actually. At any rate since I got my trophies I can go back to being a dude and romancing Morrigan, whom I have yet to try because she's kind of a beeyotch.

He can say that he wants to be a good king, and the best thing he can do as king would be to end the Blight before it starts, no one could blame him for wanting that.  A female PC that he is in love with can tell him that's not the only reason he's doing it, to which he will admit that he loves her (or still loves her, if he or you broke it off) and won't let you die if he can do something about it.    I will do this ending just to see it, but so far it won't be a canon ending for anyone.  Too sad!  I would rather leave him at the gates and do the sacrifice myself.

See, the great thing about knowing everything that happens in the game is you know to leave him at the gates so you can sacrifice yourself. But when you take him along, expecting that you can tell him "It's mine!" and he goes and completely shuts you down, it really is so so heartbreaking. That said, it's my canon ending for one PC and it's a perfect ending for her (in the tragic I-would-cry-in-a-corner-if-I-didn't-still-have-Zevran-to-love-me kind of way). I really do respect Alistair, and I don't doubt that he does have deep emotions for the PC, even if events get in the way of it. I just don't really want to romance him again.

[ejoslin]

Heh, just as an aside, you can turn on the Alistair romance while setting a marriage between him and Anora. For some reason, that just strikes me as incredibly funny. Then get gets really upset when you break it off by saying, "there is no 'us'". -36 approval -- all in one conversation. Very much worth the laugh, though actually, it may have been worth keeping it to see how low approval can be for an Alistair-Elissa political match.

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 février 2010 - 09:02 .

[Addai]

Nonvita wrote...
I really do respect Alistair, and I don't doubt that he does have deep emotions for the PC, even if events get in the way of it. I just don't really want to romance him again.

I could see that.  I am on a second HNF run and this one is so different from my first, where I was still kind of caught up in squee-age.  My 2nd Lady Cousland is thinking much more politically and trying to forget that she has feelings for Alistair, lest they get in the way.  She is, in fact, an Alistair in drag, though more self-confident- all about duty and even more about preserving Maric's legacy than Alistair is.  It is difficult to play and I wish I had less spoiler knowledge, because what I think she would do in-character is dump Alistair for the sake of the kingdom, have a fling with Zevran, but for duty's sake decide to sacrifice herself anyway.  She would probably do that without realizing that her fling meant everything to Zevran, though, and I can't bring myself to do it!

Argh, she really needs someone to "harden" her and tell her it's ok to roll the dice a bit (either on Alistair or Zevran) for the sake of some personal happiness.

[MiSsSmOkEy20]

I romanced Alistair in my first/main play through because he looked a lot like my husband that was the main reason.. And I romanced Zevran with my City Elf, Im not done with that play through yet but I like his romance, I like them equally..

[Sialater]

Addai67 wrote...

Nonvita wrote...
I really do respect Alistair, and I don't doubt that he does have deep emotions for the PC, even if events get in the way of it. I just don't really want to romance him again.

I could see that.  I am on a second HNF run and this one is so different from my first, where I was still kind of caught up in squee-age.  My 2nd Lady Cousland is thinking much more politically and trying to forget that she has feelings for Alistair, lest they get in the way.  She is, in fact, an Alistair in drag, though more self-confident- all about duty and even more about preserving Maric's legacy than Alistair is.  It is difficult to play and I wish I had less spoiler knowledge, because what I think she would do in-character is dump Alistair for the sake of the kingdom, have a fling with Zevran, but for duty's sake decide to sacrifice herself anyway.  She would probably do that without realizing that her fling meant everything to Zevran, though, and I can't bring myself to do it!

Argh, she really needs someone to "harden" her and tell her it's ok to roll the dice a bit (either on Alistair or Zevran) for the sake of some personal happiness.

I always use the Deep Roads and Broodmother as a "hardening" for my characters.

[Sandtigress]

Nonvita wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

See the conversation I had with Alistair went more along the lines of that he wouldn't let me take the final blow and I had no choice in the matter. Basically out of love with no other motives stated. It was rather noble dialogue actually with none of that glory talk. It's interesting the results people get though depending on things in the game. I like them both as characters actually. At any rate since I got my trophies I can go back to being a dude and romancing Morrigan, whom I have yet to try because she's kind of a beeyotch.

He can say that he wants to be a good king, and the best thing he can do as king would be to end the Blight before it starts, no one could blame him for wanting that.  A female PC that he is in love with can tell him that's not the only reason he's doing it, to which he will admit that he loves her (or still loves her, if he or you broke it off) and won't let you die if he can do something about it.    I will do this ending just to see it, but so far it won't be a canon ending for anyone.  Too sad!  I would rather leave him at the gates and do the sacrifice myself.

See, the great thing about knowing everything that happens in the game is you know to leave him at the gates so you can sacrifice yourself. But when you take him along, expecting that you can tell him "It's mine!" and he goes and completely shuts you down, it really is so so heartbreaking. That said, it's my canon ending for one PC and it's a perfect ending for her (in the tragic I-would-cry-in-a-corner-if-I-didn't-still-have-Zevran-to-love-me kind of way). I really do respect Alistair, and I don't doubt that he does have deep emotions for the PC, even if events get in the way of it. I just don't really want to romance him again.

Actually, I don't think you even need to know what will happen (I admit I meta-game it a little bit) to not take Alistair along.  He says it himself - Riordan might end it, or either one of you could die before you ever reach the Archdemon.  But no one knows that you're going to get this nice little pause whre you get to decide who's going to kill the thing.  Most likely, someone just gets lucky and kills the thing.  So my PCs, if the dark ritual isn't done, don't take the chance on the future king risking himself and just leave him at the gates and trust to their own skills to get them to the Archdemon.

I don't blame you for not romancing him again - I'm a masochist who has a soft spot for tragic romance since its all I seem to have in my own life, and I adore knightly characters.    Makes it perfect for me, I guess!

[Addai]

Sialater wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Argh, she really needs someone to "harden" her and tell her it's ok to roll the dice a bit (either on Alistair or Zevran) for the sake of some personal happiness.

I always use the Deep Roads and Broodmother as a "hardening" for my characters.

How so?  You mean because they see where they're going to end up as Grey Wardens?

I am thinking it could be the Landsmeet itself.  What I'm contemplating is that she will try to spare Loghain- even now she can't give up the idea that the Hero of River Dane must still be in there somewhere- but the backbone that Alistair suddenly finds will make her truly fall in love with him.   This as opposed to her playful, soulful kind of love at the moment.  She won't want to leave Alistair's side and will take Morrigan's deal, hating herself a bit for doing it, but deciding that Alistair's "shrug and look stupid" approach and penchant for denial could serve them both well in the end.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 février 2010 - 09:28 .

[Sandtigress]

Addai67 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Argh, she really needs someone to "harden" her and tell her it's ok to roll the dice a bit (either on Alistair or Zevran) for the sake of some personal happiness.

I always use the Deep Roads and Broodmother as a "hardening" for my characters.

How so?  You mean because they see where they're going to end up as Grey Wardens?

I am thinking it could be the Landsmeet itself.  What I'm contemplating is that she will try to spare Loghain- even now she can't give up the idea that the Hero of River Dane must still be in there somewhere- but the backbone that Alistair suddenly finds will make her truly fall in love with him.   This as opposed to her playful, soulful kind of love at the moment.  She won't want to leave Alistair's side and will take Morrigan's deal, hating herself a bit for doing it, but deciding that Alistair's "shrug and look stupid" approach and penchant for denial could serve them both well in the end.

lol Just be careful.  I forgot that hardening Alistair's personality changes the dialog options a little, and accidentally ended up with Loghain, with Alistair married to Anora.  Argh!    It turned out to be a good canon ending for my City elf, but this time around, to avoid that, Alistair will fight Loghain so my HNF won't miss out on the chance to marry him.

[ejoslin]

Sandtigress wrote...

lol Just be careful.  I forgot that hardening Alistair's personality changes the dialog options a little, and accidentally ended up with Loghain, with Alistair married to Anora.  Argh!    It turned out to be a good canon ending for my City elf, but this time around, to avoid that, Alistair will fight Loghain so my HNF won't miss out on the chance to marry him.

If you do that, make sure he's in love.  That's one way a purely political match won't happen. Well, if he's hardened that is.

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 février 2010 - 09:48 .

[Sandtigress]

Oh, good thing I was planning on hardening him just before Landsmeet, and then he should be at 100 love, but thanks for the tip. I will make sure of that before we go in. Don't need to screw it up again. :-P

[Sialater]

Addai67 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Argh, she really needs someone to "harden" her and tell her it's ok to roll the dice a bit (either on Alistair or Zevran) for the sake of some personal happiness.

I always use the Deep Roads and Broodmother as a "hardening" for my characters.

How so?  You mean because they see where they're going to end up as Grey Wardens?

I am thinking it could be the Landsmeet itself.  What I'm contemplating is that she will try to spare Loghain- even now she can't give up the idea that the Hero of River Dane must still be in there somewhere- but the backbone that Alistair suddenly finds will make her truly fall in love with him.   This as opposed to her playful, soulful kind of love at the moment.  She won't want to leave Alistair's side and will take Morrigan's deal, hating herself a bit for doing it, but deciding that Alistair's "shrug and look stupid" approach and penchant for denial could serve them both well in the end.

That and just what a wretched hive of scum and villainy that the dwarven city is.  And what the drive to save her people at all costs did to Branka.  I've yet to have a character not walk out of the Deep Roads changed in some way.

[ejoslin]

Sandtigress wrote...

Oh, good thing I was planning on hardening him just before Landsmeet, and then he should be at 100 love, but thanks for the tip. I will make sure of that before we go in. Don't need to screw it up again. :-P

LOL, yeh, if he's hardened and/or not in love with a HNF, he just accepts the kingship. Since I've done a bunch of political marriage only with him, I did find that one out the hard way. And he will marry her at warm (not friendly -- I didn't do his personal quest at all). So now I have to try hostile, but I'm not sure I have it in me for another hostile-Alistair game at the moment.

As an aside, I always feel a bit guilty talking Zevran into staying with my HNF after agreeing to marry Alistair. He obviously is upset by the idea, even after cracking the royal scandal joke. He really has much less of a choice than the non-HNF warden. She has to take some of the blame for the breakup since she made Ali king. Zevran isn't even given the choice.

Edit: added quoted text 

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 février 2010 - 09:59 .

[_Aine_]

ejoslin wrote...

As an aside, I always feel a bit guilty talking Zevran into staying with my HNF after agreeing to marry Alistair. He obviously is upset by the idea, even after cracking the royal scandal joke. He really has much less of a choice than the non-HNF warden. She has to take some of the blame for the breakup since she made Ali king. Zevran isn't even given the choice.

Thank goodness, i seriously thought I was the only one who thought he still looked upset about this, even though joking about it.     That was actually harder to accept as one of the right things to do to create a good ending for all, then some of the difficult game decisions were.... 

[ejoslin]

shantisands wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

As an aside, I always feel a bit guilty talking Zevran into staying with my HNF after agreeing to marry Alistair. He obviously is upset by the idea, even after cracking the royal scandal joke. He really has much less of a choice than the non-HNF warden. She has to take some of the blame for the breakup since she made Ali king. Zevran isn't even given the choice.

Thank goodness, i seriously thought I was the only one who thought he still looked upset about this, even though joking about it.     That was actually harder to accept as one of the right things to do to create a good ending for all, then some of the difficult game decisions were.... 

Heh, his final line, he says

Zevran: Let us continue on, then.  We can always discuss this more later...provided one of us is not eaten by a dragon.  And if so, problem solved!

If he were fine with it, I doubt he'd be referring to it as a problem.  That whole conversation is so sad.  My HNF does not want to be queen, but Alistair is weak (heh NO personal quest done, he truly is) and Anora is power mad and only cares about humans under her rule.  She really has no choice BUT to marry Alistair.  Because Couslands always do their duty.  

Edit: When I play a HNF, she never wants to be married to Alistair or queen, but somehow it keeps on happening!  There was actually a little part of me that was hoping he'd refuse at warm, so she could go off and marry Zevran instead!

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 février 2010 - 10:08 .

[MisterBellyButtonMan]

Huh, my human noble tried to get Anora and Alistair hitched but he wouldn't budge on killing Logain. In fact he never did on any playthrough I had. How do you NOT harden him?

[ejoslin]

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

Huh, my human noble tried to get Anora and Alistair hitched but he wouldn't budge on killing Logain. In fact he never did on any playthrough I had. How do you NOT harden him?

It's very easy not to harden him.  If he is hardened and kills Loghain, either as your champion or if you let him do it afterwards, AND if he is not in love with a HNF or have wedding plans with Anora, after he executes Loghain, he will just accept being king.  He'll still blame you for making him king, mind you, but you don't actually do it in that circumstance.

edit: clarity

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 février 2010 - 10:41 .

[Gilded Age]

Creature 1 wrote...
He only dumps you if you get to the point where he tells you that he really cares about you and you say you don't feel the same.  He's very philosophical, says he knew he was being a fool and is proven correct, now don't we have some Gray Warden business to attend to? 

Aw.  Still, I think that's better than being dumped by surprise and having your entire party witness your romantic humiliation.    

ejoslin wrote...
The Zevran breaking up is worth seeing,
at least once, because it is so heartbreaking.  It will not drive you
to Leliana; it most likely will make you reload, replay the scene, and
save it just so you have no record of it happening.  The voice acting
really is that good.

  I know he's just a bunch of polygons, but I don't know if I could do this, even once!

And - just to clarify my other post: I really don't think that Alistair's break-up was in any way premediated (I would have had more respect for him if it had been).  I think it's very in-character for him.  He's young, not romantically experienced, indecisive, afraid of failure -- and then he's suddenly king.  And he's maybe, possibly, in love with a woman who cannot ever be queen, and then he bungles the break-up badly because of all those aforementioned characteristics: young, inexperienced, etc.

STILL.  While, I totally co-sign on his break-up of a non-Cousland character -- he's just trying to do what is right -- his public dumping of the Warden was a pretty d-bag move, no matter how you slice the dice.  There is a time and place to tell your love interest that it's over.  In front of a large group of people, in a semi-public place...  I don't know.  That's just cruel, in my opinion.

Modifié par Gilded Age, 04 février 2010 - 10:42 .

[MisterBellyButtonMan]

ejoslin wrote...

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

Huh, my human noble tried to get Anora and Alistair hitched but he wouldn't budge on killing Logain. In fact he never did on any playthrough I had. How do you NOT harden him?

It's very easy not to harden him.  If he is hardened and kills Loghain, either as your champion or if you let him do it afterwards, AND if he is not in love with a HNF or have wedding plans with Anora, after he executes Loghain, he will just accept being king.  He'll still blame you for making him king, mind you, but you don't actually do it in that circumstance.

edit: clarity

Interesting. In any case my male Human Noble convinced them to get hitched before the landsmeet but after he kills Loghain she understandably wants nothing to do with him. I got the notion he could somehow be convinced to spare Loghain and marry Anora.

[ejoslin]

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

Huh, my human noble tried to get Anora and Alistair hitched but he wouldn't budge on killing Logain. In fact he never did on any playthrough I had. How do you NOT harden him?

It's very easy not to harden him.  If he is hardened and kills Loghain, either as your champion or if you let him do it afterwards, AND if he is not in love with a HNF or have wedding plans with Anora, after he executes Loghain, he will just accept being king.  He'll still blame you for making him king, mind you, but you don't actually do it in that circumstance.

edit: clarity

Interesting. In any case my male Human Noble convinced them to get hitched before the landsmeet but after he kills Loghain she understandably wants nothing to do with him. I got the notion he could somehow be convinced to spare Loghain and marry Anora.

You can spare Loghain and have Alistair and Anora marry, but you have to kill Loghain yourself.  She won't marry her father's murderer.

Edit: punctuation -- I was throwing semi-colons around

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 février 2010 - 10:48 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Interesting. In any case my male Human Noble convinced them to get hitched before the landsmeet but after he kills Loghain she understandably wants nothing to do with him. I got the notion he could somehow be convinced to spare Loghain and marry Anora.

if by spare loghain you mean "have loghain join your party and alistair marry anora" you can Alistair will absolutely hate you for it(he pretty much explodes if you try to talk to him at eamons post landmeet and his post coronation dialogue is laced with so much venomous sarcasm it isnt even funny...) and you need to harden him but you need to convince him and anora to marry before the landsmeet

[SurelyForth]

Gilded Age wrote...
STILL.  While, I totally co-sign on his break-up of a non-Cousland character -- he's just trying to do what is right -- his public dumping of the Warden was a pretty d-bag move, no matter how you slice the dice.  There is a time and place to tell your love interest that it's over.  In front of a large group of people, in a semi-public place...  I don't know.  That's just cruel, in my opinion.

Actually, all your companions are jerks for not excusing themselves after the "We need to talk". Of course, the whole relationship has taken place with them watching every move, it would seem weird for them to suddenly give you some privacy.

Re: Alistair if you spare Loghain:

I sort of loved Alistair at the Post-Coronation when I married him to Anora to spare Loghain. His bitterness is glorious. I made Loghain do the ritual, so he and I were both still around  to rub it in that being a Warden is awesome (even though it really sucked for my PC, she wasn't about to let Alistair know that after his snide remark about her always being lucky).

Modifié par SurelyForth, 04 février 2010 - 10:58 .

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

Gilded Age wrote...
STILL.  While, I totally co-sign on his break-up of a non-Cousland character -- he's just trying to do what is right -- his public dumping of the Warden was a pretty d-bag move, no matter how you slice the dice.  There is a time and place to tell your love interest that it's over.  In front of a large group of people, in a semi-public place...  I don't know.  That's just cruel, in my opinion.

Actually, all your companions are jerks for not excusing themselves after the "We need to talk". Of course, the whole relationship has taken place with them watching every move, it would seem weird for them to suddenly give you some privacy.

This I have to disagree with. You have a room full of people, "we have to talk," should be followed by, "in the other room."  Alistair is the one who initiated the conversation, he made it personal before anyone had a chance to leave.  I don't think I would have the presence of mind to leave if that situation happened to me IRL -- it would be too startling.

[AnniLau]

SurelyForth wrote...

Actually, all your companions are jerks for not excusing themselves after the "We need to talk". Of course, the whole relationship has taken place with them watching every move, it would seem weird for them to suddenly give you some privacy.

I imagine them fleeing into the kitchen behind me.

[Sabriana]

MisterBellyButtonMan wrote...

Huh, my human noble tried to get Anora and Alistair hitched but he wouldn't budge on killing Logain. In fact he never did on any playthrough I had. How do you NOT harden him?

As far as I know, there is no way that Alistair will ever agree to be a Grey Warden with Loghain.
If the PC has arranged an Anora/Alistair marriage before the Landsmeet, he will still leave the group, but he will marry Anora.

Spoilerish


If the PC lets Loghain take the death blow (no god-baby for Morrigan), Alistair tells her that he is no longer angry, and he's actually pretty nice to the PC.

If the PC takes Morrigan's offer, and Loghain doesn't die, boy is he p'oed at the PC afterward. Wow.
But I tell you, the Loghain/Morrigan ritual 'before' talk had me in stitches. That was really funny.

Alistair will only get  hardened if you choose the "People are out for themselves..." line after the Goldanna visit. There is a follow-up conversation in camp, but it's pretty easy to discern which dialogue lines to pick to confirm the 'out for themselves' statement.

I just re-played an older save, and after my amazon accepted the earring the second time, chose the "It's too much" dialogue again. I simply wanted to see if I remembered some lines correctly.

I tell you, even after having seen it several times (and duly reloaded), it still is gut-wrenching.

I nominate Zevran and his VA for the Oscar. Yeah.

[Addai]

Heh, yes- they have practically been voyeurs the whole time! (+5 Oghren approves. LOL ) Though the Alistair tent scenes seem to have a bit sturdier tent flaps than the Zevran ones, for some reason.