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[Freckles04]

Sialater wrote...

No, unhardened, he's the Duty Bound Knight. Irritatingly duty focused to the detriment of his own happiness.

Hence my martyr comment. He's got a bit of a victim mentality if you don't harden him. He lets everyone make his decisions for him and goes along with those decisions, all the while hating it and resenting it.

I always harden him because it makes him realize he does have value, his opinions are valid, and maybe it's okay to think for himself and stand up for himself. When he does this, the conclusion that he comes to is that he WANTS to be king, because he feels he can do a good job at it. He knows what's required, how to lead, even if he doesn't want to.

Maybe I'm drawn to the tragic nature of the Alistair romance. I wonder if, even as Queen, it will truly be a happy ending come Awakenings. There is so much sitting between Alistair and Lady Cousland -- the ritual, the lack of an heir, etc. For the other romance possibilities, for all that it would be wonderful if Alistair would say "forget them all, I'll marry who I choose!", by not doing so he acknowledges that there are things larger and more important to the world than your relationship with him: the well-being of the country, the defeat of the Blight, etc. It's a very kingly attitude, and it resonates with me.

[Sandtigress]

Agreed, Freckles. As you and I have said before, there's a lot of Maric in Alistair. Maric did what he had to for his country as well, and Ferelden turned out well because of it. I see the same thing happening for Alistair.



I'm wringing my hands over hardening him this time around, with my HNF. Maybe I'll go with it both ways, I suppose I really just need to stop seeing the hardening thing as a one time event and think of it more as the culmination of what she would be doing naturally - instilling self-confidence and independence in him because she believes in him and sees him doing great things.

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

Agreed, Freckles. As you and I have said before, there's a lot of Maric in Alistair. Maric did what he had to for his country as well, and Ferelden turned out well because of it. I see the same thing happening for Alistair.

It's an aside but since I'm reading The Stolen Throne, I have to picture the discussion I wish my HNF could have with Loghain at the end:  "This is Maric's son, and you of all people look down on him because he's a commoner who came from nothing.  I'm a Cousland and he is a Theirin, and you think the two of us would let the Orlesians anywhere near this throne?!  If it still exists after the Blight.  We all should have been allies.  You were a hero of mine.  You betrayed us more surely than any Orlesian bootlicker could have."  And Alistair might be seeing red at that point because of Duncan, but I think she'd have tears in her eyes as she executes Loghain.

Modifié par Addai67, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:48 .

[EnchantedEyes1]

I'm just going to chime in briefly here since many of you have made some insightful and interesting comparisons between the two. What I love about this game is that clearly these two characters elicit such powerful feelings from such a different range of players. I always find myself in a pickle between Alistair and Zevran because both romances are hard for me to pass up

If I play totally based on my feelings, I end up with both of them in love with me. I have only been successful at keeping one at bay by making choices I wouldn't normally make.

Zevran is the hands down choice for my elf female characters and my mage. HFN has a harder time choosing between them because of her sense of duty due to her origin. I think Alistair would have been a hands down choice for her had Alistair not chosen to dump her after the Landsmeet. What I don't like about this is that given his own choice, he chooses to dump her and pleads "duty." If SHE has high enough persuasion before the Landsmeet and chooses for him, he just accepts it regardless of his sense of duty.

I do recognize that importance of the different factors affecting both Zev and Alistair's decisions regarding the PC but in the end I have to ask with whom does my PC feel more cherished. For me, it's Zevran. I also just have to add that I am in love with his looks. Ever since Legolas from LOTR made an onscreen presence I have a thing for blond elves. Also, have you seen Zevran's legs??? LOL

[Thiefy]

On Alistiar not saying something about HNF - while I would have really loved him to just come out and say something for once, hardened or not, I think this may have been a more strategic choice on Bioware's part. That way, it's doesn't seem like the game os Alistair *favors* HNF over the other origins, besides the fact that it is the only origin to get the Queen ending.

[ejoslin]

Alistair's marriage to the HNF really doesn't have anything to do with love. I am a bit of a broken record on this, but Alistair is more than willing to marry a Cousland who has never romanced him. It is an extremely good match as far as uniting the country goes. Bryce Cousland was the most powerful man aside from the king, and many nobles thought he should be king. The HNF has one up on Anora that she is of noble blood, and Anora is not (and Anora will admit that in the HNM playthrough if he arranges to marry her -- Cousland blood gives legitimacy to her claim to the throne). For Alistair, marrying the HNF makes political sense, though he won't do it if the HNF doesn't place herself there.

Now, keeping in mind that Howe is dead but the HN is expected to go back and get Highever back, and since no one knows Fergus is still alive, she very possibly is the Teyrna of Highever, she is extremely powerful. Even if Fergus is alive, and even though the house is in shambles, she is still a Cousland.

Edit: and on another topic, to those who disagree that Alistair's lack of approval loss for dumping him is not a sign of him not looking towards the future, do you think he WAS looking towards the future when starting the relationship?  I can see him agreeing with the female warden that they don't have a future together and maybe it is best to end it, in fact, I agree with that if that is the point.  But the even being IN the relationship, how could he have been considering the future rather than just the present?  Because that was a conclusion, had he been looking at outcomes, that he should have been able to reach.

That doesn't take away from the Alistair romance, which is beautiful and intense in its own right.  It's just . . . I find it an interesting concept that the romance that looks sweeter and more committed is actually based on the present and yet the romance that looks like it's all about the moment actually has to have a future acknowledged before it even begins.  I love that about both of the romances.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:12 .

[Sialater]

But supposedly, the titles mean jack since we're all Grey Wardens.

[ejoslin]

Sialater wrote...

But supposedly, the titles mean jack since we're all Grey Wardens.

They do mean something in practice though.  You always have options to point out that you're the daughter of a Teryn, even Wynne will call you "my lady," though you can choose to dissuade her (you don't have to though).  You have an offer from a noble to give you bowmen to get your Teyrn back, and in fact, Anora offers that to you as well, and other nobles acknowledging you as a Cousland.  We're not talking a minor lord -- we're talking possibly the only surviving child of the second most powerful family in Ferelden.

Edit: Plus again, in the HNM play through, when arranging to marry Anora, she acknowledges that a Cousland husband will give her claim to the throne a legitimacy that she doesn't currently have.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:17 .

[Sialater]

I agree they mean something in practice, but technically, we're not supposed to be titled anymore and Al's not supposed to try to be King.



But, we are the only GW's left and I guess what we say goes.



I was thinking this morning, if Anora never gives up her claim to the Throne, she rots in that tower, or gets beheaded, we're never told, but that still leaves her fathers Ternyr open. And if she stays queen it's still open.

[SurelyForth]

You can become Teryn/a of Gwaren as one of your boons, I think. It's what you are given if you ask for "A title and the riches to go with it". I don't know if this is eligible for all origins or not.

[SidheKate]

Addai67 wrote...

It's an aside but since I'm reading The Stolen Throne, I have to picture the
discussion I wish my HNF could have with Loghain at the end:  "This
is Maric's son, and you of all people look down on him because he's a
commoner who came from nothing.  I'm a Cousland and he is a Theirin, and
you think the two of us would let the Orlesians anywhere near this
throne?!  If it still exists after the Blight.  We all should have
been allies.  You were a hero of mine.  You betrayed us more surely
than any Orlesian bootlicker could have."  And Alistair might be
seeing red at that point because of Duncan, but I think she'd have tears
in her eyes as she executes Loghain.

I agree with this.  I always wish my HNF could say something to the effect of, "go to the Maker's side knowing that Ferelden will not fall."  But Landsmeet skips over Riordan's idea if Alistair is the one to fight Loghain, which I find more fitting than fighting him myself.  


I love Zev's romance, but I actually feel like you have to work for that one.  At the same time that Zev is keeping his emotional distance, Alistair is embracing the relationship.  I agree with the many others who say that the relationship arcs are nearly impossible to compare because they take such different curves.  In the end, though, I tend to prefer the Alistair track.  I have an easier time seeing the joy in Alistair’s love - and from that his healing from the past - than I do in the quiet opening of Zev’s heart.

And yes, my husband screeched when I jumped out from hiding and tackled him while screaming, “DARKSPAWN ATTACK” …
much the way I imagine Alistair would.  :innocent:

Modifié par SidheKate, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:25 .

[Sialater]

SurelyForth wrote...

You can become Teryn/a of Gwaren as one of your boons, I think. It's what you are given if you ask for "A title and the riches to go with it". I don't know if this is eligible for all origins or not.

I remember that choice from my mage playthrough, didn't know that was the result, though.  My HNF hasn't killed the archdemon yet, I got sidetracked by trying to save the galaxy again.  But she'll be queen, anyway.

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

You can become Teryn/a of Gwaren as one of your boons, I think. It's what you are given if you ask for "A title and the riches to go with it". I don't know if this is eligible for all origins or not.

It is, but unless you're of noble blood, it doesn't count for that much considering that people think of Anora as the daughter of a commoner despite that being her father's old Teyrnir.  The Couslands are an old, old family and it surprises me that despite the codex entry about many feeling Bryce should be king, no one but the warden is pointing out that they should get married to Alistair/Anora.  But Anora, to her credit, understands immediately how advantagous that marriage would be.  It is probably the best ending, with Ferelden entering a golden age.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:29 .

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

Alistair's marriage to the HNF really doesn't have anything to do with love. I am a bit of a broken record on this, but Alistair is more than willing to marry a Cousland who has never romanced him. It is an extremely good match as far as uniting the country goes. Bryce Cousland was the most powerful man aside from the king, and many nobles thought he should be king. The HNF has one up on Anora that she is of noble blood, and Anora is not (and Anora will admit that in the HNM playthrough if he arranges to marry her -- Cousland blood gives legitimacy to her claim to the throne). For Alistair, marrying the HNF makes political sense, though he won't do it if the HNF doesn't place herself there.

Now, keeping in mind that Howe is dead but the HN is expected to go back and get Highever back, and since no one knows Fergus is still alive, she very possibly is the Teyrna of Highever, she is extremely powerful. Even if Fergus is alive, and even though the house is in shambles, she is still a Cousland.

Edit: and on another topic, to those who disagree that Alistair's lack of approval loss for dumping him is not a sign of him not looking towards the future, do you think he WAS looking towards the future when starting the relationship?  I can see him agreeing with the female warden that they don't have a future together and maybe it is best to end it, in fact, I agree with that if that is the point.  But the even being IN the relationship, how could he have been considering the future rather than just the present?  Because that was a conclusion, had he been looking at outcomes, that he should have been able to reach.

That doesn't take away from the Alistair romance, which is beautiful and intense in its own right.  It's just . . . I find it an interesting concept that the romance that looks sweeter and more committed is actually based on the present and yet the romance that looks like it's all about the moment actually has to have a future acknowledged before it even begins.  I love that about both of the romances.

Actually, it's an extremely bad match in that without an heir, the kingdom will be at war over sucession again in 30 year (more or less), assuming that Alistair doesn't die in a war before then. Alistair will not marry the PC of his own volition, and rightly so, It's bad for Fereldan. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to as he can be persuaded by the suggestion, but it's not something he will suggest himself. I can't say why he's willing to marry the PC without a romance, but it seems to be one of those things that exists in the game purely for roleplaying purposes, and not because of any internal character logic, sort of like being able to make Wynne a bloodmage.

[Thiefy]

SidheKate wrote...

And yes, my husband screeched when I jumped out from hiding and tackled him while screaming, “DARKSPAWN ATTACK” …
much the way I imagine Alistair would.  :innocent:

bwuahaha i had a huge grin on my face and lol'd when i read that

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...


Actually, it's an extremely bad match in that without an heir, the kingdom will be at war over sucession again in 30 year (more or less), assuming that Alistair doesn't die in a war before then. Alistair will not marry the PC of his own volition, and rightly so, It's bad for Fereldan. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to as he can be persuaded by the suggestion, but it's not something he will suggest himself. I can't say why he's willing to marry the PC without a romance, but it seems to be one of those things that exists in the game purely for roleplaying purposes, and not because of any internal character logic, sort of like being able to make Wynne a bloodmage.

If the goal is to avert civil war, it's a good match.  And at least in a political marriage, my HNF makes it VERY clear to Alistair that she is going to try to get pregnant by someone else, and his response is he should be glad to hear that.  And I understand completely why he's willing to marry a non-romanced Cousland, it is to unite the country.  And a non-romanced political marriage to Alistair actually presents the HNF in an extremely strong and positive light in her epilogue card.  The people adore their savior and new ruler, and Alistair gives her the leeway to do as she pleases.  

If the heir is the primary concern, then it is best to leave the country to Anora and hope she will do the right thing and marry someone.  Of course, after 5 years of marriage she hadn't gotten pregnant before, but that could be about Cailin as well, though I think the assumption is that she's barren as well.

I know many don't like to hear that even a HNF marriage to Alistair isn't about love -- but if it were about love, he wouldn't marry her for political reasons.  The line when he brings up having an heir, if romanced you get, "It's not for lack of trying," but when not-romanced, it's "Well, that thought deserves and awkward pause," though I always select, "At least, not YOUR heir."  

The good thing about Alistair marrying the HNF for political reasons only is they both have a better chance of having a child.  Alistair's would be a bastard, the HNF I would assume would be acknowledged as Alistair's.  

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...


Actually, it's an extremely bad match in that without an heir, the kingdom will be at war over sucession again in 30 year (more or less), assuming that Alistair doesn't die in a war before then. Alistair will not marry the PC of his own volition, and rightly so, It's bad for Fereldan. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to as he can be persuaded by the suggestion, but it's not something he will suggest himself. I can't say why he's willing to marry the PC without a romance, but it seems to be one of those things that exists in the game purely for roleplaying purposes, and not because of any internal character logic, sort of like being able to make Wynne a bloodmage.

If the goal is to avert civil war, it's a good match.  And at least in a political marriage, my HNF makes it VERY clear to Alistair that she is going to try to get pregnant by someone else, and his response is he should be glad to hear that.  And I understand completely why he's willing to marry a non-romanced Cousland, it is to unite the country.  And a non-romanced political marriage to Alistair actually presents the HNF in an extremely strong and positive light in her epilogue card.  The people adore their savior and new ruler, and Alistair gives her the leeway to do as she pleases.  

If the heir is the primary concern, then it is best to leave the country to Anora and hope she will do the right thing and marry someone.  Of course, after 5 years of marriage she hadn't gotten pregnant before, but that could be about Cailin as well, though I think the assumption is that she's barren as well.

I know many don't like to hear that even a HNF marriage to Alistair isn't about love -- but if it were about love, he wouldn't marry her for political reasons.  The line when he brings up having an heir, if romanced you get, "It's not for lack of trying," but when not-romanced, it's "Well, that thought deserves and awkward pause," though I always select, "At least, not YOUR heir."  

The good thing about Alistair marrying the HNF for political reasons only is they both have a better chance of having a child.  Alistair's would be a bastard, the HNF I would assume would be acknowledged as Alistair's.  

Heh, I tend to forget about the 'not your heir' option because I find it distasteful, but point taken. Personally, I think Anora is, as Alistair says, not an option and, as you say, barren. I also think that while one can justify the dark ritual for a number of reasons, there is no scenario where marrying Alistair isn't selfish or self-serving, for power or love. Doesn't mean my characters don's sometimes do it--Wynne is correct, love is selfish, but it doesn't mean it's good for Fereldan.

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...


Actually, it's an extremely bad match in that without an heir, the kingdom will be at war over sucession again in 30 year (more or less), assuming that Alistair doesn't die in a war before then. Alistair will not marry the PC of his own volition, and rightly so, It's bad for Fereldan. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to as he can be persuaded by the suggestion, but it's not something he will suggest himself. I can't say why he's willing to marry the PC without a romance, but it seems to be one of those things that exists in the game purely for roleplaying purposes, and not because of any internal character logic, sort of like being able to make Wynne a bloodmage.

If the goal is to avert civil war, it's a good match.  And at least in a political marriage, my HNF makes it VERY clear to Alistair that she is going to try to get pregnant by someone else, and his response is he should be glad to hear that.  And I understand completely why he's willing to marry a non-romanced Cousland, it is to unite the country.  And a non-romanced political marriage to Alistair actually presents the HNF in an extremely strong and positive light in her epilogue card.  The people adore their savior and new ruler, and Alistair gives her the leeway to do as she pleases.  

If the heir is the primary concern, then it is best to leave the country to Anora and hope she will do the right thing and marry someone.  Of course, after 5 years of marriage she hadn't gotten pregnant before, but that could be about Cailin as well, though I think the assumption is that she's barren as well.

I know many don't like to hear that even a HNF marriage to Alistair isn't about love -- but if it were about love, he wouldn't marry her for political reasons.  The line when he brings up having an heir, if romanced you get, "It's not for lack of trying," but when not-romanced, it's "Well, that thought deserves and awkward pause," though I always select, "At least, not YOUR heir."  

The good thing about Alistair marrying the HNF for political reasons only is they both have a better chance of having a child.  Alistair's would be a bastard, the HNF I would assume would be acknowledged as Alistair's.  

Heh, I tend to forget about the 'not your heir' option because I find it distasteful, but point taken. Personally, I think Anora is, as Alistair says, not an option and, as you say, barren. I also think that while one can justify the dark ritual for a number of reasons, there is no scenario where marrying Alistair isn't selfish or self-serving, for power or love. Doesn't mean my characters don's sometimes do it--Wynne is correct, love is selfish, but it doesn't mean it's good for Fereldan.

Or, the other possibility -- the HNF thinks Alistair is weak and Anora is power mad and hasn't done a good job ruling the country, and she knows what a good leader she is and thinks she is Ferelden's best chance at rebuilding.  And Alistair apparently is happy to continue following her lead after they're married.

Edit: And I find the "not your heir" option not so distasteful as she does have her lover.  I think the person THAT scenario is most unfair to is actually Zevran if she does get pregnant.  But all three are going into the situation with their eyes wide open.  Though only the warden and Zevran actually discuss it, Alistair MUST know.

Second edit: misc stuff because I do that.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:59 .

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...


Actually, it's an extremely bad match in that without an heir, the kingdom will be at war over sucession again in 30 year (more or less), assuming that Alistair doesn't die in a war before then. Alistair will not marry the PC of his own volition, and rightly so, It's bad for Fereldan. It doesn't mean he doesn't want to as he can be persuaded by the suggestion, but it's not something he will suggest himself. I can't say why he's willing to marry the PC without a romance, but it seems to be one of those things that exists in the game purely for roleplaying purposes, and not because of any internal character logic, sort of like being able to make Wynne a bloodmage.

If the goal is to avert civil war, it's a good match.  And at least in a political marriage, my HNF makes it VERY clear to Alistair that she is going to try to get pregnant by someone else, and his response is he should be glad to hear that.  And I understand completely why he's willing to marry a non-romanced Cousland, it is to unite the country.  And a non-romanced political marriage to Alistair actually presents the HNF in an extremely strong and positive light in her epilogue card.  The people adore their savior and new ruler, and Alistair gives her the leeway to do as she pleases.  

If the heir is the primary concern, then it is best to leave the country to Anora and hope she will do the right thing and marry someone.  Of course, after 5 years of marriage she hadn't gotten pregnant before, but that could be about Cailin as well, though I think the assumption is that she's barren as well.

I know many don't like to hear that even a HNF marriage to Alistair isn't about love -- but if it were about love, he wouldn't marry her for political reasons.  The line when he brings up having an heir, if romanced you get, "It's not for lack of trying," but when not-romanced, it's "Well, that thought deserves and awkward pause," though I always select, "At least, not YOUR heir."  

The good thing about Alistair marrying the HNF for political reasons only is they both have a better chance of having a child.  Alistair's would be a bastard, the HNF I would assume would be acknowledged as Alistair's.  

Heh, I tend to forget about the 'not your heir' option because I find it distasteful, but point taken. Personally, I think Anora is, as Alistair says, not an option and, as you say, barren. I also think that while one can justify the dark ritual for a number of reasons, there is no scenario where marrying Alistair isn't selfish or self-serving, for power or love. Doesn't mean my characters don's sometimes do it--Wynne is correct, love is selfish, but it doesn't mean it's good for Fereldan.

Or, the other possibility -- the HNF thinks Alistair is weak and Anora is power mad and hasn't done a good job ruling the country, and she knows what a good leader she is and thinks she is Ferelden's best chance at rebuilding.  And Alistair apparently is happy to continue following her lead after they're married.

Edit: And I find the "not your heir" option not so distasteful as she does have her lover.  I think the person THAT scenario is most unfair to is actually Zevran if she does get pregnant.  But all three are going into the situation with their eyes wide open.  Though only the warden and Zevran actually discuss it, Alistair MUST know.

Second edit: misc stuff because I do that.

Having a lover desn't make it any less distasteful to me. It just means that Alistair knows who the father will be--a man he doesn't like at all.

From a role-playing perspective, of course that's valid, although I would argue that the responses from Alistair proves that wrong by his inability to be swayed when he believes something strongly. Not much point in going back and forth about that, though as your mileage clearly varies.

Modifié par errant_knight, 29 janvier 2010 - 07:05 .

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

From a role-playing perspective, of course that's valid, although I would argue that the responses from Alistair proves that wrong by his inability to be swayed when he believes something strongly. Not much point in going back and forth about that, though as your mileage clearly varies.

Oh, I'm not arguing whether Alistair is weak or strong, but what the human noble must think after leading him for a year and making every decision and political maneuver on her own.  Whether he's actually weak or not is a whole different discussion.  And again, if she does marry him for purely political reasons, she IS the savior and new ruler, which is pretty cool.

Edit: And it's just trying to point out that marrying Alistair is not necessarily done out of selfishness.  The HNF may be acting in the way she believes is the absolute best for Ferelden.  She can even tell that to Alistair, that she's not crazy about it, but she thinks it's for the best.  My HNF would far rather be married to someone else.  But duty calls.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 07:06 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: And I find the "not your heir" option not so distasteful as she does have her lover.  I think the person THAT scenario is most unfair to is actually Zevran if she does get pregnant.  But all three are going into the situation with their eyes wide open.  Though only the warden and Zevran actually discuss it, Alistair MUST know.

However, it's distasteful also in that a) you will be deceiving the country that they have a Theirin heir, not just in one generation but for perpetuity; and the child will have to publicly claim paternity that isn't really his and treat his own father as "mama's friend."

Not that there is any good option when it comes to the heir, but just saying.  I still hold out hope for a fix to the taint problem and a legitimate heir!

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: And I find the "not your heir" option not so distasteful as she does have her lover.  I think the person THAT scenario is most unfair to is actually Zevran if she does get pregnant.  But all three are going into the situation with their eyes wide open.  Though only the warden and Zevran actually discuss it, Alistair MUST know.

However, it's distasteful also in that a) you will be deceiving the country that they have a Theirin heir, not just in one generation but for perpetuity; and the child will have to publicly claim paternity that isn't really his and treat his own father as "mama's friend."

Not that there is any good option when it comes to the heir, but just saying.  I still hold out hope for a fix to the taint problem and a legitimate heir!

It's not ideal for sure, but again, many wanted Bryce Cousland as king.  The HN really has a very strong bloodline as well.  And in this situation, there's no great solution; just trying to do the absolute best for the country.

Edit: and yes, I said the person it would be most unfair to is Zevran.  As far as what is known and not known, I'm not sure, but since a human + elf = human, there probably wouldn't be any questioning anyway.  I don't think it would matter to a child raised to be the future king unless he were to find out at some future date.  But I don't think court life is quite like family life as we know it, so "momma's friend" I don't think would be an issue.  Besides, my warden for some reason has time to rebuild the gray wardens with Zevran anyway.  So there probably is no heir.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 07:12 .

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: And I find the "not your heir" option not so distasteful as she does have her lover.  I think the person THAT scenario is most unfair to is actually Zevran if she does get pregnant.  But all three are going into the situation with their eyes wide open.  Though only the warden and Zevran actually discuss it, Alistair MUST know.

However, it's distasteful also in that a) you will be deceiving the country that they have a Theirin heir, not just in one generation but for perpetuity; and the child will have to publicly claim paternity that isn't really his and treat his own father as "mama's friend."

Not that there is any good option when it comes to the heir, but just saying.  I still hold out hope for a fix to the taint problem and a legitimate heir!

Yeah, there truly is no 'good' ending. Either there's no heir, the paternity of the heir is a lie, Alistair is as unfaithful to Anora/unknown bride as his father or Cailen, Anora is queen and Alistair has to give up the right to the throne for his bloodline, or has to sacrifice his/the PC's happiness. Well, that's not true. You could never romance Alistair, harden him and make him king, but that's not a 'good' ending either, as he misses out on the love that's the only real happiness he's ever known. Dark fantasy, indeed.

[Sisimka]

Addai67 wrote...


OTOH, you can have a happy ending with Alistair even if you aren't queen.  At least, if you and your character are willing either to put Anora on the throne or make yourself a mistress.  I've said it else-thread, but the most romantic ending any of my characters had with him was Dalish warden who set him up with Anora and went off to restore the Wardens (with Zevran as friend in tow!).  The epilogue said that at some point Alistair leaves the throne to join his love full-time and never leaves her side.  I'll take it.

I've not had that ending, I'll have to try it out.  The only time I set him up with Anora was when I recruited Loghain and I was in a romance with Zevran that playthrough anyway.  I might have to try this scenario with an old save...

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

Yeah, there truly is no 'good' ending. Either there's no heir, the paternity of the heir is a lie, Alistair is as unfaithful to Anora/unknown bride as his father or Cailen, Anora is queen and Alistair has to give up the right to the throne for his bloodline, or has to sacrifice his/the PC's happiness. Well, that's not true. You could never romance Alistair, harden him and make him king, but that's not a 'good' ending either, as he misses out on the love that's the only real happiness he's ever known. Dark fantasy, indeed.

In my scenario, Alistair is never romanced.  Even if romanced and dumped, the PC is not seen as the strong ruler in her own right.  Since Alistair stays in love if ever romanced, I think it's cruel to marry him and have a lover -- THAT would be a bitter pill.  I would hope that Alistair would find a mistress who would make him very happy, though, and possibly have children with her.  THAT would be the ideal solution for my HNF.

Edit: And Alistair and Zevran end up as friends of a sort.  If you sacrifice yourself, he sticks around for awhile working for the throne while mourning.  Actually, their dialogs do show that they become friends, I think.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 07:18 .