534 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

shantisands wrote...
What was that Loghain quote, something to the effect of " Its always more difficult to send another man to his death".  Now, love that person you are sending to their death and take into consideration both training and life circumstance, and it is more the man than the love that makes the difference in their actions I think.... 

Nicely said.

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

you know the weird thing about that was when i saw those options initially i was just trying to empower the guy. i didnt want him to feel obligated to come along though i really wanted it (second time really since first time around i gave the smart ass, affirmative answer which he liked). so it was really a case of misinterpreting each other. i guess it was a case of me wanting him to just come out and say he wanted to stay with my pc, without really having to pry for it.

i didn't think that he was similar to alistair in that case but he surprisingly was. i thought for sure he would want to make his own decision give the chance instead of just having someone pick for him and hoped it reflected his inner feelings. would have thought he got frustrated with all those orders by now.

At the beginning, he tells you he'll want to stay if you two grow fond of each other.  And yes, he still has the mask up -- in fact, he's at a very pivotal point, where he has just fallen in love and is completely confused over what it means.  I know I would want to be asked to stay in that circumstance -- who would want to be told to do whatever? 

I guess the thing is, I know if he doesn't want to stay, he'll ask to leave. He's not scared of THAT.  What he is scared of is loving someone, especially with the intensity he apparently loves the warden with, knowing how that is most likely going to end up.

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

As far as I know, Zevran is the first person to tell the warden that the Grey Wardens always die -- the hero always dies.  He may not know particulars, but he knows enough that he may talk about it with her (though many people miss it because in the dialog tree there is a preferred thing to tell him), and he wants to be the one who "prevents her untimely death."  Though he also knows that if it's not the hero who dies, it's the hero's sidekick who dies instead.

And if you doubt that, if you do the romance try leaving him at the gates.  He's heartbroken by it, and gives one of the most touching declarations of love in the game.  Take him with you, you know he feels he's in his rightful place, by her side about to face the archdemon, and gives the OTHER most touching declaration of love in the game.

A kind of sweet twist on the kiss ending . . . If you broke up with Alistair but he's still in love, yet in love with Zevran, with both of them up there, Zevran is in the kiss scene, watching Alistair.  He's blurry, but also looking incredibly grateful to Alistair.

See, the problem is ToH, is I don't think you've done the Zevran romance to the end.  It changes him considerably.

Are you talking about the sidekick dialouge? Actually I got that line and really LOVED it.  I wish there was more of this from him instead of that silly poem. Sadly, while hearing that dialouge I also thought about Alistair and felt terrible.

I have left him at the gates before in a romance too, but I really think this is a case where Alistair's dialouge just trumps Zevran's. I haven't done the kiss things though with the Zev romance. Really, that just seems kind of mean to mess with both of them like that.

I have gotten Zevran's earring a second time as well. Don't you remember my asking for help with it in the Zev thread? You know the funny thing about it is I actually got it before a while ago but I forgot about, but once seeing the dailouge he gives and the fact that I forgot you had to initiate sex with him at 100 love, I quickly remembered it. I think what it boils down to is that with Zevran, I don't really feel special. I find that Ali really cherishes his warden, and while Zevran does as well, Alistair goes out of his way to really show her that and appreciate her.

I know Zev's mask has slipped a few times, and while it's cute, I find it really frustrating that a lot of the time, it's all for show as well.

My bad, ToH, you're right, you have, my apologies

And Alistair's, "I love you, always," is sweet, I will give you that.  But it's funny how I get the exact opposite reaction, that Zevran's declarations are more touching.  Especially since Alistair sounds so peevish if you leave him.

And ToH, how is that mean?  My character when forced to choose, chose Zevran.  And Alistair had just as much a right as the PC to be up there, and he was the one who turned down the ritual (it actually is REALLY hard to get him to turn it down).  It was an unexpected twist, actually, and one I thought was so sweet.  And in the codex it says something about how Alistair gave his life so his friends could live.  Alistair stays in love, usually (but not always).  But keep in mind, there IS more to it than just not wanting to see her die.  He will admit he wants a hero's death.  And that's fine.  In some ways, it's the kindest ending you can give him.

I actually thought Zevran watching the kiss, watching Alistair during the kiss (and no, this is not a jealous moment), was incredibly sweet.  Alistair was giving them both a gift -- the chance at a life together.

To be fair, I think Alistair has a right to be pissed.  Kind prooved his point about people coddling him, especially if you made him king.

You know I've personally wondering how a person can get Alistair to refuse, but I've always had at least decent Coercion...you'd have to have like....0 to get refused.

I had to do an "Aaaawww" at your last bit too. That is very sweet, but I don't know myself and my PCs would feel very very guilty for that.

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

you know the weird thing about that was when i saw those options initially i was just trying to empower the guy. i didnt want him to feel obligated to come along though i really wanted it (second time really since first time around i gave the smart ass, affirmative answer which he liked). so it was really a case of misinterpreting each other. i guess it was a case of me wanting him to just come out and say he wanted to stay with my pc, without really having to pry for it.

i didn't think that he was similar to alistair in that case but he surprisingly was. i thought for sure he would want to make his own decision give the chance instead of just having someone pick for him and hoped it reflected his inner feelings. would have thought he got frustrated with all those orders by now.

At the beginning, he tells you he'll want to stay if you two grow fond of each other.  And yes, he still has the mask up -- in fact, he's at a very pivotal point, where he has just fallen in love and is completely confused over what it means.  I know I would want to be asked to stay in that circumstance -- who would want to be told to do whatever? 

I guess the thing is, I know if he doesn't want to stay, he'll ask to leave. He's not scared of THAT.  What he is scared of is loving someone, especially with the intensity he apparently loves the warden with, knowing how that is most likely going to end up.

yeah but he could have just as easily used his mask to test the waters, so to speak. it just would have been nice to hear he say out right he enjoyed your company in a nonsexual way and just wanted to be with you, instead of using the crows or the blight as an excuse.

even in the epilouge he brings the crows up again as an excuse to travel with you. really zevran? *sigh* that is just so old. please, just let your pride go for like, one second. one. promise it won't kill you.

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

To be fair, I think Alistair has a right to be pissed.  Kind prooved his point about people coddling him, especially if you made him king.

You know I've personally wondering how a person can get Alistair to refuse, but I've always had at least decent Coercion...you'd have to have like....0 to get refused.

I had to do an "Aaaawww" at your last bit too. That is very sweet, but I don't know myself and my PCs would feel very very guilty for that.

No, you just have to be VERY careful with the dialogs you select if you want him to turn it down.  My coercion is always maxed.  My Warden didn't feel guilty when Alistair refused to let her die.  She felt incredibly grateful as well. That death gave him freedom from a cold, lonely life and let him die a hero, one who would be sung about for centuries to come.

But you know, if you do the buddy ending with Alistair, he asks to take the blow as well.  One thing he may say is that you have saved his life dozes of times over, and he would like to return the favor.  The real difference, of course, is in the buddy ending, you can refuse to let him do it.  But I really REALLY like and respect Alistair as a war buddy.

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

yeah but he could have just as easily used his mask to test the waters, so to speak. it just would have been nice to hear he say out right he enjoyed your company in a nonsexual way and just wanted to be with you, instead of using the crows or the blight as an excuse.

even in the epilouge he brings the crows up again as an excuse to travel with you. really zevran? *sigh* that is just so old. please, just let your pride go for like, one second. one. promise it won't kill you.

Ah, since I always choose to rebuild the grey wardens (after all, she IS a grey warden and it needs to be done), and Zevran goes with her and helps her recruit and train though he doesn't actually join. And he's not using the crows as an excuse to stay with her.  He's pointing out that they will come after him and she may want him to go for that reason.  But there are a couple things he may say to her if she asks him to stay with her that while aren't hearts and flowers, are definitely heart felt.  Also, if she tells him he can go as long as he comes back, he says something incredibly sweet, but from his voice, you can tell he regrets it.

Heh, and ToH, he can't even have sex with the Warden at that point he's so confused.  His entire world is turned upside down.  And keep in mind, he is probably unsure of what the Warden thinks about him as well.  As far as he knows, it is casual on her side as well -- you really have very few options to say anything different.  You're his best friend, you're his lover, you even have a bit of a future planned out.  But love?  

Zevran is not a perfect character.  If you want the hearts and flowers, he may not be the one for you because those beautiful words are few and far between and at times incredibly awkward.  Would it be nice if he could handle being in love in stride from the beginning?  Sure.  But given who he is, the fact that this time he can not only accept it, but embrace it, is something amazing.  Especially considering how it's supposed to end.

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 janvier 2010 - 12:22 .

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

To be fair, I think Alistair has a right to be pissed.  Kind prooved his point about people coddling him, especially if you made him king.

You know I've personally wondering how a person can get Alistair to refuse, but I've always had at least decent Coercion...you'd have to have like....0 to get refused.

I had to do an "Aaaawww" at your last bit too. That is very sweet, but I don't know myself and my PCs would feel very very guilty for that.

No, you just have to be VERY careful with the dialogs you select if you want him to turn it down.  My coercion is always maxed.  My Warden didn't feel guilty when Alistair refused to let her die.  She felt incredibly grateful as well. That death gave him freedom from a cold, lonely life and let him die a hero, one who would be sung about for centuries to come.

But you know, if you do the buddy ending with Alistair, he asks to take the blow as well.  One thing he may say is that you have saved his life dozes of times over, and he would like to return the favor.  The real difference, of course, is in the buddy ending, you can refuse to let him do it.  But I really REALLY like and respect Alistair as a war buddy.

Really? what dialouge did you choose such that he rejects you? I've gone through that tree extensively and the only time he doesn't go through with it is if my pc backs down.

i've yet to get the buddy stuff with alistair since i've yet to finish a male pc past origins.

[Sarielle]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

To be fair, I think Alistair has a right to be pissed.  Kind prooved his point about people coddling him, especially if you made him king.

You know I've personally wondering how a person can get Alistair to refuse, but I've always had at least decent Coercion...you'd have to have like....0 to get refused.

I had to do an "Aaaawww" at your last bit too. That is very sweet, but I don't know myself and my PCs would feel very very guilty for that.

No, you just have to be VERY careful with the dialogs you select if you want him to turn it down.  My coercion is always maxed.  My Warden didn't feel guilty when Alistair refused to let her die.  She felt incredibly grateful as well. That death gave him freedom from a cold, lonely life and let him die a hero, one who would be sung about for centuries to come.

But you know, if you do the buddy ending with Alistair, he asks to take the blow as well.  One thing he may say is that you have saved his life dozes of times over, and he would like to return the favor.  The real difference, of course, is in the buddy ending, you can refuse to let him do it.  But I really REALLY like and respect Alistair as a war buddy.

Really? what dialouge did you choose such that he rejects you? I've gone through that tree extensively and the only time he doesn't go through with it is if my pc backs down.

i've yet to get the buddy stuff with alistair since i've yet to finish a male pc past origins.

I failed the persuade on my mage (zero coercion) that he'd already dumped (which, honestly....that character always ends up a tragic character when I write for her, and I was perversely happy it turned out that way) and she had to pull the "If you love me" line to finally get him to do it. So presumably if he hadn't loved her (even though he ended it) she would have been unable to convince him.

She'd happily have died though -- probably preferred it, under the circumstances; she just wanted to be certain Alistair didn't have to finish it if she failed.

...I'm very cruel to that character =/ lol

Modifié par Sarielle, 30 janvier 2010 - 12:29 .

[AlastairsQuEeN]

Lol, you should know who i always pick as my lover. But on the 360, i have slept with everyone..lol, i am an achievment monger.

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

To be fair, I think Alistair has a right to be pissed.  Kind prooved his point about people coddling him, especially if you made him king.

You know I've personally wondering how a person can get Alistair to refuse, but I've always had at least decent Coercion...you'd have to have like....0 to get refused.

I had to do an "Aaaawww" at your last bit too. That is very sweet, but I don't know myself and my PCs would feel very very guilty for that.

No, you just have to be VERY careful with the dialogs you select if you want him to turn it down.  My coercion is always maxed.  My Warden didn't feel guilty when Alistair refused to let her die.  She felt incredibly grateful as well. That death gave him freedom from a cold, lonely life and let him die a hero, one who would be sung about for centuries to come.

But you know, if you do the buddy ending with Alistair, he asks to take the blow as well.  One thing he may say is that you have saved his life dozes of times over, and he would like to return the favor.  The real difference, of course, is in the buddy ending, you can refuse to let him do it.  But I really REALLY like and respect Alistair as a war buddy.

Really? what dialouge did you choose such that he rejects you? I've gone through that tree extensively and the only time he doesn't go through with it is if my pc backs down.

i've yet to get the buddy stuff with alistair since i've yet to finish a male pc past origins.

Of course I can't reproduce it on any of my saves which means that I think you have to tell Riroden that you are not sacrificing yourself for this, and Alistair volunteers to do it.  Or i'm misremembering and backed down and he was very relieved.

Buddy ending is more difficult to do on a female character for sure, but I've had a few bug out on me, including my current one, that IS giving me the buddy ending.  Actually, this game is so bugged with the Alistair romance. Not only am I getting the buddy ending, but he tried to dump her at the landsmeet.  I think it has to do with letting Alistair strike the final blow because even though I set up the marriage, I didn't want Anora on the throne.

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

yeah but he could have just as easily used his mask to test the waters, so to speak. it just would have been nice to hear he say out right he enjoyed your company in a nonsexual way and just wanted to be with you, instead of using the crows or the blight as an excuse.

even in the epilouge he brings the crows up again as an excuse to travel with you. really zevran? *sigh* that is just so old. please, just let your pride go for like, one second. one. promise it won't kill you.

Ah, since I always choose to rebuild the grey wardens (after all, she IS a grey warden and it needs to be done), and Zevran goes with her and helps her recruit and train though he doesn't actually join. And he's not using the crows as an excuse to stay with her. He's pointing out that they will come after him and she may want him to go for that reason. But there are a couple things he may say to her if she asks him to stay with her that while aren't hearts and flowers, are definitely heart felt. Also, if she tells him he can go as long as he comes back, he says something incredibly sweet, but from his voice, you can tell he regrets it.

i've choosen the warden ending along with a bunch of others and have always gotten the same response. he always brings up the crows first, talks about assassinating and then going with you, while making a big joke of it all.

the joking is fine, but i wish he would just say he wants to be with my pc. that's all, no story to go with it, no ellaboration needed, nothing. if he could do that and then bring up the fact that the crows will be after him and then ask if you would still want to be with him, that would be perfect, imo.

it's like he doesn't want to take a chance and put himself at risk almost. and in that way, you have to constantly reassure him. which is weird because this is what it seemed like people were saying about alistair. this is almost a circular discussion....

Heh, and ToH, he can't even have sex with the Warden at that point he's so confused.  His entire world is turned upside down.  And keep in mind, he is probably unsure of what the Warden thinks about him as well.  As far as he knows, it is casual on her side as well -- you really have very few options to say anything different.  You're his best friend, you're his lover, you even have a bit of a future planned out.  But love?  

Zevran is not a perfect character.  If you want the hearts and flowers, he may not be the one for you because those beautiful words are few and far between and at times incredibly awkward.  Would it be nice if he could handle being in love in stride from the beginning?  Sure.  But given who he is, the fact that this time he can not only accept it, but embrace it, is something amazing.  Especially considering how it's supposed to end.

actually cant you initiate sex with him regardless? i get why he may be hesitant at first but once she's reassured him a few times i wish he would just come out and say what he wants or feels. you almost get this with the earring, which is nice, but i wanted more. maybe i am just being greedy.

i dont want hearts and butterflies all the time, but considering all both the warden and zev have been through i dont think asking him to just speak straight forwardly without exaggerated stories or his mask is much, especially after the archdemon has been slain. she's done so several times, i think it's only fair zevran do the same.

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 30 janvier 2010 - 12:49 .

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

i've choosen the warden ending along with a bunch of others and have always gotten the same response. he always brings up the crows first, talks about assassinating and then going with you, while making a big joke of it all.

the joking is fine, but i wish he would just say he wants to be with my pc. that's all, no story to go with it, no ellaboration needed, nothing. if he could do that and then bring up the fact that the crows will be after him and then ask if you would still want to be with him, that would be perfect, imo.

it's like he doesn't want to take a chance and put himself at risk almost. and in that way, you have to constantly reassure him. which is weird because this is what it seemed like people were saying about alistair. this is almost a circular discussion....

WARNING END GAME SPOILER

Spoiler end game:

Leave him at the gates:
In truth, for the chance to be by your side, I would storm the gates of the dark city itself.  Never doubt it.

Take him with you:
By your side, I would willingly storm the gates of the dark city itself.  Do not doubt it

Sounds like, to me, he says it.  

Edit: And the written words cannot do his voice justice.  When he says either of those, you know it's the truth.

Second edit: And no, ToH, until he sorts out his feelings he won't have sex with your character.   And as an interesting aside, if you haven't had sex with him at that point, he tells you straight out he does NOT want to talk about feelings.  It takes a couple of dialogs, which you can stretch out however you want to (either back to back or have it take awhile before you approach him again). 

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 janvier 2010 - 12:57 .

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

i've choosen the warden ending along with a bunch of others and have always gotten the same response. he always brings up the crows first, talks about assassinating and then going with you, while making a big joke of it all.

the joking is fine, but i wish he would just say he wants to be with my pc. that's all, no story to go with it, no ellaboration needed, nothing. if he could do that and then bring up the fact that the crows will be after him and then ask if you would still want to be with him, that would be perfect, imo.

it's like he doesn't want to take a chance and put himself at risk almost. and in that way, you have to constantly reassure him. which is weird because this is what it seemed like people were saying about alistair. this is almost a circular discussion....

WARNING END GAME SPOILER

Spoiler end game:

Leave him at the gates:
In truth, for the chance to be by your side, I would storm the gates of the dark city itself.  Never doubt it.

Take him with you:
By your side, I would willingly storm the gates of the dark city itself.  Do not doubt it

Sounds like, to me, he says it.  

Edit: And the written words cannot do his voice justice.  When he says either of those, you know it's the truth.

hey you're right, i had forgotton the exact lines but only remembered the black city part

i probably didnt remember because i think all the party members in good standing say something of want to go with you, except shale.

well i stand corrected. shame that's that only real time you get it. it's also a shame you dont get a final kiss scene with him unlike Ali, but I think that is an Ali only thing since the men folk don't get that option at all.

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...


hey you're right, i had forgotton the exact lines but only remembered the black city part

i probably didnt remember because i think all the party members in good standing say something of want to go with you, except shale.

well i stand corrected. shame that's that only real time you get it. it's also a shame you dont get a final kiss scene with him unlike Ali, but I think that is an Ali only thing since the men folk don't get that option at all.

*grin* I edited my last post to address Zevran refusing to have sex with your character until he sorts his feelings out -- which he does on both counts.

And yes, that kiss is uniquely Alistair, and is a perfect ending for him.  No one should get that but him!  I am on a PC so I use dialog tweaks so Zev gets a kiss before going onto the roof -- but that moment; that is Alistair at his finest.  I love it.

And yes, everyone wants to go with your character provided they like you enough.  But not everyone is in a romance, which gives Zev's words a bit more weight.

Edit: And click on him enough, he'll say "Si, Amora."  And he always greets you, "I am yours."  So it's not like you get NOTHING!

Second edit: I'm tempted to post his declaration because if you honestly think he doesn't say it, you must have missed it, or skipped over it.  It's absolutely amazing.  A lot of people do miss it, because it comes after he's refusing to go to the tent.  If you have Alistair in a romance as well, you'll never see it.

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:16 .

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...


hey you're right, i had forgotton the exact lines but only remembered the black city part

i probably didnt remember because i think all the party members in good standing say something of want to go with you, except shale.

well i stand corrected. shame that's that only real time you get it. it's also a shame you dont get a final kiss scene with him unlike Ali, but I think that is an Ali only thing since the men folk don't get that option at all.

*grin* I edited my last post to address Zevran refusing to have sex with your character until he sorts his feelings out -- which he does on both counts.

And yes, that kiss is uniquely Alistair, and is a perfect ending for him.  No one should get that but him!  I am on a PC so I use dialog tweaks so Zev gets a kiss before going onto the roof -- but that moment; that is Alistair at his finest.  I love it.

And yes, everyone wants to go with your character provided they like you enough.  But not everyone is in a romance, which gives Zev's words a bit more weight.

Edit: And click on him enough, he'll say "Si, Amora."  And he always greets you, "I am yours."  So it's not like you get NOTHING!

I know, we kept editing our posts opposite time of each other.

I waited this time for you to edited yours.

What I didn't like was how few kisses there were for Zev, though I guess the same can be said for Leli.
I have 360 version so I do not get lovely mods. That's why I brought up the rooftop scene.

Something else I thought that was missing in general - hugs. I am definately a hugging and cuddling person so an embrace or something would have been nice.

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I know, we kept editing our posts opposite time of each other.

I waited this time for you to edited yours.

What I didn't like was how few kisses there were for Zev, though I guess the same can be said for Leli.
I have 360 version so I do not get lovely mods. That's why I brought up the rooftop scene.

Something else I thought that was missing in general - hugs. I am definately a hugging and cuddling person so an embrace or something would have been nice.

Hahaha, I added another edit.  

I agree hugs would be nice.  And dialog tweaks adds something that should be in there to begin with for Zev and Lel. I understand that more experienced people may not feel the same need for PDA, but still, it's nice to have in there.

Edit: I swore I wasn't going to edit but . . . I know you saw his declaration, but I wonder how you got out of it that he wasn't saying you were special.  He tells you that loving you is against everything he was taught, but he can't help it.  He will take the relationship as far as you are willing to take it.  I find his declaration one of the most amazing things I've ever read.  No, he doesn't say "I love you."  The ONLY time he'll refer to you as his love (in English anyway) is if you break up with him and he leaves.  Love is not a positive word to him, but he shows and says in every other way that he is completely yours.

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:25 .

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I know, we kept editing our posts opposite time of each other.

I waited this time for you to edited yours.

What I didn't like was how few kisses there were for Zev, though I guess the same can be said for Leli.
I have 360 version so I do not get lovely mods. That's why I brought up the rooftop scene.

Something else I thought that was missing in general - hugs. I am definately a hugging and cuddling person so an embrace or something would have been nice.

Hahaha, I added another edit.  

I agree hugs would be nice.  And dialog tweaks adds something that should be in there to begin with for Zev and Lel. I understand that more experienced people may not feel the same need for PDA, but still, it's nice to have in there.

I just cant win it seems.

what do you mean by 'more experienced'? older or people who engage in sex more or what? i just thought it would add a more tender side to the romanceable partners. at the very least make the sex scenes more true instead of just showing up in armor and talking. or has pillow talk gone out of fashion in fereldan?


Edit~ Good Lord woman! LOL enough with that!

Yes, I've gone through all that with him. I don't know why I don't really like him more, other than the explanation I gave before that I don't find him attractive. Maybe if Alistair had long hair I would like him less? I hope not.  It's not that he has to say "I love you", my first play through with Alistair I never got one of those, but I just find, I don't know, he's not my type? I don't see how other people can't not like Alistair, personally, and when I try to figure it out, I fail. I don't see how you can do a political marriage with him as a HNF, especially given that there are so many hints imo, that even if you don't start a romance with him, he is majorly crushing on you.

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:31 .

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I just cant win it seems.

what do you mean by 'more experienced'? older or people who engage in sex more or what? i just thought it would add a more tender side to the romanceable partners. at the very least make the sex scenes more true instead of just showing up in armor and talking. or has pillow talk gone out of fashion in fereldan?

I added it to my game -- I agree that it should be in there.  But yes, you're talking two seasoned seducers who use sex as a tool; they may have a different take on PDA.  Both Alistair and Morrigan are innocent in their own ways, and first love is an extremely heady experience.

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:29 .

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I just cant win it seems.

what do you mean by 'more experienced'? older or people who engage in sex more or what? i just thought it would add a more tender side to the romanceable partners. at the very least make the sex scenes more true instead of just showing up in armor and talking. or has pillow talk gone out of fashion in fereldan?

I added it to my game -- I agree that it should be in there.  But yes, you're talking two seasoned seducers who use sex as a tool; they may have a different take on PDA.  Both Alistair and Morrigan are innocent in their own ways, and first love is an extremely heady experience.

Death. Hopefully you don't edit again by the time i post this.

I think two people who are experienced can still enjoy hugging. a relationship isn't just about sex, and it doesn't need to be PDA. Just a close moment between two individuals without having to resort to sexual actions. I don't know, maybe it's me but I find there is something comforting about being physically close to someone that i love without it necessarily being sex or leading up to it.

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:35 .

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I just cant win it seems.

what do you mean by 'more experienced'? older or people who engage in sex more or what? i just thought it would add a more tender side to the romanceable partners. at the very least make the sex scenes more true instead of just showing up in armor and talking. or has pillow talk gone out of fashion in fereldan?

I added it to my game -- I agree that it should be in there.  But yes, you're talking two seasoned seducers who use sex as a tool; they may have a different take on PDA.  Both Alistair and Morrigan are innocent in their own ways, and first love is an extremely heady experience.

Death. Hopefully you don't edit again by the time i post this.

I think two people who are experienced can still enjoy hugging. a relationship isn't just about sex, and it doesn't need to be PDA. Just a close moment between two individuals without having to resort to sexual actions. I don't know, maybe it's me but I find there is something comforting about being physically close to someone that i love without it necessarily being sex or leading up to it.

I agree with you.  I like the kiss option.   Now RtO is out, and caused my game to freeze  I hope it's runnable!

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...


Yes, I've gone through all that with him. I don't know why I don't really like him more, other than the explanation I gave before that I don't find him attractive. Maybe if Alistair had long hair I would like him less? I hope not.  It's not that he has to say "I love you", my first play through with Alistair I never got one of those, but I just find, I don't know, he's not my type? I don't see how other people can't not like Alistair, personally, and when I try to figure it out, I fail. I don't see how you can do a political marriage with him as a HNF, especially given that there are so many hints imo, that even if you don't start a romance with him, he is majorly crushing on you.

Not finding Zev attractive is a good enough reason.

it's funny, if you play Alistair in a non-romantic way -- as in never flirting with him at ALL, even though you can open the romance, it really doesn't come across as him crushing on you. Sure he finds you beautiful -- the warden always IS beautiful in everyone's eyes -- but he's not crushing on you strongly enough to hit on you at all unless you hit on him first.  It's like there's a line there that neither of you are willing to cross.  You can always tell him you find him handsome as well, but that doesn't mean you're crushing on him (but telling him that will turn on the romance).

Marrying him as a political move gives you a different ending, different dialogs. His asking about the engagement, you know how he sounds -- not happy, more surprised? It comes off a whole lot better in that context of a political marriage.  Of course, after that initial dialog he comes off as happy if he's in love, but he certainly is not displeased about the political marriage.  One striking difference with the buddy lines after the landsmeet if you're not getting married -- he requests in a way you can't really refuse that you stay with him and help him rule.  The only time Alistair wants the warden to go away is if he's breaking up with her.  If he likes and trusts the warden, he wants her there, ruling with him.  Even if he's been dumped, he asks the warden to help him.  In fact, he insists.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 janvier 2010 - 02:47 .

[Thiefy]

ejoslin wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...


Yes, I've gone through all that with him. I don't know why I don't really like him more, other than the explanation I gave before that I don't find him attractive. Maybe if Alistair had long hair I would like him less? I hope not.  It's not that he has to say "I love you", my first play through with Alistair I never got one of those, but I just find, I don't know, he's not my type? I don't see how other people can't not like Alistair, personally, and when I try to figure it out, I fail. I don't see how you can do a political marriage with him as a HNF, especially given that there are so many hints imo, that even if you don't start a romance with him, he is majorly crushing on you.

Not finding Zev attractive is a good enough reason.

it's funny, if you play Alistair in a non-romantic way -- as in never flirting with him at ALL, even though you can open the romance, it really doesn't come across as him crushing on you. Sure he finds you beautiful -- the warden always IS beautiful in everyone's eyes -- but he's not crushing on you strongly enough to hit on you at all unless you hit on him first.  It's like there's a line there that neither of you are willing to cross.  You can always tell him you find him handsome as well, but that doesn't mean you're crushing on him (but telling him that will turn on the romance).

Marrying him as a political move gives you a different ending, different dialogs. His asking about the engagement, you know how he sounds -- not happy, more surprised? It comes off a whole lot better in that context of a political marriage.  Of course, after that initial dialog he comes off as happy if he's in love, but he certainly is not displeased about the political marriage.  One striking difference with the buddy lines after the landsmeet if you're not getting married -- he requests in a way you can't really refuse that you stay with him and help him rule.  The only time Alistair wants the warden to go away is if he's breaking up with her.  If he likes and trusts the warden, he wants her there, ruling with him.  Even if he's been dumped, he asks the warden to help him.  In fact, he insists.  

Actually I've gone through the game with him as friends only, with all the dialouge options availeble just to see different reactions to dialouge given certain events, that's why I said it seems like he is crushing on the female warden, given that they are in good standing anyway. he actually does say a few cute/sweet lines to her even if they are 'just friends', but it could be me misinterpretting those lines since i dont know if he says them to male wardens.

that and i've found a few really weird lines that are completely NOT flirty and absolutely normal flip on the romance switch for him. There's one where the warden says "Just try to use that line on me" after one of his jokes and if his approval is high enough it will switch it on.  He then flirts with her afterwards and the romance starts. Really Ali? Some of the other triggers can go either way too, like if you give him duncan's shield and say "anything for you" it starts it, even though that's a pretty common thing for two friends to say to each other. Some of the dialouge isn't really as obvious as Zevrans (though he doesn't come off nearly as bad as Leli), so you could honestly not really mean anything and he would take that 'first step'.

I've done the landsmeet and put him on the throne unharden with a buddy warden, and I was actually surprised at his reaction given that Anora had backstabbed us. I can see why some guys may not like him from theat convo since he kind of bullies the PC into helping him lol. My only thought is why can't he be that forceful when in a romance with the PC? >___> But you've gotten Alistair to -100 approval right? Does he still want your help after the landsmeet then?

[SusanStoHelit]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Actually I've gone through the game with him as friends only, with all the dialouge options availeble just to see different reactions to dialouge given certain events, that's why I said it seems like he is crushing on the female warden, given that they are in good standing anyway. he actually does say a few cute/sweet lines to her even if they are 'just friends', but it could be me misinterpretting those lines since i dont know if he says them to male wardens.

Without knowing which lines you're referring to, I couldn't say for sure. My only complete playthrough has been with a male warden, but I have 11 characters at various points along the way. And I have to say, based on what I've seen so far, that outside of a romance there is very little if any change.

My male pcs are still really close to Alistair, but things that sound 'flirty' when said to a female just sound 'friendly' to a male. I think we can read into things too much. It's possible I'm missing something of course, but really, so far, the evidence points to it being subjective. We interpret into his behaviour what we want, or like, or whatever. It may be that 'family' thing. Alistair talks of the Wardens as being like a family. If you're female, even when not in a romance, it may seem that Alistair's actions which are meant to be brotherly give the appearance of a crush.

[ejoslin]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Actually I've gone through the game with him as friends only, with all the dialouge options availeble just to see different reactions to dialouge given certain events, that's why I said it seems like he is crushing on the female warden, given that they are in good standing anyway. he actually does say a few cute/sweet lines to her even if they are 'just friends', but it could be me misinterpretting those lines since i dont know if he says them to male wardens.

that and i've found a few really weird lines that are completely NOT flirty and absolutely normal flip on the romance switch for him. There's one where the warden says "Just try to use that line on me" after one of his jokes and if his approval is high enough it will switch it on.  He then flirts with her afterwards and the romance starts. Really Ali? Some of the other triggers can go either way too, like if you give him duncan's shield and say "anything for you" it starts it, even though that's a pretty common thing for two friends to say to each other. Some of the dialouge isn't really as obvious as Zevrans (though he doesn't come off nearly as bad as Leli), so you could honestly not really mean anything and he would take that 'first step'.

I've done the landsmeet and put him on the throne unharden with a buddy warden, and I was actually surprised at his reaction given that Anora had backstabbed us. I can see why some guys may not like him from theat convo since he kind of bullies the PC into helping him lol. My only thought is why can't he be that forceful when in a romance with the PC? >___> But you've gotten Alistair to -100 approval right? Does he still want your help after the landsmeet then?

Ok, if you say, "Just TRY one of those lines on me," and he says, "I just may," there's only one answer that will turn the romance on.  And as someone who has always had just as many male friends as female friends, that scenario actually is fairly realistic.  It doesn't mean someone is crushing on them, I don't think.  

Hmmm, it is easy to turn the romance on with any of them, but it's also easy not to.  I just get the feeling that Alistair and the Warden are best friends if you don't turn on the romance.  Alistair may want to fall in love and he may be travelling with this fabulous woman, but if you don't turn the romance on, it doesn't feel like a guy in puppy love.  And really, all the romances are very easy to accidentally turn on, and depending on how late you turn them on, you may end up with someone at 100 love at the very start.  

I never did finish the game where I got Alistair to -100 -- I need to, but I feel bad because i know it won't end well for him at all. He won't be hardened because he'll never tell her about Goldanna, I'm not sure what he will and won't do with persuasion checks while hostile.  But even though he hates the Warden, he still trusts her.  It's hard to say, there are a few lines in there in the political marriage that sound like they actually belong for a character he doesn't like so thinks may end up ok ("We're not exactly friends"). I doubt that he'll want the Warden's help in that case; he thinks she's a sociopath.  I do have to admit Alistair's "hate speech" is pretty moving.

I do know if you marry Alistair and have never romanced him, you do NOT get the impression that he is pining away for his queen.  If he's romanced and dumped, however, you do get that feeling. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 janvier 2010 - 02:20 .

[Sabriana]

You have a game with Alistair at -100? Oh my....

Well, if you ever get the motivation to play that one out, please post about it.