But isn't it strange though, why would the essence of the archdemon seek out the baby if it has no taint and when the nearest tainted person is the grey warden.
The unborn child
Débuté par
Focaccia
, janv. 29 2010 10:18
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#27
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 07:33
Dahelia
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Focaccia wrote...
But isn't it strange though, why would the essence of the archdemon seek out the baby if it has no taint and when the nearest tainted person is the grey warden.
Morrigan said it was a ritual and that it would recieve the taint from whoever slept with her..but you know what...what gets me is she said about this is the reason why her mother wanted her to go..I am wondering if whether Flemeth dies of old age or you kill her (depending on which option you pick) if Flemeth is going to use this child as her new host...that's what gets me thinking.
#28
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 07:44
Thor Rand Al
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Dahelia wrote...
Focaccia wrote...
But isn't it strange though, why would the essence of the archdemon seek out the baby if it has no taint and when the nearest tainted person is the grey warden.
Morrigan said it was a ritual and that it would recieve the taint from whoever slept with her..but you know what...what gets me is she said about this is the reason why her mother wanted her to go..I am wondering if whether Flemeth dies of old age or you kill her (depending on which option you pick) if Flemeth is going to use this child as her new host...that's what gets me thinking.
Flemeth doesn't die so to speak... Morrigan does say if you can defeat her it will weaken Flemeth but even Morrigan says you can't kill her... N yes I'm thinking that once Morrigan realized how Flemeth keeps livin on that she was afraid that Flemeth might come n take the baby as her next host... Hmm but that doesn't make since lol... Flemeth might of sent Morrigan to get pregnant n then waited for Morrigan to have baby, take Morrigan's body until baby was old enough then take baby, but Morrigan found out about it n wants mom to diappear but I still don't see how Morrigan's gonna stop Flemeth as child gets older... To much confusion n we don't know enough about Flemeth n Morrigan n what the plans are exactly... More than anything else Morrigan wants that grimoire of Flemeths, to bad we couldn't figure out what's really in that book
Edit: I wonder if Flemeth can take on other people as hosts besides her daughters, thats the question n that would be how she could stay alive until childs older.
Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:46 .
#29
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 08:15
SusanStoHelit
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* If you didn't do the ritual, Urthemiel is dead. If you did the ritual, Urthemiel is still alive, in the child that Morrigan is carrying.
* Flemeth is an abomination, she has a demon inside her, as well as a shapeshifting mage (witch); that's why she's so powerful. She shapeshifts to a high dragon - like the one at Haven - not to an Archdemon.
* Some speculate that Morrigan wants the child so she can do the same thing to it that Flemeth was going to do to her. Others think she's trying to save the Old God, have it be born and live again untainted. Others speculate other things. But it's all speculation, we just don't know yet.
* Flemeth is an abomination, she has a demon inside her, as well as a shapeshifting mage (witch); that's why she's so powerful. She shapeshifts to a high dragon - like the one at Haven - not to an Archdemon.
* Some speculate that Morrigan wants the child so she can do the same thing to it that Flemeth was going to do to her. Others think she's trying to save the Old God, have it be born and live again untainted. Others speculate other things. But it's all speculation, we just don't know yet.
#30
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 08:25
TheBlackBaron
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The problem with the possession theories is that it pretty blatantly flies in the face of what we've been informed of elsewhere, that two souls cannot occupy the same body. That means jacking the kid would require either her or Flemeth to destroy its soul...which would kind of defeat the purpose of the whole ordeal in the first place.
Besides that, as powerful as Flemeth is, I think even she would think twice before attempting to kill an Old God. Morrigan is nowhere near that level of power.
Besides that, as powerful as Flemeth is, I think even she would think twice before attempting to kill an Old God. Morrigan is nowhere near that level of power.
#31
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 08:30
Focaccia
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I thought flemeth was dead, and it's now just the "demon" that's alive and pretending to be a human witch. Just what is this demon i'm not sure. I think flemeth never originally had shape shifting capabilities, i believe it was the demon's power or rather somehow the "demon" assimilated the wilds into her and made it possible for her to shapeshift.
Maybe when you refuse morrigon she goes of and get a chasind male to have the baby, maybe it's the ritual that's important and not who she sleeps with. It might kill the grey warden but possibly the essence still flows to the baby.
Speculation is so much fun
Maybe when you refuse morrigon she goes of and get a chasind male to have the baby, maybe it's the ritual that's important and not who she sleeps with. It might kill the grey warden but possibly the essence still flows to the baby.
Speculation is so much fun
Modifié par Focaccia, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:31 .
#32
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 09:13
SusanStoHelit
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Focaccia wrote...
No, it's a common theme in ancient tales; I know of several just in the Celtic ones. Body stealers can survive when their body dies, even if they don't have a new one to jump to. That's why body stealers are always mages or have some kind of 'magical' power. Bodies linked to them by blood are usually easier to steal, so are mage bodies. Both is best. Often, body stealers hide part of themselves (their heart, for instance) somewhere else: in a box, in another creature, in an egg, or whatever. You can't permanently kill them until you find the heart/hidden part of them and kill it.
Not true, I think. Shape shifting is known through stories. One of my characters, the mage or the Dalish, I can't remember which, had heard tales of them. And besides, Morrigan can shape shift and isn't an abomination.
If Morrigan was the lover of your pc, even if you don't do the ritual, she could still have gotten pregnant. You'd been sleeping together for over a year. In this case, it will be a normal baby, but possibly tainted. The reason only you or Alistair/Loghain are acceptable is that you haven't been Wardens long enough for the taint to have done too much to alter you yet. So conception is still possible. So, either an old god baby or a regular baby.
For it to be an old god baby, the father must be a Warden, must be a recent Warden, and must be nearby when the Archdemon dies. The Archdemon's soul (the Old God) goes to the nearest tainted body. With no grey warden nearby that will be a darkspawn. It has no soul, Archdemon is 'reborn'. If a grey warden strikes the blow, they're closest, they have a soul, kaboom.
The ritual, as far as I can tell, may have several purposes: to ensure conception, to prepare the conceptus to accept the Old God, to ensure that the Archdemon goes to that 'body' even if others who are tainted are nearer. I think the third is absolutely certain, Morrigan even says that the child will 'act as a beacon', or words to that effect.
Do you still get the pregnant message, if you don't do the ritual and you were never her lover? In that case, your Chasind idea could be true, but it would still be a normal baby, not an old god one.
I thought flemeth was dead, and it's now just the "demon" that's alive and pretending to be a human witch.
No, it's a common theme in ancient tales; I know of several just in the Celtic ones. Body stealers can survive when their body dies, even if they don't have a new one to jump to. That's why body stealers are always mages or have some kind of 'magical' power. Bodies linked to them by blood are usually easier to steal, so are mage bodies. Both is best. Often, body stealers hide part of themselves (their heart, for instance) somewhere else: in a box, in another creature, in an egg, or whatever. You can't permanently kill them until you find the heart/hidden part of them and kill it.
I think flemeth never originally had shape shifting capabilities, i believe it was the demon's power or rather somehow the "demon" assimilated the wilds into her and made it possible for her to shapeshift.
Not true, I think. Shape shifting is known through stories. One of my characters, the mage or the Dalish, I can't remember which, had heard tales of them. And besides, Morrigan can shape shift and isn't an abomination.
Maybe when you refuse morrigon she goes of and get a chasind male to have the baby, maybe it's the ritual that's important and not who she sleeps with. It might kill the grey warden but possibly the essence still flows to the baby.
If Morrigan was the lover of your pc, even if you don't do the ritual, she could still have gotten pregnant. You'd been sleeping together for over a year. In this case, it will be a normal baby, but possibly tainted. The reason only you or Alistair/Loghain are acceptable is that you haven't been Wardens long enough for the taint to have done too much to alter you yet. So conception is still possible. So, either an old god baby or a regular baby.
For it to be an old god baby, the father must be a Warden, must be a recent Warden, and must be nearby when the Archdemon dies. The Archdemon's soul (the Old God) goes to the nearest tainted body. With no grey warden nearby that will be a darkspawn. It has no soul, Archdemon is 'reborn'. If a grey warden strikes the blow, they're closest, they have a soul, kaboom.
The ritual, as far as I can tell, may have several purposes: to ensure conception, to prepare the conceptus to accept the Old God, to ensure that the Archdemon goes to that 'body' even if others who are tainted are nearer. I think the third is absolutely certain, Morrigan even says that the child will 'act as a beacon', or words to that effect.
Do you still get the pregnant message, if you don't do the ritual and you were never her lover? In that case, your Chasind idea could be true, but it would still be a normal baby, not an old god one.
#33
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 11:33
Focaccia
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SusanStoHelit wrote...
No, it's a common theme in ancient tales; I know of several just in the Celtic ones. Body stealers can survive when their body dies, even if they don't have a new one to jump to. That's why body stealers are always mages or have some kind of 'magical' power. Bodies linked to them by blood are usually easier to steal, so are mage bodies. Both is best. Often, body stealers hide part of themselves (their heart, for instance) somewhere else: in a box, in another creature, in an egg, or whatever. You can't permanently kill them until you find the heart/hidden part of them and kill it.
Not true, I think. Shape shifting is known through stories. One of my characters, the mage or the Dalish, I can't remember which, had heard tales of them. And besides, Morrigan can shape shift and isn't an abomination.
I meant that the original Flemeth who was the girl from highever was not a body stealer nor a shape shifter. If she was a shape shifter she would have changed and killed the noble's guards instead of summoning the demon. The demon assimilated her and took over, so technically she is dead. The girl from highever is no more only the "demon" who is a body stealer.
The tales is heard bcos "flemeth" has lived for many centuries. That why she is consodered a legend, but i doubt she is human anymore. Human body yes but not human soul.
Thats what i think anyway
, so many theories to ponder, such fun
#34
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 12:18
blademaster7
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If you never sleep with her you don't get the pregnant message. She ends up in Orlais in the empress court.SusanStoHelit wrote...
Do you still get the pregnant message, if you don't do the ritual and you were never her lover? In that case, your Chasind idea could be true, but it would still be a normal baby, not an old god one.
Once you get in that tent of hers, however, she'll end up pregnant no matter what. Without the ritual the child is probably untainted. If you go ahead and kill the Archdemon you'll die. That means that the essence of the Archdemon got destroyed and wasn't lured into the baby.
It's kind of interesting how she was already knocked up and had no idea about it. I'd like to see the look in her face when she starts having symptoms
#35
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 05:45
Focaccia
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What pregnant message are you guys talking about?
#36
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 07:47
blademaster7
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Scenario 1 -Focaccia wrote...
What pregnant message are you guys talking about?
-Ritual accepted
-Morrigan is pregnant in the epilogue.
-The Warden who kills the Archdemon lives.
Scenario 2 -
-Male warden sleeps with her in camp
-Ritual refused
-Morrigan is pregnant
-The Warden who kills the Archdemon dies
#37
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 08:00
Thor Rand Al
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blademaster7 wrote...
If you never sleep with her you don't get the pregnant message. She ends up in Orlais in the empress court.SusanStoHelit wrote...
Do you still get the pregnant message, if you don't do the ritual and you were never her lover? In that case, your Chasind idea could be true, but it would still be a normal baby, not an old god one.
Once you get in that tent of hers, however, she'll end up pregnant no matter what. Without the ritual the child is probably untainted. If you go ahead and kill the Archdemon you'll die. That means that the essence of the Archdemon got destroyed and wasn't lured into the baby.
It's kind of interesting how she was already knocked up and had no idea about it. I'd like to see the look in her face when she starts having symptoms
Ya she'll be cursing herself when she realizes it a lil too late... That would be hilarious to see... Welp Morrigan you got your baby just not the way you wanted it lmao
#38
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 08:12
DJ0000
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Clumber wrote...
The child is the 5th old god, which I guess didn't truly die because its spirit was transferred to the child and the taint was removed. If the child were to become another archdemon, there would still be the other 2 old gods waiting in the Deep Roads to be tainted. The 5th Old God was never actually killed, its spirit just changed bodies.
Exactly, so Morrigans child would be the 5th Archdemon returning, not the sixth.
#39
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 08:31
Focaccia
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The thing with this 5th god theory is that if bioware is going to make a sequel or something ,it does not seem possible with this theory. They will need to make two different branches of the storyline. One being 5th old god is the child the other being 5th old god is dead.
It feels highly inlikely they'll do that. Maybe there is another "truth" to this archdemon slaying thing.
It feels highly inlikely they'll do that. Maybe there is another "truth" to this archdemon slaying thing.
#40
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 08:32
SusanStoHelit
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Focaccia wrote...
I meant that the original Flemeth who was the girl from highever was not a body stealer nor a shape shifter. If she was a shape shifter she would have changed and killed the noble's guards instead of summoning the demon. The demon assimilated her and took over, so technically she is dead. The girl from highever is no more only the "demon" who is a body stealer.
The tales is heard bcos "flemeth" has lived for many centuries. That why she is consodered a legend, but i doubt she is human anymore. Human body yes but not human soul.
Thats what i think anyway
I still don't think so - but I could be wrong. I various reasons for thinking so, some of them are rather difficult to elucidate, and others would require that it be later in the morning (I'm just sucking down my first wake-up coffee) and for me to look up the actual tale to make sure I got the details right.
But a couple of the obvious, surface ones are:
Look at Sophia Dryden possessed by a demon, both her appearance and her actions. Crystal clear, right? Now look at Connor - recent enough that there's no physical changes yet, but his actions speak volumes. Now Uldred - no change to appearance yet, but again his actions are clear. Compare them to Flemeth. Her behaviour is that of a woman not a demon; not a kind, loving, gentle woman it's true. But still a woman. So I think it's Flemeth who is in control, who is riding the demon, rather than it being the demon riding her.
Another is the voice. Ingame - all demon possessed individuals have an echoing voice, you hear, in effect, two voices when they speak. Flemeth doesn't have that. At least by ingame mechanics, she shouldn't be a demon.
#41
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 08:39
Focaccia
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Ahh it's true that all those possesed by demons were not human looking and sounding, but nobody could ascertain what flemeth actually summoned. It could be a normal demon of the fade or could have been a totally different being that they just labelled a "demon"(for the mystery sake).For sophia dryden she is dead and her body is kinda decompsing which is why she looks like that. Flemeth's demon or flemeth herself jumps bodies so she does not have a decaying body.Probably all those that were possesed were done so by smaller demons. Maybe flemeth called the big boss.
