230 réponses à ce sujet

[phordicus]

you can't be naive like that. you should count yourself lucky that this is the first time you've been let down by a game. ask a Dawn of War or Deus Ex fan what they thought of those sequels. compared to the first games, they were unbelievably disappointing. the trick is to ignore the publisher, the developer, and any number after the title and treat it as a stand-alone game. it won't improve your perception of it, but it also won't seem to be falling so far short of an arbitrary standard.

[Gaddmeister]

Dadriell wrote...

Gaddmeister wrote...

What you mean by saying that they almost got rid of experience points? You still level up, don't you? Do you have the fewer skills in mind?

You don't get any XP for kills, hacking and other stuff, you barely get XP for finishing quests. You get most of your XP from storyline missions, which is exactly the amount of XP you need to advance to the next level, which is exactly 1000 XP on any level. I don't know about you, but for me it seems pretty much the same as if you would've been rewarded with a few skill points per mission without any experience levels at all.

Oh ok, I thought they only summed up the xp in the end of the missions, but that you still got xp from kills etc. I can see your point then.

[tonnactus]

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

I loved mass effect 1, I'm generally a rpg fanatic, and I wouldn't even say I casually play fps's, barely play them at all. But I have to say I think Mass effect 2 is vastly superior.

No one else frustrated that the "best specialists in the galaxy" only have two active powers?(three,if loyal)
That is really dumbed down,not streamlined.
The custominzation for shepardt is good,but what they did to the party members.JUST Horrible.

Modifié par tonnactus, 30 janvier 2010 - 12:48 .

[Spaceweed10]

silvanis12345 wrote...

I am the biggest BW fanboy you will ever see, but the era of buying BW games without reading a review are over. I noticed the change in DA, but DA was still a darn good game, it just wasn't (as advertised) the spirtual successor to the BG series.

I was very happy with almost all of the game mechanics in ME1, I was simply expecting ME2 to build upon that and make it deeper with more options. They ended up changing many of the core mechanics and taking away the deep character and equiptment customization. In addition (and counter to the novels) they added clips and ammo and eliminated weapon over-heating. They tried to paper it over with some lame lore excuse, but it is really lame.

The first several hours I was playing it I was trying hard to figure out why in the heck they changed this or that. I guess the only answer is they decided to dumb it down, alot like DA (but much worse). I cannot recall ever coming on BW forums and writing a negative post, being a BW fan since the mid-90s. This company has changed directions recently and with ME2 I have lost alot of respect for them.

As far as the story, there is good and bad. I personally find the story less immersive than the first. In ME1, everything felt connected, I felt like I was a part of the universe. Now it distinctly feels like I am completing levels. The seemless manner from which you left your spacecraft and entered the world and back to the spacecraft is gone. In addition, at the end of each level you have a summary screen akin to a score screen in a FPS. The immersion is much reduced between ME1 and ME2.

Let me end saying that is not a bad game with a big caveat: Don't expect it to be ME1 but better, it isnt. This is more like a high-quality BW story grafted onto a standard FPS. It is probably deeper than the typical FPS, but not much.

Sorry BW, I am treating you guys the same way I now treat every game developer- with great skepticism. I will now wait until serious reviews from serious RPG fans are released before I buy another BW game. You can't sit there and wreck a game like that without telling us.

I could care less if people flame me, I won't reply (so dont bother).

No sympathy.  All these things have been explained many times before the game released, so a bit of 'research' would have answered these concerns.

Bioware have attempted to create a hybrid genre - Shooter/RPG - and have plainly advertised this fact, yet you complain about 'lack of RPG, and too much shooter...'

LoL at you.

[AudioJane]

tonnactus wrote...

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

I loved mass effect 1, I'm generally a rpg fanatic, and I wouldn't even say I casually play fps's, barely play them at all. But I have to say I think Mass effect 2 is vastly superior.

No one else frustrated that the "best specialists in the galaxy" only have two active powers...(three,if loyal)
That is really dumbed down,not streamlined.
The custominzation for shepardt is good,but what they did to the party members.JUST Horrible.

You Have to admit they did that for a reason though, from a design standpoint it looks good. The xbox controller only has so many buttons, and if I am not mistaken pausing the game to swtich using ability's was one of the bigger gripes players had in Mass Effect 1.

Now I would like to see about 4 Active ability's per character, mybe 5 and please gid rid of ammo as an ability. Make ammo a mod. And Iagree on party members, the zero customization on them is pretty bad.

Modifié par AudioJane, 30 janvier 2010 - 12:56 .

[Orogenic]

phordicus wrote...

you can't be naive like that. you should count yourself lucky that this is the first time you've been let down by a game. ask a Dawn of War or Deus Ex fan what they thought of those sequels. compared to the first games, they were unbelievably disappointing. the trick is to ignore the publisher, the developer, and any number after the title and treat it as a stand-alone game. it won't improve your perception of it, but it also won't seem to be falling so far short of an arbitrary standard.

Master of Orion III.... I still cringe when I think of it....

[TheTezz]

why in God's name does this hat have a blue trim when i was specifically told it would have a blue trim.



The people who you are trying to inform OP, have already been informed because they were already on the forums before your message, so everything about ME2 being a shooter, etc. has already been talked to death about.



Mass Effect 2 was built to be equal parts shooter and rpg, and while at times i wish it would be more rpg. It lives up to its design goals and is a fantastic game as demonstrated by the copious amounts of reviews.

[tonnactus]

AudioJane wrote...


You Have to admit they did that for a reason though, from a design standpoint it looks good. The xbox controller only has so many buttons, and if I am not mistaken pausing the game to swtich using ability's was one of the bigger gripes players had in Mass Effect 1.

I wasnt one of those players.Those mapped ablities shouldnt be the only one to use.Just the most used,as i understand it from the early gameplay videos.

Now I would like to see about 4 Active ability's per character, mybe 5 and please gid rid of ammo as an ability. Make ammo a mod. And Iagree on party members, the zero customization on them is pretty bad.

Im not sure about the ammo.I cant see much other possiblities to make the soldier class a interesting one without that(restriction for heavy weapons??).The soldier from the first was just a immunity spammer that never needed tactics.

Modifié par tonnactus, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:36 .

[Orogenic]

TheTezz wrote...

why in God's name does this hat have a blue trim when i was specifically told it would have a blue trim.

The people who you are trying to inform OP, have already been informed because they were already on the forums before your message, so everything about ME2 being a shooter, etc. has already been talked to death about.

Mass Effect 2 was built to be equal parts shooter and rpg, and while at times i wish it would be more rpg. It lives up to its design goals and is a fantastic game as demonstrated by the copious amounts of reviews.

What some of the slower members of the class don't seem to understand:

Those of us with busy (normal) lives might not have time to do a ton of research before we buy a game like ME 2.

And (call us crazy) we might expect ME 2 to bear close resemblance to ME 1, a game many of us loved.  All the OP is doing is making a public service announcement because ME 2 really isn't anything like ME 1 at all.  What is so difficult for you kiddies to understand about that?

[Alessaunder]

Spaceweed10 wrote...
No sympathy.  All these things have been explained many times before the game released, so a bit of 'research' would have answered these concerns.

Bioware have attempted to create a hybrid genre - Shooter/RPG - and have plainly advertised this fact, yet you complain about 'lack of RPG, and too much shooter...'

Jeez. How many of these "readup nub lol" replies can people bother to write?

The point of this whole débàcle is that some fans of the series feel disappointed that the Mass Effect sequel has taken a step in an unexpected direction, when all they wanted was more of the same. More of what BioWare are famous for.To many, it would seemingly have been perfectly acceptable if BioWare had made a story shooter standing on its own, outside of the series.

My guess is that they are trying to establish two slightly different lines with DA and ME2, namely a more or less traditional video game RPG line for old fans and WoW players taking a break, as well as a narrative shooter hybrid line for more casual players who can't bother reorganizing their backpacks every 15 mins but still like to be involved in a well-told story. Why they didn't make an altogether new game out of ME2 is probably that they, for good or bad, wanted to build on the already established brand.

For my part, I find ME2 a nice game. A bit overrated, perhaps, and maybe not quite what I expected - but still good. IMO, ME1 was pretty "light" as RPGs go in the first case, so it's no big deal. Didn't research the sequel, didn't stay glued to every wild rumour before release, knew ME1 and simply trusted BioWare. Was surprised, but not shocked. ME2 is an enjoyable ride.

[Veex]

Orogenic wrote...



What some of the slower members of the class don't seem to understand:



Those of us with busy (normal) lives might not have time to do a ton of research before we buy a game like ME 2.



And (call us crazy) we might expect ME 2 to bear close resemblance to ME 1, a game many of us loved. All the OP is doing is making a public service announcement because ME 2 really isn't anything like ME 1 at all. What is so difficult for you kiddies to understand about that?

Wow. You have time to play a video game but not enough time to read a review about it. Sound logic there.

[Akimb0]

silvanis12345 wrote...

I am the biggest BW fanboy you will ever see, but the era of buying BW games without reading a review are over. I noticed the change in DA, but DA was still a darn good game, it just wasn't (as advertised) the spirtual successor to the BG series.

I was very happy with almost all of the game mechanics in ME1, I was simply expecting ME2 to build upon that and make it deeper with more options. They ended up changing many of the core mechanics and taking away the deep character and equiptment customization. In addition (and counter to the novels) they added clips and ammo and eliminated weapon over-heating. They tried to paper it over with some lame lore excuse, but it is really lame.

The first several hours I was playing it I was trying hard to figure out why in the heck they changed this or that. I guess the only answer is they decided to dumb it down, alot like DA (but much worse). I cannot recall ever coming on BW forums and writing a negative post, being a BW fan since the mid-90s. This company has changed directions recently and with ME2 I have lost alot of respect for them.

As far as the story, there is good and bad. I personally find the story less immersive than the first. In ME1, everything felt connected, I felt like I was a part of the universe. Now it distinctly feels like I am completing levels. The seemless manner from which you left your spacecraft and entered the world and back to the spacecraft is gone. In addition, at the end of each level you have a summary screen akin to a score screen in a FPS. The immersion is much reduced between ME1 and ME2.

Let me end saying that is not a bad game with a big caveat: Don't expect it to be ME1 but better, it isnt. This is more like a high-quality BW story grafted onto a standard FPS. It is probably deeper than the typical FPS, but not much.

Sorry BW, I am treating you guys the same way I now treat every game developer- with great skepticism. I will now wait until serious reviews from serious RPG fans are released before I buy another BW game. You can't sit there and wreck a game like that without telling us.

I could care less if people flame me, I won't reply (so dont bother).

1) It's COULDN'T care less. Could care less implies you care at least to some degree. Anyway, now that my OCD grammar/language is past.

2) I agree. I'll actually be writing a review of this game when I finish my first run through. I'm making notes as I play through so it may actually be longer than I intend. Overall I feel the same way regarding reviews of games and skepticism concerning publishers and developers. I bought this game simply because it's a sequal to ME1. Silly me. I went by the PCGamer review, saying it was a little dumbed down but still a great game. Silly me. Biggest dissapointment of 2010 so far? ME2. <_<

[wolfwarp]

silvanis12345 wrote...

I am the biggest BW fanboy you will ever see, but the era of buying BW games without reading a review are over. I noticed the change in DA, but DA was still a darn good game, it just wasn't (as advertised) the spirtual successor to the BG series.

I was very happy with almost all of the game mechanics in ME1, I was simply expecting ME2 to build upon that and make it deeper with more options. They ended up changing many of the core mechanics and taking away the deep character and equiptment customization. In addition (and counter to the novels) they added clips and ammo and eliminated weapon over-heating. They tried to paper it over with some lame lore excuse, but it is really lame.

The first several hours I was playing it I was trying hard to figure out why in the heck they changed this or that. I guess the only answer is they decided to dumb it down, alot like DA (but much worse). I cannot recall ever coming on BW forums and writing a negative post, being a BW fan since the mid-90s. This company has changed directions recently and with ME2 I have lost alot of respect for them.

As far as the story, there is good and bad. I personally find the story less immersive than the first. In ME1, everything felt connected, I felt like I was a part of the universe. Now it distinctly feels like I am completing levels. The seemless manner from which you left your spacecraft and entered the world and back to the spacecraft is gone. In addition, at the end of each level you have a summary screen akin to a score screen in a FPS. The immersion is much reduced between ME1 and ME2.

Let me end saying that is not a bad game with a big caveat: Don't expect it to be ME1 but better, it isnt. This is more like a high-quality BW story grafted onto a standard FPS. It is probably deeper than the typical FPS, but not much.

Sorry BW, I am treating you guys the same way I now treat every game developer- with great skepticism. I will now wait until serious reviews from serious RPG fans are released before I buy another BW game. You can't sit there and wreck a game like that without telling us.

I could care less if people flame me, I won't reply (so dont bother).

I agree with you in totality.

In ME 1, I feel like I am flying my spaceship.  In ME 2, they even take away the decontainmination process prior to returning to my spaceship.  That alone makes it more like a "fast pace" shooter game with teleports here and there.  And I am actually OK with the elevators.  Now ... oh well.

Anyway, give it some time.  You may get used to it.  I do.  And ME 2 is a pretty gun game.  Just wish some of the ME 1 essence was not lost.

[matt-bassist]

I havent read all the posts here, but to answer the beginning posts, including the OP, are we playing the same game? After about 8 hours i've been in exactly 4 firefights. 4. I'd say I've actually shot a gun maybe for 30 minutes of those 8 hours. And you know what? the shooting mechanics are great. Me1 sucked as a 3rd person shooter. me2 is awesome as both and RPG and a 3rd person shooter (dunno why people keep calling it an FPS). But i've sat through hours and hours of dialogue, which is great. its exactly what i expect from a bioware masterpiece.



you guys shouldn't be so afraid of change. its not like the great story, great characters and deep narrative is sudden gone. its still there, in full force. and the shooter parts are great too. Bioware has done an outstanding job with ME2.



and before you come with "oh youre a new fan boy bs" my first bioware experience was with BG1 back in 1999. and ive been a fan ever since. so suck it up and deal with change.

[Zack Ross]

Please don't lump me in with the rest of the "long" time fans that you keep talking about. I've been a fan of theirs since the mid 90's and I can understand why they did what they did with Mass Effect 2. Personally I love this game, and I still haven't put it down, even though I've tried to go play Uncharted 2 again. I like the RPG elements and the choices I'm given, definitely more shades of gray here, I'm not really sure what I should do at certain points of the game, even being a full Paragon Shepard he does the occasional Renegade interrupt anyway. XD If you all want to voice your opinions on this game, by all means.



Everyone has their own personal tastes, I have a few minor annoyances with ME2, such as not being able to change my armor when I'm on a mission, even with say an Armor locker o.O But it's one of my favorite games, and I am glad they took out most of the things they did, I don't miss them too much, looking forward to future DLC with this game though. Word of advice to those looking for a true RPG to play Demon's Souls comes to mind, if you're a purist. Now that's just a delightfully fun game. But I wouldn't get too upset with Bioware at this point, see what they do in the future and for now just let it go and take it easy ya know?

[Akimb0]

But I wouldn't get too upset with Bioware at this point, see what they do in the future and for now just let it go and take it easy ya know?

I think people (especially PC users) have every right to be upset. The reviews don't do justice to how dumbed down the game has been. So many lack of options. I won't go into everything here, because I'm still playing through the game and making notes so I can form a real review of the game. However I will say that Biowares recent releases have been dissapointing and if it's a sign of what they intend their games to be like in the future, I'll learn from it and not waste my money on them again. It's not like I can turn around as a PC user and sell my games, so my £50 investment, of which I can recoup nothing, is perhaps a bit harder to swallow, than for a console gamer who can at least sell their game on if they don't like it.

[Jonnerz]

Hardcore fans of medieval roleplaying titles are as likely to be disappointed with ME2 as they are with Gears of War or Halo. It doesn't require reading a review to understand what Bioware tried to accomplish with ME2, you only need to watch the gameplay trailers.

It really comes as no surprise that you dislike this game, being a fan of the company since Baldur's Gate. Though the two can be labelled under the RPG genre, they are two very different styles and have very different game mechanics. Like I'd expect from different franchises, to be honest. I'd be irritated if a company sold the same game system to me constantly, with some flashier textures and a higher price tag.

It can sometimes pay off to make a drastic change. I personally think it worked here. And I also think the fact that it's received 'universal critical acclaim' and positive publicity means that, overall, their modifications on the sequel have resulted in success, whether or not you personally disapprove.

You have the right to lose respect for the company. However, the vast majority have gained respect for Bioware, so it's not a surprise that people won't receive these complaints with a smile and an agreement.

[Zack Ross]

Akimb0 wrote...

But I wouldn't get too upset with Bioware at this point, see what they do in the future and for now just let it go and take it easy ya know?

I think people (especially PC users) have every right to be upset. The reviews don't do justice to how dumbed down the game has been. So many lack of options. I won't go into everything here, because I'm still playing through the game and making notes so I can form a real review of the game. However I will say that Biowares recent releases have been dissapointing and if it's a sign of what they intend their games to be like in the future, I'll learn from it and not waste my money on them again. It's not like I can turn around as a PC user and sell my games, so my £50 investment, of which I can recoup nothing, is perhaps a bit harder to swallow, than for a console gamer who can at least sell their game on if they don't like it.

See thing is, I'm a PC Gamer too. I have Dragon Age on my PC, merely had ME 1 for 360, so I got ME 2 for it as well. I think you guys seriously need to lighten up, I mean sure I'm probably young compared to all of you and know next to nothing, but I learned a long time ago that if I get upset everytime a game company makes a decision I don't agree with that I'll be in the ground pretty damn quick. Is it dumbed down? Yeah it is, but do I still love this game? Yes I do, and this is coming from someone who has KOTOR in his top ten games of all time. I still find it to be an enjoyable game, and a good RPG, even if its dumbed down. You guys spend so much time looking for faults that you don't get to enjoy the game, and believe me I understand why you're upset. I'm just saying I think you should at least try to enjoy the game, or go play something  you DO enjoy as opposed to wasting energy on this fruitless campaign, that isn't going to get much done.

I'll tell you straight, even if they've pissed off a chunk of their core fan base, you probably won't see them go back a step into ME3 and return the inventory system and micro-management. It just won't happen. This game was trying to capture a broader audience, sometimes that means pissing off the core. Just how business works, and in the end thats what business is, companies have to evolve or bite the dust, I'd rather keep Bioware around.

[matt-bassist]

Shame for you. You are letting a few elements that were dropped (inventory, mako and transitional elements) ruin a superb game for you. But I guess if those are the things that make or break a game for you, then I guess you can feel a bit upset.



I mean, it's not like Bioware has a reputation for games with stellar stories, writing, characters and choices. Dumbed down? Do you actually speak to the characters in game? There is no way in HELL a "14 year old Modern Warfare 2" kid could play this game for longer than 20 minutes.



So shove it.

[VSorceress]

I respectfully disagree with EVERYTHING the original post and those who agree with him.



I am an old fan of BW , and an old fan of the ME1. I think ME2 is a fantastic and well done successor to the first one.



Keep this in mind, most of your review and fan scores are no less than a 9/10 and well deserved in my opinion. This is not a true RPG; it never was in ME1 and will never be . They created a hybrid of RPG and shooter elements and it has evolved into something in which this industry hasn't seen before...



You can either accept it or move on, but don't expect for this to all of a sudden change its style because its not something you want it to be.

[Orogenic]

Veex wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

What some of the slower members of the class don't seem to understand:

Those of us with busy (normal) lives might not have time to do a ton of research before we buy a game like ME 2.

And (call us crazy) we might expect ME 2 to bear close resemblance to ME 1, a game many of us loved. All the OP is doing is making a public service announcement because ME 2 really isn't anything like ME 1 at all. What is so difficult for you kiddies to understand about that?

Wow. You have time to play a video game but not enough time to read a review about it. Sound logic there.

No, not enough time to read through 100 reviews and determine which ones are biased and which ones are full of crap (and quite honestly all of the reviews I HAVE read are from a "more shooting is better" perspective which wouldn't have been very helpful in the first place).  I'm starting to realize I'll get another clueless smartass answer no matter what I type here.  Both a little sad and a little funny.

[Orogenic]

matt-bassist wrote...

 There is no way in HELL a "14 year old Modern Warfare 2" kid could play this game for longer than 20 minutes.

So shove it.

1) Almost every thread on this forum is FULL of evidence to the contrary.

2) Pointless rudeness. classy.

[Psython]

So now I am 20 hrs in and I still love the game. Still, I think this game would be better if the inventory, weapon mods, ammo system and mako sidequests were not taken out or replaced with something worse. No one here is saying the game sucks or that they were missinformed about what the game would be like. People have a right to say what they want without all these abusive comments derailing the thread and being rude. Seriously, if you dont get the point of this thread, which of course is to have a serious discussion about whether ME2 is a worthy sequel or not, then please stop.

I think ME2 is a great game that moved in a different direction than a lot of fans wanted. It pains me because it would just about be perfect if they just improved what was wrong in ME1 instead of replacing all those customization aspects with nothing really. Does anyone out there think scanning planets is an improvement for the mako. Is having no loot and using mostly the same guns for the whole game really better? Why are there not more armor pieces in this game if they bothered to develop a modular system? Why do you not get xp for kills and hacking, decrypting now? Why do you get exactly the same 1000xp for completing missions so you always level up at the same time?

I can live with some of these terrible ideas and lousy implementation because the core combat, dialog and story is still good. Its just that as someone who liked the original ME some parts of the sequel are too changed and boring now to consider it a perfect successor as the reviews claim. Its still a great game though. The worst part is everyone knows that these changes were made to bring in the kids and manbabies for extra sales at the expense of the game.

[Phil5000]

I haven't been playing long (just got the Normandy) but I'm disappointed. I wish they'd left the machanics much more like ME1. It feels watered down to me. My two biggest complaints so far is removing most of the skills and the health system (regenerating and only needing medigel when someone is knocked out).



I guess I would have still bought the game had I known. But I'm not loving it. You can tell because I'm here instead of playing it right now.



I do however like the ammo idea. I think the limitless ammo of the first game was a big, big mistake. Largely because there was too much loot, and one of the reasons was instead of opening a crate or picking up an enemy's drop and finding some ammo like you would in most games, since there is no ammo they had to give you yet another weapon or suit of armour.



They obviously couldn't go back on that and now for some reason weapons need ammo, so they did the next best thing with the heat sink idea. But it doesn't work quite right because you can't fire at all without a heat sink, whereas before you could. But I think having to reload is better, personally.

[silvanis12345]

AudioJane wrote...

Long time Forum reader first time responder, I just want to throw my Two cents in.

I can understand RPG players frustration with this installement of Mass Effect. I too found myself saying WTF a couple times. But despite Mass Effect 2 lacking alot of RPG elements that I like; It is a very solid game. I will now list the good and the bad based on my opinion.

First the good of course:

1. Combat: Is way better, My heart actually thumps in my chest now. And death is actually a real fear, I can count on one hand how many times I died in Mass Effect 1

2. Graphics: The game runs and looks so much better.

3. Streamlined skills and ability's : Lets face it some of the skills in Mass Effect 1 were completely worthless. The really good skills are easily mapped now on the 360 controller and you don't have to pause all the time to switch. 
(Although) This is a double edged sword.......Will explain in the bad section.

4. Custom Armor for Shep: Way cool.

5.Awsome top tier Weapons: You gotta agree that 12 round mag Sniper Rifle is just So NASTY I love firing that thing. It's like a Barret 50.on steriods.

6. Overall Story is still good....not epic but good.

7.Last but not least the Normandy: Freaking awsome ship.

Well now the bad.

1. Ammo : It doesn't really do much in my mind. it's about the same as cooldown. If anything it just annoys us on low mag count weapons like shotguns and entry level snipers.

2. Not enough weapons: The weapons scene except for heavy and AR's is pretty barren. More weapons please.

3. Lack of inventory. I like shuffling through inventory but that is just me.

4. Zero Exploration: The Mako was cool man felt like I was an Explorer. Now I am just a Hired gun. (Hoping DLC fixes this)

5. Probe Fest: Worst Idea ever,Bioware come on baby!

6. Lack of Armor's : They gave us a cool armor changer with zero armor to change.

7.Not enough Ability's and Skills: Now again double edge sword on this one, I understand they paried it down to streamline. But lets get a little more choice please, I mean really Ammo as an ability?  (That promted a WTF moment)

Overall I am happy with Mass Effect 2, And I look forward to Mass Effect 3 with some changes to put some RPG back in the game.

Thank you for the fair and reasonable post.

 Alot of people are saying the game is more difficult than ME1, but at the same time the level of difficulty could have been tweaked without  a new system. So, I dont see this as a game difficulty argument as much as an age preferernce argument.