230 réponses à ce sujet

[Schneidend]

Oh, man, these threads were stupid before, but now that I've actually played the game I can't help but be amused by them. ME2's incredible. End of story, pretty much.

[silvanis12345]

VSorceress wrote...

I respectfully disagree with EVERYTHING the original post and those who agree with him.

I am an old fan of BW , and an old fan of the ME1. I think ME2 is a fantastic and well done successor to the first one.

Keep this in mind, most of your review and fan scores are no less than a 9/10 and well deserved in my opinion. This is not a true RPG; it never was in ME1 and will never be . They created a hybrid of RPG and shooter elements and it has evolved into something in which this industry hasn't seen before...

You can either accept it or move on, but don't expect for this to all of a sudden change its style because its not something you want it to be.

I am here to simply register my opinion to anybody who wants to read it. Its fine you don't like my opinion, it doesn't bother me a bit.

ME1 and ME2 are both roleplaying games. Its just that ME2 is further down the spectrum toward action than ME1 on the RPG scale. There is nothing wrong with that, but the new direction BW is heading will be noted by this fan.

It does depress me a bit that one of  the last refuges of older, more mature gamers is changing to accommodate a younger age range, something almost every other developer in the world is doing. Soon, BW will join the faceless masses of other game developers that peddle to short attention spans.

[Johnson45]

silvanis12345 wrote...

VSorceress wrote...

I respectfully disagree with EVERYTHING the original post and those who agree with him.

I am an old fan of BW , and an old fan of the ME1. I think ME2 is a fantastic and well done successor to the first one.

Keep this in mind, most of your review and fan scores are no less than a 9/10 and well deserved in my opinion. This is not a true RPG; it never was in ME1 and will never be . They created a hybrid of RPG and shooter elements and it has evolved into something in which this industry hasn't seen before...

You can either accept it or move on, but don't expect for this to all of a sudden change its style because its not something you want it to be.

I am here to simply register my opinion to anybody who wants to read it. Its fine you don't like my opinion, it doesn't bother me a bit.

ME1 and ME2 are both roleplaying games. Its just that ME2 is further down the spectrum toward action than ME1 on the RPG scale. There is nothing wrong with that, but the new direction BW is heading will be noted by this fan.

It does depress me a bit that one of  the last refuges of older, more mature gamers is changing to accommodate a younger age range, something almost every other developer in the world is doing. Soon, BW will join the faceless masses of other game developers that peddle to short attention spans.

Don't scare me like that

[Zemore]

i agree with op =/ ammo seemed a bit half assed id be fine if i played ME 1 with no infinate ammo ... but then they change that in ME 2 its like saying "BTW you found god but he isnt in this castle please go to the next world"

Overall the game was as lack luster as its orginal storywise it seems very .. weak even compared to dragon age which has some issues but i still love it.



as a standard ME2 is nowhere near my fav RPG but i still consider it owrthy of playing nice game just not close to the best

[AlanC9]

silvanis12345 wrote...
It does depress me a bit that one of  the last refuges of older, more mature gamers is changing to accommodate a younger age range, something almost every other developer in the world is doing. Soon, BW will join the faceless masses of other game developers that peddle to short attention spans.

What makes you think that? Bio didn't change after Jade empire -- why should they change after ME2?

[Schneidend]

Change the thread title to "If you loved ME1 and are easily butthurt by any change at all..." etc.

[kiyyto]

Zemore wrote...

i agree with op =/ ammo seemed a bit half assed id be fine if i played ME 1 with no infinate ammo ... but then they change that in ME 2 its like saying "BTW you found god but he isnt in this castle please go to the next world"
Overall the game was as lack luster as its orginal storywise it seems very .. weak even compared to dragon age which has some issues but i still love it.

as a standard ME2 is nowhere near my fav RPG but i still consider it owrthy of playing nice game just not close to the best

A lot of the game seems half assed.
As far as I'm concerned BioWare has taken a step back. I don't know about the rest of the people here, but a large part of my reasoning for being upset with ME2 is because I preordered. I should have just rented and then it would be no big deal.

That being said, since I already bought the game, at least the story gets better half way through. I'm digging it now.

[MythikStripes]

chenDawg wrote...

Mezinger wrote...

Bioware are you listening? Some of your longest dearest fans are very upset with your newest release.

People can argue about it all they want... it's still an RPG it's not an RPG... point blank is a lot of people who really enjoyed ME1 are upset about ME2... and these aren't cry baby's who don't like any changes... these are old school, long term, profitable fans of the Bioware company... this is bad news.

Not that I'm against making your fans happy, but I'm quite sure they made far more money off of the new fans who loved the new gameplay over the few that cried over change.

Thats what most dont understand. The people who dont like ME2 are a minority.

[matt-bassist]

How have they catered to people with "short attention spans"? The amount of stuff you have to remember, the depth of conversations you go into with characters, there is no way a 'kid' with a 'short attention span' would like ME2. There is just no way this game was catered to that kind of crowd. No way.



Sure there is some Third Person shooter action, but if you would be so kind as to think back to our 'beloved' ME1: Noveria, after the beginning section there is a TON of shooting. Feros, after some chatting in Zhu's Hope, its straight up shooting basically the whole way til the end. Virmire - Tough choices and ALOT of shooting. Ilos, lots of shooting. Finding Liara is pretty much a shooter the whole way.



The only negative I have so far with the game, is the lack of inventory and weapons/armour/ammunition. I like having a stupid amount of choice. Also, I'm not one who minds running ALL the way back to the Normandy at the beginning of the level, so the teleporting all over is a bit immersion-breaking. But not badly. Other than that, I feel they've improved on every other aspect of the game.



In the end, I'm not going to let one or two little changes ruin this spectacular game for me. Sure it plays a bit differently, but it's still Mass Effect. And it's a damn good one too.

[Batlorn]

I totaly agree with you silvanis12345 , they changed a lot of things and get the game much more closer to action/TPS games but yes the game is still great with all these choies we have and story. I am a hardcore fan of Bioware so far played all their games but something is not right with ME2 in RPG way. Why did they make everything so simple in RPG mechanics is a mystery and it's coming from a huge RPG developer. Let's hope we have deeper mechanics in ME3. I say it again : game is still awesome just lacking something that there were there before ...

[pawpal]

The first game isn't perfect, it has many flaws. But it's an RPG, a genre which comprises deeper game mechanics than FPS/TPS/action games. Elements which offer players a high degree of choice. That's why we are so disappointed with ME2. The 'choices' available are mostly cosmetic. There is little incentive to do replays with different conversation selections or character builds. That's why other developers include online multi-player with their FPS/TPS/action games. They understand the single player campaign is not deep enough to engage a player for a long period of time.



For those of you who like ME2, great for you. But have you considered how Bioware will make ME3 according to feedback from ME2? Do you really want to play the final game in the trilogy building yet another new team with another incredibly brief main story chain? All these team members you got to know sidelined or bumped off like the ones from ME? Or have them simply gameplay even further, just go all the way GoW style?

[silvanis12345]

I believe reviving this thread is warranted; for the sake of fairness I have come back to give my complete opinion of the game (having finally finished it).



While my earlier comments about ripping customization out of ME2 still stand, I think the new system works well. I now have a full appreciation of how things work together, and it is a fun game. I decided to play the game on its own terms and forget about ME1, and I very much enjoyed it.



That is not to say I prefer the ME2 system over the ME1 system, but combat is good and balanced. At the same time, there is very little variation in weapons and the upgrade system is pretty lame. I dont think the ME1 system need to be scraped in favor of this, just streamlined.



Anyway, ME2 is a very good game. The ending was very good, though not as good as ME1. I think the choices at the end of ME2 were more important than the choices in ME1, I have to give props here. I also liked the character driven plot, a nice break from the epic whirlwind you got caught up in the first one.



As far as ME3, let me say that we need armor and weapon customization back and many more weapons and armor to choose from. I can live with the thermal clips (I still dont see why they were needed, tweaks would have been better), but customization of character is a must.



Also let me relay a couple of decision (changes) that I really loved: I loved being able to respec Sheppard. I know it is a RP no-no, but the joy of experimentation was enormous. I also liked the instant paragon/renegade decisions, a very nice touch. I makes you react rather than think, it added a nice element to character development.



I do look forward to ME3 and I hope that BW sees that more options and customization (gear wise) is the way to go in the next one, not less.

[MPaBkaTa123]

silvanis12345 wrote...

I believe reviving this thread is warranted; for the sake of fairness I have come back to give my complete opinion of the game (having finally finished it).

While my earlier comments about ripping customization out of ME2 still stand, I think the new system works well. I now have a full appreciation of how things work together, and it is a fun game. I decided to play the game on its own terms and forget about ME1, and I very much enjoyed it.

That is not to say I prefer the ME2 system over the ME1 system, but combat is good and balanced. At the same time, there is very little variation in weapons and the upgrade system is pretty lame. I dont think the ME1 system need to be scraped in favor of this, just streamlined.

Anyway, ME2 is a very good game. The ending was very good, though not as good as ME1. I think the choices at the end of ME2 were more important than the choices in ME1, I have to give props here. I also liked the character driven plot, a nice break from the epic whirlwind you got caught up in the first one.

As far as ME3, let me say that we need armor and weapon customization back and many more weapons and armor to choose from. I can live with the thermal clips (I still dont see why they were needed, tweaks would have been better), but customization of character is a must.

Also let me relay a couple of decision (changes) that I really loved: I loved being able to respec Sheppard. I know it is a RP no-no, but the joy of experimentation was enormous. I also liked the instant paragon/renegade decisions, a very nice touch. I makes you react rather than think, it added a nice element to character development.

I do look forward to ME3 and I hope that BW sees that more options and customization (gear wise) is the way to go in the next one, not less.

A well written post viewing both good and bad sides while never insulting people but respecting their opinion, on the BW forums! Congratulations all this is the Apocalypse.

[Frotality]

OP is the last of a dying breed....

bioware knows that, hence the new direction. i always knew the revelation that " masses=simple mass appeal= masses, if a=b and b=c then mass appeal=simple" would get everyone in the end, though i had hoped bioware would at least remain ignorant for the duration of the ME series...but they didnt. im fully expecting ME3 to be less deep than halo, because that would sell a million more copies than a true tps/rpg hybrid for a fraction of the cost. they claim to want to 'evolve' the rpg genre, but rpgs are for people who like depth (in short supply), and simplistic shooters are teh kewlness, so by the horribly flawed laws of social 'evolution'...guess what evolution means for the rpg genre.

so at least we can die in silent dignity OP, knowing that one day the world will mourn our loss, while mass media continues to praise things like MW2 and avatar as brilliant, and the fabric of human society crashes down around their simple, ignorant minds...so for the posterity of our kind:
 
                                                                                     R.I.P

                                                                              RPG Genre

                                                                 1975 (Dungeon) - 2009 (DAO)

[twaninator]

Frotality wrote...

OP is the last of a dying breed....

bioware knows that, hence the new direction. i always knew the revelation that " masses=simple mass appeal= masses, if a=b and b=c then mass appeal=simple" would get everyone in the end, though i had hoped bioware would at least remain ignorant for the duration of the ME series...but they didnt. im fully expecting ME3 to be less deep than halo, because that would sell a million more copies than a true tps/rpg hybrid for a fraction of the cost. they claim to want to 'evolve' the rpg genre, but rpgs are for people who like depth (in short supply), and simplistic shooters are teh kewlness, so by the horribly flawed laws of social 'evolution'...guess what evolution means for the rpg genre.

so at least we can die in silent dignity OP, knowing that one day the world will mourn our loss, while mass media continues to praise things like MW2 and avatar as brilliant, and the fabric of human society crashes down around their simple, ignorant minds...so for the posterity of our kind:
 
                                                                                     R.I.P

                                                                              RPG Genre

                                                                 1975 (Dungeon) - 2009 (DAO)

Sir, in summarizing my exact thoughts on the topic, you have saved me a lot of typing and for that I thank you. I only wish people would realize that having mass appeal doesn't inherently make something "good". Remember this Bioware.

[orpheus333]

Mezinger wrote...

Bioware are you listening? Some of your longest dearest fans are very upset with your newest release.

People can argue about it all they want... it's still an RPG it's not an RPG... point blank is a lot of people who really enjoyed ME1 are upset about ME2... and these aren't cry baby's who don't like any changes... these are old school, long term, profitable fans of the Bioware company... this is bad news.

Having said that long term, die-hard bioware fans that love ME1 also loved ME2 and thought it was a far more polished, streamlined role-playing experiance than the original. I've been playing role-playing games for years and while ME2 has its faults (what game doesn't) it is a significant improvement over ME1 IMO.

[twaninator]

People throw the word "streamlined" around as if it epitomizes improvement. Please understand that not everybody prefers simplicity over depth.

[bjdbwea]

When you already bring an old thread up, let me say that I agree with everything the OP said. As far as I can see, ME 2 was the first game that was developed from the start under EA. I don't blame them for wanting to make more money, and quicker. They're not the devil. They're simply moving a gaming business that for some time was a little more idealistic and perhaps naive (hence a lot of closed studios) more into the capitalistic approach. The question always was if BioWare was big enough to resist that, at least to some extent. Answer: Maybe a little, but certainly not enough. The result was a game that I for one would not pay full price for again. Not even with this free DLC stuff, which so far hasn't added anything that I'd really need either.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 13 février 2010 - 10:56 .

[orpheus333]

twaninator wrote...

People throw the word "streamlined" around as if it epitomizes improvement. Please understand that not everybody prefers simplicity over depth.

There is something to be said about simplicity. It is not necessarily a bad thing at all and i think people tend to ignore the beauty that can be found in the simple over the complex. Even as far as mistaking complexity for 'depth' which is equally thrown around on these forums.

I'm not saying i'm right though and i do understand why others would be put out by the changes.

[ZimboFromOuterSpace]

I am also a big BW fan from the beginning. I even liked mdk2 very much



I am on illum right now and up to this point ME2 is really a great game, but it has some issues for sure. Being a hardcore crpg & action gamer, i think that toning down core crpg gameplay elements like inventory management, exploration and character development was a bad design choice. I have no problem with the refinement of the TPS elements. ME1 was horrible in this respect;). Unfortunately the TPS elements of ME2 are not on par with the best out there(GoW, uncharted).



But a game is the sum of its parts and overall ME2 is great. But I wish that the exploration & inventory return in ME3. I like it when you are able to change the armor of party members;)



I liked the mako parts of ME1 by the way. They reminded me of the starflight games(maybe some of you still know them. Great games)

[corebit]

silvanis12345 wrote...

I am the biggest BW fanboy you will ever see.

So big that you haven't bothered to register any of their games...

[MPaBkaTa123]

Yes the RPG genre is dead. ME2 is not worthy of being called one. DAO was the last rpg ever made ever.Also EA is the devil.

[twaninator]

andyr1986 wrote...

twaninator wrote...

People throw the word "streamlined" around as if it epitomizes improvement. Please understand that not everybody prefers simplicity over depth.

There is something to be said about simplicity. It is not necessarily a bad thing at all and i think people tend to ignore the beauty that can be found in the simple over the complex. Even as far as mistaking complexity for 'depth' which is equally thrown around on these forums.

I'm not saying i'm right though and i do understand why others would be put out by the changes.

Man I totally agree with you. I understand the appeal of simplicity and it definately has its place but it's all relative. Im only labeling it unfavorable because of it's context. The foundation of the series was built upon mechanics that were at least somewhat complex and many people were draw to the original for that reason. I simply dissagree that the word "streamlined" should always carry a positive connotation.

[MPaBkaTa123]

Complex my ass. What all the passive skills in ME1 were was redundant. What you really had was 3 point skills mashed together with miniscule yet necessary 0,2% improvements in the ability to shoot a guy in the face.

[twaninator]

andyr1986 wrote...

twaninator wrote...

People throw the word "streamlined" around as if it epitomizes improvement. Please understand that not everybody prefers simplicity over depth.

There is something to be said about simplicity. It is not necessarily a bad thing at all and i think people tend to ignore the beauty that can be found in the simple over the complex. Even as far as mistaking complexity for 'depth' which is equally thrown around on these forums.

I'm not saying i'm right though and i do understand why others would be put out by the changes.

Man I totally agree with you. I understand the appeal of simplicity and it definately has its place but it's all relative. Im only labeling it unfavorable because of it's context. The foundation of the series was built upon mechanics that were at least somewhat complex and many people were draw to the original for that reason. I simply dissagree that the word "streamlined" should always carry a positive connotation.