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But... NO one wants Oghren!


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#226
Feraele

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dark-lauron wrote...

I love Oghren. Seriously, I never tire of him. I must think about the current party members (Awakening)
We know there are 5 new NPCs, correct?
3 we already possibly know : 1 human rogue, 1 human mage, 1 elf wizard. I heard also of one qunari. If so, then my guess is that the fifth is human, and for exclusion and the typical formula 1 elf - 1 dwarf, Oghren would be a plausible choice. BUT! I must consider also this : why would BioWare keep us waiting for the old favorite if they put something incredibly similar to Oghren in the trailer? Note that that char, cannot be ANY other dwarf, because, Oghren has unique hair, beard and color. Also, it appears he is wielding the legion of the dead armor, which is one old set, right? While the PC caries Ageless if I am not wrong. 
Edit : some spoilers removed. Sorry, didn't notice it was in the no spoiler forum! :o



I think for one...that the redheaded dwarf that everyone sees..seems to be there to throw people off.  Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. 

For another, being that WE don't get to choose OUR personal favorite to come back,   WHY would Bioware state that "an old favorite" was returning?   Again I ask the question,  whose favorite?  Your favorite ..my favorite?

How would Bioware know that? :P   I think...personally its NONE OF THE ABOVE.  

I think....that its going to be rather a surprise when we do get to play Awakening. :)

For all we know it could be Bann Teagan hehehe :D

#227
Wishpig

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Lakmoots wrote...

Wow...

This thread grew legs! Very interesting reading the comments.

I think there are alot more Oghren fans than I thought... and I think even they are agreeing he is a bit of a cliche.

I wonder if they win, or I win... or we all lose!

I still don't like him... Image IPB 

Although, I guess it was not such an unpopular choice.


You don't see someone with the testicular fortititude to admit their wrong very often (on forums), so i appluad u, and I buy you a cyber beer. :D

Feraele wrote...

dark-lauron wrote...

I love Oghren. Seriously, I never tire of him. I must think about the current party members (Awakening)
We know there are 5 new NPCs, correct?
3
we already possibly know : 1 human rogue, 1 human mage, 1 elf wizard. I
heard also of one qunari. If so, then my guess is that the fifth is
human, and for exclusion and the typical formula 1 elf - 1 dwarf,
Oghren would be a plausible choice. BUT! I must consider also this :
why would BioWare keep us waiting for the old favorite if they put
something incredibly similar to Oghren in the trailer? Note that that
char, cannot be ANY other dwarf, because, Oghren has unique hair, beard
and color. Also, it appears he is wielding the legion of the dead
armor, which is one old set, right? While the PC caries Ageless if I am
not wrong. 
Edit : some spoilers removed. Sorry, didn't notice it was in the no spoiler forum! ../../../images/forum/emoticons/surprised.png



I think
for one...that the redheaded dwarf that everyone sees..seems to be
there to throw people off.  Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. 

For
another, being that WE don't get to choose OUR personal favorite to
come back,   WHY would Bioware state that "an old favorite" was
returning?   Again I ask the question,  whose favorite?  Your favorite
..my favorite?

How would Bioware know that? :P   I think...personally its NONE OF THE ABOVE.  

I think....that its going to be rather a surprise when we do get to play Awakening. :)

For all we know it could be Bann Teagan hehehe :D


1. It's Oghren, in the newest trailer you get a nice close up of him. It IS Oghren, there is no doubt now. Now, he may be a temp companion... so I guess he MAY be there to throw people off.

2.But think about how STUPID that would be. Bioware's smart enough to know whoever they choose is gonna generate major flames from people who aren't getting their favorite. Why stoke the fire and ****** people off merely to ****** people off? THEN if it turns out to NOT be Oghren, Oghren fans will be pissed, which this thread has shown theres plenty off. So I don't think bioware is purpsoefully pissing off Morrigan and Alistair fans, and then be all like, "sorry Oghren fans, we were just kidding! He was just there to throw Morrigan lovers off!" And then ****** off Oghren fans.

Oghren may not be the returning char, but he isn't in the trailers to throw us off purposfully.

3. Yes, because bioware will go through the trouble of paying and incorporating more characters from Origins in only to let you pick one... no, only ONE is coming back.

4. Romancible characters are just to damn hard to bring back and characters that could easily die are just not worth the tons of cash and effort. Hell, ME2 didn't even DARE try to take that on...

Modifié par Wishpig, 30 janvier 2010 - 02:44 .


#228
the666reaper

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why orghen any way? he has nothing to do with story line. the return character should be alister or morrigan. because they are fit with the story line. Some people said alister should not be back because he now a king. but if u ready The Calling, Maric now a king but he still fight with the grey warden. Oghen suck ball , he have no personality, i like sten better. Oh well , guess i have to kill him in awakenning , so that bastards wont be in my party.

#229
Liquidcz

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Wishpig wrote...
1. It's Oghren, in the newest trailer you get a nice close up of him. It IS Oghren, there is no doubt now. Now, he may be a temp companion... so I guess he MAY be there to throw people off.

2.But think about how STUPID that would be. Bioware's smart enough to know whoever they choose is gonna generate major flames from people who aren't getting their favorite. Why stoke the fire and ****** people off merely to ****** people off? THEN if it turns out to NOT be Oghren, Oghren fans will be pissed, which this thread has shown theres plenty off. So I don't think bioware is purpsoefully pissing off Morrigan and Alistair fans, and then be all like, "sorry Oghren fans, we were just kidding! He was just there to throw Morrigan lovers off!" And then ****** off Oghren fans.

Oghren may not be the returning char, but he isn't in the trailers to throw us off purposfully.

3. Yes, because bioware will go through the trouble of paying and incorporating more characters from Origins in only to let you pick one... no, only ONE is coming back.

4. Romancible characters are just to damn hard to bring back and characters that could easily die are just not worth the tons of cash and effort. Hell, ME2 didn't even DARE try to take that on...

Or maybe Oghren was just selected as the returning character for the specific playthrough the trailer was created from. That would be closest to the whole "an old favorite returning" (i.e. you could actually choose who returns), but it's also probably too good to be true. But hope dies last (or, actually, with an official announcement) :))

#230
Matheau

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There are five more companions, so it isn't like you have to use Oghren. They couldn't exactly pick anyone's favorite character because not everyone has the same favorite. Oghren also logically fits to return no matter what you do in the story. They couldn't use a killable character because you would automatically lose a companion if you imported your character from Origins, which eliminates a good chunk of characters. Alistair and Morgain wouldn't logically help a new Warden they never met either (which you have to remember is a logical possibility for the main character of Awakenings).

I don't think they will code every Origins character and let you choose the returning one. If all the characters were programmed in, people would complain about only getting one.

Modifié par Matheau, 30 janvier 2010 - 03:45 .


#231
Delanish

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Flawed characters and gags characters are great in a game...



Let's go back to Neverwinter Nights 1 for example and look at that little kobolt bard named Deekin with his Doom song. i love that guy



DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOM!!

doom doom doom!



And they charges into certain death!

#232
xgiovedi

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I do want Oghren in Awakenings! :D

He was my favorite party member. I feel like he is the only one who I could honestly trust.

#233
Wishpig

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Liquidcz wrote...
Or maybe Oghren was just selected as the returning character for the specific playthrough the trailer was created from. That would be closest to the whole "an old favorite returning" (i.e. you could actually choose who returns), but it's also probably too good to be true. But hope dies last (or, actually, with an official announcement) :))


Hate to tell ya boss, but thats kinda ridiclous... you guys are looking way way way way to deep into "an old favorite returning." Oghren was a popular character (not the MOST popular), but obviously he was a favorite to quite a few people. That is all they mean...

Think Garrus and Tali returning to ME2. Personally  I couldn't care less about either, my fav was Wrex, but I always acknowledged they are old favorites in a sense. This is the same damn thing.

You really think their gonna incorporate a few characters from Origins and ONLY let u pick one? How in the world does that make sense? It's just very very wishfull thinking by people whose fav isn't coming back (as a companion).

ONE character is coming back, right now Oghren's the best bet although he is nothing more then a safe bet at the moment.

People gotta look at this as more of a blessing...

A. If you like Oghren you win!
B. If you don't like Oghren, bioware now has a chance to really flesh him out and change that and give him purpose.
C. Bioware has said they like the new characters even more then the ones from Origins, so this gives you a chance to make new favs!
D. If your getting THIS upset over your fav char not returning, sit back and realise thats because bioware made such an excelent game your actually getting worked up over this, and because of that HAVE SOME FAITH!

xgiovedi wrote...

I do want Oghren in Awakenings! :D
He was my favorite party member. I feel like he is the only one who I could honestly trust.


Ya, I'm the same way.

A few people have said it feels like he doesn't belong, that he just came along to come along... and has no reason for helping you out. Doesn't that say allot of good about his character? Alistair and Morrigan have to help you. Sten, Dog, and the others owe you, and Leliana follows you because the Maker wishes it.

Oghren just goes because it's right. Thats a guy I want by my side.

Modifié par Wishpig, 30 janvier 2010 - 04:55 .


#234
Liquidcz

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Wishpig wrote...

You really think their gonna incorporate a few characters from Origins and ONLY let u pick one? How in the world does that make sense? It's just very very wishfull thinking by people whose fav isn't coming back (as a companion).


It (partially) makes sense in the way that Alistair, Leliana or Zevran can follow you to "rebuild the Wardens" after the game ends. This however does not apply for other characters like Wynne. I'm curious nonetheless how they will deal with this, if the characters will act at least as npcs, or they vanish completely, etc. But you are right that having them as fulltime party members is just wishful thinking and as I said, it's simply too good to be true.

Still, Oghren is one of the better picks and I certainly won't be disappointed if it's him who returns.

#235
Wishpig

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Liquidcz wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

You really think their gonna incorporate a few characters from Origins and ONLY let u pick one? How in the world does that make sense? It's just very very wishfull thinking by people whose fav isn't coming back (as a companion).


It (partially) makes sense in the way that Alistair, Leliana or Zevran can follow you to "rebuild the Wardens" after the game ends. This however does not apply for other characters like Wynne. I'm curious nonetheless how they will deal with this, if the characters will act at least as npcs, or they vanish completely, etc. But you are right that having them as fulltime party members is just wishful thinking and as I said, it's simply too good to be true.

Still, Oghren is one of the better picks and I certainly won't be disappointed if it's him who returns.


With every bioware sequal or expansion people are at first upset their favorites aren't returning, BUT time and time agian, the new cast ALWAYS ends up more intresting and deeper and simply better overall.

BG2, NwN expansions, ME2, each ones' new cast was overall better. So i understand why many are upset now, but they should put their fears to rest as bioware has proven they are masters of making top-notch companions.

As far as Alistair, Leliana, or Zevran. One of those three CAN'T and the other two... damn I can't go into spoilers... but lets just say two outta my three playthroughs say otherwise.

#236
Ashbery

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I think Oghren is a good choice.Morrigan is too important for an expansion.

#237
SinYang

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With every bioware sequal or expansion people are at first upset their favorites aren't returning, BUT time and time agian, the new cast ALWAYS ends up more intresting and deeper and simply better overall.

Available time seems at odds with that view, please tell me how five years of tweaking/polish can be done in far less and even improve the characters? of course devs will say otherwise, its called "Hype". There are even less writers working on the awakening expansion.. no mary (Sten) 

Imagine BG1 to BG2 with just Tiax. BG2 to TOB with just Korgan.

Modifié par SinYang, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:12 .


#238
Behindyounow

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Whilst Oghren wasn't my favourite I found him better than Alistair, Morrigan, and Zevran. Character wise.

#239
Wishpig

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SinYang wrote...

With every bioware sequal or expansion people are at first upset their favorites aren't returning, BUT time and time agian, the new cast ALWAYS ends up more intresting and deeper and simply better overall.

Available time seems at odds with that view, please tell me how five years of tweaking/polish can be done in far less and even improve the characters? of course devs will say otherwise, its called "Hype". There are even less writers working on the awakening expansion.. no mary (Sten) 

Imagine BG1 to BG2 with just Tiax. BG2 to TOB with just Korgan.


I don't know what you mean by devs calling it "hype"... but the rest are some good points. I never played BG1, only BG2 + TOB (and every bioware game after.) But I did think about how they transfered BG2 characters over to TOB, but I didn't think that applied because...

A. The choices you made character wise in BG2 to TOB didn't transfer over so well, besides romances which were HIGHLY bugged as a result and they even were much more shallow then ME's and DA:O's romances.

B. Characters I didn't meet or got rid of in BG2 acted like they new me my whole life. Other characters whose personalities changed due to choices did not carry over changes. It was very flawed and proved my point.

C. The KIND of new companion introduced was highly well recieved and extremely well done.

They did bring over all the characters to ToB and the result shows you why it's good they never did that agian.


The crazy amount of programming and difficulties faced with brining back characters who each could have met multiple VERY diffrent fates in DA:O strikes me as far more difficult a task then creating new and more intresting companions. The writers know the world, are comfty with the lore, and can now weave it far more easily then before.

Personally I beleave they should have brought over more then one character from DA:O. Perhaps two or three, but they haven't let me down yet with their awesome personalities, so I trust 'um.

Modifié par Wishpig, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:33 .


#240
Cursek

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Oghren is also easy to put in because he's canonically the same, no matter how the PC plays, Oghren always joins his party. Not everyone kept Morrigan, and Alistair's plot varies greatly depending on the PC's choices.



That doesn't go without saying that you'll still see a few of them in Awakening, the first trailer shows Ali running about, I just doubt he'll be playable.

#241
SinYang

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The models are there, all you need is voicing/dialogues. Warden's keep DLC managed to include some new cutscenes, unless they were again cut content from Origins? yeah makes you wonder at that.

Bioware expansions were like BG2 throne until Nwn came out, what a disappointment that was. Most loved that game for the multiplayer certainly not the OC(tho I didnt mind it!), DA does not have this extra option.

Infact Origins was sold on the fact that without multiplayer there would be improved storytelling, I thought this meant better characters, characters which matter. But if only Oghren is playable then rest are basically mules that have no meaning to your character, which clearly they dont if they just leave for sunset or second theory they die(cheap method to cut ties) cameos.

Im aware of the new vs old warden problems with old companions. Again this doesnt fly if Oghren appears multiple Origins in Origins shows that it can be done.

Modifié par SinYang, 30 janvier 2010 - 06:21 .


#242
Wishpig

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SinYang wrote...

The models are there, all you need is voicing/dialogues. Warden's keep DLC managed to include some new cutscenes, unless they were again cut content from Origins? yeah makes you wonder at that.

Bioware expansions were like BG2 throne until Nwn came out, what a disappointment that was. Most loved that game for the multiplayer certainly not the OC(tho I didnt mind it!), DA does not have this extra option.

Infact Origins was sold on the fact that without multiplayer there would be improved storytelling, I thought this meant better characters, characters which matter. But if only Oghren is playable then rest are basically mules, that have no meaning to your character.


Bioware expansions were like BG2 throne untill NwN came out... errr what other expansions? There was only one... and that was BG's expansion. Niether game bosts the depth, evolution, and paths your allies can take... not by a long shot.

You say time wise it makes more sense to just bring back...

Based on your response I think you fail to realise how damn hard it is to implant, write for, record, and program in characters. Creating the models is the easy part. I won't go into details for spoiler reasons, but the outcome for the three charaters that are undebaitibly more popular the Oggy, Morrigan, Alistair, and Leliana can meet a multitide of radically diffrent fates, and their stories in game can go in very very diffrent directions.

Infact, they each have more potential paths then any of the characters in the first ME1. They didn't even dare take on Wrex, Kaiden, or Ashley with YEARS to make ME2... that should give you an idea of the difficulty of the task.


SinYang wrote...
But if only Oghren is playable then rest are basically mules, that have no meaning to your character.


Going off this line, I think your just really upset ur fave isnt returning... because this is an extreme statement that just ain't true at all. Just because a character is not a companion in awakaning does not make them a mule.
*SPOILERS* Infact the epilouges of the characters in DA:O kinda explain what becomes of your companions... if they even survived. In many cases, having them return as companions would feel like a stretch JUST to have them return as companions.*Spoilers*

Modifié par Wishpig, 30 janvier 2010 - 06:26 .


#243
TheMadCat

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But if only Oghren is playable then rest are basically mules that have no meaning to your character.




So in your opinion Arl Eamon, Anora, Duncan, and a few others were nothing but mules who had no meaning for your character? An NPC can have just as large an impact on your character and their story as a companion is done well.




#244
SinYang

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Going off this line, I think your just really upset ur fave isnt returning... because this is an extreme statement that just ain't true at all. Just because a character is not a companion in awakaning does not make them a mule.




Yes and no, Origins has to me been the best singleplayer experience since BG1. Naturally I would have liked a true follow up akin to BG2 just like any good film epics. Including the old warden in the awakenings with only 1 companion has killed that method off completely. The game suddenly becomes Nwn without multiplayer, improvement? I think not.



The warden will *not* return for DA2, that much is clear. Even if he/she did that wouldnt include ex-companions you left in Awakenings. Import for plot choices? I didnt really care what secondary characters rules what, the characters(companions) made the game what it is.



Why not just a new warden? be done with it. Leave the door open for old warden later on, instead we get this half-job of an expansion. Its not released yet but already it is a big fail to me maybe because ive experienced previous bioware titles & kinda of know how this will be handled. Forced cannon/death cameos.



From a story persective, yes I believe if the Warden returns without his team, then yes he/she clearly didnt care for them. How Oghren returns would be a mystery if you arent a fan. Never traveled with him. Theres a cannon choice made right there^


#245
SinYang

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TheMadCat wrote...







But if only Oghren is playable then rest are basically mules that have no meaning to your character.

So in your opinion Arl Eamon, Anora, Duncan, and a few others were nothing but mules who had no meaning for your character? An NPC can have just as large an impact on your character and their story as a companion is done well.


Yes they were secondary filler characters. The whole point of Origins was to defeat the blight after all.  Did really care about the thieves in baldur's gate 2 who provided the ship to reach spellhold? or the council of six?.Drizzt? harpers? they gave that story meat but in no way could the story be as great without the party members you meet.

Companions are the game for me, invent "saving the world yet again plot" to provide a *point* for the adventure.

If you view all the posts on forum about Origins, half the players focus on these plot characters, the other half on the companions. Im by no means a fan of Alistair but he is more important to me than Cailan himself.

Modifié par SinYang, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:15 .


#246
PunkNouveau13

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I did like Oghren with his drunkenness, and his burping :-p (also cause he's voiced by Steve Blum, who I love) I would hope to see him in Awakenings.

#247
Wishpig

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SinYang wrote...

Why not just a new warden? be done with it. Leave the door open for old warden later on, instead we get this half-job of an expansion. Its not released yet but already it is a big fail to me maybe because ive experienced previous bioware titles & kinda of know how this will be handled. Forced cannon/death cameos.

From a story persective, yes I believe if the Warden returns without his team, then yes he/she clearly didnt care for them. How Oghren returns would be a mystery if you arent a fan. Never traveled with him. Theres a cannon choice made right there^


There is an option to play a literally new warden from Orsellia (or however you spell it). If your that concerned, just pick the new origin.

*SPOILERS*

Did you play the game all the way through? Because it doesn't sound like you did... there are a few diffrent outcomes for certain characters, but at the end of DA:O companions go off and do their own thing for the most part. Infact I wonder how the hell their even gonna bring some characters back for cameos without feeling like their forcing it...

Oghrans really the hardest character to kill or really really ****** off, he's forced on you, and he's consistently in a good position to return and be made into a warden.

Modifié par Wishpig, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:15 .


#248
Dzikv

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I like Oghren. And he is the only character who stuck around after the end really... I'm not even sure you can skip taking him...

#249
SinYang

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There is an option to play a literally new warden from Orsellia (or however you spell it). If your that concerned, just pick the new origin.

I certainly will if I buy the expanion, theres barely any info on gameplay elements atm.

It will be forced choices on companions. If we are going with "Your choices matter" line then yeah the only choice that held importance in this entire game was who traveled with my warden.

Reload is a wonderful feature, why carry over choices involving death when you can experience nearly every characters death thru reload? yeah ive seen different options, i choose what seemed the best outcomes for each of my characters. Magi even killed a certain companion who ambushes you^ would I care much if awakenings reaffirmed that fatal choice? not really. Besides id get to kill him again, it will always be a game at end of the day as it should be.

When too much realism ruins the fun factor of a game then its a bad game.

Despite not liking Oghren, I understand why your happy he is returning as it appears to be BUT many others would rather their selection was made valid. Its doubtful cameos will be made for all of them since it would involve hiring all the actor/actresses back in by which you may aswell include all the companions, Would you be happy if Oghren was made a codex?


Did you play the game all the way through?

My profile shows ive playedthrough once infact its bugged out, that rogue should be 24th lvl.. not 22 with story content  missing. Ive played 75% in with other characters. I never missed a thing cept perhaps only glancing at the 100s of codexes.

Modifié par SinYang, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:59 .


#250
Wishpig

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SinYang wrote...

It will be forced choices on companions. If we are going with "Your choices matter" line then yeah the only choice that held importance in this entire game was who traveled with my warden.

When too much realism ruins the fun factor of a game then its a bad game.

Despite not liking Oghren, I understand why your happy he is returning as it appears to be BUT many others would rather their selection was made valid. Its doubtful cameos will be made for all of them since it would involve hiring all the actor/actresses back in by which you may aswell include all the companions, Would you be happy if Oghren was made a codex?


It's FAR more then just hireing voice actors you don't seem to understand how damn hard it is to incorporate, program, and do justice to these characters. Think of it like this, Wrex as well as all the romance options in ME were not brought back as companions into ME2 because it would have been to much of a challenge to write them into the story and do them justice by incorporating the events that occured in the first game. Efforts that would have gone to comeplete and utter waste to many gamers because the characters might not have even survived! Wrex was the fan favorite of the game, he even won awards for crying out loud, but it amount of work to write him into the story was not worth it because he might not even be IN the story.

The characters in DA:O were much more complex then in ME. There was many fates they could have met, many ways they could have eveolved, and most could actually die quite easily. If it would have been hard to include the ME characters listed above as companions in ME2, then it would be damn near impossible to include the DA:O companions as companions once more.

You asked me if I would be happy of Oghren was made codex. All you need to do is look at how I reacted to Wrex's role in ME2. I was a HUGE Wrex fan, liking him even more the Oghren. Yet I wasn't upset at all he didn't return as a companion, infact I defended bioware's decsion and even looked foward to meeting his replacement, because I KNEW and ACCEPTED all of the above. He was in ME2, and his role made complete and utter sense. It worked.

So no I would not be upset if Oghren was codexed, although obviously I'm happy he's reappearing.

Simply put, the devs have a budget, they have a timescale, and they have a ton on their plate. They cannot do everything we want, it's impossible. People spend months upon months upon months working with the companions and getting them right. Despite what me or you think, sometimes as much as the fans want it, it's NOT worth it.

Rest assured, that the fates of companions will not be left hanging in their air, you might not be able to group with them, but the devs will do them justice.

Rest assured you will meet new characters who you will enjoy and route for... and complain when they don't return ;)

PS- You don't like Oghren but you said you NEVER travled with him. Many many people over looked him and wrote him off in their first or even second play through (understandible as he's hard to get, serves the same role as five other companions, and comes off as cliche' at first), but then gave him a chance and became a fan. Hell, more then a few on this thread alone have addmited it if you don't beleave me. I would bet the majority of haters never travled with him outside of Ozzimar.

You gotta keep an open mind my friend. I think thats your problem. Sorry for the long post, I hope you don't mind reading it all, as I am done! Pfhhh.

Modifié par Wishpig, 30 janvier 2010 - 09:05 .