230 réponses à ce sujet

[CraigxGibson]

OP said...





Let me end saying that is not a bad game with a big caveat: Don't expect it to be ME1 but better, it isnt. This is more like a high-quality BW story grafted onto a standard FPS. It is probably deeper than the typical FPS, but not much.

OMG FPS? What game did you get? Mine's in third person. You must have Extra Super Collector's Edition, or something. Either that or in money-grubbing DLC.



On the ammo mechanic front: In the original ME, I could literally shoot my assault rifle non-stop. I don't see how adding a mechanic to prevent endless spray-and-ray is a bad thing, especially if there is a believable ingame reason for it (BTW, your codex says, "what's up?")

[chenDawg]

Mezinger wrote...

I suppose if you say the core of Bioware is all about a good story than okay stated that broadly ME2 probably lives up to that standard... but if you think it takes more than a good story to make an RPG, and that ME2 is lacking some of those things... and that at its core Bioware is a rockstar RPG developer.... well you see where I'm going... 

There is a reason it is and has always been labeled an ACTION-RPG.

[Mezinger]

jewbagel wrote...

I understand, and maybe it's because I never really saw Mass Effect as an RPG. BUt people denouncing Bioware for changing their RPGing ways when they just came out with Dragon Age is puzzling. They can't do more than one genre?

I hear you, and don't get me wrong I really like DA:O it's a great game, I've sunk many hours into it and will continue to do so, and I acknowledge everyone has different likes and dislikes... but from me ME1 was awesome enough RPG elements the wicked dialogue system / voice acting really pushed the bar... to me DA:O isn't as innovative.

Don't get me wrong... Bioware want's to do more Sonic the hedge hog games or get into the sports genre they can go right ahead, and I know that you didn't see ME1 as and RPG, but I did, and I don't see ME2 as an RPG and that's what's disappointing.

I'm not a Bioware hater, I think they are probably the best developer around, but I think they've done a sad thing with recent release of ME2 and I intend to voice that opinion until I either get bored or feel like the Bioware Dev/Exec team have heard the message.... I think I'll probably get bored first. 

[Mezinger]

chenDawg wrote...

Mezinger wrote...

I suppose if you say the core of Bioware is all about a good story than okay stated that broadly ME2 probably lives up to that standard... but if you think it takes more than a good story to make an RPG, and that ME2 is lacking some of those things... and that at its core Bioware is a rockstar RPG developer.... well you see where I'm going... 

There is a reason it is and has always been labeled an ACTION-RPG.

I don't agree, is ME2 supposed to be more of an ACTION-RPG then ME1? If that was always the intent I missed the memo.... I don't remember seeing anything for that prepared me for what I feel were dramatic changes in the overall feel of the game between ME1 and ME2... if there was a memo to that effect I missed it. The notion that ACTION-RPG somehow sums it up though is utterly flawed. 

[Wolverfrog]

I don't really see Bioware games as RPGs, like Elder Scrolls or Fallout -- they seem more like interactive stories to me.

[Mezinger]

CraigxGibson wrote...

OP said...


Let me end saying that is not a bad game with a big caveat: Don't expect it to be ME1 but better, it isnt. This is more like a high-quality BW story grafted onto a standard FPS. It is probably deeper than the typical FPS, but not much.

OMG FPS? What game did you get? Mine's in third person. You must have Extra Super Collector's Edition, or something. Either that or in money-grubbing DLC.

On the ammo mechanic front: In the original ME, I could literally shoot my assault rifle non-stop. I don't see how adding a mechanic to prevent endless spray-and-ray is a bad thing, especially if there is a believable ingame reason for it (BTW, your codex says, "what's up?")

I'm not sure what version of ME1 you were playing... but if you shoot your assault rifle non-stop it would over heat. 

[Mezinger]

Wolverfrog wrote...

I don't really see Bioware games as RPGs, like Elder Scrolls or Fallout -- they seem more like interactive stories to me.

I guess it depends on what you think an RPG is... 

However Baulders Gate was widely considered the crowning RPG of it's day... and NWN was an epic attempt to port probably the best known pen and paper RPG system to the computer... 

Bioware games are very much seen by many, most? as RPGs.

[AlanC9]

How come so many Baldur's Gate fans can't spell the game's name right? It's not like they didn't see it spelled right hundreds of times.

[Wolverfrog]

Mezinger wrote...

Wolverfrog wrote...

I don't really see Bioware games as RPGs, like Elder Scrolls or Fallout -- they seem more like interactive stories to me.

I guess it depends on what you think an RPG is... 

However Baulders Gate was widely considered the crowning RPG of it's day... and NWN was an epic attempt to port probably the best known pen and paper RPG system to the computer... 

Bioware games are very much seen by many, most? as RPGs.

I consider RPGs to be games where you're free to do what you want. For example, in Oblivion, I can be a Warrior, a Thief, a Magician. I can also be an Orc who decided to go against the norm and learn magic. I can be an Argonian Assassin who always kills his targets in an honourable battle. I can be a Wood Elf who's a devious and ruthless trader (I actually did this once, it was awesome.)

Whereas in Bioware games, there's a set story path you must stick to.

[Admoniter]

Mezinger wrote...
I'm not sure I agree with you... I think
there's a lot of sentiment on this board that people who don't like it
should "just move on" aka not or stop voicing our opinions.

Unfortunately yes there are people like that on the forums, who viciously defend bioware and ME2. Never the less everyone should voice their opinion on the game. I'd rather have the game change and me not like some of those changes than to have the game just remain what it is and stagnate.

I
regret not spending more time on here being a fanboy of ME1 and
defending viciously the Mako and the elevator rides and the (dare I say
it?) the inventory system and the repetitive base maps on the secondary
worlds... if I had known failure to do so would result in the gutting
of all of it in the sequel I would have found the drive and time rather
than just playing ME1 over and over again.

That said this time
around I'll stick it out a little longer and hope Bioware acknowledges
that there is a contingent of us, Bioware customers / fans, that are
disappointed with their recent release not because it's slightly
different than ME1 but because it has dramatically altered what we knew
and liked and what have been looking forward to more of for quite some
time never really came.

It's good to hear that you plan to stick around, it would really be a shame if the bioware fans left in a huff without getting the chance to explain to bioware what they felt was done wrong in ME2. With that said however, I still feel that Bioware had the right idea with some of the changes they made to ME2.

Like I've said before I think everyone should give it some time so that all the people who are red in the face have a chance to cool down so we can actually get down to civilly discussing things. Hopefully allowing bioware to improve on ME3.

It's really unfortunate for bioware that the ME series is and rpg/shooter (or shooter/rpg if you prefer) because it attracts fans of two very different groups and unfortunately that makes it very hard to please both sides without rubbing one group the wrong way.

[SorrowAndJoy7]

I loved mass effect 1, I'm generally a rpg fanatic, and I wouldn't even say I casually play fps's, barely play them at all. But I have to say I think Mass effect 2 is vastly superior.

I was worried sick about the new ammo system but, it isn't really an issue... this coming from someone who plays an infiltrator and my main weapon is a sniper rifle with 12 rounds... If I can get by using that 80% of the time... I think people should be okay...

I think the new talent system realistically gives more customization then me1 provided. Being able to evolve your talents, get advanced weapon training to learn a new weapon type, get one new set of talents through research based on squad members abilities. Let's put it this way, the points you have to place are much less, but where you place your talents and the decisions you make affect how you play a hell of a lot more than placement in me1 did.

Modifié par SorrowAndJoy7, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:06 .

[nteger]

I'm with you, Mezinger. If we can find a compromise between those of us who had no qualms with ME 1 and those of us who have none with ME 2, then hopefully ME 3 will be just right for everyone. Or it will be terrible for everyone, but I doubt that as most people love both games.

[rabidelfman]

Meh... I've been a fan of Bioware games since Baldur's Gate, and they've never really let me down. Mass Effect 1 was and is still one of my favorite Action-RPGs of all time, but it had some major issues that sometimes made it unplayable. There were sluggish and clunky controls, especially in combat, there were glitches where you would fall through the world. In the Matriarch fight, if you didn't move fast enough after the cut-scenes, you would get stuck in place. Biotics were obscenely overpowered; the Mako, while an awesome vehicle, was flawed and drastically overpowered in that it trivialized every aspect of the game that it was used in. The inventory was super clunky and became over-cluttered easily, not to mention there were horrific graphical glitches.

Mass Effect 2 fixed all of this. No more annoyingly sluggish and clunky combat controls, no more ridiculous Mass Effect Drive-driven Mako-I-Can-Scale-90degree-sheer-cliffs all the while blasting Geth, doing flips while eating an Italian ice. As far as I've played, there are no glitches, the textures actually load, voice acting is phenomenal, combat is nicely paced with more uses of cover. Biotics aren't AS overpowered... still overpowered though, Adepts are just ridiculous. However, I must say I'm not a fan of the helmet system, I'd like to see the helmet graphic removed for cut-scenes, but meh, whatever. The dialogue is terrific, and the Council still ticks me off (yes, I saved them.. shouldn't have).

What I'm trying to say, is Mass Effect 2 really and truly built upon everything that made Mass Effect 1 great, and made it better. Mass Effect 2 was truly made for fans of the first one. Remember, I'm a fan of old school RPGs. I dumped countless hours into BG, NWN, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, etc. and am thoroughly satisfied by the Action-RPG genre that Mass Effect simply and perfectly fits in to. As are millions of other people. The reason it seems like "most" people are upset about this game is that old adage rings true "Those who complain are always the loudest."

Edit: in terms of the ammo, all you had to do was max out your mods with -heat% mods and you could spray bullets practically non-stop.  The new clip/ammo mechanic actually makes you, like, not waste ammo.  It's a good thing.  This is my WoW-player speak coming in, but, only the bads need infinite ammo.

Modifié par rabidelfman, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:15 .

[Teknor]

Good for you OP but i don't get the necessity of announcing this.

[soopdawg6969]

Simple Statement: ME1 was an rpg shooter and ME2 is the same story/dialogue based rpg with more refined shooter elements. There's not much to complain about unless you really loved driving around in the mako and searching for random resources and such. Quite frankly every time a planet i hadn't yet seen had the survey option in ME1 i exhaled. P.S. all the armor weapon customization became irrelevant in the first game once you obtained the elite licenses and the weapon clutter and monetary system was annoying because customization didn't mean much in the end.

[Grammarye]

The OP describes my own experience fairly accurately. I started up ME2 and thought 'why did you change that?!?' for quite a few little bits and pieces (I'd write a more thorough and useful review with constructive criticism, but the likelihood of anyone caring enough to read it at the moment is small - maybe when people have calmed down a bit).

Don't get me wrong, I like ME2 and I'll play it, but I can't help but feel that Bioware spent too much time here listening to all the people complaining about ME1 and decided to change things based on that, ignoring that ME1 fans weren't coming here and praising each specific part of the game, because they already loved Bioware & ME1. Right now, if I'm comparing basic things like UI, core combat design, and other non-story-based aspects of the game, ME1 feels more immersive and better set up.

To put my points in perspective, I preordered ME2 CE without hesitation. Coupled with the slam of getting screwed by EA Marketing this time around, I now hesitate at the thought of doing the same for ME3. Sure, I'm just one fan, but I get the sense I'm not alone.

Teknor wrote... Good for you OP but i don't get the
necessity of announcing this.

Because if nobody does, Bioware will never appreciate that some of the people who loved ME1 are less happy with ME2, and that perhaps if they want to retain that fanbase, they need to consider their design decisions with a little more care and compromise (for the two competing fan styles of FPS and RPG).

Modifié par Grammarye, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:19 .

[Caladar42]

After having played a few hours my personal opinion is: ME2 is a great game. Good job Bioware. However, just like the thread starter, I will wait for the reviews in the future, too. Simply because this is not my type of game. This is an action shooter with some roleplaying elements. I have no problems with that. Just not what I like to play.



The game that I am looking forward to at the moment is Star Wars The Old Republic Online. Bioware, you got me a little scared now. Please dont make it an online shooter.

[AlanC9]

Wolverfrog wrote...

I consider RPGs to be games where you're free to do what you want. For example, in Oblivion, I can be a Warrior, a Thief, a Magician. I can also be an Orc who decided to go against the norm and learn magic. I can be an Argonian Assassin who always kills his targets in an honourable battle. I can be a Wood Elf who's a devious and ruthless trader (I actually did this once, it was awesome.)

That's not what most people mean by RPG. It's a style of RPG, but not the only style.

In fact, you can find groups of RPG fans who think that such freedom violates the essential characteristic of RPGs, since that freedom is purchased by removing all meaningful consequences from the game. Drop by RPGCodex if you want to meet some of them. Though with tastes like yours, you'd better wear an asbestos suit if you go there.

[radwimp]

Caladar42 wrote...

The game that I am looking forward to at the moment is Star Wars The Old Republic Online. Bioware, you got me a little scared now. Please dont make it an online shooter.

Heh, not much chance of that if you've seen the videos. It looks exactly like the first two gameplay wise.

Modifié par jewbagel, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:26 .

[SorrowAndJoy7]

I think the combat in me2 flat out crushes me1. In me1 I felt like omg please get me back to the ship so I can talk to my squad members and get into the story more/do side quests. The combat was tasking, it was okay but it didn't compare to the rest of the game... now the combat and the story I think both are great and I don't feel like I want more of one and less of the other... Me2 I think nailed both of them... my only real complaint is scanning planets, and even that i just put up with because the rest of it is just that good. >.>

[Pa1nt]

I totally agree with the OP about Bioware not living up to its standards with this game.  I love this game but to me it doesn't feel like ME.  To much got changed.  Trying to market a game towards the masses is fine.  That being said marketing a SEQUAL to a game to masses seems dumb.  If they didnt play or like the first one,  to bad.  There is plenty of other games FPS or Action RPG's out there for them.  Please save ME3 I would hate to see that be completly ruined. 

[Marbazoid]

Good post OP.

I don't agree with your comments on DA but I see where your coming from with ME2.

I think one of the quirks about ME1 was that it had a bit of an identity crisis. ME2 does not, it is a shooter rpg, and both the 'shooter' and 'rpg' are just as important and emphasized in ME2.

ME2 feels more confident, it knows what type of game it is.

Modifié par Marbazoid, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:47 .

[Lazy Murph]

Ive been a fan of BioWare since Baldur's Gate and have bought all their games since then. I love Mass1 and i love Mass2. But then im not a die hard RPG player, i play all types of games providing theyre decent. BioWare changed things, get over it.



I see the same types of stuff being written here and on the old forums that I saw on the Fallout forums. Funnily enough i loved Fallout1&2 and i also loved Fallout3.



The only people who seem to complain are RPG purists. People like me who play all sorts of genres dont seem to have that much of a problem with it. Maybe coz i play Gears, Forza, Halo, Borderlands, Op Flashpoint etc etc etc makes me more tolerant of changes, or maybe i just enjoy a good game regardless of its faults.

[Subject One]

Caladar42 wrote...

After having played a few hours my personal opinion is: ME2 is a great game. Good job Bioware. However, just like the thread starter, I will wait for the reviews in the future, too. Simply because this is not my type of game. This is an action shooter with some roleplaying elements. I have no problems with that. Just not what I like to play.

Finally someone accepting the game for what it is. Yeah, maybe ME2 isn't the cup of tea for a hardcore RPG gamer, I respect that, but I think that is a stellar action game. Simply Bioware is trying to achieve something different in this franchise.