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[SUGGESTION] How to get people to not hate scanning **UPDATED**


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#26
Lukedude08

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Fullsizeluxury wrote...

Lukedude08 wrote...

honestly the only thing i would agree with would be the size increase or maybe speed increase while scanning.........everything else is your problem with the game.  You scan a planet for just enough to get an upgrade then cant remember what planet to come back to finish it off........thats your fault not bioware's.  Everything else you talked about changing would make the subject of "scanning" redundant.  You SCAN the planet for resources.  IRL would you have indicators saying " okay here's where everything is and how much of it there is" .  Thats just dumb.  Your ideas are good but its these kinds of ideas that ruin great games with LOTS of content and time consuming chores that make the game longer and better.


if you read it more carefully i usually set aside time to fully scan a few planets, but every now and then I'll just do the bare minimum, and I'm sure that's not just MY problem, and if you read the full explanations for everything, you'd see that i included in the solutions a reason why i think my "upgrades" are more believable that then current system

either way I'm not dumbing down the system, like it said, the distribution, concentrations, and total amounts of each resource on the planet would be the same, the only difference being is you can see where the places are which you've already found NOTHING, or detected SOMETHING

no matter what the user still has to actively do all of the scanning and probing they just don't have to accidentally do it twice or three times out of uncertainty



well you're right about the scan upgrading.......they could have put a bit more into that.  I was quite surprised and didnt really notice any differense in scanning after i upgraded it.  BUT, making it easier to scan or easier to tell what resources are on the planet will ultimately make the game shorter and less detailed, and this is why im saying that thee ideas are good but shouldnt be put into a game like this.  you have 30 probes without the probe bay, and you have an indicator which tells you weather or not the planet has a high  amount of resources.  This should be plenty of information to tell you weather or not you will have a high success in getting a ton of resources.

#27
Wintermist

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Another solution could be that you hire a mining crew that mines the whole planet for you, but it cost money to do it. Or let you buy and sell resources on Illium, which is supposed to be a trading world.

#28
Lukedude08

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Wintermist wrote...

Lukedude08 wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

I think they should add a second upgrade, that you get later in the game which scans the whole planet immediately. You would still have to travel through all planets, but save yourself hours of micromanaging the scanner on everyone of them.


lol and why dont we just put all the missions on one planet as well.  Like i said, all these are good ideas.......if you want to take an already vast and LONG game and turn it into a "play and quit" game.


Well, you wouldn't have to get the upgrade if you rather enjoy the tedious repetetive work fo scanning them, I can tell you now, I DO NOT ENJOY IT THAT MUCH. I was fun for 2 planets, then it turned into a chore. A very boring chore.

Well i guess if you want the game to be short and dull and lack of detail then you can upgrade thing to where you can complete missions, get resources, earn money in a blink of an eye.....but really tho, all these posts about making the game easier is about their desire for instant gratification....and unfortunately for those people......bioware makes games that does not advocate instant gratification and that is what makes the games so good.^_^



#29
Eradyn

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Lukedude08 wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

I must be one of the few who enjoyed it. :P Some things to help ease the scanning pains:

*Only bother with planets with scanning results that are "Good" or "Rich." When results fall below that, abandon scanning that planet.
*Only go for medium to large spikes.

If I could change anything with the galaxy map: Allow us a zoom out function to view the whole star-system without having to move the ship.


The zoom out galaxy map would actually be pretty cool.........but they shouldnt take out the ship movement function.  I felt that all these little quirks that took up a bit of time added to the gameplay time needed to complete it.  It gives that sense of "travel and investigation" rather than just point-click-teleport to location.


Don't get me wrong; I love the little ship and navigating with that directly.  I meant let us zoom out to see the whole map instead of having to rely on moving the ship itself to see what's just out of sight. But by all means they should keep the moving ship navigator thing. ^^

#30
Lukedude08

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Eradyn wrote...

Lukedude08 wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

I must be one of the few who enjoyed it. :P Some things to help ease the scanning pains:

*Only bother with planets with scanning results that are "Good" or "Rich." When results fall below that, abandon scanning that planet.
*Only go for medium to large spikes.

If I could change anything with the galaxy map: Allow us a zoom out function to view the whole star-system without having to move the ship.


The zoom out galaxy map would actually be pretty cool.........but they shouldnt take out the ship movement function.  I felt that all these little quirks that took up a bit of time added to the gameplay time needed to complete it.  It gives that sense of "travel and investigation" rather than just point-click-teleport to location.


Don't get me wrong; I love the little ship and navigating with that directly.  I meant let us zoom out to see the whole map instead of having to rely on moving the ship itself to see what's just out of sight. But by all means they should keep the moving ship navigator thing. ^^


yeah well i side with you on that one, having to drive to the edge of a solar system to find the right continuation arrow was a bit annoying, so yeah a zoom out function would be really great.  I think they just tried to make it a bit more independant and not having to rely on being able to see where you're going all the time.

#31
Sonris

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Scanning seemed like it was very much below commander shepard for doing, he has a fully manned ship with on board scanners and an AI that can process data much faster then any human. It just does not fit the commander shepard was in charge of the mineing operations on to be of being captain of the ship and vanguard of the mission.

#32
Fullsizeluxury

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Sonris wrote...

Scanning seemed like it was very much below commander shepard for doing, he has a fully manned ship with on board scanners and an AI that can process data much faster then any human. It just does not fit the commander shepard was in charge of the mineing operations on to be of being captain of the ship and vanguard of the mission.


not only that but i'm suprised that the normandy is even tasked with gathering resources at all, much less providing its own gear/ship upgrades and planetary exploration, why would the illusive man spend so much  money bringing shepard back to life if he didnt plan on giving him access to Cerberus funds and resources in order to buy/research any upgrades he finds along the way?

its like restoring a Shelby Cobra but putting some litle honda 4 cylinder engine
in it or buying a Rolls Royce with cloth seats, you just don't do it

#33
Fullsizeluxury

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bump for purpose of topic clarification

#34
Lukedude08

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Fullsizeluxury wrote...

Sonris wrote...

Scanning seemed like it was very much below commander shepard for doing, he has a fully manned ship with on board scanners and an AI that can process data much faster then any human. It just does not fit the commander shepard was in charge of the mineing operations on to be of being captain of the ship and vanguard of the mission.


not only that but i'm suprised that the normandy is even tasked with gathering resources at all, much less providing its own gear/ship upgrades and planetary exploration, why would the illusive man spend so much  money bringing shepard back to life if he didnt plan on giving him access to Cerberus funds and resources in order to buy/research any upgrades he finds along the way?

its like restoring a Shelby Cobra but putting some litle honda 4 cylinder engine
in it or buying a Rolls Royce with cloth seats, you just don't do it


are u seriously starting to suggest that the games upgrading system is too hard?

Whats the point in having a shelby cobra project car if someone gives u a million bucks to fix it up all at once....it takes away the point of it being a PROJECT car.

I'm not trying to flame you for the hell of it, i just cant stand when ppl  discriminate against a compnay like bioware and the masterpiece game they made......all the things you are suggesting they "fix" or "improve" would completely make the RPG element of this game completely and utterly pointless.

#35
Wintermist

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I found scanning so repetative that I use a trainer at start of game to give me tons of resources and I simply pretend that I do the scanning each time I sweep through the system to identify my planets. That works for me so I'm not really affected by the tedium of it all anymore.

#36
Fullsizeluxury

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Lukedude08 wrote...

Fullsizeluxury wrote...

Sonris wrote...

Scanning seemed like it was very much below commander shepard for doing, he has a fully manned ship with on board scanners and an AI that can process data much faster then any human. It just does not fit the commander shepard was in charge of the mineing operations on to be of being captain of the ship and vanguard of the mission.


not only that but i'm suprised that the normandy is even tasked with gathering resources at all, much less providing its own gear/ship upgrades and planetary exploration, why would the illusive man spend so much  money bringing shepard back to life if he didnt plan on giving him access to Cerberus funds and resources in order to buy/research any upgrades he finds along the way?

its like restoring a Shelby Cobra but putting some litle honda 4 cylinder engine
in it or buying a Rolls Royce with cloth seats, you just don't do it


are u seriously starting to suggest that the games upgrading system is too hard?

Whats the point in having a shelby cobra project car if someone gives u a million bucks to fix it up all at once....it takes away the point of it being a PROJECT car.

I'm not trying to flame you for the hell of it, i just cant stand when ppl  discriminate against a compnay like bioware and the masterpiece game they made......all the things you are suggesting they "fix" or "improve" would completely make the RPG element of this game completely and utterly pointless.


alright kid, 1. how old are you? 2. learn what a joke is

seriously you can't be older than 14 if you don't understand that the point of a forum isn't to make a million posts saying "this game is amazing bioware you did everything right, let me get on my knees for you cuz i wanna blow you so bad right now", its to discuss anything and everything related to the forum category. the first thing you should have read (if you read from left to right, top to bottom, like most of us english speakers do) was the word [SUGGESTION] in the topic title, which usually means "this is ok right now, but IF you want my input, this is what i would change"

second of all, whether you want to admit it or not, ME2 is much less of an RPG than Mass Effect was, yes the game is longer, yes there are more story-centric missions, but what it comes down to is that ME1 was a combat driven RPG whereas ME2 is an RPG driven shooter

in ME1 you could go "grind" levels by doing the side planets, where each kill gives XP, every assignment gives XP, most conversations gave you XP when you either added something to your codex or were able to charm/intimidate someone, every hack, bypass, and examine gave you XP.

in ME2 the only time you gain XP is at the end of a mission, the hidden assignments give 125 xp each which means 8 side missions to a level or 1 story mission, the story side missions give only 40, you get NO xp for kills, NO xp for hacking/bypassing/examining things, and while i'm only level 23, i'm pretty sure there is enough game left for me to get to level 30 in one playthrough of ME2 if i complete everything, whereas in ME1 it took AT LEAST 2 playthroughs to hit level 60

yes these have been some small things so far, they both still have pretty open worlds, blah blah blah, but there is one MAJOR part of an RPG that bioware completely removed from ME2 (and it was one of the things i honestly really liked about ME1) THE LOOT

other than heavy weapons, you start with 5 weapons after the "prologue" and at the end of the game there is a total of 10. 2 heavy pistols, 2 smg's, 2 shotguns, 2 assault rifles, and 2 sniper rifles. none of them have numeric stats, and more seem to all be options of preference instead of quality, as far as i can tell, these are them
Sniper rifle -- High DMG single shot -- Medium DMG semiauto
SMG -- burst fire -- automatic
Heavy Pistol -- High DMG low rate of fire -- medium damage high rate of fire
Shotgun -- high dmg pump action -- medium damage semiauto

seeing a trend here?

now i'm not saying there weren't issues with ME1's looting, inventory, and weapon systems, but if bioware called me and said "which should we go with for ME3" i'd say neither, i wanna be able to loot ****, no matter how worthless it is, as long as every now and then there is a gem in there for me to get excited about, in ME1 there were at least 15-20 times for each playthrough where i'd get a new gun and be really excited to test it out, in mass effect, i get 5 of those moments, and thats only if im a soldier, and even then, since both my weapons and enemies are scaling up with every level, i don't notice a difference, because i've never had an actual "outdated" weapon

Now i'm going to stop abruptly because if i keep typing i won't get to play at all tonight, because i could go on

and before anyone starts to flame this post, know that i do love ME2 overall as a game, and while i do love bioware for fixing a lot of the things i had problems with in ME1, i'm also a little disappointed over some of the features that they took out as well, but its a sequel and i'd be a naieve little girl if i thought i was going to be FULLY satisfied with it.

the statements above weren't an attack on either ME2 or Bioware as a dev team because they have made a fine piece of art, but just proving to LUKEDUKE08 that he is a ****** if he thinks that a surveying minigame is what makes ME2 an RPG, which is just like saying that Quasar is what made ME1 an RPG

lol...f*g

Modifié par Fullsizeluxury, 29 janvier 2010 - 02:39 .


#37
Bryy_Miller

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Awesome Helmet wrote...

....or get rid of the whole thing entirely. i bought this game for the 3rd person shooting interactive story biotic flinging badassery, not to scan planets.

what the hell were they thinking? maybe itll be funner when im on drugs.


It's an RPG.

#38
Lukedude08

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haha hey fullsizeluxury thanks for dedicating an entire essay to me, im flattered hahahah....and im 20...how old are you kid?

#39
Seraph666

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Hmm, I fail to see how any of these changes would make the scanning actual fun. Sure it would be more convenient, but the fact of the matter is that the core element to the scanning is just down-right boring. It's basically a "paint the entire wall" mini-game but there's no "game" to it, it's just a task. There needs to be a challenge, rewards without effort or risk give no satisfaction.



Just compare it to the hacking and bypass mini-games. Even though neither of them are great at least they both require some concentration to succeed, and there is actually a "penalty" for failing.

#40
MrBiggens

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do not want. stfu op

#41
EG NeoMorph

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So far everything in the game is explained if you talk to the crew and other characters.



The reason for looking for elements is to pay for the upgrades... apparently the SR2 was really expensive to build by a third party (Cerberus) and they didn't have enough cash to finish it off... hence you have to try and find the money or raw materiel to complete the ship.



It's an RPG folks... it actually all gels together if you take the time to find out the things instead of wanting to blast through the main storyline.

#42
Alodar

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EG NeoMorph wrote...

It's an RPG folks... it actually all gels together if you take the time to find out the things instead of wanting to blast through the main storyline.


Absolutely -- and I desperately want to role play the story.

But scanning is in't role playing it's a mini-game that serves no RPG purpose.
It interrupts the flow and story and with mouse sensitivity issues really gets frustrating for me.

Alodar :)

#43
Whitering

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Keep scanning to a minimum until you get Thane. After that, scan as necessary. You really don't have to do much scanning to get every upgrade, especially on your second playthrough because you start with 50k element zero.

#44
4thearthling

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Probably already said but...I would appreciate an unlimited supply of probes.  This alone would remove some of the tedium.  They don't cost much so it wouldn't effect "balance" much.

#45
tam_raider

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The scanning is the most boring part for sure. Yeah, get minerals to get upgrades, but a quick scan could do that. Not take 5-10 min scanning one planet out of 5 in system. Then if in system with no way to buy probes, well that bites.

#46
RiouHotaru

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Alodar wrote...

EG NeoMorph wrote...

It's an RPG folks... it actually all gels together if you take the time to find out the things instead of wanting to blast through the main storyline.


Absolutely -- and I desperately want to role play the story.

But scanning is in't role playing it's a mini-game that serves no RPG purpose.
It interrupts the flow and story and with mouse sensitivity issues really gets frustrating for me.

Alodar :)


I guess the fanbase is truly unpleasable.  People complained about surveying planets and scouting in the Mako for resources, now you can do it without leaving the ship, and people STILL complain.  What I'm wondering then, is how exactly should you acquire the resources to obtain upgrades for your crew and for the Normandy then?  Since those upgrades ARE important, you should have to do something to earn them, not have them given to you on a silver platter.

I like the idea of having to earn my stuff.

#47
Seraph666

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RiouHotaru wrote...

I guess the fanbase is truly unpleasable.  People complained about surveying planets and scouting in the Mako for resources, now you can do it without leaving the ship, and people STILL complain.  What I'm wondering then, is how exactly should you acquire the resources to obtain upgrades for your crew and for the Normandy then?  Since those upgrades ARE important, you should have to do something to earn them, not have them given to you on a silver platter.

I like the idea of having to earn my stuff.


Hmm, doesn't this game just hand it over on a silver platter ? all you need to do is grab it, there's nothing to stop you.