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[ozsras]

Well, we were in camp (because of the said sexin') and I accidentally clicked on him. And then he started the whole duty thing. (shrugs) I don't know if it's a glitch since it was the only time I ever romanced him. I usually stick to Leliana or Zev.



Speaking of Zev, I didn't really intend on romancing him. In fact in my first game he turned on me. But the second time I talked with him and he hinted at the sexy tent times and you know my mage...well it had been some time since she had "knocked boots" and well...



Damn assassin really got to me. I expected for it to be fun times had by all (and it was ) and you know no real attachment. But then...he sprang that godawful poem on me. And really? how could I not love him a bit for that? *sighs*



My mage was so not looking for love and then Zevran just went and wooed her. She was kinda pissed at him for that.

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

It must have been a non-hardened Alistair during the "where is it going" dialog. I didn't realize there was an actual break up there, but definitely anything that points towards the future in that discussion gets a huge approval drop. Almost as bad as a breakup with Zevran, in fact . . .

But you can't have that conversation until you've done his personal quest.

But the Arl doesn't have to be revived, and it can happen after Alistair initiates sex for the first time.

[ejoslin]

ozsras wrote...

Well, we were in camp (because of the said sexin') and I accidentally clicked on him. And then he started the whole duty thing. (shrugs) I don't know if it's a glitch since it was the only time I ever romanced him. I usually stick to Leliana or Zev.

Speaking of Zev, I didn't really intend on romancing him. In fact in my first game he turned on me. But the second time I talked with him and he hinted at the sexy tent times and you know my mage...well it had been some time since she had "knocked boots" and well...

Damn assassin really got to me. I expected for it to be fun times had by all (and it was ) and you know no real attachment. But then...he sprang that godawful poem on me. And really? how could I not love him a bit for that? *sighs*

My mage was so not looking for love and then Zevran just went and wooed her. She was kinda pissed at him for that.

Hahahah, he gets hit the same way later, though, totally against his will.  

[ozsras]

I mean it's a horrible poem. I swear I could *hear* Zevran blushing. lol



Yeah, my mage was so happy Zev wound up in the same boat as her. He deserved it the smooth talking bastard. XD

[ejoslin]

ozsras wrote...

I mean it's a horrible poem. I swear I could *hear* Zevran blushing. lol

Yeah, my mage was so happy Zev wound up in the same boat as her. He deserved it the smooth talking bastard. XD

I love it when he has is awkward moments 

[ozsras]

ejoslin wrote...

ozsras wrote...

I mean it's a horrible poem. I swear I could *hear* Zevran blushing. lol

Yeah, my mage was so happy Zev wound up in the same boat as her. He deserved it the smooth talking bastard. XD

I love it when he has is awkward moments 

I do too. In fact I was shocked at how vulnerable he seemed. Like I said, I didn't talk to him at all in the first game so when I romanced him I expected... I dunno. Something different. He was very different than what I thought he would be. Honest and vulnerable (esp. later on), personally I thought he was far more vulnerable than Alistair was. I don't have any proof or anything. Just a feeling I get when I compare the two romances. His just felt very.... open. (shrugs) 

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

After Alistair's personal quest, if he's at 100 love, you can question him about the relationship. It's a different discussion whether the Arl has been revived or not, but an unhardened Alistair gets REALLY mad if you tell him you want him in your future. I didn't realize it ever lead to a breakup, but I haven't explored that dialog tree either. I do know you can get a major approval drop, and it actually is quite hurtful.

That is not entirely true. Unhardened if you say "love is the only thing that matters" he get's pissed. If you choose "I don't want to give up", he agrees with you.

Despite what some Zev fans thing, Ali DOES want a future with PC, but he doesn't want to delusion himself either. He has done that enough in his past and I think because he cares for you and what you have so much, he wants to make it easier for the BOTH of you, but only if you aren't willing to FIGHT for the relationship.

[ejoslin]

ozsras wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

ozsras wrote...

I mean it's a horrible poem. I swear I could *hear* Zevran blushing. lol

Yeah, my mage was so happy Zev wound up in the same boat as her. He deserved it the smooth talking bastard. XD

I love it when he has is awkward moments 

I do too. In fact I was shocked at how vulnerable he seemed. Like I said, I didn't talk to him at all in the first game so when I romanced him I expected... I dunno. Something different. He was very different than what I thought he would be. Honest and vulnerable (esp. later on), personally I thought he was far more vulnerable than Alistair was. I don't have any proof or anything. Just a feeling I get when I compare the two romances. His just felt very.... open. (shrugs) 

How raw his feelings are, and how apparent, is what I consider the most appealing part of that romance.  The poetry reading, at least with the female, afterwards when he tells her he was trying to cheer her up because she looked so unhappy (such an unflattering expression on such a lovely face) he sounds so completely unsure of himself.  The man who could melt Morrigan sounded like a teenage boy right there.

[Addai]

ozsras wrote...

Well, we were in camp (because of the said sexin') and I accidentally clicked on him. And then he started the whole duty thing. (shrugs) I don't know if it's a glitch since it was the only time I ever romanced him. I usually stick to Leliana or Zev.

Speaking of Zev, I didn't really intend on romancing him. In fact in my first game he turned on me. But the second time I talked with him and he hinted at the sexy tent times and you know my mage...well it had been some time since she had "knocked boots" and well...

Damn assassin really got to me. I expected for it to be fun times had by all (and it was ) and you know no real attachment. But then...he sprang that godawful poem on me. And really? how could I not love him a bit for that? *sighs*

My mage was so not looking for love and then Zevran just went and wooed her. She was kinda pissed at him for that.

Did Alistair actually break up with you???  I remember that talk- it's if you have initiated the tent and it's the next time you enter camp, I think, he comes up to you all sweaty and nervous and says "you were the first woman I've been with and I want you to be the last"- but in my game that was him asking my PC if she wanted to break up, not the other way round.

And you are so right about Zevran- a few of my PCs have unintentionally been drawn in by his unconditional appreciativeness.  Like he says, he does grow on people!  LOL

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

After Alistair's personal quest, if he's at 100 love, you can question him about the relationship. It's a different discussion whether the Arl has been revived or not, but an unhardened Alistair gets REALLY mad if you tell him you want him in your future. I didn't realize it ever lead to a breakup, but I haven't explored that dialog tree either. I do know you can get a major approval drop, and it actually is quite hurtful.

That is not entirely true. Unhardened if you say "love is the only thing that matters" he get's pissed. If you choose "I don't want to give up", he agrees with you.

Despite what some Zev fans thing, Ali DOES want a future with PC, but he doesn't want to delusion himself either. He has done that enough in his past and I think because he cares for you and what you have so much, he wants to make it easier for the BOTH of you, but only if you aren't willing to FIGHT for the relationship.

See, that's the thing, and Alistair fans won't like this, but with that romance you DO have to fight for it, you DO have to guide it, YOU have to make it work.  With Zevran, you two are approaching it as equals, there's no need for the Warden to fight for it.  Both of them are willing to die for the PC, but Zevran, with no prompting, is willing to live for her as well.

[Sandtigress]

Well, Alistair's in a totally different position than Zevran. He's the best choice for future king - at the very least he has the best claim to the throne being Maric's son. He knows he can't have children with the PC, and he also knows that he needs an heir if he is going to be king. He's also got a major self-confidence problem and often has to be convinced that he's allowed to be happy since he so rarely ever is. So of course you have to fight for the relationship to make it work, there's a heck of a lot opposing the two of you being together.



Zevran has none of that, despite having a painful past. Its much easier for Zevran to stay in a relationship because there's no pressing reason not to be, unless PC doesn't want it or wants someone else.

[ozsras]

Addai67 wrote...

ozsras wrote...

Well, we were in camp (because of the said sexin') and I accidentally clicked on him. And then he started the whole duty thing. (shrugs) I don't know if it's a glitch since it was the only time I ever romanced him. I usually stick to Leliana or Zev.

Speaking of Zev, I didn't really intend on romancing him. In fact in my first game he turned on me. But the second time I talked with him and he hinted at the sexy tent times and you know my mage...well it had been some time since she had "knocked boots" and well...

Damn assassin really got to me. I expected for it to be fun times had by all (and it was ) and you know no real attachment. But then...he sprang that godawful poem on me. And really? how could I not love him a bit for that? *sighs*

My mage was so not looking for love and then Zevran just went and wooed her. She was kinda pissed at him for that.

Did Alistair actually break up with you???  I remember that talk- it's if you have initiated the tent and it's the next time you enter camp, I think, he comes up to you all sweaty and nervous and says "you were the first woman I've been with and I want you to be the last"- but in my game that was him asking my PC if she wanted to break up, not the other way round.

And you are so right about Zevran- a few of my PCs have unintentionally been drawn in by his unconditional appreciativeness.  Like he says, he does grow on people!  LOL

He said something like "where do you see this going?" or something? He definitley didn't seem nervous. I don't know like I said I only did it once and I've done 17 full playthrough since then...

I remember choosing the first line in the dialogue tree. He got pissed. I was like "whatever" and went to shack up with Leli.

Zev so grew on me! I did not expect that at all.

How raw his feelings are, and how apparent, is what I consider the most
appealing part of that romance.  The poetry reading, at least with the
female, afterwards when he tells her he was trying to cheer her up
because she looked so unhappy (such an unflattering expression on such
a lovely face) he sounds so completely unsure of himself.  The man who
could melt Morrigan sounded like a teenage boy right there.

I loved that he did it to cheer up my mage. That was really sweet.

Modifié par ozsras, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:44 .

[Cuddlezarro]

How raw his feelings are, and how apparent, is what I consider the most appealing part of that romance. The poetry reading, at least with the female, afterwards when he tells her he was trying to cheer her up because she looked so unhappy (such an unflattering expression on such a lovely face) he sounds so completely unsure of himself.

the reasons he does it is exactly the same as the female version except he says your handsome face instead of your lovely face

it was rather touching despite the utterly terribadness of said poem as well

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:46 .

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

After Alistair's personal quest, if he's at 100 love, you can question him about the relationship. It's a different discussion whether the Arl has been revived or not, but an unhardened Alistair gets REALLY mad if you tell him you want him in your future. I didn't realize it ever lead to a breakup, but I haven't explored that dialog tree either. I do know you can get a major approval drop, and it actually is quite hurtful.

That is not entirely true. Unhardened if you say "love is the only thing that matters" he get's pissed. If you choose "I don't want to give up", he agrees with you.

Despite what some Zev fans thing, Ali DOES want a future with PC, but he doesn't want to delusion himself either. He has done that enough in his past and I think because he cares for you and what you have so much, he wants to make it easier for the BOTH of you, but only if you aren't willing to FIGHT for the relationship.

See, that's the thing, and Alistair fans won't like this, but with that romance you DO have to fight for it, you DO have to guide it, YOU have to make it work.  With Zevran, you two are approaching it as equals, there's no need for the Warden to fight for it.  Both of them are willing to die for the PC, but Zevran, with no prompting, is willing to live for her as well.

I don't think any Alistair fan minds that. Those that do end up eventually losing their "fan-ness" for him. Both Alistair and the female Warden are fully aware of their situation, while I get the feeling that it is not so between Zevran and the PC. There are things Zevran does not know simply because he is not a warden. I suppose you can assume the warden does tell him, but it kind of goes against the whole warden/joining secrecy thing. that and you never really get to hear his feelings on morrigan ritual. while i am sure he would want his love to live, how would he feel about releasing a god baby unto the world, if we believe morrigan to be evil?

yes, you have to work harder for alistair's romance but to me, i find that his love was stronger. duty or not, alistair will not allow his girl to sacrifice herself. he can't watch the woman he loves die. Zevran has already seen it happen once, so I am surprised he would sit through it a second time. Yes, he may not know the specifics, but I think that goes back to PC having to keep things from him, and that makes their relationship easier than that with Alistair.

there is so much more that stacks against alistair's favor in terms of romance. the fact that as some people claims "he lets go of it too easy compared to zevran" to me, it really seems he just trying to take a mature look on reality. it doesn't mean he loves you any less than zevran. anyone who's been dumped by him and did not take morrigan's ritual can tell you that. he STILL loves you and just pretends to be your friend, keeping things bottled up.

I don't see Zevran as more willing to live for her or Alistair as any less willing to live for her either, but then again they have entirely different circumstances since it's more or less expected that regardless of anything the wardens will give their lives up for Fereldan during the Blight. Alistiar proves this when you leave him at the gate without doing the ritual. His lines about never forgetting the warden no matter, loving her no matter what even after death only proves that.

the fact that i have to work for it only makes the Alistair romance that much more satisfying. it wasn't supposed to happen, but it did. and i think that's also where it has some of it's strongest appeal. it's very romeo and juliet almost. it's not everyone's flavor, certainly not mine until romeo got renamed alistair, but i don't think that makes one overall better than the other, just like i don't think that because things are 'easier' with zevran (lol, had to smile at myself thinking of this too)  equates a better romance. you like things easier as far as romance goes as i assume most zev fans do, well most alistair fans like things hard ().

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...
See, that's the thing, and Alistair fans won't like this, but with that romance you DO have to fight for it, you DO have to guide it, YOU have to make it work.  With Zevran, you two are approaching it as equals, there's no need for the Warden to fight for it.  Both of them are willing to die for the PC, but Zevran, with no prompting, is willing to live for her as well.

True, but only if the kingship is in the mix.  If he is not chosen as king, he goes with his PC lover with no questions asked.  Whereas Zevran, while he is still tied to the Crows, will not love the PC with whole heart and no amount of Persuade can change that.  Both of them have complications that are beyond their control.  Ironically, both the prince and the former slave have had people make decisions for them their whole lives and those decisions affect their ability to be in a relationship.

[Thiefy]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
See, that's the thing, and Alistair fans won't like this, but with that romance you DO have to fight for it, you DO have to guide it, YOU have to make it work.  With Zevran, you two are approaching it as equals, there's no need for the Warden to fight for it.  Both of them are willing to die for the PC, but Zevran, with no prompting, is willing to live for her as well.

True, but only if the kingship is in the mix.  If he is not chosen as king, he goes with his PC lover with no questions asked.  Whereas Zevran, while he is still tied to the Crows, will not love the PC with whole heart and no amount of Persuade can change that.  Both of them have complications that are beyond their control.  Ironically, both the prince and the former slave have had people make decisions for them their whole lives and those decisions affect their ability to be in a relationship.

really? i never got that impressioned when i romanced him. i thought that he did truely love the pc but was just afriad to put her in danger because of the crows. which is silly given how bad ass she is.

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I don't think any Alistair fan minds that. Those that do end up eventually losing their "fan-ness" for him. Both Alistair and the female Warden are fully aware of their situation, while I get the feeling that it is not so between Zevran and the PC. There are things Zevran does not know simply because he is not a warden. I suppose you can assume the warden does tell him, but it kind of goes against the whole warden/joining secrecy thing. that and you never really get to hear his feelings on morrigan ritual. while i am sure he would want his love to live, how would he feel about releasing a god baby unto the world, if we believe morrigan to be evil?

yes, you have to work harder for alistair's romance but to me, i find that his love was stronger. duty or not, alistair will not allow his girl to sacrifice herself. he can't watch the woman he loves die. Zevran has already seen it happen once, so I am surprised he would sit through it a second time. Yes, he may not know the specifics, but I think that goes back to PC having to keep things from him, and that makes their relationship easier than that with Alistair.

there is so much more that stacks against alistair's favor in terms of romance. the fact that as some people claims "he lets go of it too easy compared to zevran" to me, it really seems he just trying to take a mature look on reality. it doesn't mean he loves you any less than zevran. anyone who's been dumped by him and did not take morrigan's ritual can tell you that. he STILL loves you and just pretends to be your friend, keeping things bottled up.

I don't see Zevran as more willing to live for her or Alistair as any less willing to live for her either, but then again they have entirely different circumstances since it's more or less expected that regardless of anything the wardens will give their lives up for Fereldan during the Blight. Alistiar proves this when you leave him at the gate without doing the ritual. His lines about never forgetting the warden no matter, loving her no matter what even after death only proves that.

the fact that i have to work for it only makes the Alistair romance that much more satisfying. it wasn't supposed to happen, but it did. and i think that's also where it has some of it's strongest appeal. it's very romeo and juliet almost. it's not everyone's flavor, certainly not mine until romeo got renamed alistair, but i don't think that makes one overall better than the other, just like i don't think that because things are 'easier' with zevran (lol, had to smile at myself thinking of this too)  equates a better romance. you like things easier as far as romance goes as i assume most zev fans do, well most alistair fans like things hard ().

As far as I know, Zevran is the first person to tell the warden that the Grey Wardens always die -- the hero always dies.  He may not know particulars, but he knows enough that he may talk about it with her (though many people miss it because in the dialog tree there is a preferred thing to tell him), and he wants to be the one who "prevents her untimely death."  Though he also knows that if it's not the hero who dies, it's the hero's sidekick who dies instead.

And if you doubt that, if you do the romance try leaving him at the gates.  He's heartbroken by it, and gives one of the most touching declarations of love in the game.  Take him with you, you know he feels he's in his rightful place, by her side about to face the archdemon, and gives the OTHER most touching declaration of love in the game.

A kind of sweet twist on the kiss ending . . . If you broke up with Alistair but he's still in love, yet in love with Zevran, with both of them up there, Zevran is in the kiss scene, watching Alistair.  He's blurry, but also looking incredibly grateful to Alistair.

See, the problem is ToH, is I don't think you've done the Zevran romance to the end.  It changes him considerably.

Edit: ick formatting

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 janvier 2010 - 11:26 .

[Sandtigress]

I have a HNF rogue in the plannings who is going to be a bit loose with her favors, will turn Alistair down because he's too serious (sort of, can't think of a better word) about a relationship, goes with Zev for a fling and is totally surprised by what develops just so I can do a Zev romance better. None of my characters so far would really go for him, which is a shame. They're too much like me, and hopeless romantics so we all fall hard for Alistair. :-P

[Addai]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
really? i never got that impressioned when i romanced him. i thought that he did truely love the pc but was just afriad to put her in danger because of the crows. which is silly given how bad ass she is.

She will be in danger with him no matter what- the Crows do come after him again, and he even talks about this at the post-coronation.  No, it is that Zevran can't let himself fully love until he has at least resolved matters with Taliesin.  You can have him at 100 Adore, but apart from a few glitchy cases, the bar doesn't switch to Love and the romance won't advance until his "personal crisis" is resolved after Taliesin.  Even then, it won't switch if you don't give him certain responses.

Modifié par Addai67, 29 janvier 2010 - 11:32 .

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
really? i never got that impressioned when i romanced him. i thought that he did truely love the pc but was just afriad to put her in danger because of the crows. which is silly given how bad ass she is.

She will be in danger with him no matter what- the Crows do come after him again, and he even talks about this at the post-coronation.  No, it is that Zevran can't let himself fully love until he has at least resolved matters with Taliesin.  You can have him at 100 Adore, but apart from a few glitchy cases, the bar doesn't switch to Love and the romance won't advance until his "personal crisis" is resolved after Taliesin.  Even then, it won't switch if you don't give him certain responses.

To be fair, there is only ONE response that will keep it at adore, keep it casual, and you have to tell him not once but twice that whether he stays or goes is his decision though he obviously wants to be asked to stay, and then when a thoroughly confused Zevran asks if he can stay, you let him know it's for the kissing.

*sigh* if you make the poor guy feel wanted and loved, he's yours forever.

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

As far as I know, Zevran is the first person to tell the warden that the Grey Wardens always die -- the hero always dies.  He may not know particulars, but he knows enough that he may talk about it with her (though many people miss it because in the dialog tree there is a preferred thing to tell him), and he wants to be the one who "prevents her untimely death."  Though he also knows that if it's not the hero who dies, it's the hero's sidekick who dies instead.

And if you doubt that, if you do the romance try leaving him at the gates.  He's heartbroken by it, and gives one of the most touching declarations of love in the game.  Take him with you, you know he feels he's in his rightful place, by her side about to face the archdemon, and gives the OTHER most touching declaration of love in the game.

A kind of sweet twist on the kiss ending . . . If you broke up with Alistair but he's still in love, yet in love with Zevran, with both of them up there, Zevran is in the kiss scene, watching Alistair.  He's blurry, but also looking incredibly grateful to Alistair.

See, the problem is ToH, is I don't think you've done the Zevran romance to the end.  It changes him considerably.

Are you talking about the sidekick dialouge? Actually I got that line and really LOVED it.  I wish there was more of this from him instead of that silly poem. Sadly, while hearing that dialouge I also thought about Alistair and felt terrible.

I have left him at the gates before in a romance too, but I really think this is a case where Alistair's dialouge just trumps Zevran's. I haven't done the kiss things though with the Zev romance. Really, that just seems kind of mean to mess with both of them like that.

I have gotten Zevran's earring a second time as well. Don't you remember my asking for help with it in the Zev thread? You know the funny thing about it is I actually got it before a while ago but I forgot about, but once seeing the dailouge he gives and the fact that I forgot you had to initiate sex with him at 100 love, I quickly remembered it. I think what it boils down to is that with Zevran, I don't really feel special. I find that Ali really cherishes his warden, and while Zevran does as well, Alistair goes out of his way to really show her that and appreciate her.

I know Zev's mask has slipped a few times, and while it's cute, I find it really frustrating that a lot of the time, it's all for show as well.

[_Aine_]

Alistair in many ways is a man who feels, I think, that he escaped death unfairly, and should have died. So, he is approaching his duty to the Grey Wardens as an homage to his mentor, his duty to the honor and the memory of the fallen, as well as a direct and likely quick road to his own untimely death. Despite any and all deep feelings for the PC, he is preparing for one or both of them to die, or to be stolen away to rule Ferelden.

Zev on the other hand had no interest, at the start, of having any feelings to have to worry about. They grew and it became a matter of falling into love rather than being like Alistair and having to worry about losing his. Zev then becomes all for thinking he could help protect his love, help her, or maybe even die beside her trying, who knows...but I think that the differences don't neccessarily indicate a more or less strong love on either side, but rather a different way of looking at the probable outcome, one more pessimistic (Alistair) and the other optimistic even when dealing with the probably futile  That is totally Zev though, getting lucky and willing to take chances.  Think also of Alistair's Templar training.... their methods of dealing with the unknown or dangerous are....drastic sometimes.   

What was that Loghain quote, something to the effect of " Its always more difficult to send another man to his death".  Now, love that person you are sending to their death and take into consideration both training and life circumstance, and it is more the man than the love that makes the difference in their actions I think.... 

Modifié par shantisands, 29 janvier 2010 - 11:53 .

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

As far as I know, Zevran is the first person to tell the warden that the Grey Wardens always die -- the hero always dies.  He may not know particulars, but he knows enough that he may talk about it with her (though many people miss it because in the dialog tree there is a preferred thing to tell him), and he wants to be the one who "prevents her untimely death."  Though he also knows that if it's not the hero who dies, it's the hero's sidekick who dies instead.

And if you doubt that, if you do the romance try leaving him at the gates.  He's heartbroken by it, and gives one of the most touching declarations of love in the game.  Take him with you, you know he feels he's in his rightful place, by her side about to face the archdemon, and gives the OTHER most touching declaration of love in the game.

A kind of sweet twist on the kiss ending . . . If you broke up with Alistair but he's still in love, yet in love with Zevran, with both of them up there, Zevran is in the kiss scene, watching Alistair.  He's blurry, but also looking incredibly grateful to Alistair.

See, the problem is ToH, is I don't think you've done the Zevran romance to the end.  It changes him considerably.

Are you talking about the sidekick dialouge? Actually I got that line and really LOVED it.  I wish there was more of this from him instead of that silly poem. Sadly, while hearing that dialouge I also thought about Alistair and felt terrible.

I have left him at the gates before in a romance too, but I really think this is a case where Alistair's dialouge just trumps Zevran's. I haven't done the kiss things though with the Zev romance. Really, that just seems kind of mean to mess with both of them like that.

I have gotten Zevran's earring a second time as well. Don't you remember my asking for help with it in the Zev thread? You know the funny thing about it is I actually got it before a while ago but I forgot about, but once seeing the dailouge he gives and the fact that I forgot you had to initiate sex with him at 100 love, I quickly remembered it. I think what it boils down to is that with Zevran, I don't really feel special. I find that Ali really cherishes his warden, and while Zevran does as well, Alistair goes out of his way to really show her that and appreciate her.

I know Zev's mask has slipped a few times, and while it's cute, I find it really frustrating that a lot of the time, it's all for show as well.

My bad, ToH, you're right, you have, my apologies

And Alistair's, "I love you, always," is sweet, I will give you that.  But it's funny how I get the exact opposite reaction, that Zevran's declarations are more touching.  Especially since Alistair sounds so peevish if you leave him.

And ToH, how is that mean?  My character when forced to choose, chose Zevran.  And Alistair had just as much a right as the PC to be up there, and he was the one who turned down the ritual (it actually is REALLY hard to get him to turn it down).  It was an unexpected twist, actually, and one I thought was so sweet.  And in the codex it says something about how Alistair gave his life so his friends could live.  Alistair stays in love, usually (but not always).  But keep in mind, there IS more to it than just not wanting to see her die.  He will admit he wants a hero's death.  And that's fine.  In some ways, it's the kindest ending you can give him.

I actually thought Zevran watching the kiss, watching Alistair during the kiss (and no, this is not a jealous moment), was incredibly sweet.  Alistair was giving them both a gift -- the chance at a life together.

[ejoslin]

shantisands wrote...

Alistair in many ways is a man who feels, I think, that he escaped death unfairly, and should have died. So, he is approaching his duty to the Grey Wardens as an homage to his mentor, his duty to the honor and the memory of the fallen, as well as a direct and likely quick road to his own untimely death. Despite any and all deep feelings for the PC, he is preparing for one or both of them to die, or to be stolen away to rule Ferelden.

Zev on the other hand had no interest, at the start, of having any feelings to have to worry about. They grew and it became a matter of falling into love rather than being like Alistair and having to worry about losing his. Zev then becomes all for thinking he could help protect his love, help her, or maybe even die beside her trying, who knows...but I think that the differences don't neccessarily indicate a more or less strong love on either side, but rather a different way of looking at the probable outcome, one more pessimistic (Alistair) and the other optimistic even when dealing with the probably futile  That is totally Zev though, getting lucky and willing to take chances.  Think also of Alistair's Templar training.... their methods of dealing with the unknown or dangerous are....drastic sometimes.   

What was that Loghain quote, something to the effect of " Its always more difficult to send another man to his death".  Now, love that person you are sending to their death and take into consideration both training and life circumstance, and it is more the man than the love that makes the difference in their actions I think.... 

This. . . yes.  Thank you.

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
really? i never got that impressioned when i romanced him. i thought that he did truely love the pc but was just afriad to put her in danger because of the crows. which is silly given how bad ass she is.

She will be in danger with him no matter what- the Crows do come after him again, and he even talks about this at the post-coronation.  No, it is that Zevran can't let himself fully love until he has at least resolved matters with Taliesin.  You can have him at 100 Adore, but apart from a few glitchy cases, the bar doesn't switch to Love and the romance won't advance until his "personal crisis" is resolved after Taliesin.  Even then, it won't switch if you don't give him certain responses.

To be fair, there is only ONE response that will keep it at adore, keep it casual, and you have to tell him not once but twice that whether he stays or goes is his decision though he obviously wants to be asked to stay, and then when a thoroughly confused Zevran asks if he can stay, you let him know it's for the kissing.

*sigh* if you make the poor guy feel wanted and loved, he's yours forever.

you know the weird thing about that was when i saw those options initially i was just trying to empower the guy. i didnt want him to feel obligated to come along though i really wanted it (second time really since first time around i gave the smart ass, affirmative answer which he liked). so it was really a case of misinterpreting each other. i guess it was a case of me wanting him to just come out and say he wanted to stay with my pc, without really having to pry for it.

i didn't think that he was similar to alistair in that case but he surprisingly was. i thought for sure he would want to make his own decision give the chance instead of just having someone pick for him and hoped it reflected his inner feelings. would have thought he got frustrated with all those orders by now.