534 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

Posioned wrote...

I'm more of a Alistair fan. I don't really see my character acting as a mother to him at all. There is many points I like about him, but it's also fine that other don't. With Zevran at first I really didn't like him. I find him kind of slimy. Although now that I know his backstory I like him a little bit more now.

I agree.  I don't feel like any kind of mother to Alistair.  I like his humor and found him comfortable to be around.  Zevran made me uncomfortable.  I always like taking my "love" interest with me and with Zevran was always hitting on the other females.  I finally left him at the camp and enjoyed it a lot more.   I like his conversations my my character just not his general behavior. 

I think they are both very good characters and well developed, but my personal preference is someone like Alistair. I always choose the Riley Finn or Rick Castle over Angel or House to spend quality time with.  

[Sialater]

ejoslin wrote...


Edit: And Alistair and Zevran end up as friends of a sort.  If you sacrifice yourself, he sticks around for awhile working for the throne while mourning.  Actually, their dialogs do show that they become friends, I think.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that. 

[Jayelet]

my second wife noble human sera only and exclusively to give the throne to a son Zevran ... just imagine the faces of the noble humans, when they have a half-elf on the throne ... I love the idea, my mind is evil.

[Sialater]

Uh, depending on your interpretation of the timeline, they already do.

[ejoslin]

Yes, elf + human = human in Thedas. And I'm not TOUCHING the potential spoiler there!

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 07:56 .

[Freckles04]

Sialater wrote...

ejoslin wrote...


Edit: And Alistair and Zevran end up as friends of a sort.  If you sacrifice yourself, he sticks around for awhile working for the throne while mourning.  Actually, their dialogs do show that they become friends, I think.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that. 

Me three. Surprisingly, the line that cements the Alistair and Zevran friendship for me is when you tell Alistair that you choose Zevran over him. He responds, "Zev's a lucky bastard."

Why? Well, Zev says when you first meet him that his friends call him Zev. And for Alistair to call him that when he's obviously hurt says a great deal to me.

[mopotter]

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I think those who say you have to mother Alistair have never been the wife of a man. A normal man, that is, not the 1 in 1,000,000 who pick up their dirty socks off the floor and clean up after their messes in the kitchen. Alistair is no more a "child" than any of them. Being vulnerable and shy + gentlemanly in your first intimate relationship hardly qualifies as childish.

Please don't insult my husband.  Who is the most amazing man I've ever met -- and I say that after being with him for a couple of decades.  Of course, I AM married to someone who picks up his own socks and cleans up after himself.  

My father was the one who would be watching tv and call me in from 3 rooms away to change the channel for him.   and my grandfather would go out in the mud and muck drive his tractor with his white shirt on, invite 10 men over for lunch and my grandmother handled it all without a trace of irritation.  

I could have married a very nice guy just like them, but I wasn't interested, I would have rather been single till death.  But I also  found one who can take care of himself and is a better cook than I am.  One of those 1 in a million.  He is funny and still makes me laugh till I can't breath and Alistair gives me that same humor.  At least for me.    

[Sandtigress]

Freckles04 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

ejoslin wrote...


Edit: And Alistair and Zevran end up as friends of a sort.  If you sacrifice yourself, he sticks around for awhile working for the throne while mourning.  Actually, their dialogs do show that they become friends, I think.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that. 

Me three. Surprisingly, the line that cements the Alistair and Zevran friendship for me is when you tell Alistair that you choose Zevran over him. He responds, "Zev's a lucky bastard."

Why? Well, Zev says when you first meet him that his friends call him Zev. And for Alistair to call him that when he's obviously hurt says a great deal to me.

You know, I never took that line as a guilt trip like some of the others have said.  I took it more as his way of trying to say, hurt as he was, that you were a wonderful person and he wished it could have been him that you chose i.e. that Zev is lucky that you picked him.  Sure, it might make you feel a little guilty, but I never thought that Alistair meant it in a manipulative way, more of  a jealous but honest sentiment.

[Sandtigress]

Addai67 wrote...

OTOH, you can have a happy ending with Alistair even if you aren't queen.  At least, if you and your character are willing either to put Anora on the throne or make yourself a mistress.  I've said it else-thread, but the most romantic ending any of my characters had with him was Dalish warden who set him up with Anora and went off to restore the Wardens (with Zevran as friend in tow!).  The epilogue said that at some point Alistair leaves the throne to join his love full-time and never leaves her side.  I'll take it.

Addai, what were the conditions for this?  Hardened/unhardened?  And I wonder if he has to be set up with Anora for it to happen.  I haven't finished my Dalish warrior's canon ending yet (Alistair on the throne, she'll go off to rebuild the Wardens) and I'm wondering if this is a possibility for her, with unhardened Alistair.  She's already past Landsmeet and all so all I need to do is actually finish the game, but you know, I'm curious.  

[Freckles04]

Sandtigress wrote...

You know, I never took that line as a guilt trip like some of the others have said.  I took it more as his way of trying to say, hurt as he was, that you were a wonderful person and he wished it could have been him that you chose i.e. that Zev is lucky that you picked him.  Sure, it might make you feel a little guilty, but I never thought that Alistair meant it in a manipulative way, more of  a jealous but honest sentiment.

Agreed. I don't think Alistair does anything out of spite or trying to make you feel guilty, or anything like that. I think most of the bad things that come out of the relationship with Al are of the "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" variety.

I think Alistair is very conflicted. When in a romance, his heart and brain are working against each other. His heart tells him he loves the female Warden. His brain tells him there are so many obstacles, it's not going to work. I honestly don't find it surprising that he ignores what his brain is saying until he can't possibly continue to do so. He says it in one of the party banters (with Morrigan, I think, when she asks why he kept his parentage a secret): he hoped it would all go away. A mature outlook? Not in the least, but a realistic one for a guy who just desperately wants someone to love him for who he is and to belong somewhere.

[ejoslin]

Freckles04 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

You know, I never took that line as a guilt trip like some of the others have said.  I took it more as his way of trying to say, hurt as he was, that you were a wonderful person and he wished it could have been him that you chose i.e. that Zev is lucky that you picked him.  Sure, it might make you feel a little guilty, but I never thought that Alistair meant it in a manipulative way, more of  a jealous but honest sentiment.

Agreed. I don't think Alistair does anything out of spite or trying to make you feel guilty, or anything like that. I think most of the bad things that come out of the relationship with Al are of the "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" variety.

I think Alistair is very conflicted. When in a romance, his heart and brain are working against each other. His heart tells him he loves the female Warden. His brain tells him there are so many obstacles, it's not going to work. I honestly don't find it surprising that he ignores what his brain is saying until he can't possibly continue to do so. He says it in one of the party banters (with Morrigan, I think, when she asks why he kept his parentage a secret): he hoped it would all go away. A mature outlook? Not in the least, but a realistic one for a guy who just desperately wants someone to love him for who he is and to belong somewhere.

Actually, this is a good point and another good contrast between the two men.  With Alistair, what he says when rejected can be taken really badly, and he is hurt, but there is a relief there because he also knows it's most likely not going to work (even with the HNF if he's seeing her as a warden and not a Cousland).  With Zevran, he's very worldly and good at hiding his feelings, so what he says is a lot better when rejected even though his approval rating drops significantly -- maybe because he knows it could work.

I do wonder, though, why Zevran is looking towards the future at the very beginning and why establishing the relationship, be it friendship, FWB, or potential long-term partner is so important to him.   I can understand Alistair not wanting to face it.  I respect Zevran for insisting it get faced, though.

It's funny how these two relationships just are so . . . is opposite a good word?

I do know that with Alistair it appears he wants it to be forever and with Zevran he appears to want it to be for fun, yet I'm pretty sure that with Zevran it was never just for fun, as much as he wanted it to be.  The warden must really be just THAT awesome!

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

OTOH, you can have a happy ending with Alistair even if you aren't queen.  At least, if you and your character are willing either to put Anora on the throne or make yourself a mistress.  I've said it else-thread, but the most romantic ending any of my characters had with him was Dalish warden who set him up with Anora and went off to restore the Wardens (with Zevran as friend in tow!).  The epilogue said that at some point Alistair leaves the throne to join his love full-time and never leaves her side.  I'll take it.

Addai, what were the conditions for this?  Hardened/unhardened?  And I wonder if he has to be set up with Anora for it to happen.  I haven't finished my Dalish warrior's canon ending yet (Alistair on the throne, she'll go off to rebuild the Wardens) and I'm wondering if this is a possibility for her, with unhardened Alistair.  She's already past Landsmeet and all so all I need to do is actually finish the game, but you know, I'm curious.  

Hardened- set up to marry Anora- PC going off to restore the Grey Wardens.  To me it looked like the very same slide I had gotten on a playthrough where I made Anora sole ruler (boo, pfah, can't do that anymore!).  That's why it seemed more romantic an ending to me, b/c you get the best of both worlds.  The kingdom gets a good ruling pair and Alistair gets his rightful kingship, but at some point for some reason you and the Grey Wardens get him back.

Funny little bit- at the coronation, Alistair tries to take Anora's hand as they're going up on the dais and she snatches it away from him.  I'm guessing that happens whether he's got a mistress or not?  To me it was endearing.  It showed that he was trying to be a good king, and even a good husband at least in how he treated Anora publicly.  She was having none of it and that's ok, too, since it is pretense, after all.  Just an interesting little bit.

[Sandtigress]

It also seems that there's a fear in him that he's never going to find love again, if he loves PC. He flat out says it if you proposition him, that he wasn't sure that he would ever feel that way. So if he lets go, he's afraid he'll never love again, or alternatively that he doesn't deserve to love her and so then feels that he has to let her go.



Given that, he would hang on to the relationship as long as possible until duty or honor forced him to make a choice, and being honorable Alistair, he has to go with duty over his own happiness - a trait that I think gives him the potential to be a fantastic king.



And yeah, its with Morrigan that he says he hoped that everything would go away.

[Sandtigress]

Addai67 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

OTOH, you can have a happy ending with Alistair even if you aren't queen.  At least, if you and your character are willing either to put Anora on the throne or make yourself a mistress.  I've said it else-thread, but the most romantic ending any of my characters had with him was Dalish warden who set him up with Anora and went off to restore the Wardens (with Zevran as friend in tow!).  The epilogue said that at some point Alistair leaves the throne to join his love full-time and never leaves her side.  I'll take it.

Addai, what were the conditions for this?  Hardened/unhardened?  And I wonder if he has to be set up with Anora for it to happen.  I haven't finished my Dalish warrior's canon ending yet (Alistair on the throne, she'll go off to rebuild the Wardens) and I'm wondering if this is a possibility for her, with unhardened Alistair.  She's already past Landsmeet and all so all I need to do is actually finish the game, but you know, I'm curious.  

Hardened- set up to marry Anora- PC going off to restore the Grey Wardens.  To me it looked like the very same slide I had gotten on a playthrough where I made Anora sole ruler (boo, pfah, can't do that anymore!).  That's why it seemed more romantic an ending to me, b/c you get the best of both worlds.  The kingdom gets a good ruling pair and Alistair gets his rightful kingship, but at some point for some reason you and the Grey Wardens get him back.

Funny little bit- at the coronation, Alistair tries to take Anora's hand as they're going up on the dais and she snatches it away from him.  I'm guessing that happens whether he's got a mistress or not?  To me it was endearing.  It showed that he was trying to be a good king, and even a good husband at least in how he treated Anora publicly.  She was having none of it and that's ok, too, since it is pretense, after all.  Just an interesting little bit.

Aw, I think that's cute.  I might give it a go with my City elf, that was supposed to be her ending, with her as Alistair's mistress.  She up and shocked me with a sudden bout of mercy with Loghain though, and ended up with an ultimate sacrifice ending.  And since she stuck with Loghain, Alistair wasn't there at the coronation scene even though he left the Wardens to marry her, which struck me as weird.

I have a save just before so I can get this ending, but despite it being her intended ending, I think it actually won't be her canon one.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Funny little bit- at the coronation, Alistair tries to take Anora's hand as they're going up on the dais and she snatches it away from him.  I'm guessing that happens whether he's got a mistress or not?  To me it was endearing.  It showed that he was trying to be a good king, and even a good husband at least in how he treated Anora publicly.  She was having none of it and that's ok, too, since it is pretense, after all.  Just an interesting little bit.

It happens no matter what if they take the throne together.  I find it really sad.  Alistair has very few chances for true happiness in life, and I don't think making Anora solo queen if you've hardened him really is what he wants either, even though he won't give you a hard time over it.  But the PC, whether lover or friend, has to push this poor guy into a situation where he won't be happy, unless she's willing to talk him into keeping her around.  And even then, I doubt he'd be truly happy.

He is a tragic hero for sure.  I actually like Alistair and feel bad for him.  I just don't like romancing him.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 09:15 .

[Sandtigress]

This is why I'm giving him an ending where my PC, who he loves, will be his queen. She helps him rule, they're happy together, we'll find a way to make that heir, I promise, Alistair! :-D And Anora can go live in that tower where she belongs.



Riordan always manages to convince me to spare Loghain, so to keep that from happening this time, Alistair is going to be Amelia's champion at the Landsmeet. Capable she may be, but I figure if she gets to kill Howe, Alistair can have his moment against Loghain, and there will be no opportunity for me to go all soft on him!

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

It happens no matter what if they take the throne together.  I find it really sad.  Alistair has very few chances for true happiness in life, and I don't think making Anora solo queen if you've hardened him really is what he wants either, even though he won't give you a hard time over it.  But the PC, whether lover or friend, has to push this poor guy into a situation where he won't be happy, unless she's willing to talk him into keeping her around.  And even then, I doubt he'd be truly happy.

He is a tragic hero for sure.  I actually like Alistair and feel bad for him.  I just don't like romancing him.

I will never marry him to Anora again, because of that cutscene and because of the conversation you have with her after where she's all "He makes jokes? Joy." It just seems fundamentally wrong to force him to marry someone he doesn't like and who is probably going to never be a good fit for him.  I would rather he have a chance to find someone wonderful, even if it means getting dumped (if the PC is his mistress) than force Anora on him.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 29 janvier 2010 - 09:41 .

[ozsras]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: and on another topic, to those who disagree that Alistair's lack of approval loss for dumping him is not a sign of him not looking towards the future, do you think he WAS looking towards the future when starting the relationship?  I can see him agreeing with the female warden that they don't have a future together and maybe it is best to end it, in fact, I agree with that if that is the point.  But the even being IN the relationship, how could he have been considering the future rather than just the present?  Because that was a conclusion, had he been looking at outcomes, that he should have been able to reach.

Pre-face: I only did the Alistair romance once so I'm going off my memory. But-

My PC slept with him and right after (and I do mean right after that) he broke up with her for duty. Or some such. It was clear (at least to me, this was the impression I got) that he was using "duty" to either run away or ... I don't know. Being honest about the fact that two GW's probably wouldn't make it past the Archdemon. Now this was before Eamon was revived and before the sister quest.

So I'm going to say that he was just jumping at a relationship with my PC. Not really thinking of the future just trying to eek out some happiness before they all die. Or something.

But really Al? Right after the sex? Harsh man, real harsh.

[Addai]

SurelyForth wrote...

I will never marry him to Anora again, because of that cutscene and because of the conversation you have with her after where she's all "He makes jokes? Joy." It just seems fundamentally wrong to force him to marry someone he doesn't like and who is probably going to never be a good fit for him.  I would rather he have a chance to find someone wonderful, even if it means getting dumped (if the PC is his mistress) than force Anora on him.

Anora does come to respect him, according to the ending slide.  I knew she would.   Mostly I think it's good for the country to have Loghain's and the Wardens' people come together, and since Anora comes in knowing all about a political marriage.  There is still an heir problem, judging from the fact that Cailan and Anora couldn't produce one in 5 years.  I also respect Anora enough that I don't like putting her in the tower.  She's not a bad person nor a bad ruler.

My elf mage who's going to be with Zevran will make Alistair sole ruler and be his chancellor, because I have her backstory as being born to elven servants of the Couslands, a Cousland daughter surviving Howe's massacre, fleeing to Orlais and coming back to Ferelden with the Orlesian GWs.  And being re-introduced to her old playmate and the elf mage's kingly fellow Warden. 

[SurelyForth]

My PC slept with him and right after (and I do mean right after that) he broke up with her for duty. Or some such. It was clear (at least to me, this was the impression I got) that he was using "duty" to either run away or ... I don't know. Being honest about the fact that two GW's probably wouldn't make it past the Archdemon. Now this was before Eamon was revived and before the sister quest.

This must be a glitch. In all the various games I've run, I've never had him initiate a break up with my PC at the Landsmeet or as part of the confrontation over Leliana/Zev. If you haven't done his sister quest, you can't even talk to him about where he sees the relationship going.

Re: Anora.  I like her as well, to an extent, and I know that she ends up respecting Alistair, but I still think he deserves a chance to find someone on his own- part of that whole "his life has been decided for him" thing.  In my imagination, she gets a smashing penthouse in Fort Drakon and all kinds of sexy manservants (or lady servants, whatever she's into).

Modifié par SurelyForth, 29 janvier 2010 - 09:59 .

[AnniLau]

ozsras wrote...

My PC slept with him and right after (and I do mean right after that) he broke up with her for duty.

Must have been something you said...

[ejoslin]

It must have been a non-hardened Alistair during the "where is it going" dialog. I didn't realize there was an actual break up there, but definitely anything that points towards the future in that discussion gets a huge approval drop. Almost as bad as a breakup with Zevran, in fact . . .

Edit: And according to robertthebard, you can get Alistair to break up with you if you get mad enough and confrontational enough when asking why he didn't tell you about his birthright.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:01 .

[nos_astra]

How can that be? Al can only dump the PC after the landsmeet, I thought. This means he is most likely unhardened and forced to be king against his will. This means that Arl Eamon is either revived or dead (?) and Als personal quest should be done.

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

It must have been a non-hardened Alistair during the "where is it going" dialog. I didn't realize there was an actual break up there, but definitely anything that points towards the future in that discussion gets a huge approval drop. Almost as bad as a breakup with Zevran, in fact . . .

But you can't have that conversation until you've done his personal quest.

[ejoslin]

After Alistair's personal quest, if he's at 100 love, you can question him about the relationship. It's a different discussion whether the Arl has been revived or not, but an unhardened Alistair gets REALLY mad if you tell him you want him in your future. I didn't realize it ever lead to a breakup, but I haven't explored that dialog tree either. I do know you can get a major approval drop, and it actually is quite hurtful.