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[Duvel_Duvel]

Metopholus wrote...

I admit that i fell into Bioware's emotional trap. im usually good at predicting how a story will go. this one caught me off balance. i remember Bioware saying they were curious how many people would stay loyal to their ME1 Li. so instead of a happy reunion with Ash/Kaidan i got blew off. i felt most likely exactly what they wanted me to. a combination of disappointment and being pissed.

but after i thought about it for a while (and read the followup email) i got what they were going for. they could have just wrote your ME1 Li into ME2 in a generic way. a hug and kiss and then sent off to do the suicide mission. rather than that they insert conflict between Shepard and Ash/Kaidan. they basically are tempting you to try one of the other crew members. i see where this thing might be going. you have good times in ME1 and now your going through some bad ones. the said they kept them out of your squad in ME2 to keep them alive for ME3. so the scene on Horizon isn't the end. it's just a test. there will be resolution in ME3. i have to give Bioware credit here for doing something i truly didn't expect. 

however the scene with Liara was a bit...off to me. i probed her about why she was really angry about the Shadow Broker. then she poured her heart out about how she "couldn't let you go". but...she wasn't my Li in Me1. so why did she say that? was it a glitch or something? that sounded like it would have been reserved for those who had her as their Li.   

Reading from what Liara did for Shepard she really cared deeply for him yes, but caring for someone doesn't always have to be sexual right?

So no it didn't felt odd to me, more heart-warming
With such friends Shepard can last many many deaths

Modifié par Duvel_Duvel, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:25 .

[Lyrandori]

Good points Metopholus

[Driveninhifi]

Yeah, it feels very false to not have an option to say "So where do we stand?" or to offer to help her after your mission is done. Perhaps DLC? I'd think the shadow broker would have to be wrapped up before the reapers invade.

I also don't buy her falling in love with the "friend" she mentions so soon after Shepard's death. If it's platonic, that makes much more sense. A plot where the friend gets captured because of her quest for Shepard would be very interesting - not only would she have giving Shepard to Cerberus on her conscience (and she admits she did it because she wanted him/her back - she thinks it's selfish), she'd also have the friend's life there too, which would go a long way towards explaining her current behavior.



Still, the most natural conversation path is one about the relationship and I don't see where that option is. Feels like a weird oversight - like it should be in there somewhere and I'm missing it. I'd think that the first thing Shepard would say in the "love" case was "I missed you" on meeting her, but I guess you don't have that option.

[Adon 9]

I have to admit it DOES seem rather clumsily handled to me. Or rather, done in a way that leaves me feeling annoyed at BioWare more than at the characters.



It really does feel like emotional manipulation on their part... in order to make the new romance options attractive, they decided to go the route of making the previous one unappealing. Kaidan/Ash being uncharacteristically unwilling to trust Shepard's motives, or to accept that Shep is working with Cerberus purely because no other options have presented themselves, and it's an uneasy association at best. With Liara, in the pursuit of darker and edgier, on the other hand, she seems to have become hardened and lost much of her innocence -- an innocence which no doubt was a big part of her charm to her fans. Maybe it's me, but it seems to be deliberate, a conscious decision to reduce their appeal. It becomes easier to 'cheat' when Ash/Kaiden are unwilling to show good faith at a moment where Shepard deep down really needs it, or where Liara has changed to the point where she barely seems to be the same person.



They're saying that it will be revisited in ME3. If that is so, the payoff had BETTER be scintilating, because I suspect there are a good number of people unhappy with where this aspect of the story has gone, and pissing off your customers is not really a strong model for keeping them.

[BECC4]

Does anyone actually have a link to the dev post where they said we'd b rewarded for sticking with our ME1 LI? I keep hearing it but haven't seen it myself.

[TuringPoint]

I don't see it as them trying to make the previous LI's less interesting, at all. I also think that writing a story, even a video game story, around emotional gratification tends to turn out a rather watered-down, needlessly sentimental product. Not to accuse you of any character flaws for feeling otherwise, certainly, that's just how it feels to me.



So personally, I have no trouble accepting that this is just what happens to my Shepard. What's gonna happen now? I can't wait to find out.



Also, just to argue I never saw Liara as all that innocent. Inexperienced, perhaps, but she always enjoyed fighting. She never complained about it. Even now, she hasn't become sadistic so much as focused. Again, I'm fine with accepting this.

[OldMan91]

And excluding Liara's negligible role for my Paragon Shepard (mostly Paragon, that is, with a very slight touch of Renegade, barely, but... just a bit, she has the Butcher of Torfan profile after all, and I made her use the sudden Renegade click options during two scenes so far). The only other "candidate" that would fit my current Shepard would be... Kelly, and that's a big problem, for me that means bad decisions from BioWare. Simply put and briefly said, and as much as I hate saying it, I think that ME2 brings virtually no room for any "love", it's indeed quite darker than the original, although like Joker rightly reminds us, it may have been the "good ol' times" but there weren't always hugs and flowers, there were casualties and destruction too.

Did you get this part of the dialogue with Liara?

[AtreiyaN7]

Adon 9 wrote...

I have to admit it DOES seem rather clumsily handled to me. Or rather, done in a way that leaves me feeling annoyed at BioWare more than at the characters.

It really does feel like emotional manipulation on their part... in order to make the new romance options attractive, they decided to go the route of making the previous one unappealing. Kaidan/Ash being uncharacteristically unwilling to trust Shepard's motives, or to accept that Shep is working with Cerberus purely because no other options have presented themselves, and it's an uneasy association at best. With Liara, in the pursuit of darker and edgier, on the other hand, she seems to have become hardened and lost much of her innocence -- an innocence which no doubt was a big part of her charm to her fans. Maybe it's me, but it seems to be deliberate, a conscious decision to reduce their appeal. It becomes easier to 'cheat' when Ash/Kaiden are unwilling to show good faith at a moment where Shepard deep down really needs it, or where Liara has changed to the point where she barely seems to be the same person.

They're saying that it will be revisited in ME3. If that is so, the payoff had BETTER be scintilating, because I suspect there are a good number of people unhappy with where this aspect of the story has gone, and pissing off your customers is not really a strong model for keeping them.

I don't think it's being uncharacteristically unwilling. As Kaidan points out, he thought you were dead, but now you show up working for Cerberus. Cerberus was your greatest enemy in ME1 - don't forget that Kaidan saw the atrocities. How can he know that you AREN'T under their influence? Cerberus rebuilt Shepard, and there's a lot of confusion, anger and emotional stuff going on I think. Based on the e-mail, clearly it took Kaidan a while to get over Shepard and Kaidan regrets what he said. I don't really regret cheating on him with Thane though, as I found Thane to be a pretty deep character. I'll explore the other romance options as well and do one where I stay faithful to Kaidan. It will be interesting to see what happens in ME3.

[JamieCOTC]

The comic, Mass Effect:Redemption deals w/ this very story arc. It is both a prequel, find out how Liara changed, and what happens to her after your encounter. Dark Horse and BioWare are developing this together, so they have thought it out.  Not sure if the comic is going to presuppose Liara is a LI or not.  Would be coool if it did, but I doubt it.

Edit: It's only a 4 part series, so if you've missed the first issue, you can get it in trade paperback later. 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 31 janvier 2010 - 12:29 .

[Driveninhifi]

Yeah, the first one comes with the collector's edition. Not sure what I think of the comic yet. In the preview of #2 you see Liara kill someone groping her, which I thought really didn't fit her character. Breaking a few bones, sure, but killing someone? Doesn't fit, for me.



I really hope they don't have her fall in love with the drell as I don't think it makes sense for her to fall in love with someone else right after Shepard's death. Although there's nothing in the first comic or the preview of the second to indicate that he's anything other than platonic. They don't even know each other very well.



Hopefully it fills the loose ends up with what happened to her, as I don't think they are covered very well in game. Even the big "anger" conversation you can have doesn't really do it for me - though having it be mainly about her guilt is a good way to go. I do think there really needed to be an option for Shepard to tell her he/she still loves her after that big conversation though.