100 réponses à ce sujet

[manwiththemachinegun]

Dear Bioware,

First of all, ME2 is awesome, and definately one of my favorite games to come out in a while, along with the first game. Just beat it late today. Here's the problem though.

Look, I am a reasonable guy. This game is already 12 gig of greatness, and the romance options themselves in ME2 are fine. Tali, Jack, Miranda, Thane, Garrus, Jacob, all are excellent characters and add something unique.

However, it certainly seems like the previous romance characters are being thrown under a bus. Okay, I get it, they're ticked off you're working for Cerberus. But an email? That's it? Really?
 
I would be less annoyed with how the Ashley/Kaidan reunion on Horzion turned out if we actually got a subquest to fix things. There are dozens of quests in ME2, why can't fixing up things with your old flame be one of them? The fact that you never actually get an opportunity to explain things doesn't help. Now before it gets said, yes, in real relationships people are not automotons and **** happens that pushes people apart. However, I simply don't buy the fact that two people who lived and died together like Ashley or Kaidan, who you sacrificed a LIFE to save wouldn't give you the benefit of the doubt. It seems like these characters are being abandoned for the sake of pandering to newcomers to the series who just want to get a nice piece of A.

You wanted people's reaction to 'staying true' to ME1 compared ME2 romances, well, here it is. My Shep examined the options and still chose Ash because he's a loyal sort of guy.

I *did* appretiate my Shep giving a longing glance to Ash's photo before the final mission, but it all honestly it felt half assed, and I thought you should know.
 
Maybe when Mass Effect 3 comes out, and the need for an open ended story comes to a close, there were be a proper resolution to this story line beyond a sucky, 16bit ending: "You have romanced Ashley! A winner is you!"

In total we have 9 romance options throughout the series. I have faith in Bioware for delivering excellent games. All I ask is that each character get *equal* screeen time when that resolution does come. And hopefully more for them to do as well.

Thanks for listening, and making great games,

[Tamyn]

See, I'm afraid BioWare will screw over the people who have a romance in ME 2, since any of those characters can die in the final mission. You're sure to see your ME 1 LI in ME 3 but with the ME 2 romances there's no guarantee.

[ShadowAldrius]

Tamyn wrote...

See, I'm afraid BioWare will screw over the people who have a romance in ME 2, since any of those characters can die in the final mission. You're sure to see your ME 1 LI in ME 3 but with the ME 2 romances there's no guarantee.

Eh? Yeah there is. Look at Wrex. He's pretty consequential and he can die.

[manwiththemachinegun]

As long as you save them, I don't see a problem. The issue I was talking about was more to do with how the interaction with Ash and Kaidan was designed, and having a proper ending to sticking with them, just like Liara.



If they get short changed in this game, and get some proper screen time in Mass Effect 3, that's fine. But there should be some reward according to Bioware's design philosophy of sticking with the same person for all three games. Just like whether or not you save the Rachni will have consequences.



I have faith, but a little reassurance would be nice.

[FairSpiffy]

I know, I was angry too at the start with, but I've had a while to think about it and I've come to the conclusion that like real life, it can't be True Love Forever and Ever. Kaidan/Ash clearly have their own missions and priorities going on with the Alliance, so that explains why they may not be able to come along with Shep, even if Shep wanted them to come.



And then I got to thinking, they've had a huge shock. The person they're in love with has miraculously come back alive, by Cerberus (in the case of the Sole Survivor the very group that tried to kill her before, the group that killed Kahoku), and is now working with them. It's a lot to take in, and they won't be like, "Oh, ok." It's simply not human behavior.



What they need is time to process what's going on and Shepard's role in this, even if this is the real Shepard at all. I see it as taking a time out to get things straight.



It also has something to do with Bioware needing the ME1 LIs to be alive for the 3rd game, which is understandable. And as for the ME2 romances showing back up, it's pretty much impossible to romance a character without doing their loyalty quests, at least from what I've seen from the Male LIs, don't know about the female ones.



Phew, ok, sorry, had to get that off my chest. It really bothered me for the first day or so, I'm not used to seeing Kaidan get that angry.

[serjwolf]

will my romance with liara be screwed over if i "do the dance" with Kelly chambers? we dont actually have sex

[manwiththemachinegun]

Sure, it's understandable. And it serves the function of keeping them alive until game 3. I guess I'm just saying, the *payoff* had better be there. Real realationships go through ups and downs too. Sticking with your ME1 romance should be just as viable as the new ones is all I'm saying. *Renagade Shep on* Like I said, this complaint could easily be addressed with just an extra quest. I just thought the, "let's make up but I'm still mad" email was loving retarded. They got the voice actors back right? Why not do that in a transmition?

[Wintermist]

But in Liara's case, she doesn't even ask about it. There's just a simple "Oh, you're back" and then it's quickly forgotten so as to the point that it could just as well never have happened. Imagine your own conversation if you had been Shepard, and you got back to your romance after 2 years. There would be lots to talk about. There would be emotion involved.

EDIT: Ok, there's some more dialogue to it, regarding how Shepard got to Cerberus, but not the dialogue I'm talking about.

Modifié par Wintermist, 29 janvier 2010 - 02:54 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

@manwiththemachinegun:



Excellent post. I agree.

[Precursor2552]

What bugs me is less that we didn't get to resolve anything, but the fact that they consider it cheating. The way I acted towards Williams was kinda worthy of a break up IMO(some Renegade stuff and never calling her after coming back...) the email and what she said was kind the end of the relationship. So if she ended it why can't Sheppard start dating Miranda? Its not cheating, Ash and Shep aren't dating anymore.

[manwiththemachinegun]

Right, I would have considered that conversation a break up if you don't do EVERYTHING in your power to try to salvage it. It's like Bioware WANTED you on some wierd level to hate your old love interest so you wouldn't miss out on the sexy time with the new romance options. I liked the bit with Joker going, "I'm glad you're not mad at Ash, because I was not looking forward to seeing you if that went bad."



It's still a crappy bit of writing simply because there was no resolution. There was no big break up, and there was no reconciliation. That works in film just fine, but here it feels like the player is being punished rather than rewarded.



If Kaidan, Ash or Liara were given BETTER REASONS not to go with Shepard, or he just said, "I don't want you on this mission because we might not make it back," I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. Wrex had a great one, so did Liara, getting revenge on the Shadow Broker. With Kaidan and Ash though, it just comes off as them acting like jerks. Again, a make up message instead of an email would have done wonders here.

[FairSpiffy]

When I read the message it wasn't... it wasn't really an apology for their reasons, but an apology for being insensitive. I got from it that Kaidan at least was still really really upset that Shep was working with Cerberus still. It also may have a little bit to do with that they don't want to get close to Shep again just to lose him on this suicide mission.



I got that feeling a little bit too though. My first playthrough I wasn't planning on cheating on Kaidan, and then we had that conversation and... well.... she said it was history after that. It does seem they are tempting us to cheat, though.

[Aethelwulf1066]

ShadowAldrius wrote...

Tamyn wrote...

See, I'm afraid BioWare will screw over the people who have a romance in ME 2, since any of those characters can die in the final mission. You're sure to see your ME 1 LI in ME 3 but with the ME 2 romances there's no guarantee.

Eh? Yeah there is. Look at Wrex. He's pretty consequential and he can die.

I thnk he meant as a team mate. Not a cameo. Wrex can die, but did he come back as a recruitable character? That's what quite a few people are worried about. Namely people like me who didn't like the ME1 romance options, but found the ME2 romances to be much better. Small appearances will be made at the least. But we're worried about them not showing up as squad mates, where further romantic interaction would take place.

[darkknigh03]

ok after completing the mission i had the option to leave miranda and be with thali? since both survived that choice should have some sort of consequence on the third one. both fighting over me or something. but as regard to the first one . I choose my second play through and that one was rushed so they were no romantic events . I wonder if by some reason you die at the end of the suicide mission. If you did have a romance who would you play as?

[Aethelwulf1066]

Also, i've heard people say you can respond to the message you get from Ashley/Kaiden. How and when do you get a chance to do that. On my second play through and i'm gunning for Tali again, but this time I imported the ME1 save where I romanced Ashley (Big mistake.). Would rather tell her it's over than have a big fight in ME3 because she thinks I cheated on her.

[mrniceguy247]

got an isssue withe the romances can one of u tell me how to get jack loyal agn after her cat fight with miranda

[luet1991]

I agree, you let someone die to save the other. THEN you fought off countless geth and Saren when you went go save them.

You saved humanity, saved the citadel, maybe even saved the council and you sure as hell secured Humanity's position in the universe.

But hey, you're wearing Orange now, so Kaiden and Ashley hate your guts. You'd think they would go WTF BBQ YOUR ALIVE? I SAW YOU DIE! YOU GOT SPACED! YOU FELL TO A PLANET! HOW THE HELL ARE YOU ALIVE?



Instead they insult you and leave after you save them from the collectors. ****in' ingrates.

[Tamyn]

Aethelwulf1066 wrote...

ShadowAldrius wrote...

Tamyn wrote...

See, I'm afraid BioWare will screw over the people who have a romance in ME 2, since any of those characters can die in the final mission. You're sure to see your ME 1 LI in ME 3 but with the ME 2 romances there's no guarantee.

Eh? Yeah there is. Look at Wrex. He's pretty consequential and he can die.

I thnk he meant as a team mate. Not a cameo. Wrex can die, but did he come back as a recruitable character? That's what quite a few people are worried about. Namely people like me who didn't like the ME1 romance options, but found the ME2 romances to be much better. Small appearances will be made at the least. But we're worried about them not showing up as squad mates, where further romantic interaction would take place.

Yes. That's more what I meant, but I wasn't very clear. Plus there are six romances in ME 2 (compared to three in ME 1), which would be a lot more work to add them as squad mates in ME 3 without leaving out new characters that I'm sure BioWare would want to include.

If all the romances (minus the sacrificed) were squad mates in ME 3 that's already eight squad members. But since any or all of the ones from ME 2 could die, how many of them are likely to be on the squad in ME 3?

Modifié par Tamyn, 29 janvier 2010 - 03:27 .

[luet1991]

mrniceguy247 wrote...

got an isssue withe the romances can one of u tell me how to get jack loyal agn after her cat fight with miranda

Talk to her, alot.

[Aethelwulf1066]

Perhaps making it possible to only recruit your ME2 love interest? The ones you didn't choose are relegated to minor roles maybe. I don't know. But if we're able to pick up ME1 romances, why not ME2 romances if they survived?

[manwiththemachinegun]

FairSpiffy wrote...

When I read the message it wasn't... it wasn't really an apology for their reasons, but an apology for being insensitive. I got from it that Kaidan at least was still really really upset that Shep was working with Cerberus still. It also may have a little bit to do with that they don't want to get close to Shep again just to lose him on this suicide mission.

I got that feeling a little bit too though. My first playthrough I wasn't planning on cheating on Kaidan, and then we had that conversation and... well.... she said it was history after that. It does seem they are tempting us to cheat, though.

That's what's galling the most. Make ME1 characters act like rear ends in top hats simply to hype Subject Zero or Garrus as romance options. Is it really too much to expect these comrades I fought with to be as likeable as they were in the first game? It sounds like Bioware is moving to make these characters less relevant because they expect the majority of people just want to cast them aside and get jiggy with the hip new characters. That came across in several developer interviews as well. Something to the effect of, "We're interested to see if people stick with ME1 romances." Well, it's kind of hard for most people to do that devs when you give the player no chance of fixing things!

Just, have a heart Bioware okay? Make the reward for this choice worth the stuff you have to go through to get it.

Modifié par manwiththemachinegun, 29 janvier 2010 - 03:35 .

[EJon]

Aethelwulf1066 wrote...

Perhaps making it possible to only recruit your ME2 love interest? The ones you didn't choose are relegated to minor roles maybe. I don't know. But if we're able to pick up ME1 romances, why not ME2 romances if they survived?

If your referring to ME3, then yes you will be able to bring in your ME2 romances if you dumped your ME1 romance. The same way they worked the system with Wrex is the same way they'll do it with the LI's in ME3. Don't worry about it. 

[Aethelwulf1066]

EJon wrote...

Aethelwulf1066 wrote...

Perhaps making it possible to only recruit your ME2 love interest? The ones you didn't choose are relegated to minor roles maybe. I don't know. But if we're able to pick up ME1 romances, why not ME2 romances if they survived?

If your referring to ME3, then yes you will be able to bring in your ME2 romances if you dumped your ME1 romance. The same way they worked the system with Wrex is the same way they'll do it with the LI's in ME3. Don't worry about it. 

Slightly confused. Do you mean that i'll be able to bring my former romances as recruitable squadmates, or that they'll be making minor appearances like Wrex as non-recruitable.

Perhaps i'm reading this wrong.

[Jersey75639]

 No one on here can really say with any certainty what is going to happen regarding anything at all in ME3, ME2 just came out.  I'm slightly worried about how they'll handle the ME2 LI's with this talk about 'staying faithful' to ME1 LI's or not and etc, but all I can really do is have faith that Bioware won't throw ME2 characters under the bus after working pretty hard on them.  I don't think all the characters will come back in ME3, like Thane(since he's dieing soon), but I can't see how they'd justify not bringing back most of the ME2 LI's in a major way, hopefully recruitable or already-in-your-party, assuming they stayed alive to the end of your game.

ME3 seems like to live up to the expectations it's going to have it will have to be epic, so there's really only two possible outcomes, it lives up or it falls flat.  I'm hoping it'll be a great game, there's so many things that I could be worried about with it but the only real positive option is to hope Bioware can make it good.  If anyone can do what ME3 is going to have to do not to disappoint people though, Bioware can.

[darkknigh03]

Jersey75639 wrote...

 No one on here can really say with any certainty what is going to happen regarding anything at all in ME3, ME2 just came out.  I'm slightly worried about how they'll handle the ME2 LI's with this talk about 'staying faithful' to ME1 LI's or not and etc, but all I can really do is have faith that Bioware won't throw ME2 characters under the bus after working pretty hard on them.  I don't think all the characters will come back in ME3, like Thane(since he's dieing soon), but I can't see how they'd justify not bringing back most of the ME2 LI's in a major way, hopefully recruitable or already-in-your-party, assuming they stayed alive to the end of your game.

ME3 seems like to live up to the expectations it's going to have it will have to be epic, so there's really only two possible outcomes, it lives up or it falls flat.  I'm hoping it'll be a great game, there's so many things that I could be worried about with it but the only real positive option is to hope Bioware can make it good.  If anyone can do what ME3 is going to have to do not to disappoint people though, Bioware can.

I agree but for example on some characters they said that they would leave the team or have other things to do if they survived. thane with his son, grunt being part of the urdnot's, and samara being a justicar. but the rest will stay with shepard, if they are loyal. the only question left is which are alive? I am pretty sure that any li's that survive will remain with shepard no matter what.